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2016/12/28 19:04:10
Subject: Re:So Does Traitor Legions Make CSM Good?
BrianDavion wrote: traitor legions is a big improvement, the one problem area I'd say with CSMs right now is with the renegades. someone wanting to run a cosairs army around Huron right now is in a poorer place.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if there were another book planned to cover different renegade marine groups... and traitor guard too... heck Dark Mechanicum as well. But yeah you're right, Renegades have the least going for them now and suffer more greatly from the CSM codex's overpriced point cost issues.
Also, anyone noticed that you can't take Fabius Bile in a Legion army? wonder if that's an oversight or not
Actually that makes a lot of sense, since he went rogue and became a free agent. He's no longer affiliated with any Legion, and is thus outside of their "organization."
ohh I agree for the most part, heck I'd love to see a data slate based around Bile, the possiabilities are endless!
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
techsoldaten wrote: Not sure how controversial a statement this is, but Black Legion now has the most powerful alpha strike in the game.
Abaddon and his Bringers of Despair automatically arrive first turn and can bring a Cyclopeia Cabal for Shroud of Deceipt. The Cabal can also bring Last Memory of Yuranthos for an 18 inch Nova attack. This is before taking a Raptor Talon that assaults the turn it arrives or a Terminator Annihilation Force with Heavy Flamers to shoot up opponents.
The damage output in the first turn could be incredibly high. It does depend on not mishapping, but there are a lot of ways for it to go right as well.
I think the full **** move is to take Tzeentch Sorcerers in the Cabal and roll for Treason of Tzeentch as well. Then you get two enemy units (or the same one twice) shooting their own troops.
You also don't need Abaddon and Friends to come in first turn, any Deep Striking Warlord will do (Speartip bonus).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/28 19:13:36
MarsNZ wrote:Renegades hijacked the CSM book several editions ago, they should never have even been there, C:SM would have been more appropriate for them. Glad to see legions finally reclaiming their book, shame that Nurgle is still the obvious favourite over at GW.
This. Exactly this. Every. Single. Word. Of. This.
Insectum7 wrote:I think the full **** move is to take Tzeentch Sorcerers in the Cabal and roll for Treason of Tzeentch as well. Then you get two enemy units (or the same one twice) shooting their own troops.
You also don't need Abaddon and Friends to come in first turn, any Deep Striking Warlord will do (Speartip bonus).
Any plan to voluntarily take Tz marked sorcs outside a Thousand Sons legion is automatically a bad plan.
Peregrine wrote: What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
Any plan to voluntarily take Tz marked sorcs outside a Thousand Sons legion is automatically a bad plan.
Cutting down on sorcerer flexibility definitely hurts. But 4++ for Terminator Sorcerers isn't bad, and firing with two enemy units a turn can be nasty, nasty, nasty.
techsoldaten wrote: Not sure how controversial a statement this is, but Black Legion now has the most powerful alpha strike in the game.
Abaddon and his Bringers of Despair automatically arrive first turn and can bring a Cyclopeia Cabal for Shroud of Deceipt. The Cabal can also bring Last Memory of Yuranthos for an 18 inch Nova attack. This is before taking a Raptor Talon that assaults the turn it arrives or a Terminator Annihilation Force with Heavy Flamers to shoot up opponents.
The damage output in the first turn could be incredibly high. It does depend on not mishapping, but there are a lot of ways for it to go right as well.
Multiple relentless units of grav devs in pods would like to have a word with you, as would quite a few eldar and tau lists.
I am sure they would. The point of the Speartip is to knock these units out before they can impact the game. It would certainly be a different way to play Black Legion!
techsoldaten wrote: Not sure how controversial a statement this is, but Black Legion now has the most powerful alpha strike in the game.
Abaddon and his Bringers of Despair automatically arrive first turn and can bring a Cyclopeia Cabal for Shroud of Deceipt. The Cabal can also bring Last Memory of Yuranthos for an 18 inch Nova attack. This is before taking a Raptor Talon that assaults the turn it arrives or a Terminator Annihilation Force with Heavy Flamers to shoot up opponents.
The damage output in the first turn could be incredibly high. It does depend on not mishapping, but there are a lot of ways for it to go right as well.
Multiple relentless units of grav devs in pods would like to have a word with you, as would quite a few eldar and tau lists.
