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 dracpanzer wrote:

 JamesY wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Would have been nice to get a rule allowing LotD to deploy on turn 1 besides "ask your opponent".

Whilst I fully agree, I can't see anyone disagreeing with it. If they were unhappy about a full army deepstriking on top of them, I'll offer to deploy half the army normally. If they won't compromise, they probably aren't someone I was going to have an enjoyable game with anyway.

I'll still be using the lotd codex though. I'm not remodelling my heavy weapons and sgts weapons just because they want to limit the options to the existing range, rather than add to it.

Sadly, since the Digi-dex I haven't found a single TO willing to allow even so much as an old demonic assault style army split or even just rolling for reserves on turn 1. First turn vanguard vets and skyhammer they are cool with though.


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 JamesY wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Would have been nice to get a rule allowing LotD to deploy on turn 1 besides "ask your opponent".

Whilst I fully agree, I can't see anyone disagreeing with it. If they were unhappy about a full army deepstriking on top of them, I'll offer to deploy half the army normally. If they won't compromise, they probably aren't someone I was going to have an enjoyable game with anyway.

I'll still be using the lotd codex though. I'm not remodelling my heavy weapons and sgts weapons just because they want to limit the options to the existing range, rather than add to it.

I think people are so caught up in the angst over how strong and game-turning so many of these current formations are, they get salty they can't just disallow them out of hand.

So in turn, if there's something they CAN disallow, they do it almost as a reflex to keep control of something sane in this game.

The fact that the entire book is a nerf to every component element?

Is there a 'common sense' option?

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The fact that the entire book is a nerf to every component element?

Is it, though? Jaekero got better. Sisters got marginally better. Seraphim got better, unless you took them with Celestine. (To be fair, everyone took Seraphim with Celestine, but still.) Access to Priests is better. Acolytes got better. Access to cheap psykers wasn't technically increased, but it was made less sketchy, and is easier to protect from being wiped off the board. A new detachment for Sisters of Battle isn't great, but it's not a nerf. Inquisitors got somewhat better, what with unlimited Warlord Trait access, though losing Servo-skulls makes it more of a wash.

Grey knights got a little better or at least easier to field especially since the book doesn't limit to only those Units found in cia. Only to the GK faction. I mean I was gonna take termies and ndks anyway, but who says someone doesn't want pallidins and stormravens?

Im not sure if anyone answered the Transport question, but they actually have a ruling on it in the BRB. According to page 120 Dedicated Transports gain the Faction of the unit they are attached to. The reason no one knows this is that it literally hasn't come up until now.


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Versatilebeats wrote:
Grey knights got a little better or at least easier to field especially since the book doesn't limit to only those Units found in cia. Only to the GK faction. I mean I was gonna take termies and ndks anyway, but who says someone doesn't want pallidins and stormravens?

Except its basically a Nemesis Strikeforce I mean its nice and all, but you can do the exact same thing already with the base Grey Knight Dex, and its probably better.

 Grimmor wrote:
Im not sure if anyone answered the Transport question, but they actually have a ruling on it in the BRB. According to page 120 Dedicated Transports gain the Faction of the unit they are attached to. The reason no one knows this is that it literally hasn't come up until now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Versatilebeats wrote:
Grey knights got a little better or at least easier to field especially since the book doesn't limit to only those Units found in cia. Only to the GK faction. I mean I was gonna take termies and ndks anyway, but who says someone doesn't want pallidins and stormravens?

Except its basically a Nemesis Strikeforce I mean its nice and all, but you can do the exact same thing already with the base Grey Knight Dex, and its probably better.

This can be seen as an improvement from the nsf. The only tax to dreadknights now is a troop or fast attack. A rhino can fill that tax role and you unlock a dreadknight. It's goofy but can be done.

 Alpharius wrote:
RULE #1 - BE POLITE.

So if you've something to say that will go against RULE #1?

Best not to say it...

Sometimes reality makes politeness difficult to achieve. Occasionally politeness is even improper as the severity of the situation cannot be emphasized properly while maintaining civil discourse.

