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Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Actually Tau do need the riptide because guess what it allows us to deal with blobs of marines and terminators without having to rely on battle suits.
People want to constantly complain about tau but don't bother to realize hey maybe if I knock out his marker lights or maybe if I land my drop pod 1" away from his units he won't risk intercepting due to the risk of hitting his own units.

There it is!

The "git gud" argument.

I'm sure NO ONE has EVER thought to shoot at the markerlights or use drop pods! NO ONE EVER! What a fething revelation!

Can you teach us more, oh master of strategy.

Actually no its called common sense. Drop your pods right in front of their unit remember interceptor is at the end of the movement phase so even if you scatter say 5" off target you still have your regular movement to get within 1" of their units and I can bet you most Tau players won't intercept those units.

Martel again I'm sorry am I supposed to feel sorry for you after what I had to out up with ba doing as a chaos player

This is all incredibly obvious stuff that EVERY player has figured out, but between supporting fire making assaulting them a joke unless you funnel unit after unit into them, very good shooting, interceptor out the ass, and JSJ, armies like Orks are basically an autowin for tau, BA are basically an autowin too, as having below average shooting, only having a VERY poor way to assault from reserves, and no good assault transport makes it hard them to bring any of their possible strength against the Tau (especially since something like DC will obviously never make it to assault range in the same turn they can charge without being shot to pieces).


And tau don't especially need the riptide. What does it really bring? Massive damage output? Not unless it's in a riptide wing. Mobility? Yeah, right. Stupidly huge durability? Yes. It effectively locks down an entire section of the board by providing enough of a threat that it can't really be ignored, but is also more than durable enough to not care about being shot too much.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Actually Tau do need the riptide because guess what it allows us to deal with blobs of marines and terminators without having to rely on battle
People want to constantly complain about tau but don't bother to realize hey maybe if I knock out his marker lights or maybe if I land my drop pod 1" away from his units he won't risk intercepting due to the risk of hitting his own units.

Sigh.
No, it is not "necessary". I can counter Marines and Terminators just fine without it, because I am competent and know how to use the units in the codex properly.
Yes, I know how to counter Tau. I do it routinely when I play against them, and I deal with others' counters when people play against me. Any army can counter Terminators and Marines. If you cannot use all of the tools that Tau provide, and just spam Riptides instead, you will fail in the long run.

Martel732 wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Actually Tau do need the riptide because guess what it allows us to deal with blobs of marines and terminators without having to rely on battle suits.
People want to constantly complain about tau but don't bother to realize hey maybe if I knock out his marker lights or maybe if I land my drop pod 1" away from his units he won't risk intercepting due to the risk of hitting his own units.

There it is!

The "git gud" argument.

I'm sure NO ONE has EVER thought to shoot at the markerlights or use drop pods! NO ONE EVER! What a fething revelation!

Can you teach us more, oh master of strategy.

Actually no its called common sense. Drop your pods right in front of their unit remember interceptor is at the end of the movement phase so even if you scatter say 5" off target you still have your regular movement to get within 1" of their units and I can bet you most Tau players won't intercept those units.

Martel again I'm sorry am I supposed to feel sorry for you after what I had to out up with ba doing as a chaos player

Vanilla marines have to build deathstars with invis or spam bodies like orks with gladius to keep up with Tau. Those are the defining differences between vanilla and BA in this case. But tell me again why the Riptide needs to be able to suck down 50 lascannon shots.

In what world do you need 50 lascannon shots to kill a riptide? Because funnily enough mine dies to Ork mech gunz lulz
Now maybe it is under priced but not by much but you lot want to completely Nerf it and reduce it to a expensive paper weight

I can counter marines and terminators with goddamn BA. The Riptide is not necessary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"In what world do you need 50 lascannon shots to kill a riptide?"

The world where math works. I might have overshot by a bit. But only a bit.

I don't care if it's unnerfed. But currently, it's a 300 pt model. Just like a scatbike is more like a 35-40 pt model. And the WK is a 450 pt model.

 Verviedi wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Actually Tau do need the riptide because guess what it allows us to deal with blobs of marines and terminators without having to rely on battle
People want to constantly complain about tau but don't bother to realize hey maybe if I knock out his marker lights or maybe if I land my drop pod 1" away from his units he won't risk intercepting due to the risk of hitting his own units.

Sigh.
No, it is not "necessary". I can counter Marines and Terminators just fine without it, because I am competent and know how to use the units in the codex properly.
Yes, I know how to counter Tau. I do it routinely when I play against them, and I deal with others' counters when people play against me. Any army can counter Terminators and Marines. If you cannot use all of the tools that Tau provide, and just spam Riptides instead, you will fail in the long run.