Grav pods would not like Night Lords I don't think. They would be badly disadvantaged. No target when they drop in and no Overwatch when they get charged. theyshow up to essentially get eaten. Hehehe. SURPRISE!
Time to start using Assault Centurions then...
Yup. those would probably handle it fine. hehehe. Although I do Drop in the Mutilators and the Obliterators to help with that whittling. the Chaos Lord probably will still allow the Night Lords to do okay but i wouldnt wanna hit an Assault Centurion full on. Mmmm.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
An electrodisplacing/soulswitching wolfstar/kdk houndstar has a more powerful alpha strike than what Black Legion can bring. Or just a whole armys worth of Genestealer Cults.
Not sure about Skyhammer Annihilation Force kitted to the max and accompanied by other elements or gravturion spam in pods, but those are also contenders.
And none of these rely on not mishapping aside from Drop Pods, but they can be placed in a way that a mishap is not possible due to Inertial Guidance System.
A good alpha sure but not the most powerful.
I was hoping someone would point out the other contenders.
Black Legion could turn out to be the best is because a) the Last Memory is an area of affect weapon that can cover almost half the board, b) the Shroud of Deceit lets you take the opponent's best gun and use it against them and c) the Bringers of Despair are awful tough on anything short of a Deathstar. If they also bring a second Cabal, a Raptor Talon (for assaults on deep strike) or a Terminator Annihilation Force kitted out with a ton of heavy flamers, there's going to be trouble.
Thinking there are many combinations and it will take time to work through what the best is. Perhaps it's not the most potent alpha strike in the game, but it certainly has potential.
techsoldaten wrote: Not sure how controversial a statement this is, but Black Legion now has the most powerful alpha strike in the game.
Abaddon and his Bringers of Despair automatically arrive first turn and can bring a Cyclopeia Cabal for Shroud of Deceipt. The Cabal can also bring Last Memory of Yuranthos for an 18 inch Nova attack. This is before taking a Raptor Talon that assaults the turn it arrives or a Terminator Annihilation Force with Heavy Flamers to shoot up opponents.
The damage output in the first turn could be incredibly high. It does depend on not mishapping, but there are a lot of ways for it to go right as well.
Multiple relentless units of grav devs in pods would like to have a word with you, as would quite a few eldar and tau lists.
Grav pods would not like Night Lords I don't think. They would be badly disadvantaged. No target when they drop in and no Overwatch when they get charged. theyshow up to essentially get eaten. Hehehe. SURPRISE!
Time to start using Assault Centurions then...
Yup. those would probably handle it fine. hehehe. Although I do Drop in the Mutilators and the Obliterators to help with that whittling. the Chaos Lord probably will still allow the Night Lords to do okay but i wouldnt wanna hit an Assault Centurion full on. Mmmm.
If you think even Death Guard Mutilators will do anything to Assault Centurions you're going to have a bad time. Striking first with S10 AP2 hurts them a good amount.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
If you think even Death Guard Mutilators will do anything to Assault Centurions you're going to have a bad time. Striking first with S10 AP2 hurts them a good amount.
I know. Also, I wrote a battle Report for those who might be interested.
Spoiler:
I played against Shadowzillas improved Inquisition list (technically its a Grey Knight list accourding to the ITC). I played my same Chaos Marines list I always play. The only change was that i split my 28 Raptors into three units to make them fit in a Raptor Talon, but literally unchanged functionally and exactly the same models.
