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2016/12/12 21:34:58
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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Gunzhard wrote:
I still don't see that being clarified here... what am I missing?
"The rules in this eBook are also available in Codex: Imperial Agents, fully revised and updated along with new detachments plus rules for adding even more servants of the Emperor to your army."
That part.
oldzoggy wrote:Table wrote:
The "old codex" will be valid until GW stops selling it. Now none of this matters outside of tournaments and PuG's. Talk it out with your opponent.
Well it kinda does. Since any Inquisitor army is mainly using the old inq henchmen squad. This is 75%+ of their army and is missing in the new book.
The new henchman formation seems to fill the gap until closer inspection reveals that most normal builds are now impossible, or would result in you rolling 10+ times on the warlord trait table :\
Players might feel cheated when your entire army consist of a single disputed unit entry.
"disputed" ? The only thing missing here are the pages for the actual component units, mainly the Acolytes. How it works is pretty much undisputed by now, isn't it?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/12 21:41:58
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2016/12/12 21:44:17
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Hallowed Canoness
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The only difference for SoB are whether or not Celestine is available. If someone gives me a hard time for fielding Celestine I am going to hate them very very much and not play with them (and possibly kill them dead when they are not looking?).
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"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 |
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2016/12/12 21:46:40
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:The only difference for SoB are whether or not Celestine is available. If someone gives me a hard time for fielding Celestine I am going to hate them very very much and not play with them (and possibly kill them dead when they are not looking?).
Or send them a sandwich with US cheese.
Personally I'd allow any Sisters player to just use the old Celestine rules, no big deal to me. It's not really that different to fielding 6th edition forgeworld stuff and most people are fine with that, too - as long as there aren't newer rules, use the old ones.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/12 21:46:55
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2016/12/12 22:00:30
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought
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nekooni wrote: Gunzhard wrote:
I still don't see that being clarified here... what am I missing?
"The rules in this eBook are also available in Codex: Imperial Agents, fully revised and updated along with new detachments plus rules for adding even more servants of the Emperor to your army."
That part.
If that is taken at face value, then, GK and DW ARE indeed replaced by the new book. That statement is a throw-away I'm afraid.
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2016/12/12 22:00:56
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yeah its going to be the same as all the daemon / chaos players. We will just pick the stuff we like out of book A and combine it with book B. A happens to be our own obscure digital book that is still for sale and B is the new allies for everyone book. Together they make a perfect army. Look at it they really do. Just only using the new book, makes all of the armies in the book kinda silly since all the entries in there are focussed at being used as allies.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/12 22:02:41
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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2016/12/12 22:13:16
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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Gunzhard wrote:nekooni wrote: Gunzhard wrote:
I still don't see that being clarified here... what am I missing?
"The rules in this eBook are also available in Codex: Imperial Agents, fully revised and updated along with new detachments plus rules for adding even more servants of the Emperor to your army."
That part.
If that is taken at face value, then, GK and DW ARE indeed replaced by the new book. That statement is a throw-away I'm afraid.
Does Codex: Grey Knights have the same disclaimer? No.
Does Codex: Deathwatch have the same disclaimer? No.
Does Codex: Inquisition have the same disclamer? Yes.
I'm not quoting Codex: Imperial Agents, I'm quoting the webstore page of Codex: Adepta Sororitas.
I think it's pretty obvious which codex is replaced and which isn't. It wasn't me who needed an "official line" to understand how it works, what you do with the information and official statement is up to you.
I'm betting a cheese sandwich on most TOs going with " GK and DW Codexes are still valid but Inquisition and Sisters digital codexes arent". I'd even go buy some proper dutch cheese for that sandwich.
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2016/12/12 22:23:04
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought
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Well ...I do like cheese sandwiches and I agree it is clear how this is meant to work. But I also know what this community is like and I hardly think that will be considered the "official line".
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2016/12/12 22:27:13
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Confessor Of Sins
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Gunzhard wrote:Well ...I do like cheese sandwiches and I agree it is clear how this is meant to work. But I also know what this community is like and I hardly think that will be considered the "official line".
This is an Exorcist.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Sisters-of-Battle-Exorcist
It fires rockets out of the pipe organ. The pipes are thus the barrels of its weapon.
Consult your BRB and determine the arcs of fire for the Exorcist.
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2016/12/12 22:43:15
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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Gunzhard wrote:Well ...I do like cheese sandwiches and I agree it is clear how this is meant to work. But I also know what this community is like and I hardly think that will be considered the "official line".
There's an official line on BOTH invalidated codexes, there isn't one on the others.
Which book is valid and which isn't has never been "clearly ruled" anywhere, so it's really a non-issue unless GW starts publishing a list of valid books.
It's really not advancing the community at all by claiming that there are so many people that think like that and arguing their point. I've literally never met someone that went "oh, but GW never claimed that old books are invalidated, so I can just play this 2nd edition book instead".