That said, I have a question about the Exorcist.

Can it finally target enemy tanks, or is the universal house rule for Exorcists allowing it a 360 degree sphere of LoS going to be in effect for years more at the least?

 Pouncey wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
RULE #1 - BE POLITE.

So if you've something to say that will go against RULE #1?

Best not to say it...

Sometimes reality makes politeness difficult to achieve. Occasionally politeness is even improper as the severity of the situation cannot be emphasized properly while maintaining civil discourse.

That said, I have a question about the Exorcist.

Can it finally target enemy tanks, or is the universal house rule for Exorcists allowing it a 360 degree sphere of LoS going to be in effect for years more at the least?

It is specifically listed as a 360 degree turret. Huzzah!

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
RULE #1 - BE POLITE.

So if you've something to say that will go against RULE #1?

Best not to say it...

Sometimes reality makes politeness difficult to achieve. Occasionally politeness is even improper as the severity of the situation cannot be emphasized properly while maintaining civil discourse.

That said, I have a question about the Exorcist.

Can it finally target enemy tanks, or is the universal house rule for Exorcists allowing it a 360 degree sphere of LoS going to be in effect for years more at the least?

It is specifically listed as a 360 degree turret. Huzzah!

Thank god.

And it only took, what, 5 years? 6?

When exactly did that start being a problem, anyways?

 Pouncey wrote:
That said, I have a question about the Exorcist.

Can it finally target enemy tanks, or is the universal house rule for Exorcists allowing it a 360 degree sphere of LoS going to be in effect for years more at the least?

Since when could the Exorcist not target enemy tanks?

 BBAP wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
That said, I have a question about the Exorcist.

Can it finally target enemy tanks, or is the universal house rule for Exorcists allowing it a 360 degree sphere of LoS going to be in effect for years more at the least?

Since when could the Exorcist not target enemy tanks?

Since its only weapon was fixed in place and aimed straight upward, making the vehicle weapon rules give it a 45 degree cone of fire straight upward.

The fact it rains its rockets down from above was never represented anywhere in the rules themselves.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The fact that the entire book is a nerf to every component element?

Is it, though? Jaekero got better. Sisters got marginally better. Seraphim got better, unless you took them with Celestine. (To be fair, everyone took Seraphim with Celestine, but still.) Access to Priests is better. Acolytes got better. Access to cheap psykers wasn't technically increased, but it was made less sketchy, and is easier to protect from being wiped off the board. A new detachment for Sisters of Battle isn't great, but it's not a nerf. Inquisitors got somewhat better, what with unlimited Warlord Trait access, though losing Servo-skulls makes it more of a wash.

Everything that has changed (beyond free bonus Warlord Traits, I will concede that was a buff) is either irrelevant (You can take a fragment of a NSF. You can take an Aquila Kill-Team with just the Veteran squad. Woo.), a nerf (0-1 cap on almost all henchmen, 2.5x cost on psyker henchmen, -3 fire points on Inquisitorial Chimeras), or stupid (Empty Valkyries, Enginseers in a Cult Mechanicus supplement with AdMech-locked abilities...).


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 Pouncey wrote:

 BBAP wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
That said, I have a question about the Exorcist.

Can it finally target enemy tanks, or is the universal house rule for Exorcists allowing it a 360 degree sphere of LoS going to be in effect for years more at the least?

Since when could the Exorcist not target enemy tanks?

Since its only weapon was fixed in place and aimed straight upward, making the vehicle weapon rules give it a 45 degree cone of fire straight upward.

The fact it rains its rockets down from above was never represented anywhere in the rules themselves.

Can we please not get into the argument about just how terrible GW's writers are at defining line of sight again?

(If you play LoS strictly-as-written to the point that people are claiming an Exorcist can't shoot anything you're also reading it strictly enough that a sponson gun has 360-degree LOS but ignores cover when shooting targets on the wrong side of the tank.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Can we please not get into the argument about just how terrible GW's writers are at defining line of sight again?