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband - 333
108 Ordo Xenos Inquisitor
-ML 1, Force Sword, Bolt Pistol, Power Armor, Psychotroke and Rad Grenades, Liber Heresius
200 Nemesis Dreadknight
-Gatling Psilencer, Greatsword, Powerfist, Personal Teleporter
225 Nemesis Dreadknight
-Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Greatsword, Powerfist, Personal Teleporter
225 Nemesis Dreadknight
-Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Greatsword, Powerfist, Personal Teleporter
My list was a slight variation of this, wherein I took the Raptors and split them up to fit them in a Raptor Talon. not MUCH change other than that:
1996 Night Lords
1 Obliterator, 76 pts (Mark of Nurgle)
1 Obliterator, 76 pts (Mark of Nurgle)
1 Obliterator, 76 pts (Mark of Nurgle)
1 Mutilator, 61 pts (Mark of Nurgle)
1 Mutilator, 61 pts (Mark of Nurgle)
1 Mutilator, 61 pts (Mark of Nurgle)
13 Raptors, 280 pts (Mark of Nurgle+ Meltagun x2)
1 Raptor Champion, 50 pts (Melta Bombs +Mark of Nurgle+ Power Axe x1)
13 Raptors, 280 pts (Mark of Nurgle+ Meltagun x2)
1 Raptor Champion, 50 pts (Melta Bombs +Mark of Nurgle+ Power Axe x1)
NOTE: Raptors are split up to form a Raptro Talon instead
4 Black Legion Chaos Space Marines (Veterans of the Long War)
1 Aspiring Champion (Veterans of the Long War)
1 Chaos Rhino 40ts (Dirge Caster)
1 Sorcerer, 120 pts (Mark of Nurgle + Melta Bombs + Increase Mastery Level+ Aura of Dark Glory)
1 Black Legion Chaos Lord 160 pts (Mark of Nurgle + Blight Grenades + Melta Bombs + Sigil of Corruption + Combi-Meltagun + Gift of Mutation + Veterans of the Long War + Chaos Bike)
1 The Eye of Night
1 The Hand of Darkness
1 Heldrake, 170 pts
Mission: 3 Objectives, mostly spaced out along the center line.
As he had Coteaz, I had to plan carefully...and decided caution was for the weak Imperium, not the Night Lords. We feed on the fear.
He forced me to go first. knowing how many deep Strikers I owned, He deployed everything, and then put Coteaz out there using the Liber heresius in the middle to create a dangerous Deep striking bubble he could use to intercept my stuff if it got within 12". His plasma heavy Power Armored Warbands were snug in their Rhinos. His Auto Cannon Dreads were two to the left one to the right and ready. Librarian and the Grey Knights hid in reserve. DreadKnight to either flank.
I placed one rhino on the table with its 5 Chaos Marines attached to my Warlord on a Bike, behind a wall. The rest was coming in later. The game of cat and mouse had begun.
1
My only shot was the Eye of Night which did a penetrating hit to Coteaz's Rhino in the middle. I had hoped to wax it and expose him early but.. other than this very slight movement I stayed put and prepared for his response.
He shifted and moved to try and get some dreadnought on higher ground to make shots on me, but his only serious move was to bring the DreadKnight shunting 30" up the board on my right and take aim at my Warlord from a safe distance. He killed two Chaos Marines and wounded the Warlord.
2
i mishap's a Mutilator off the table. Another Mutilator dropped to the midline right and scattered badly, but safely, near the right most objective. One Obliterator Deep Struck too close to the Coteaz Rhino and got shot but lived. The Heldrake strafed the DreadKnight and Dreads but to no effect. Two Obliterators dropped in to the far left left behind the same Dreadnoughts in the corner to try and kill them deep in his territory (I knew his DreadKnight next to them could shunt out but the Dreadnoughts could not...). The Assault Cannon didn't work on the Dreadnoughts, but the second one used Twin Linked Plasma and blew one up. Two Raptor units dropped on opposite sides of the shunted Dreadnought on my right. Both Raptor units shot and charged it dead, with the Warlord joining one Raptor Squad. Unfortunately, just for fun i went ahead and committed suicide with my Warlord by challenging the Knight. No need, I did it just to see if he could pull it off. Consolidation took both Raptor units into large circles which took up space.
His response was for his leftmost DreadKnight to shoot and charge an Obliterator to pieces,, while he opened up from inside his Rhinos with plasmas. His Librarian Deep Struck in on the right most objectvie near my scattered mutilator accompanied by his Grey Knight retinue. He popped his Vortex of Doom on my Raptors. Killed two. Coteaz's unit unloaded on Raptors as well. His more central Rhino in the backfield full of plasmas rolled forward to the left, taking cover near my Obliterator, to get closer to the left side objective. He kinda knew I was coming for him in general so pushing forward at this stage would just have diluted his fire but he did lace into my Raptors pretty good and I was down to three in one of the Raptor units that had killed his DreadKnight. Ah revenge.
3
My Rhinos came in and took cover behind the building that once had been hiding our initial deployment. My last Mutilator landed directly behind his Dreadnought in the right far quadrant, taking cover from a crate, kinda. The Rhino that i started with jetted to the center to cut off Overwatch fire by Coteaz. All units were now in.