If people that want to argue that actually exist, let them speak for themself and explain WHY they think that they're free to use a clearly invalidated codex?
It's fine if you wanna bring Celestine to a casual match with the new Codex: Imperial Agents, just ask beforehand. But that won't fly at a tournament or with a bad attitude, claiming it's your right to do that.
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2016/12/12 23:01:31
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Neki you know that, this is just your interpretation of that disclaimer not the clear cut official line right ? There are clearly players who read it in an other way, and the previous GW FAQ's seem to all point in the other direction. So it isn't all that clear cut.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/12 23:02:18
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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2016/12/12 23:26:59
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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oldzoggy wrote:Neki you know that, this is just your interpretation of that disclaimer not the clear cut official line right ?
There are clearly players who read it in an other way, and the previous GW FAQ's seem to all point in the other direction. So it isn't all that clear cut.
It's really not advancing the community at all by claiming that there are so many people that think like that and arguing their point. I've literally never met someone that went "oh, but GW never claimed that old books are invalidated, so I can just play this 2nd edition book instead".
If people that want to argue that actually exist, let them speak for themself and explain WHY they think that they're free to use a clearly invalidated codex?
You don't sound like one of those people, just playing devils advocate, am I right?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/12/12 23:28:51
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2016/12/12 23:31:09
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Confessor Of Sins
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nekooni wrote: oldzoggy wrote:Neki you know that, this is just your interpretation of that disclaimer not the clear cut official line right ?
There are clearly players who read it in an other way, and the previous GW FAQ's seem to all point in the other direction. So it isn't all that clear cut.
It's really not advancing the community at all by claiming that there are so many people that think like that and arguing their point. I've literally never met someone that went "oh, but GW never claimed that old books are invalidated, so I can just play this 2nd edition book instead".
If people that want to argue that actually exist, let them speak for themself and explain WHY they think that they're free to use a clearly invalidated codex?
You don't sound like one of those people, just playing devils advocate, am I right?
In this case the alternate Codices are up-to-date for the current edition, so it's not like bringing a 2e Codex to a 7e game.
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2016/12/12 23:45:05
Subject: Re:What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Came to this thread curious about the new Imperial Agents book and now I am leaving remembering how convoluted and ugly 40k's codex system is.
God damn, I really want to get back into 40k. Between this book, the Deathwatch release and Genestealer Cults there is a ton of cool stuff in 40k now, but the arguments over what is valid, and knowing that all this new gak will be invalid probably sooner rather than later just makes me go a big "nope" to the prospect of getting back in.
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2016/12/13 00:00:25
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
Aachen
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Pouncey wrote:nekooni wrote: oldzoggy wrote:Neki you know that, this is just your interpretation of that disclaimer not the clear cut official line right ?
There are clearly players who read it in an other way, and the previous GW FAQ's seem to all point in the other direction. So it isn't all that clear cut.
It's really not advancing the community at all by claiming that there are so many people that think like that and arguing their point. I've literally never met someone that went "oh, but GW never claimed that old books are invalidated, so I can just play this 2nd edition book instead".
If people that want to argue that actually exist, let them speak for themself and explain WHY they think that they're free to use a clearly invalidated codex?
You don't sound like one of those people, just playing devils advocate, am I right?
In this case the alternate Codices are up-to-date for the current edition, so it's not like bringing a 2e Codex to a 7e game.
Codex Inquisition had 5th edition rules. The Codex store page literally tells you where to find the latest rules for that faction.
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2016/12/13 00:03:50
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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So what if the old books are still for sale?
Kill Team was for sale even through its updating.
Because as a digital product, they can force an update to it.
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2016/12/13 00:16:52
Subject: Re:What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Northridge, CA
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DarkTraveler777 wrote:Came to this thread curious about the new Imperial Agents book and now I am leaving remembering how convoluted and ugly 40k's codex system is.
God damn, I really want to get back into 40k. Between this book, the Deathwatch release and Genestealer Cults there is a ton of cool stuff in 40k now, but the arguments over what is valid, and knowing that all this new gak will be invalid probably sooner rather than later just makes me go a big "nope" to the prospect of getting back in.
Or you could just talk to your local group and decide how you want to play things instead of letting Dakka ruin 40k for you.
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2016/12/13 00:44:21
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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nekooni wrote: Codex Inquisition had 5th edition rules. The Codex store page literally tells you where to find the latest rules for that faction. Nope not at all it was never 5th.It was 6th and is all updated to 7th editon for ages. I lost my power axes in the last update, that is not something you forget ; )
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/13 00:44:52
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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2016/12/13 00:45:16
Subject: Re:What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Confessor Of Sins
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andysonic1 wrote:Or you could just talk to your local group and decide how you want to play things instead of letting Dakka ruin 40k for you.
