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Ceann wrote:
the blight grenades entry permits them to access assault and defensive grenade rules.

The C:CSM Codex does not provide an explicit reference to the BRB here.

So, the C:CSM Codex reader knows about and accesses the section on Grenades in the BRB to find the rules for assault and defensive grenades on his own without explicit reference given by the Codex, correct?

In other words, a Codex reader knows about and has access to the advanced rules in the BRB (including the advanced rules for Grenades), correct?

It does Col I am sorry.

They count as assault grenades.

*Assault grenades

Rules for the following grenades can be found in the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook:
Frag grenades*
* See assault grenades
Krak grenades
Melta bombs

Ceann wrote:
It does Col I am sorry.

They count as assault grenades.

*Assault grenades

Rules for the following grenades can be found in the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook:
Frag grenades*
* See assault grenades
Krak grenades
Melta bombs

The asterix applies to Frag grenades.

Are Blight grenades described as Frag grenades, Krak grenades, or Melta Bombs? If they are not then Blight grenades do not have an explicit reference to the BRB.

And, Ceanne, are you going to just forget about the defensive grenades abilities?

Are you seriously proposing that Blight grenades do not have defensive grenades ability???

No Col, not at all.
You are trying to play word games again.

You forget that you take Blight Grenades as an option on your army list entry.

Since they count as assault and defensive grenades you have permission because they are on your list entry to apply those rules.

You seemed to have a misunderstanding about why Frag Grenades were present so I was clarifying it.

Ceann wrote:
No Col, not at all.
You are trying to play word games again.

You forget that you take Blight Grenades as an option on your army list entry.

Since they count as assault and defensive grenades you have permission because they are on your list entry to apply those rules.

The C:CSM Codex does not provide an explicit reference to the BRB to assault or defensive grenades in the case of Blight grenades.

So, the C:CSM Codex reader knows about and accesses the section on Grenades in the BRB to find the rules for assault and defensive grenades on his own without explicit reference given by the Codex, correct?

In other words, a Codex reader knows about and has access to the advanced rules in the BRB (including the advanced rules for Grenades), correct?

Is anyone else learning how these rules work for the first time?
I can start a class.

Can we talk about rad grenades yet?

Ceann wrote:
Is anyone else learning how these rules work for the first time?
I can start a class.

Can we talk about rad grenades yet?

Answer the questions.

The C:CSM Codex does not provide an explicit reference to the BRB to assault or defensive grenades in the case of Blight grenades.

So, the C:CSM Codex reader knows about and accesses the section on Grenades in the BRB to find the rules for assault and defensive grenades on his own without explicit reference given by the Codex, correct?

In other words, a Codex reader knows about and has access to the advanced rules in the BRB (including the advanced rules for Grenades), correct?

Col.

Dear Col,

The basic vs advanced rules state that the codex and the army list entry's have precedence.

The army list entry tells me I can select blight grenades, so I do.
The codex rules for blight grenades tell me they count as assault and defensive grenades.

Therefore assault and defensive grenades are related to blight grenades on my army list entry.

I have permission to access assault and defensive grenades because my codex told me blight grenades count as those.

Ceann wrote:
Col.

Dear Col,

The basic vs advanced rules state that the codex and the army list entry's have precedence.

The army list entry tells me I can select blight grenades, so I do.
The codex rules for blight grenades tell me they count as assault and defensive grenades.

Therefore assault and defensive grenades are related to blight grenades on my army list entry.

I have permission to access assault and defensive grenades because my codex told me blight grenades count as those.

Why aren't you answering these straightforward questions?

So, the C:CSM Codex reader knows about and accesses the section on Grenades in the BRB to find the rules for assault and defensive grenades on his own without explicit reference given by the Codex, correct?

In other words, a Codex reader knows about and has access to the advanced rules in the BRB (including the advanced rules for Grenades), correct?

Where are we told that grenades are advanced rules?
Advanced rules are special rules, grenades are no special rules.



These are the rules I am following Col.

Basic vs Advanced
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise.They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale.

I do not see grenades there, lets continue.