My third Raptors unit dropped in and smashed Coteaz rhino up with meltaguns, exploding it and then rushing in to devastating effect. A wounded Inquisitor which was also in the unit survived its challenge against my Raptor champion but could do no more good. The combat ended with Coteaz, the extra Inquisitor and like one warband guy left. The surviving Raptors from the Warlords squad joined in and were down to two Raptors by the end of it. The last Raptor Squad, further behind everyone because of the charge on the DreadKnight made forward progress to the objective on the right. Unscathed, they shot, charged and killed the Librarian and his interloping Grey Knight squad off the right most objective.
Meanwhile, the Obliterator in the building which Coteaz's unit didn't manage to slay on the drop, shot and killed the Sororitas Rhino that had moved up on the left objective. He charged the warband inside, killed two, and unfortunately they ran (Slow and Purposeful stopped the Obliterator from sweeping them) and now he was exposed). The lone Obliterator in the far left corner took a LasCannon shot at the Dreadnought there but didn't hurt it because it had cast a 6+ invul save on itself from the Sanctuary Power. The Heldrake swung right and strafed the Dreadnought to the right but did nothing.
On his turn, the warband the Obliterator sent running regrouped among some ruins there. The DreadKnight rewarded the left Obliterator for its failure to kill its dreadnought target with death. Being a Daemon against a DreadKnight with his Force power on? Not good. The dread that avoided destruction shot at the Heldrake and actually clipped it, blowing off its weapon and Stunning it! Ouch. Plasma poured from inside the remaining couple of Rhinos but rolled remarkably poorly. They were limited in their targets in any event. Despite this the rhino unit he had farthest back in the right quadrant managed to kill the Mutilator that had alighted behind them by getting out and shooting it to death.
Coteaz and his unit died swinging and the Raptors consolidated 6" towards the regrouped warband that the Obliterator had sent running.
At this stage, the right most objective was firmly in Mutilator hands, with a wall of Raptors and a Chaos Lord cordoning it off and coming at him. on the right side. Two of my rhinos were idling their engines with three lonely Chaos marines in my deployment zone near the middle waiting to go get the center and left objective. His Dreadnought and DreadKnight were isolated together in the far left quadrant along with his regrouped Warband. On the right facing a Raptor onslaught were his two remaining Rhinos, one with a disgorged unit that killed a Mutilator. Lost in all this was the Chaos Red Rhino which had stopped so much overwatch and was about to stop more!
4
The lone Raptor survivor from the Warlords unit ran to assault a rhino in the far right quadrant. The Raptor Talon Chaos Lord with his unit lept towards the warband which had regrouped, smashed them and killed them, spreading out next to the Dreadnought and DreadKnight in the far left quadrant. The final Raptor unit jumped to take advantage of the Mutilators death, and the disgorged warband that killed him was now ripe for the killing. To allow for a multicharge, the Raptors shot the Rhino the solo Raptor had also attacked, and then multi-assaulted it and the disgorged warbandt. The Red Rhino sped forward in this shooting face to bring its Dirge Casters to bear once more...and... killed itself on some crates,. The Overwatrch I failed to stop was brutal. I lost four Raptors and missed the disgorged unit. Oh sweet failure.
The Heldrake penetrated the right Dreadnought with its claws but it survived on yet another 6+ save from his Psyker Power Sanctuary. D'oh. It seemed Karma was back with a vengeance.
The Rhinos behind cover in my deployment zone leapt to take both the Objective in the center and on the left. At this point we had all the objectives and needed to start planning the end game. the Heldrake flew off the board.
His options were limited but he brought his plasma unit to bear on my Raptors who had missed their charge, leaving one alive. The price of failure is steep for Chaos Marines indeed. He fired his two Dreadnoughts full bore at the Chaos Lords unit that had just killed his warband but to no effect. He used his DreadKnight shunt move to move WAY across the board towards the right most objective which currently had just a Mutilator to defend it, but he didn't kill it.That was about what he had left to work with other than his Rhino which I had failed to kill.
On the enemy turn the solo Raptor damaged one of his two Rhinos from the previous turn because it couldnt move.
5.
My Mutilator stood his ground to the right and prepared for the approach of the DreadKnight at the right most objective. The solo Raptor finished the Rhino it was munching on. The Chaos Lord and hir Raptors swung to the center and prepared to repel the Warband approaching the Center objective. The other solo Raptor took cover behind a rhino to try and avoid the Dreadnought guns.
His Warband moved and ran forward to try and get close enough to get the center objective if there was another turn with no choice but to brave my fire. The DreadKnight closed the distance to the Mutilator on the right but didnt kill it. It was on like Donkey Kong. Moment of truth. i was still in control of all three objectives.