(If you play LoS strictly-as-written to the point that people are claiming an Exorcist can't shoot anything you're also reading it strictly enough that a sponson gun has 360-degree LOS but ignores cover when shooting targets on the wrong side of the tank.)

If you read the conversation, you'll see there's no argument going on. I asked if they fixed it. Someone said they did. Someone asked how it was ever broken. I explained.

Also, the issues with the Exorcist was not due to an overly-literal reading of the rules, it was just applying the standard rules as they applied to literally every other weapon in the game in conventional gameplay.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The fact that the entire book is a nerf to every component element?

Is it, though? Jaekero got better. Sisters got marginally better. Seraphim got better, unless you took them with Celestine. (To be fair, everyone took Seraphim with Celestine, but still.) Access to Priests is better. Acolytes got better. Access to cheap psykers wasn't technically increased, but it was made less sketchy, and is easier to protect from being wiped off the board. A new detachment for Sisters of Battle isn't great, but it's not a nerf. Inquisitors got somewhat better, what with unlimited Warlord Trait access, though losing Servo-skulls makes it more of a wash.

Everything that has changed (beyond free bonus Warlord Traits, I will concede that was a buff) is either irrelevant (You can take a fragment of a NSF. You can take an Aquila Kill-Team with just the Veteran squad. Woo.), a nerf (0-1 cap on almost all henchmen, 2.5x cost on psyker henchmen, -3 fire points on Inquisitorial Chimeras), or stupid (Empty Valkyries, Enginseers in a Cult Mechanicus supplement with AdMech-locked abilities...).

Okay, I'm not even sure how to respond to this, because you're either intentionally reading the rules poorly and ignoring various parts of the codex as some part of a martyr complex, or you're just not very good at reading rules.
The henchmen aren't capped at 0-1 models, it's 0-1 units.
Psyker henchmen were nerfed to an extent, yes, but they are Independent Characters now (meaning that, even though they're stuck in the squad, they get a 2+ Look Out, Sir!), and the 18-pt henchmen psyker batteries were the very definition of a broken rule. And you're also leaving out lots and lots of buffs, some of which I mentioned earlier in this thread - Daemonhosts are a little better, Jaekero got better, Acts of Faith are slightly better for lasting the whole turn instead of a single phase, and those slightly-more-expensive psykers now give reserves bonuses. Oh, and arco-flagellants are cheaper, making them actually viable for their price. Losing the fire points kind of sucks, but as with the Psykers, that was a rule that had been broken and needed updating to bring in line with the modern rules.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
You can take a fragment of a NSF. You can take an Aquila Kill-Team with just the Veteran squad

Given the "Aquila" part of "Aquila Kill-Team"... did Sisters of Battle get a new unit?

 Pouncey wrote:
Since its only weapon was fixed in place and aimed straight upward, making the vehicle weapon rules give it a 45 degree cone of fire straight upward.

That's not a thing. P.74, e-BRB. The weapon has a 45 degree vertical pivot and a 45 degree arc of fire. 45 degree cone of fire at the ceiling tiles is a house rule, not RAW. I can't shoot stuff in B2B with the Exorcist, but now it's a turret weapon I can't do that anyway according to the illustration on the same page. Also, if your gaming group is populated by the kind of Chapter Masters who think this is a thing then I'd find another gaming group.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pouncey wrote:
Also, the issues with the Exorcist was not due to an overly-literal reading of the rules, it was just applying the standard rules as they applied to literally every other weapon in the game in conventional gameplay.

No, it involved ignoring part of the rules because you wanted an excuse to bitch about the Exorcist. That's all this particular debate has ever been since it started.

 BBAP wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Since its only weapon was fixed in place and aimed straight upward, making the vehicle weapon rules give it a 45 degree cone of fire straight upward.

That's not a thing. P.74, e-BRB. The weapon has a 45 degree vertical pivot and a 45 degree arc of fire. 45 degree cone of fire at the ceiling tiles is a house rule, not RAW. I can't shoot stuff in B2B with the Exorcist, but now it's a turret weapon I can't do that anyway according to the illustration on the same page. Also, if your gaming group is populated by the kind of Chapter Masters who think this is a thing then I'd find another gaming group.