You may want to read the thread. Quite a few people insist that you should never use anything but the latest edition of your rules.
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2016/12/13 00:47:21
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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nekooni wrote: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:The only difference for SoB are whether or not Celestine is available. If someone gives me a hard time for fielding Celestine I am going to hate them very very much and not play with them (and possibly kill them dead when they are not looking?).
Or send them a sandwich with US cheese.
I'm assuming you mean "American" "Processed" "Cheese" TM(R)(C), rather than something like White Vermont Cheddar.
Cause the former is a hate crime, and the latter is awesome.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2016/12/13 00:47:36
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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We aren't talking about a 2nd edition codex. It is an 7th edition codex, that players actually own and is still for sale.
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Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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2016/12/13 00:48:40
Subject: Re:What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Northridge, CA
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Pouncey wrote: andysonic1 wrote:Or you could just talk to your local group and decide how you want to play things instead of letting Dakka ruin 40k for you.
You may want to read the thread. Quite a few people insist that you should never use anything but the latest edition of your rules.
Quite a few people you play with or quite a few people on Dakka?
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2016/12/13 00:48:51
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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GW isn't still selling second edition books advertised as active codices.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2016/12/13 00:50:49
Subject: Re:What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Confessor Of Sins
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andysonic1 wrote: Pouncey wrote: andysonic1 wrote:Or you could just talk to your local group and decide how you want to play things instead of letting Dakka ruin 40k for you.
You may want to read the thread. Quite a few people insist that you should never use anything but the latest edition of your rules.
Quite a few people you play with or quite a few people on Dakka?
Given that I told you to read the thread, what do you believe the answer to your question to be?
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2016/12/13 00:59:12
Subject: Re:What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Northridge, CA
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Pouncey wrote: andysonic1 wrote: Pouncey wrote: andysonic1 wrote:Or you could just talk to your local group and decide how you want to play things instead of letting Dakka ruin 40k for you.
You may want to read the thread. Quite a few people insist that you should never use anything but the latest edition of your rules.
Quite a few people you play with or quite a few people on Dakka?
Given that I told you to read the thread, what do you believe the answer to your question to be?
So my point stands, then? Good, glad we're in agreement.
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2016/12/13 01:07:27
Subject: Re:What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Confessor Of Sins
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I made the same point you did in my first post in the thread. So yes, we do agree.
I was merely pointing out that there are people in this thread who disagree quite strongly.
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2016/12/13 01:19:25
Subject: Re:What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Northridge, CA
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Pouncey wrote:
I made the same point you did in my first post in the thread. So yes, we do agree.
I was merely pointing out that there are people in this thread who disagree quite strongly.
And my original point is that it really doesn't matter what Dakka says, it matters what you and your opponent decide on, or you and your tournament organizer decide on. Putting so much stock in Dakka that it pushes you away from the game is madness and I see it all the time on this forum.
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2016/12/13 01:22:52
Subject: Re:What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Confessor Of Sins
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andysonic1 wrote:And my original point is that it really doesn't matter what Dakka says, it matters what you and your opponent decide on, or you and your tournament organizer decide on. Putting so much stock in Dakka that it pushes you away from the game is madness and I see it all the time on this forum.
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but when people create threads on Dakka asking for their fellow forumers' opinions, it's usually because they value the opinions of those forumers in some way.
Taking your approach, we may as well just shut down this entire forum site and merely discuss everything with our real-world groups instead.
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2016/12/13 01:51:21
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Frothing Warhound of Chaos
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Don't worry, The digital editions will be secretly updated so you have the latest edition.
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2016/12/13 02:52:54
Subject: What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book as an replacement for the current codexes ?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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The new book doesn't replace anything. Like all the new splash books, it just adds options to the existing ones. It's no big deal really.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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2016/12/13 03:09:21
Subject: Re:What if we simply reject the new Imperial agents book ?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Pouncey wrote:You can play an older edition with your opponent's permission if you want to.
Really it's up to you and your opponent to decide, the Internet cannot help you.
The Internet can help you out. He can gauge if it's worth his time to start or not. Just like asking "anyone want to play Unbound" almost everyone will say No, so it will not be worth buying, modelling and painting an army if he can't use it for Unbound. So maybe he will have to buy other minis to play with if he wants to get games in.
Same here. He can gauge to see if he really needs to buy the book so he can play with what ever army he wants or save a bit of money and not bother with it, just in case it sells out.
I say you still have to wait. While it seems most information is out, there could still be stuff in that we don't know yet and wait and see until it's actually released and then decide for yourself. It's too early to get worked on for nothing.
That said, if you were playing me, I would be perfectly fine with it. Thing is in most cases we will never have a game and you will have to think what is your alternative if your opponent says No. What will you do then? Have 2 lists? One for when someone says yes and when someone says no? Is this ok with you? Will you shelf your army until a new dex comes out? What is your plan B, C and D and maybe E?
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