Ceann wrote:
Where are we told that grenades are advanced rules?

What sections of the BRB contain basic rules?

What sections of the BRB contain advanced rules?

What sections of the BRB contain special rules?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ceann wrote:

Advanced rules are special rules, grenades are no special rules.

So, according to you, advanced rules is synonymous with special rules and the only place where we will find them is in the special rules section?

Maybe you should check the index?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me help you out Col.

Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules. For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence.

You see? advanced rule is being used as another term for special rule. They are the same thing.

All special rules are presented in the special rules section of the BRB.

Ceann wrote:
Maybe you should check the index?

Why are you having trouble with simple questions?

It's important that this thread knows exactly what you mean by 'advanced rules'.

You really should read the entire Basic vs Advanced box it has a lot of helpful information.

Can we talk about rad grenades yet?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I...?

I don't mean anything Col.

I am doing exactly what the rules state on Basic vs Advanced.


Let me help you out Col.

Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules. For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence.

You see? advanced rule is being used as another term for special rule. They are the same thing.

All special rules are presented in the special rules section of the BRB.

Ceann wrote:

Let me help you out Col.

Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules. For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence.

You see? advanced rule is being used as another term for special rule. They are the same thing.

All special rules are presented in the special rules section of the BRB.

So what kind of rule is the Jet Pack rule?

It's not a basic rule. It's not a special rule according to you since it does not appear in the Special Rules section.

Basic vs Advanced "you should really read this"

Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale.

I am not sure there is a rule called "Jet Pack"

The movement rules for models in jetpack units can be found on page 66 of the BRB, we know about jetpack units from the army list entry of our jetpack unit, such as assault marines.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can we talk about rad grenades yet?
What do jump pack units have to do with rad grenades?
Can an inquisitor take a jump pack now?

Ceann wrote:
Basic vs Advanced "you should really read this"

Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale.

I am not sure there is a rule called "Jet Pack"

The movement rules for models in jetpack units can be found on page 66 of the BRB, we know about jetpack units from the army list entry of our jetpack unit, such as assault marines.

Page 66 is not a basic rule section. The rules on page 66 do not apply to all models in the game. Page 66 is also not in the special rules section.

Jet Pack unit type is not a basic rule and it's not a special rule. So what kind of rule is it? Same thing with Skyborne and Thrust move - what kind of rules are those?

Oh col! You shouldn't have my dear.

Advanced rules apply to specific types of models.
Lets take a look at units that are not normal infantry models.

Hmmm Jetpack units hmmm yes.

Special rules - Jet Pack units have the Bulky, Deepstrike and Relentless special rules.

Hm ok Beasts now.

Special Rules - Beasts have the Fleet special rule.

Calvary?
Fleet and hammer of wrath?

Do I need to continue or are you still playing word soup?
The advanced rules for different unit types are listed on those unit type pages.

Page 66 includes the movement rules that apply to ALL models for this unit type.

Jet Pack is a type of unit Col.

As they are not infantry they automatically have certain special rules, sorry, "advanced rules" that are all presented in the special rules section of the BRB.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules. For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence.

That is from basic vs advanced Col.
The section I have been telling you to read.
Can you read the section Col.
Pretty please,
With a cherry on top?

And come back when you actually have a relevant argument instead of taking a tommy gun style of asking silly questions hoping one finds a crack?

What kind of rules are Skyborne, Thrust Move, Flight Modes, Swooping Hunters, Hard to Hit, Leaving Combat Airspace, Grounded Tests, Stomp, Unstoppable, all the vehicle rules, the character rules? None of these rules are basic or special.

Those rules all pertain to movement, shooting and close combat, Col.

Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Are you done with word soup?
Can we talk about rad grenades?

Or do you need more help with basic rules first?

Ceann wrote:
Those rules all pertain to movement Col.

Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale.

Basic rules apply to all models in the game.

So Skyborne, Thrust Move, Flight Modes, Swooping Hunters, Hard to Hit, Leaving Combat Airspace, Grounded Tests, Stomp, Unstoppable, all the vehicle rules, and the character rules are basic rules and apply to all models?