You are correct. The weapon has a 45 degree vertical and horizontal arc of fire. However, as it is pointed straight up, and the rules for where that arc is centered dictate that it is drawn along the barrel of the weapon... Those arcs are aimed directly upward. Allowing it to fire parallel to the table was the equivalent of letting a Leman Russ' sponsons fire to the direct rear of the tank.

Yes, the change to make it a turret nullified this problem, and this issue is precisely why it is now a turret weapon with a 360 degree sphere of LoS in fact.

And I first heard about it from people here on Dakka about 5 years ago. The general consensus was that people either didn't know it was even a thing, or knew but didn't care enough to enforce RAW on this particular weapon as the RAW would render the tank completely and utterly pointless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BBAP wrote:
No, it involved ignoring part of the rules because you wanted an excuse to bitch about the Exorcist. That's all this particular debate has ever been since it started.

...The Exorcist is and was one of the best units in the army. Why on Earth would we complain about it just for the sake of complaining?

Regardless, the issue is now permanently solved. Let's just drop it.

 Pouncey wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
You can take a fragment of a NSF. You can take an Aquila Kill-Team with just the Veteran squad

Given the "Aquila" part of "Aquila Kill-Team"... did Sisters of Battle get a new unit?

Whaddya mean?

 Thunderfrog wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
You can take a fragment of a NSF. You can take an Aquila Kill-Team with just the Veteran squad

Given the "Aquila" part of "Aquila Kill-Team"... did Sisters of Battle get a new unit?

Whaddya mean?

To my knowledge, the Aquila tends to be a rather religious symbol in the Imperium. I'm basing that off of a John Ringo book with a reference to a "Sign of the Aquila" regarding a religious order, and there having been a Forge World transport aircraft for Sisters of Battle called an "Aquila Lander" though, so I might be wrong in how I'm interpreting the word "Aquila."

Waaaghpower wrote:
Seraphim got better, unless you took them with Celestine.

What changed with them?

 Pouncey wrote:

 Thunderfrog wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
You can take a fragment of a NSF. You can take an Aquila Kill-Team with just the Veteran squad

Given the "Aquila" part of "Aquila Kill-Team"... did Sisters of Battle get a new unit?

Whaddya mean?

To my knowledge, the Aquila tends to be a rather religious symbol in the Imperium. I'm basing that off of a John Ringo book with a reference to a "Sign of the Aquila" regarding a religious order, and there having been a Forge World transport aircraft for Sisters of Battle called an "Aquila Lander" though, so I might be wrong in how I'm interpreting the word "Aquila."

IIRC the Aquila is the high end shuttle for all imperial officers, notables etc.

In this case its a Deathwatch kill team.

 Mr Morden wrote:
IIRC the Aquila is the high end shuttle for all imperial officers, notables etc.

In this case its a Deathwatch kill team.

Okay then. I was mistaken. Sorry.

Couldn't they have just called it a "Deathwatch Kill-Team" though? Why the Aquila part?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The fact that the entire book is a nerf to every component element?

Is it, though? Jaekero got better. Sisters got marginally better. Seraphim got better, unless you took them with Celestine. (To be fair, everyone took Seraphim with Celestine, but still.) Access to Priests is better. Acolytes got better. Access to cheap psykers wasn't technically increased, but it was made less sketchy, and is easier to protect from being wiped off the board. A new detachment for Sisters of Battle isn't great, but it's not a nerf. Inquisitors got somewhat better, what with unlimited Warlord Trait access, though losing Servo-skulls makes it more of a wash.

Everything that has changed (beyond free bonus Warlord Traits, I will concede that was a buff) is either irrelevant (You can take a fragment of a NSF. You can take an Aquila Kill-Team with just the Veteran squad. Woo.), a nerf (0-1 cap on almost all henchmen, 2.5x cost on psyker henchmen, -3 fire points on Inquisitorial Chimeras), or stupid (Empty Valkyries, Enginseers in a Cult Mechanicus supplement with AdMech-locked abilities...).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pouncey wrote:

 BBAP wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
That said, I have a question about the Exorcist.

