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Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
And why should I care about his grirvences when its because of people like him crying that csm got one of their only 2 good units nerfed into oblivion. So sorry but I ain't sorry
PS I'd love to see all imperial codeces down to the level of csm before traitor legions

Your army literally got buffed into competitiveness, still not good enough for you. Gotta drag other people down, too.

If anyone wonders why Chaos players are disliked, this right here.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:

 Wolfblade wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Martel then maybe shoot them Tau do not like being shot and unless your opponent has either got a ethereal in the list or paid for sergants or got lucky on his warlord trait most of his army is LD 8 at best with the exceptions of the commanders unit and the riptides. Heck use damn osykers against them because Tau have next to no psychic defence

Yeah, out shoot the shooty army, good luck. I don't even think they can spam psykers as they don't have access to the libby conclave.

So ally in a Conclave? Why whine and cry when we have the ability to easily fix literally any problem in an IoM force?

Because people don't play IoM. They play BA or SW or IG or SoB. If you're going to insist on allying in solutions to every issue we may as well just pick one codex for everyone to play.

Didn't you just do that by complaining about no Conclave for BA?

Show me where I complain about no Conclave.

A few pages late. Oops.

 Crazyterran wrote:
If anyone wonders why Chaos players are disliked, this right here.

?That is painting with a rather broad brush!
It is a strange thing playing chaos, it is like GW's marketing department is entrenched in the codex making.
I DO see some good buffs in the new Codex but when they say for many of the formations "If the model can take a mark they must have one of X".
So now do I use blue-tac for all right shoulder pads or glue / decal on a mark and commit my masses to a given god?
It is almost as bad as the 50 flavors of the good old space marines!
BUT yes, we have been getting some good model love unlike the Sisters and Imperial Guard keep getting the odd new kit so it is all good (kinda).

Chaos has always looked awesome to me, for competitive playability your really have to sharpen your pencil and I keep thinking it should not be that hard.
They are supposed to be the biggest bad in the game... it would be nice for them to act that way.

But I am a gaming slut so I have many armies to go around... Imperial hordes are a favorite but I always liked my Chaos to thump them every once in a while to keep it fun.

 Crazyterran wrote:


If anyone wonders why Chaos players are disliked, this right here.

Nah, more often than not the CSM players complains are (were?) justified and many people that "disliked" them were just people not able to see or accept the obvious incoherence in the treatment from GW's part between Loyalists and Traitors.

I can think about a couple of posters like that.

Not to justify that dude's behaviour, but is better do not write this kind of comment, is dangerously generic, IMHO.

To me its a bad idea in general to generalize an army or its player base. I can't count the number of times I've seen SM players described as WAAC Scumbags who don't want any other army to ever get buffed or updated, or as Mary Sues. To generalize is just outright insulting as 9 times out of 10 the claim is just outright wrong, but that doesn't stop some people...

 BBAP wrote:

 General Annoyance wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 BBAP wrote:
Astroglide Militarium

This is the best name ever.

I prefer Astroturf Military

Would make sense with all the green colour palettes going around in the Guard...

I don't think anyone uses **that** name for them except GW. It's always Astroglide Millitarium, Astral Vomitarum, Astrid Milligan, Ass-tar Milipede, or sometimes even "the Imperial Guard".

 Peregrine wrote:
Five real guys, how can an army that has this model in it be anything but OP OP OP CHEEEEESE? Just by owning one you become a sex god with lustful followers that Slaanesh would envy, and imagine what happens when you put one on the table!

My stalkers wreck it after it's bomb scatters max distance into one of it's own units and gives me a free slay the warlord kill? (This actually happened to me)

 War Kitten wrote:
To me its a bad idea in general to generalize an army or its player base. I can't count the number of times I've seen SM players described as WAAC Scumbags who don't want any other army to ever get buffed or updated, or as Mary Sues. To generalize is just outright insulting as 9 times out of 10 the claim is just outright wrong, but that doesn't stop some people...

I agree, I take a lot of flakk sometimes in my group for running non-traditional lists in both my Eldar and SM forces. What can I say, I like Dreadnoughts, I'm going to run them, no matter how bad they are.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
And why should I care about his grirvences when its because of people like him crying that csm got one of their only 2 good units nerfed into oblivion. So sorry but I ain't sorry
PS I'd love to see all imperial codeces down to the level of csm before traitor legions

Two words:
Imperial. Guard.
We where about equal with CSM, and then you got buffed.

 Peregrine wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Everyone's arguments about the durability of the Riptide are a little bit misguided, considering in many situations there are better uses of the Nova reactor than a better invuln.