My Warrior model can Stomp now?

Movement rules apply to all models in the game.
The unit type determines which movement rules you use, which is stated on the Army List Entry.

Are you done with word soup?
Can we talk about rad grenades?

Or do you need more help with basic rules first?

Ceann wrote:
Movement rules apply to all models in the game.
The unit type determines which movement rules you use, which is stated on the Army List Entry.

Are you done with word soup?
Can we talk about rad grenades?

Or do you need more help with basic rules first?

So the unit type rules, the vehicle rules, and the character rules are not basic rules.

What kind of rules are they?

How are they not basic rules Col?

Are you done with word soup?
Can we talk about rad grenades?

Or do you need more help with basic rules first?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If they are not listed in the special rules section of the BRB where all special rules are presented, then they are a basic rules.

Ceann wrote:
How are they not basic rules Col?

Are you done with word soup?
Can we talk about rad grenades?

Or do you need more help with basic rules first?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If they are not listed in the special rules section of the BRB where all special rules are presented, then they are a basic rules.

So my Warrior model has all these rules? Skyborne, Thrust Move, Flight Modes, Swooping Hunters, Hard to Hit, Leaving Combat Airspace, Grounded Tests, Stomp, Unstoppable, all the vehicle rules, and the character rules.

What about the psychic rules? What kind of rules are those?

Advanced rules apply to specific types of models.

Remember how beasts have fleet Col?

That is an advanced rule that applys to a specific type of model.

Whether they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun) a combi weapon is a boltgun that has special rules. A melta gun is a weapon that has special rules.

Unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate) IWND.

Do I need to explain characters and tanks too or you got it now?

All of the types of things being referred to here are located in the special rules section where all special rules are presented.

Are you done with word soup?
Can we talk about rad grenades?

Or do you need more help with basic rules first?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why would your Warrior model have all of those Col.
What does his Army List Entry say he is as a unit?
Since you are talking about something from a codex.

Ceann wrote:
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models.

Remember how beasts have fleet Col?

That is an advanced rule that applys to a specific type of model.

Whether they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun) a combi weapon is a boltgun that has special rules. A melta gun is a weapon that has special rules.

Unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate) IWND.

Do I need to explain characters and tanks too or you got it now?

All of the types of things being referred to here are located in the special rules section where all special rules are presented.

Are you done with word soup?
Can we talk about rad grenades?

Or do you need more help with basic rules first?

Ah ok, so Skyborne, Thrust Move, Flight Modes, Swooping Hunters, Hard to Hit, Leaving Combat Airspace, Grounded Tests, Stomp, Unstoppable, all the vehicle rules, and the character rules are all Advanced Rules that apply to specific kinds of models, correct?

And 'boltgun' is an Advanced Rule since its a special kind of weapon, correct?

So, basically any rule that specifies something beyond the basic movement, shooting, close combat, and morale rules that all infantry share is an Advanced Rule, correct?

No Col, they are basic rules.
They apply to units of a particular type.
Our army list entry tells us what our unit type is.
We use the unit type to ensure we use those rules for our model.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
No col "boltgun" is not an advanced rule.
All advanced rules are located in the special rules section of the BRB where all special rules are presented.

We know that advanced rules are special rules in basic vs advanced.

For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence.


Are you done with word soup?
Or trying to break the entire game?
Can we talk about rad grenades yet?

Or do you need more help with basic rules first?

Ceann wrote:
No Col, they are basic rules.
They apply to units of a particular type.
Our army list entry tells us what our unit type is.
We use the unit type to ensure we use those rules for our model.

Basic rules apply to all models in the game.

Those rules would be in the Core Rules, Models and Units, General Principles, the Turn, the Movement Phase, the Shooting Phase, Weapons, the Assault Phase, and Morale sections.

The Unit Type rules, vehicle rules, and character rules do not apply to all models in the game.

I am glad that you understand that basic rules apply to all models in the game.

Can we talk about rad grenades now or did you have more questions that have nothing to do with rad grenades?