Can it finally target enemy tanks, or is the universal house rule for Exorcists allowing it a 360 degree sphere of LoS going to be in effect for years more at the least?

Since when could the Exorcist not target enemy tanks?

Since its only weapon was fixed in place and aimed straight upward, making the vehicle weapon rules give it a 45 degree cone of fire straight upward.

The fact it rains its rockets down from above was never represented anywhere in the rules themselves.

Can we please not get into the argument about just how terrible GW's writers are at defining line of sight again?

(If you play LoS strictly-as-written to the point that people are claiming an Exorcist can't shoot anything you're also reading it strictly enough that a sponson gun has 360-degree LOS but ignores cover when shooting targets on the wrong side of the tank.)

There is no 0-1 cap on any henchmen. When included in a warband formation, they are referring to units, not 0-1 models (note that they refer to page #s, as in "Go to this page # and use this datasheet).

Additionally, acolytes got cheaper armor as well as inquisitors, jokaero got a substantial buff, coteaz now gives everything obsec, all psyk-out equipment got a massive buff which means all grenades, orbital bombardments, condemnor boltguns, and ordo xenos now has a free force weapon rather than just a sword. Slight buffs, but enough to make all inquisitors except the vanilla ordo malleus (who's just flatly outshone by coteaz sadly) attractive options and, honestly, giving me a hard time deciding who I'll choose to bring along. Ordo Xenos is the most attractive for fluffy allies (prefer Deathwatch to Grey Knights and sisters models are expensive as hell) but ordo hereticus has a number of great answers to the psyker-heavy meta I'm dealing with at present and I'm tempted to bring him with condemnor and orbital, some sisters featuring condemnors, and a culexus just to totally beat down psyker heavy armies and finally have some counterplay to that B.S.

beyond that, save for the aeronautica detachment, ALL the small allied detachments added in have great uses for at least one army. Techpriests for the obvious cult mechanicus force, Astropaths do wonders for I.G. giving them a real psychic presence, Grey Knights get cheaper dreadknights, Deathwatch can now be added to any army for zero tax, assassins are the same but hey rules in print and in one place are nice, and sisters units got marginally better as a whole even though they lost celestine (protip: if you want to bring her, look on page 37 where it says this book is designed to be used in conjunction with the digital codexes. RAW there seems to be no reason for her NOT to be a legal HQ choice for the sisters if you have the old rules as well.)

 Pouncey wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
IIRC the Aquila is the high end shuttle for all imperial officers, notables etc.

In this case its a Deathwatch kill team.

Okay then. I was mistaken. Sorry.

Couldn't they have just called it a "Deathwatch Kill-Team" though? Why the Aquila part?

There are six "Deathwatch Kill-Teams". One each that gets to reroll all to-wound/AP rolls against one FOC slot (HQ/Elites/Troops/FA/HS), and the Aquila team that just gets to reroll ones to wound against everyone.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
IIRC the Aquila is the high end shuttle for all imperial officers, notables etc.

In this case its a Deathwatch kill team.

Okay then. I was mistaken. Sorry.

Couldn't they have just called it a "Deathwatch Kill-Team" though? Why the Aquila part?

There are six "Deathwatch Kill-Teams". One each that gets to reroll all to-wound/AP rolls against one FOC slot (HQ/Elites/Troops/FA/HS), and the Aquila team that just gets to reroll ones to wound against everyone.

That sounds kinda silly when they could've accomplished the same thing by making you pick from among those options at some point during the game without requiring six separate units.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
IIRC the Aquila is the high end shuttle for all imperial officers, notables etc.

In this case its a Deathwatch kill team.

Okay then. I was mistaken. Sorry.

Couldn't they have just called it a "Deathwatch Kill-Team" though? Why the Aquila part?