6.
The two solo Raptors jumped towards the oncoming Dreadknight forming a triangle around it with the Mutilator. Chaos Marines poured from their rhinos as well to shoot at the DreadKnight ineffectually (in total i think we caused one wound). A few shot at the oncoming Warband to the right heading to center objective, Killing a couple of them. The Chaos Lord Raptors killed the Dreadnought on the left and consolidated towards the center. In another fit of silly heroics I decided to attempt assaulting the big boy to lock it in place and maybe splitting its attacks enough to matter. Unfortunately the Overwatch was again successful and I lost one of the Raptors. The battle was conclusive and the DreadKnight killed the Raptor and Mutilator and was now on the right objective and holding it. The Heldrake strafed the last Dreadnought on the right and glanced it, then shot off the table.
On his turn he needed everything to go right. His DreadKnight was effectively locked on the right objective so he couldnt get closer and took pot shots at the Chaos Marines, killing some but they held. The Dreadnought tried to kill the rhino sitting at center objective in the hopes his Warband could get there if they ran far enough... but no. In the end his Warband fell short, his Dreadnought could not kill the Rhinos and the DreadKnight did its best.
Game over.
I got First Blood, and Slay the Warlord. i controlled two objectives out of three. He did stop me from getting Line Breaker, which was a result of him repelling me on my final push on his Warbands. The immobilized result on a single rhino with its Dirge Caster meant the world to his chances. It can be the smallest moment that gives one hope which is why you never quit.
He controlled one of the 3 objectives. I placed it too far forward for him to get that and line breaker so the final score was 8-3
Great battle... mnus my silly heroics. But that was fun too.
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2016/12/30 18:22:00
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
BrianDavion wrote: traitor legions is a big improvement, the one problem area I'd say with CSMs right now is with the renegades. someone wanting to run a cosairs army around Huron right now is in a poorer place.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if there were another book planned to cover different renegade marine groups... and traitor guard too... heck Dark Mechanicum as well. But yeah you're right, Renegades have the least going for them now and suffer more greatly from the CSM codex's overpriced point cost issues.
Also, anyone noticed that you can't take Fabius Bile in a Legion army? wonder if that's an oversight or not
Actually that makes a lot of sense, since he went rogue and became a free agent. He's no longer affiliated with any Legion, and is thus outside of their "organization."
As Insectum says, definitely not an oversight. Fabius is a member of the Emperor's Children only because of his power armour's colours.
techsoldaten wrote:I am sure they would. The point of the Speartip is to knock these units out before they can impact the game. It would certainly be a different way to play Black Legion!
Not sure how you're planning on knocking out units before they can impact the game when said units are ones that come down in drop pods and you have no interceptor.
techsoldaten wrote:Black Legion could turn out to be the best is because a) the Last Memory is an area of affect weapon that can cover almost half the board, b) the Shroud of Deceit lets you take the opponent's best gun and use it against them and c) the Bringers of Despair are awful tough on anything short of a Deathstar. If they also bring a second Cabal, a Raptor Talon (for assaults on deep strike) or a Terminator Annihilation Force kitted out with a ton of heavy flamers, there's going to be trouble.
Thinking there are many combinations and it will take time to work through what the best is. Perhaps it's not the most potent alpha strike in the game, but it certainly has potential.
Last Memory kills it's caster if they fail to manifest one of the boosted casts, so there's far more risk involved compared to back in 6th when the dex was written for. You're going to want a fair amount of dice to mitigate that risk, even with a familiar. Shroud is pretty good, but it's also ML3, so even with a familiar, you're still looking at 6 dice for an ~88% chance. The bringers have to make it to melee, so I'd suggest that they'll get Grav'ed / Ion Accelerator'ed / Shrieked off the board in short order by the higher tier armies fairly quickly if not just flat out crushed by a psychic deathstar since you're always going to let the enemy have a turn to get their buffs up. As for the TAF with "a bunch" of heavy flamers, not only are you spending waaaay too many points on termies for that to be a thing, you're also going to have to deep strike danger close with no scatter mitigation to effectively use those flamers, resulting in too many cases of either mishaps or scatters taking you out of flamer range, at which point you're just shooting things with bolters and whatever combis you bought along.