This would be a valid argument if nova charging the weapon actually mattered. If the ion weapon was STR 8 AP 4 and only got AP 2 with the nova charge then there would be a reason to do it, but giving it AP 2 by default makes the nova version redundant. The vast majority of the time you nova charge for the 3++.

Or make the nova charge more dangerous, like a 4+

" If the ion weapon was STR 8 AP 4 "

Even AP3 would give all the expensive 2+ infantry a break.

 TheLumberJack wrote:
Or make the nova charge more dangerous, like a 4+

I threw out an idea where an overloading Nova Reactor caused consequential systems damage.

1-2: Defensive systems destroyed --> Riptide loses Invul saves
3-4: Targeting systems destroyed --> Riptide may only fire snap shots
5-6: Propulsion systems destroyed --> Riptide loses Jetpack type, becomes Infantry type.

I thought it was cool at least!

I think having more things to keep track of is probably undesirable.

Yoyoyo wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:
Or make the nova charge more dangerous, like a 4+

I threw out an idea where an overloading Nova Reactor caused consequential systems damage.

1-2: Defensive systems destroyed --> Riptide loses Invul saves
3-4: Targeting systems destroyed --> Riptide may only fire snap shots
5-6: Propulsion systems destroyed --> Riptide loses Jetpack type, becomes Infantry type.

I thought it was cool at least!

While a good idea, maybe lessen it a bit. A bad turn could make your riptide utterly useless. Maybe do 1-2: Lose invul save that turn, 3-4: Snap fire that turn, 5-6: Lose jetpack that turn. And then also if you fail you lose a wound. But something needs to happen to make nova charging more dangerous, or make picking something other than the shield more desirable

Yeah something like that. Either way, it's the risk vs. reward thing.

Maybe make Nova increasingly dangerous.. 3+, 4+, 5+, maxing out at 6+.

I'm sure a creative person could figure it out.

Make NOVA charge every other turn, and take away the roll.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
And why should I care about his grirvences when its because of people like him crying that csm got one of their only 2 good units nerfed into oblivion. So sorry but I ain't sorry
PS I'd love to see all imperial codeces down to the level of csm before traitor legions

Two words:
Imperial. Guard.
We where about equal with CSM, and then you got buffed.

Where they? I thought they were above Orks but below CSM?

Regardless, IG needs a buff too, same with Orks.

I hope those factions to get a bump, even though that will put BA firmly at the bottom of the cellar. Loyalist marines with nothing that makes loyalist marines work.

Ignore this posting. I meant to write something for another thread.

I dunno why you would think that CSM being buffed means that we don't want others being brought up.

Nobody is saying balance doesn't matter, just that you have no idea what balance is in regards to game design.

The game needs counters, otherwise there is no reason for certain units to exist. There being imbalance to allow for more strategic choice is only a bad thing when someone refuses to adjust play style to accommodate the fact that the game requires two people to play.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Nobody is saying balance doesn't matter, just that you have no idea what balance is in regards to game design.

The game needs counters, otherwise there is no reason for certain units to exist. There being imbalance to allow for more strategic choice is only a bad thing when someone refuses to adjust play style to accommodate the fact that the game requires two people to play.

Having counters to units is NOT the same as imbalance. Imbalance leads to spamming optimal units. Ie, imbalance removes counters, it does not provide them.

Yoyoyo wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:
Or make the nova charge more dangerous, like a 4+

I threw out an idea where an overloading Nova Reactor caused consequential systems damage.

1-2: Defensive systems destroyed --> Riptide loses Invul saves
3-4: Targeting systems destroyed --> Riptide may only fire snap shots
5-6: Propulsion systems destroyed --> Riptide loses Jetpack type, becomes Infantry type.

I thought it was cool at least!

Because riptide wings exist, it seems that the riptide is only complained about as it exists in the riptide wing, and something like this might be ok if the core unit was that powerful. Unfortunately, it only drives people to use them EXCLUSIVELY in the riptide wing, to reduce the 1/3 chance of that happening every turn. A riptide alone is hardly the level often complained about. Still overly good, I agree. But this actually emphasizes the problem, you will only see riptide wing, the blatantly most OP thing, or none. And lets face it, Just means you'll see more of it, instead of someone running just 1 or 2 as actual elite choices.

2 base riptides is still around 55-65 BS4 lascannons to take out, even accounting for failed nova charges. That means it's also 11-13 grav cannons. You know, the weapon that all the xenos lose their minds over.