There are six "Deathwatch Kill-Teams". One each that gets to reroll all to-wound/AP rolls against one FOC slot (HQ/Elites/Troops/FA/HS), and the Aquila team that just gets to reroll ones to wound against everyone.

actually...no, there aren't. The Aquila Doctrine is reroll 1s to wound/pen. Mission Tactics (which they do also get) are reroll 1s to hit vs a force org slot, which IIRC you pick when you arrive and cannot change unless you take a watch commander or a deathwatch detachment of some sort or something.

The only difference between the Kill Team presented in codex: IA and codex: Deathwatch is the dedicated transport options.

the_scotsman wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
IIRC the Aquila is the high end shuttle for all imperial officers, notables etc.

In this case its a Deathwatch kill team.

Okay then. I was mistaken. Sorry.

Couldn't they have just called it a "Deathwatch Kill-Team" though? Why the Aquila part?

There are six "Deathwatch Kill-Teams". One each that gets to reroll all to-wound/AP rolls against one FOC slot (HQ/Elites/Troops/FA/HS), and the Aquila team that just gets to reroll ones to wound against everyone.

actually...no, there aren't. The Aquila Doctrine is reroll 1s to wound/pen. Mission Tactics (which they do also get) are reroll 1s to hit vs a force org slot, which IIRC you pick when you arrive and cannot change unless you take a watch commander or a deathwatch detachment of some sort or something.

The only difference between the Kill Team presented in codex: IA and codex: Deathwatch is the dedicated transport options.

Veteran squads are presented in both books. The Aquila Kill team has a detachment in C:IA, and there are 6 kill team formations in CW, and annoyingly a Aquila Kill Team formation in the Deathwatch codex as well. Bonuses are pretty much the same, but there's less tax in the detachment

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Seraphim got better, unless you took them with Celestine.

What changed with them?

Their Act of Faith, though activated in the Shooting Phase, now applies for the entire turn, so they get Shred in the Assault Phase as well. This makes their melee attacks far more effective, although there's no useful way to give them Zealot/Hatred on top of that without reducing their movement to 6". (Though an allied psyker could throw Prescience on them, just like always.)

the_scotsman wrote:
...There is no 0-1 cap on any henchmen. When included in a warband formation, they are referring to units, not 0-1 models (note that they refer to page #s, as in "Go to this page # and use this datasheet).

Additionally, acolytes got cheaper armor as well as inquisitors, jokaero got a substantial buff, coteaz now gives everything obsec, all psyk-out equipment got a massive buff which means all grenades, orbital bombardments, condemnor boltguns, and ordo xenos now has a free force weapon rather than just a sword. Slight buffs, but enough to make all inquisitors except the vanilla ordo malleus (who's just flatly outshone by coteaz sadly) attractive options and, honestly, giving me a hard time deciding who I'll choose to bring along. Ordo Xenos is the most attractive for fluffy allies (prefer Deathwatch to Grey Knights and sisters models are expensive as hell) but ordo hereticus has a number of great answers to the psyker-heavy meta I'm dealing with at present and I'm tempted to bring him with condemnor and orbital, some sisters featuring condemnors, and a culexus just to totally beat down psyker heavy armies and finally have some counterplay to that B.S.

beyond that, save for the aeronautica detachment, ALL the small allied detachments added in have great uses for at least one army. Techpriests for the obvious cult mechanicus force, Astropaths do wonders for I.G. giving them a real psychic presence, Grey Knights get cheaper dreadknights, Deathwatch can now be added to any army for zero tax, assassins are the same but hey rules in print and in one place are nice, and sisters units got marginally better as a whole even though they lost celestine (protip: if you want to bring her, look on page 37 where it says this book is designed to be used in conjunction with the digital codexes. RAW there seems to be no reason for her NOT to be a legal HQ choice for the sisters if you have the old rules as well.)

Fact-checking, point-by-point:

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband, Codex: Inquisition: 3-12 models chosen in any combination from Acolytes, Arco-Flagellants, Crusaders, Daemonhosts, Death-Cult Assassins, Joakero Weaponsmiths, Ministorum Priests, Mystics, Psykers, Servitors.