I don't rely on my riptide at all and actually only from eld one if anything I rely on my fire warriors +ethereal who jumped out of their fishes and blow people's faces off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
I can counter marines and terminators with goddamn BA. The Riptide is not necessary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"In what world do you need 50 lascannon shots to kill a riptide?"

The world where math works. I might have overshot by a bit. But only a bit.

I don't care if it's unnerfed. But currently, it's a 300 pt model. Just like a scatbike is more like a 35-40 pt model. And the WK is a 450 pt model.

300 points don't make me bloody laugh martel stop crying if you don't like it why don't you just quit the gane

My bad. It's 40 BS 4 lascannon shots. So sorry. Or 40 BS 4 melta shots. You know what even 20 melta shots does to a Warhound?

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

In what world do you need 50 lascannon shots to kill a riptide? Because funnily enough mine dies to Ork mech gunz lulz
Now maybe it is under priced but not by much but you lot want to completely Nerf it and reduce it to a expensive paper weight

Do the math. Against a 3++ Riptide, it take somewhere ~50 lascannons at BS3.

50 shots, 25 hits, 21 wound, 7 go through the invuln, and if you have FnP, you'd stop another 2, leaving 5 unsaved wounds, give or take 1 depending on rounding.

Martel732 wrote:
I can counter marines and terminators with goddamn BA. The Riptide is not necessary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"In what world do you need 50 lascannon shots to kill a riptide?"

The world where math works. I might have overshot by a bit. But only a bit.

I don't care if it's unnerfed. But currently, it's a 300 pt model. Just like a scatbike is more like a 35-40 pt model. And the WK is a 450 pt model.

Overshot by like, 1.5 lascannons if the riptide has a 3++. (24 if it only has a 5++). That's assuming BS4 btw

edit: nevermind gave the riptide an extra wound

Or 40 BS 4 shots since I'm BA. 50 shots for IG without bring it down.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

300 points don't make me bloody laugh martel stop crying if you don't like it why don't you just quit the gane

Stop gak posting. If you don't like it, quit the forums.

Pretty sure 40 BS 4 lascannon shots takes out a Warhound too, because of explodes results. The fact that we even are having this conversation is vomit inducing.

Meanwhile, my dreads die to scatterlasers like little bitches and lose the Riptide in CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"300 points don't make me bloody laugh martel stop crying if you don't like it why don't you just quit the gane"

Tell you what. I'll make a tau list paying 300 pts for riptides and still crush your standard marine list. 300 pts is completely fair for an immortal model. The Riptide is functionally immortal because any reasonable amount of fire that one might bring to bear is completely wasted against it. It's a complete trap for newer players and a big reason that Tau are THE baby seal clubbing list. Immortality should be expensive. Don't like that? Don't be immortal.

Actually funnily enough my csm have a answered to the riptide its called don't half your damn points into one unit. You act like nova charge is reliable it really isn't and quite frankly bringing fnp IMO makes the riptide too much of a major part of the list.
Again martel you really need to stop crying you remind me of a guard player I played against with my nurgle csm earlier this year who cried too at my Nurgle marines. I suggest you quit the game tbh

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Actually funnily enough my csm have a answered to the riptide its called don't half your damn points into one unit. You act like nova charge is reliable it really isn't and quite frankly bringing fnp IMO makes the riptide too much of a major part of the list.
Again martel you really need to stop crying you remind me of a guard player I played against with my nurgle csm earlier this year who cried too at my Nurgle marines. I suggest you quit the game tbh

Given the pricetag on the Riptide, nova charge is plenty reliable. And there's this thing called Riptide wing...

Quit acting like the stim injector is some major sacrifice of points on a T6 W5 2+/ 3++model.

I run pure MSU BA with bare minimum upgrades. Tau still have plenty of shooting to butcher my lists. Csm have some recent new toys that help that put them far above BA.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Actually funnily enough my csm have a answered to the riptide its called don't half your damn points into one unit. You act like nova charge is reliable it really isn't and quite frankly bringing fnp IMO makes the riptide too much of a major part of the list.
Again martel you really need to stop crying you remind me of a guard player I played against with my nurgle csm earlier this year who cried too at my Nurgle marines. I suggest you quit the game tbh

How many points are you playing? 225 is basically nothing in 1500+

Aah, i miss when this thread was making a parody of certain frequent participants in threads who sometimes had valid points, but communicated them so poorly that no one listened. Or he had terrible ideas, easy to point out, but couldn't take the criticism.