Don't get me wrong, it's not as bad as many people seem to think the Black Legion are and they can throw some decent punches, but claiming that their alpha is anywhere near devastating is overcalling things by quite a bit. If you'd care to point me to a list that shows otherwise however, I'd love to be mistaken.
Peregrine wrote: What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
Actually, the RFP part of Last Memory is on Perils and not failures, so even if your Sorcerer dies, it's still going to hurt against certain armies if you invest in it. While it's no good against, say, a Gladius, it has the potential to lay the hurt on MSU Bikes, Genestealer Cults, etc. I honestly view it more as an area-denial tool or means to extricate units from close combats more than for alpha-strikes. Worst comes to worst, paying an extra 5 points over an ML 2 caster to guarantee access to Psychic Shriek and Sunburst is pretty nice.
I imagine it could be possible to do a "min cad" of Necron allies in order to bring Deathmarks to the party. Not only would they provide de-facto Interceptor, but you can have a unit automatically arrive turn 1 alongside your Warlord, due to Allies of Convenience mechanics. They would get hit by Last Memory though.
techsoldaten wrote:I am sure they would. The point of the Speartip is to knock these units out before they can impact the game. It would certainly be a different way to play Black Legion!
Not sure how you're planning on knocking out units before they can impact the game when said units are ones that come down in drop pods and you have no interceptor.
...
Don't get me wrong, it's not as bad as many people seem to think the Black Legion are and they can throw some decent punches, but claiming that their alpha is anywhere near devastating is overcalling things by quite a bit. If you'd care to point me to a list that shows otherwise however, I'd love to be mistaken.
Good points. Not prepared to debate it, more ready to table test it.
Looking to see what this can do to top-tier armies. It's been a long time since I played Eldar or Tau, but my impression was their armies stop being as useful when you take out their psykers. They would also be susceptible to a large nova blast in the backfield, and getting a shot off with one of their big guns could be devastating.
If you think even Death Guard Mutilators will do anything to Assault Centurions you're going to have a bad time. Striking first with S10 AP2 hurts them a good amount.
I know. Also, I wrote a battle Report for those who might be interested.
Spoiler:
I played against Shadowzillas improved Inquisition list (technically its a Grey Knight list accourding to the ITC). I played my same Chaos Marines list I always play. The only change was that i split my 28 Raptors into three units to make them fit in a Raptor Talon, but literally unchanged functionally and exactly the same models.
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband - 333
108 Ordo Xenos Inquisitor
-ML 1, Force Sword, Bolt Pistol, Power Armor, Psychotroke and Rad Grenades, Liber Heresius
4 Black Legion Chaos Space Marines (Veterans of the Long War)
1 Aspiring Champion (Veterans of the Long War)
1 Chaos Rhino 40ts (Dirge Caster)
1 Sorcerer, 120 pts (Mark of Nurgle + Melta Bombs + Increase Mastery Level+ Aura of Dark Glory)
1 Black Legion Chaos Lord 160 pts (Mark of Nurgle + Blight Grenades + Melta Bombs + Sigil of Corruption + Combi-Meltagun + Gift of Mutation + Veterans of the Long War + Chaos Bike)
1 The Eye of Night
1 The Hand of Darkness
1 Heldrake, 170 pts
Mission: 3 Objectives, mostly spaced out along the center line.
As he had Coteaz, I had to plan carefully...and decided caution was for the weak Imperium, not the Night Lords. We feed on the fear.
He forced me to go first. knowing how many deep Strikers I owned, He deployed everything, and then put Coteaz out there using the Liber heresius in the middle to create a dangerous Deep striking bubble he could use to intercept my stuff if it got within 12". His plasma heavy Power Armored Warbands were snug in their Rhinos. His Auto Cannon Dreads were two to the left one to the right and ready. Librarian and the Grey Knights hid in reserve. DreadKnight to either flank.
I placed one rhino on the table with its 5 Chaos Marines attached to my Warlord on a Bike, behind a wall. The rest was coming in later. The game of cat and mouse had begun.
1
My only shot was the Eye of Night which did a penetrating hit to Coteaz's Rhino in the middle. I had hoped to wax it and expose him early but.. other than this very slight movement I stayed put and prepared for his response.
He shifted and moved to try and get some dreadnought on higher ground to make shots on me, but his only serious move was to bring the DreadKnight shunting 30" up the board on my right and take aim at my Warlord from a safe distance. He killed two Chaos Marines and wounded the Warlord.