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband, Codex: Imperial Agents: 3-9 Acolytes, 1 Inquisitor. May optionally add 0-1 Ministorum Priest, 2-10 Crusaders, 2-10 Death-Cult Assassins, 3-7 Arco-Flagellants, 0-6 Daemonhosts, 0-6 Joakero Weaponsmiths, 0-1 Astropath, 0-1 Tech-Priest Enginseer.

I will concede that the Priest and Astropath are the only ones who have actually been made 0-1. That said look at those two lists of options and tell me which one you'd rather try and build a unit out of.

As a secondary problem to the factions/Henchmen warbands consider, if you will, that Acolyte squads may not take any of their Dedicated Transports other than the Chimera in the Inquisitorial Representative detachment (as per the stipulation that the detachment contain only units with the Inquisition faction), and as per the latest FAQ there is a strong argument to be made that a Henchmen Warband formation isn't actually allowed to embark on its own Dedicated Transport unless it's a Chimera and the unit doesn't include any optional additions other than Daemonhosts and Joakero.

Psyk-out grenades and the Condemnor boltgun are copy-pasted from the current Inquisition Codex. I'm not sure what this 'massive buff' you're going on about is.

Acolytes do have cheaper armour, yes. A fake Inquisitorial Stormtrooper (carapace/hotshot) is now actually a point cheaper than the current Stormtroopers, who have +BS, Ld, Deep Strike, Move Through Cover, and the ability to accept Orders on him.

Joakero haven't changed in the slightest. I have no idea what this 'substantial buff' is.

Force Weapon instead of Force Sword is fixing *bleep*ing typo left over from when they copy-pasted the original Inquisition book over from the 5e GK book and forgot to look at it before hitting 'print'. If they really cared they'd have fixed power weapons too.

The allied detachments are the problem. This is a book written to make people who play Space Marines say "Hey, cool, I could get a psyker with a s***ier statline than a Librarian and no access to my cool powers that can't go in my Drop Pods for 10pts cheaper than a real one!" by giving them a free Warlord Trait for it. It turns the armies into useless one-trick gimmicks that are made irrelevant by more useful stuff in the proper Codexes, instead of actually doing anything useful or interesting with them.

As for cheaper Dreadknights, I'd love to hear your explanation of how 480pts (Nemesis Strike Force, two Dreadknights, a Librarian, and a Strike Squad) is more expensive than 480pts (two Daemonhunter Strike forces, a Dreadknight and a Strike Squad each). Once you've done that you might do me the courtesy of explaining why pushing the Codex F***ING Dreadknight approach instead of fixing the rest of the book is a positive step for Grey Knights, people with Grey Knight allies, or the game as a whole.

I'd love it if you would read the Codex before trying to opine on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 statu wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
IIRC the Aquila is the high end shuttle for all imperial officers, notables etc.

In this case its a Deathwatch kill team.

Okay then. I was mistaken. Sorry.

Couldn't they have just called it a "Deathwatch Kill-Team" though? Why the Aquila part?

There are six "Deathwatch Kill-Teams". One each that gets to reroll all to-wound/AP rolls against one FOC slot (HQ/Elites/Troops/FA/HS), and the Aquila team that just gets to reroll ones to wound against everyone.

actually...no, there aren't. The Aquila Doctrine is reroll 1s to wound/pen. Mission Tactics (which they do also get) are reroll 1s to hit vs a force org slot, which IIRC you pick when you arrive and cannot change unless you take a watch commander or a deathwatch detachment of some sort or something.

The only difference between the Kill Team presented in codex: IA and codex: Deathwatch is the dedicated transport options.

Veteran squads are presented in both books. The Aquila Kill team has a detachment in C:IA, and there are 6 kill team formations in CW, and annoyingly a Aquila Kill Team formation in the Deathwatch codex as well. Bonuses are pretty much the same, but there's less tax in the detachment

(By the 25pts it takes to get an extra Vanguard Veteran, for those keeping score.)