Do you remember those days? Pepperidge Farms remembers

 Wolfblade wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Actually funnily enough my csm have a answered to the riptide its called don't half your damn points into one unit. You act like nova charge is reliable it really isn't and quite frankly bringing fnp IMO makes the riptide too much of a major part of the list.
Again martel you really need to stop crying you remind me of a guard player I played against with my nurgle csm earlier this year who cried too at my Nurgle marines. I suggest you quit the game tbh

How many points are you playing? 225 is basically nothing in 1500+

1500 but I'm also running a full hunter contingent with 2 big squads of fire warriors in a devil fish each + 1 mini squad a crisis team some path finders a pirhana a broad side 5 marker drones a ethereal a body guard suit

 pumaman1 wrote:
Aah, i miss when this thread was making a parody of certain frequent participants in threads who sometimes had valid points, but communicated them so poorly that no one listened. Or he had terrible ideas, easy to point out, but couldn't take the criticism.

Do you remember those days? Pepperidge Farms remembers

No, its okay, Champion has gladly taken up the torch for Traditio.

Both equally misguided in understanding obvious and basic aspects of balance and gameplay.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Actually funnily enough my csm have a answered to the riptide its called don't half your damn points into one unit. You act like nova charge is reliable it really isn't and quite frankly bringing fnp IMO makes the riptide too much of a major part of the list.
Again martel you really need to stop crying you remind me of a guard player I played against with my nurgle csm earlier this year who cried too at my Nurgle marines. I suggest you quit the game tbh

How many points are you playing? 225 is basically nothing in 1500+

1500 but I'm also running a full hunter contingent with 2 big squads of fire warriors in a devil fish each + 1 mini squad a crisis team some path finders a pirhana a broad side 5 marker drones a ethereal a body guard suit

So yeah, 225 points is basically nothing in 1500. And you could probably save points by using a regular crisis squad instead of a bodyguard squad.

I'm not asking for 3rd ed BA rhino rush here. I'm really pointing how absurd the swing between vanilla marines and BA is based off of two or three formations and a psychic tree. Vanilla marine units taken individually are every bit as terrible as BA units. They get a few extra non-relentless grav cannons. Yippee.

 Wolfblade wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Actually funnily enough my csm have a answered to the riptide its called don't half your damn points into one unit. You act like nova charge is reliable it really isn't and quite frankly bringing fnp IMO makes the riptide too much of a major part of the list.
Again martel you really need to stop crying you remind me of a guard player I played against with my nurgle csm earlier this year who cried too at my Nurgle marines. I suggest you quit the game tbh

How many points are you playing? 225 is basically nothing in 1500+

1500 but I'm also running a full hunter contingent with 2 big squads of fire warriors in a devil fish each + 1 mini squad a crisis team some path finders a pirhana a broad side 5 marker drones a ethereal a body guard suit

So yeah, 225 points is basically nothing in 1500. And you could probably save points by using a regular crisis squad instead of a bodyguard squad.

The body guard squad I have to take to get the ethereal into the hunter contingent.
@martel but then why complain at Tau? Are Tau players to blame for you having a garbage codex? Nope and I'm not being funny but while yes your formations suck you do now have access to grav cannons on your Devastator's.

Because unlike Necrons or Dark Angels or even Eldar to a certain extent, I don't get to play a game at all against Tau. No matter what I do, the result is the same. Can't deep strike. Can't advance. Anything that does make into CC is no longer viable. Just lambs to the slaughter.

But dont forget, the Riptide cannot be OP because Tacticals with Missile Launchers can kill it!

 master of ordinance wrote:
But dont forget, the Riptide cannot be OP because Tacticals with Missile Launchers can kill it!

Except they can't.

 master of ordinance wrote:
But dont forget, the Riptide cannot be OP because Tacticals with Missile Launchers can kill it!

That's what I'm saying.

Martel then maybe shoot them Tau do not like being shot and unless your opponent has either got a ethereal in the list or paid for sergants or got lucky on his warlord trait most of his army is LD 8 at best with the exceptions of the commanders unit and the riptides. Heck use damn osykers against them because Tau have next to no psychic defence

25 point astropath op because psychic shriek can possibly cause 7 wounds on a riptide. GW pls nerf

Again, every player who has been playing for more than six months knows this. Blood Angels cannot outshoot Tau. Blood Angels cannot use psyker spam to kill Tau. All Blood Angels can do is assault poorly. At least understand Martel's grievances before you start outputting condescending crap.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Martel then maybe shoot them Tau do not like being shot and unless your opponent has either got a ethereal in the list or paid for sergants or got lucky on his warlord trait most of his army is LD 8 at best with the exceptions of the commanders unit and the riptides. Heck use damn osykers against them because Tau have next to no psychic defence

I don't list tailor and ba psykers are basically useless vs tau.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Martel then maybe shoot them Tau do not like being shot and unless your opponent has either got a ethereal in the list or paid for sergants or got lucky on his warlord trait most of his army is LD 8 at best with the exceptions of the commanders unit and the riptides. Heck use damn osykers against them because Tau have next to no psychic defence

Yeah, out shoot the shooty army, good luck. I don't even think they can spam psykers as they don't have access to the libby conclave.

They don't, but even if they did, how would you use that?