2
i mishap's a Mutilator off the table. Another Mutilator dropped to the midline right and scattered badly, but safely, near the right most objective. One Obliterator Deep Struck too close to the Coteaz Rhino and got shot but lived. The Heldrake strafed the DreadKnight and Dreads but to no effect. Two Obliterators dropped in to the far left left behind the same Dreadnoughts in the corner to try and kill them deep in his territory (I knew his DreadKnight next to them could shunt out but the Dreadnoughts could not...). The Assault Cannon didn't work on the Dreadnoughts, but the second one used Twin Linked Plasma and blew one up. Two Raptor units dropped on opposite sides of the shunted Dreadnought on my right. Both Raptor units shot and charged it dead, with the Warlord joining one Raptor Squad. Unfortunately, just for fun i went ahead and committed suicide with my Warlord by challenging the Knight. No need, I did it just to see if he could pull it off. Consolidation took both Raptor units into large circles which took up space.
His response was for his leftmost DreadKnight to shoot and charge an Obliterator to pieces,, while he opened up from inside his Rhinos with plasmas. His Librarian Deep Struck in on the right most objectvie near my scattered mutilator accompanied by his Grey Knight retinue. He popped his Vortex of Doom on my Raptors. Killed two. Coteaz's unit unloaded on Raptors as well. His more central Rhino in the backfield full of plasmas rolled forward to the left, taking cover near my Obliterator, to get closer to the left side objective. He kinda knew I was coming for him in general so pushing forward at this stage would just have diluted his fire but he did lace into my Raptors pretty good and I was down to three in one of the Raptor units that had killed his DreadKnight. Ah revenge.
3
My Rhinos came in and took cover behind the building that once had been hiding our initial deployment. My last Mutilator landed directly behind his Dreadnought in the right far quadrant, taking cover from a crate, kinda. The Rhino that i started with jetted to the center to cut off Overwatch fire by Coteaz. All units were now in.
My third Raptors unit dropped in and smashed Coteaz rhino up with meltaguns, exploding it and then rushing in to devastating effect. A wounded Inquisitor which was also in the unit survived its challenge against my Raptor champion but could do no more good. The combat ended with Coteaz, the extra Inquisitor and like one warband guy left. The surviving Raptors from the Warlords squad joined in and were down to two Raptors by the end of it. The last Raptor Squad, further behind everyone because of the charge on the DreadKnight made forward progress to the objective on the right. Unscathed, they shot, charged and killed the Librarian and his interloping Grey Knight squad off the right most objective.
Meanwhile, the Obliterator in the building which Coteaz's unit didn't manage to slay on the drop, shot and killed the Sororitas Rhino that had moved up on the left objective. He charged the warband inside, killed two, and unfortunately they ran (Slow and Purposeful stopped the Obliterator from sweeping them) and now he was exposed). The lone Obliterator in the far left corner took a LasCannon shot at the Dreadnought there but didn't hurt it because it had cast a 6+ invul save on itself from the Sanctuary Power. The Heldrake swung right and strafed the Dreadnought to the right but did nothing.
On his turn, the warband the Obliterator sent running regrouped among some ruins there. The DreadKnight rewarded the left Obliterator for its failure to kill its dreadnought target with death. Being a Daemon against a DreadKnight with his Force power on? Not good. The dread that avoided destruction shot at the Heldrake and actually clipped it, blowing off its weapon and Stunning it! Ouch. Plasma poured from inside the remaining couple of Rhinos but rolled remarkably poorly. They were limited in their targets in any event. Despite this the rhino unit he had farthest back in the right quadrant managed to kill the Mutilator that had alighted behind them by getting out and shooting it to death.
Coteaz and his unit died swinging and the Raptors consolidated 6" towards the regrouped warband that the Obliterator had sent running.
At this stage, the right most objective was firmly in Mutilator hands, with a wall of Raptors and a Chaos Lord cordoning it off and coming at him. on the right side. Two of my rhinos were idling their engines with three lonely Chaos marines in my deployment zone near the middle waiting to go get the center and left objective. His Dreadnought and DreadKnight were isolated together in the far left quadrant along with his regrouped Warband. On the right facing a Raptor onslaught were his two remaining Rhinos, one with a disgorged unit that killed a Mutilator. Lost in all this was the Chaos Red Rhino which had stopped so much overwatch and was about to stop more!