Martel732 wrote:
2 base riptides is still around 55-65 BS4 lascannons to take out, even accounting for failed nova charges. That means it's also 11-13 grav cannons. You know, the weapon that all the xenos lose their minds over.

But did we not just take it from 52 las cannons PER to just over 52 for both? Like i said, its too good, but that nerf just forces me to bring a riptide wing, something I'd rather not personally. I don't enjoy hyper-competitive tournament play on my FLGS Friday night 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd bring vespid's if i could find them for less than a kidney

 pumaman1 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
2 base riptides is still around 55-65 BS4 lascannons to take out, even accounting for failed nova charges. That means it's also 11-13 grav cannons. You know, the weapon that all the xenos lose their minds over.

But did we not just take it from 52 las cannons PER to just over 52 for both? Like i said, its too good, but that nerf just forces me to bring a riptide wing, something I'd rather not personally. I don't enjoy hyper-competitive tournament play on my FLGS Friday night 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd bring vespid's if i could find them for less than a kidney

Why does it force you to bring the wing?

 pumaman1 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
2 base riptides is still around 55-65 BS4 lascannons to take out, even accounting for failed nova charges. That means it's also 11-13 grav cannons. You know, the weapon that all the xenos lose their minds over.

But did we not just take it from 52 las cannons PER to just over 52 for both? Like i said, its too good, but that nerf just forces me to bring a riptide wing, something I'd rather not personally. I don't enjoy hyper-competitive tournament play on my FLGS Friday night 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd bring vespid's if i could find them for less than a kidney

52 was BS 3 lascannon assuming NOVA shield all the time. It's still an absurd amount of AP2 that most lists can't even begin to field.

pm713 wrote:

 pumaman1 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
2 base riptides is still around 55-65 BS4 lascannons to take out, even accounting for failed nova charges. That means it's also 11-13 grav cannons. You know, the weapon that all the xenos lose their minds over.

But did we not just take it from 52 las cannons PER to just over 52 for both? Like i said, its too good, but that nerf just forces me to bring a riptide wing, something I'd rather not personally. I don't enjoy hyper-competitive tournament play on my FLGS Friday night 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd bring vespid's if i could find them for less than a kidney

Why does it force you to bring the wing?

Because the wing mitigates the risk of the proposed penalty for nova failure to well (re-roll failed nova). If i have a 1/3 chance of permanently being downgraded to bs1, or losing the invul altogether, or losing JSJ, then it's a never take, because you need those nova rolls to be worth while. so 33% chance of permanent nerf or 11% and take 1 more unit generally considered too good. OK yeah, i like using my units as intended, so I'll bring the 11% wombo-combo.

 pumaman1 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 pumaman1 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
2 base riptides is still around 55-65 BS4 lascannons to take out, even accounting for failed nova charges. That means it's also 11-13 grav cannons. You know, the weapon that all the xenos lose their minds over.

But did we not just take it from 52 las cannons PER to just over 52 for both? Like i said, its too good, but that nerf just forces me to bring a riptide wing, something I'd rather not personally. I don't enjoy hyper-competitive tournament play on my FLGS Friday night 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd bring vespid's if i could find them for less than a kidney

Why does it force you to bring the wing?

Because the wing mitigates the risk of the proposed penalty for nova failure to well (re-roll failed nova). If i have a 1/3 chance of permanently being downgraded to bs1, or losing the invul altogether, or losing JSJ, then it's a never take, because you need those nova rolls to be worth while. so 33% chance of permanent nerf or 11% and take 1 more unit generally considered too good. OK yeah, i like using my units as intended, so I'll bring the 11% wombo-combo.

Or you could just take the risk like other factions have to.

Martel732 wrote:

 pumaman1 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
2 base riptides is still around 55-65 BS4 lascannons to take out, even accounting for failed nova charges. That means it's also 11-13 grav cannons. You know, the weapon that all the xenos lose their minds over.

But did we not just take it from 52 las cannons PER to just over 52 for both? Like i said, its too good, but that nerf just forces me to bring a riptide wing, something I'd rather not personally. I don't enjoy hyper-competitive tournament play on my FLGS Friday night 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd bring vespid's if i could find them for less than a kidney

52 was BS 3 lascannon assuming NOVA shield all the time. It's still an absurd amount of AP2 that most lists can't even begin to field.

I didn't debate that part, I agreed they are too good at codex: Riptide, but 2 base riptides taking 26-33 each to kill out of wing, versus 52 in wing(and 63-100% improvement) why make a penalty that strong arms me into the formation?