4
The lone Raptor survivor from the Warlords unit ran to assault a rhino in the far right quadrant. The Raptor Talon Chaos Lord with his unit lept towards the warband which had regrouped, smashed them and killed them, spreading out next to the Dreadnought and DreadKnight in the far left quadrant. The final Raptor unit jumped to take advantage of the Mutilators death, and the disgorged warband that killed him was now ripe for the killing. To allow for a multicharge, the Raptors shot the Rhino the solo Raptor had also attacked, and then multi-assaulted it and the disgorged warbandt. The Red Rhino sped forward in this shooting face to bring its Dirge Casters to bear once more...and... killed itself on some crates,. The Overwatrch I failed to stop was brutal. I lost four Raptors and missed the disgorged unit. Oh sweet failure.
The Heldrake penetrated the right Dreadnought with its claws but it survived on yet another 6+ save from his Psyker Power Sanctuary. D'oh. It seemed Karma was back with a vengeance.
The Rhinos behind cover in my deployment zone leapt to take both the Objective in the center and on the left. At this point we had all the objectives and needed to start planning the end game. the Heldrake flew off the board.
His options were limited but he brought his plasma unit to bear on my Raptors who had missed their charge, leaving one alive. The price of failure is steep for Chaos Marines indeed. He fired his two Dreadnoughts full bore at the Chaos Lords unit that had just killed his warband but to no effect. He used his DreadKnight shunt move to move WAY across the board towards the right most objective which currently had just a Mutilator to defend it, but he didn't kill it.That was about what he had left to work with other than his Rhino which I had failed to kill.
On the enemy turn the solo Raptor damaged one of his two Rhinos from the previous turn because it couldnt move.
5.
My Mutilator stood his ground to the right and prepared for the approach of the DreadKnight at the right most objective. The solo Raptor finished the Rhino it was munching on. The Chaos Lord and hir Raptors swung to the center and prepared to repel the Warband approaching the Center objective. The other solo Raptor took cover behind a rhino to try and avoid the Dreadnought guns.
His Warband moved and ran forward to try and get close enough to get the center objective if there was another turn with no choice but to brave my fire. The DreadKnight closed the distance to the Mutilator on the right but didnt kill it. It was on like Donkey Kong. Moment of truth. i was still in control of all three objectives.
6.
The two solo Raptors jumped towards the oncoming Dreadknight forming a triangle around it with the Mutilator. Chaos Marines poured from their rhinos as well to shoot at the DreadKnight ineffectually (in total i think we caused one wound). A few shot at the oncoming Warband to the right heading to center objective, Killing a couple of them. The Chaos Lord Raptors killed the Dreadnought on the left and consolidated towards the center. In another fit of silly heroics I decided to attempt assaulting the big boy to lock it in place and maybe splitting its attacks enough to matter. Unfortunately the Overwatch was again successful and I lost one of the Raptors. The battle was conclusive and the DreadKnight killed the Raptor and Mutilator and was now on the right objective and holding it. The Heldrake strafed the last Dreadnought on the right and glanced it, then shot off the table.
On his turn he needed everything to go right. His DreadKnight was effectively locked on the right objective so he couldnt get closer and took pot shots at the Chaos Marines, killing some but they held. The Dreadnought tried to kill the rhino sitting at center objective in the hopes his Warband could get there if they ran far enough... but no. In the end his Warband fell short, his Dreadnought could not kill the Rhinos and the DreadKnight did its best.
Game over.
I got First Blood, and Slay the Warlord. i controlled two objectives out of three. He did stop me from getting Line Breaker, which was a result of him repelling me on my final push on his Warbands. The immobilized result on a single rhino with its Dirge Caster meant the world to his chances. It can be the smallest moment that gives one hope which is why you never quit.
He controlled one of the 3 objectives. I placed it too far forward for him to get that and line breaker so the final score was 8-3
Great battle... mnus my silly heroics. But that was fun too.
Edit'd, now with 100% more lists
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/30 18:21:00
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Hey guys, while I'm here I'll just ask the question that I've only just been wondering recently.
Did the Black Legion section of this book add or change anything from the Black Legion Supplement, or is it just copy/pasted like the Thousand Sons from WoM?
Quarterdime wrote: Hey guys, while I'm here I'll just ask the question that I've only just been wondering recently.
Did the Black Legion section of this book add or change anything from the Black Legion Supplement, or is it just copy/pasted like the Thousand Sons from WoM?
You can use either one. There are differences.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
