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A few months ago, I purchased a Warlord Titan from Forge World. When the kit arrived, everything was there. It was a joy to work on and assemble. (http://titanownersclub.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/warlord-titan-no418-celestial-wrath-tba.html)
I commissioned the painting to be done by a local painter. The painter stopped accepting projects, so their calendar would be clear and they could paint the titan in a month.
The model was completely assembled before going to the painter, but the armor plates where then removed for easier painting.
I dropped off everything to my painter.

A month later, I'm given some bad news. One of the armor plates is missing.
They searched their studio. I searched my house. The armor plate is gone (part 44, chest plate). The model and its parts were only ever in a few rooms. With those rooms being searched top to bottom.

I decide to place an order with Forge World, some books, and decide to give them a call to see if they can add in another armor plate to my recent order . I tell Forge World that the Warlord did arrive intact. As I am not going to lie and possibly have someone, who did their job correctly, be accused of doing their job wrong. The employee who I'm working with on the phone states that Forge World will not send, or sell, a replacement part. Though the employee does find a bin with odd Warlord parts in it, and tries to find a chest plate. But no luck. And due to Forge World policy, they cannot cast a new part for me.



This, is disheartening.
It feels like there is no way to obtain this missing part, other then to either lie to Forge World (when they did their job correctly) or buy an entire new kit.
Tossing blame between me or my artist for loosing the part will not help, as I value that relationship, and it wont solve the issue.

The most realistic hope I have, is for Forge World to make an exception and cast the replacement part. For £900 model, I would hope this situation would fall under "can make and exception" category.

So do I bombard Forge World with emails and phone calls? Or do I give up on obtaining the missing part?

In August I received the Warlord for my winter charity army. (this one, go donate! http://events.doctorswithoutborders.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=donorDrive.personalCampaign&participantID=3782) Because I was working on a commission, I didnt open it until two weeks later.

I found that every box was present except it had no instructions or 'Checked by' slip in the big red Forge World box. No big deal, I call and they were able to get me a PDF of the instructions online.

I go to start assembly when I realize, my god this thing is missing like half of the parts! I go through and check off everything missing, basically half of the Warlord body is not in there.

I email them about it and give them the full list of parts missing, and within a few hours I get an email back saying the parts are on their way.

They arrive along with an actual manual within a few days (from the UK no less!) and I again set to working on assembly. To my horror, I realize that I had left out a few plates in the original list (I was using the PDF to check off parts, and the PDF was not a complete set of instructions). Using the actual manual, I find that I had left out two vents, two arm plates and a center plate. I email them, saying basically my bad and I hate to bother you, and again without any hesitation I get the same email back saying the parts are on their way.

Sure enough they arrive just as fast as the other ones.

So my Forgeworld experience with missing parts is, if it is their fault, its on them. They didnt try to in any way skirt the blame or issue, they just handled it professionally and immediately, they didnt even want to talk on the phone. When I realized I had left parts out of that list, I felt like an idiot but knew that hey, had they correctly packed the warlord in the first place, this would have never happened. I guess they followed the same logic, because they handled it again immediately and professionally.

In your case, it sounds like they have a clear black and white 'this is not our fault' line in the sand that they draw. In all regards, its not on them, even with the kit being that massive and expensive. I just wanted to share my story because it might give some clarity into how they make their decisions.

Also, I could be the reason they are no longer as helpful with Warlord customers. : /




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh BTW here's another one, about four months ago a client ordered a Mastodon and had it shipped directly to me from FW. There was a part missing, one of the gun barrels for the AA thing up top. I called FW, and even though I was not the owner, all they had me do was have the client send the receipt (via email) with the order #, then had me take a pic of the Mastodon manual with the missing part and my initials, as well as the 'checked by' slip. They were very polite about it and sent the part just as quickly.

So thats two "FW and missing parts" tales that I have. I think again, its because you said that it was all there and now its not...they must ride that policy very hard and I get that from a business perspective. But they werent jerks about it with me, they didnt act suspicious or troubled, just the same kind customer service I normally get with FW.

You're a better man than me.....I would be on the phone a week later telling them they didn't send it.

I order a the volkite leman russ and it was missing part of the cuppola - an email got the missing part sent out.

Honestly, I'd just tell them the part is missing. Their policy is frustrating - I had to resort to ebay for some parts recently, despite placing large orders. They routinely replace parts, and if your painter is missing it, have him email them with the missing part and order number and they'll replace it right away.

Fwiw, no one will get in trouble for replacing it at FW, if anything it's uncommon not to have a defective or missing part Somewhere in a large order from them, which is why they're so adept at replacements!

not FW but about 5 years ago I somehow managed to get a land raider without lascannons in the box, sent an email to gw, they sent me a whole land raider, not complaining, but I had a land raider for ages with no sponsons all built and painted, always found that funny.

I was painting a night lords contemptor for someone. I lost the head , gave them a email saying what had happened they cast one up and sent it out free within a week

Sounds like the OP had the bad luck of calling up and talking to the one person who is a stickler for following policy.

That does sound unfortunate, particularly if you offered to pay for the replacement part. You could always try to find someone who would 3D print you a replacement or something. Only solution I can think of.

For the record I'm not advocating copying/etc. but replacing a missing piece on a 200+ piece model is where I'd accept someone knocking out a quick replacement piece if you don't have another option.

I think I am going to have to agree with FW policy on this one. Either live with the model the way it is, figure out a replacement part on your own, or call out the painter on his error and make it his problem.

It's like the time I got my custom car painted. The guy at the shop sat in my leather seats and put a hole in it with a tool that poked out of his pocket. I didn't make the upholsterer fix it for free, I make the body shop cover it.

I know you said not to throw blame at your painter, as you value that relationship. However, he should value the relationship as well and own up to it if it was his fault.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I think I am going to have to agree with FW policy on this one. Either live with the model the way it is, figure out a replacement part on your own, or call out the painter on his error and make it his problem.

It's like the time I got my custom car painted. The guy at the shop sat in my leather seats and put a hole in it with a tool that poked out of his pocket. I didn't make the upholsterer fix it for free, I make the body shop cover it.

I know you said not to throw blame at your painter, as you value that relationship. However, he should value the relationship as well and own up to it if it was his fault.

This. Your painter screwed up and ruined your expensive titan kit, your painter gets to pay the price (whatever it may be) of fixing it. Valuing a relationship doesn't mean writing off $1000+ because you're too afraid to say anything, even when you're 100% right.

I understand them not covering a part you lost, but to not even sell you a replacement is baffling.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I understand them not covering a part you lost, but to not even sell you a replacement is baffling.

IIRC it's a result of how the casting process is set up, casting single replacements to sell takes only a little less effort than casting a whole kit. So why spend the effort to sell one piece at significantly less than the price of a whole kit when you can cast a whole kit that will sell for full price? They have to do it when they're replacing missing or miscast parts because they're obligated to fix a defective product, but it doesn't make much sense to get into the single-part business.

That's a pretty crappy situation, You could try ringing on a different day and hope you get a different person or hope they've added to the "Warlord Bitz Box".

The Warlord seems to have a huge number of parts, I would have thought it common for people to not notice a part is missing immediately but notice 6 months down the track.

cuda1179 wrote:I think I am going to have to agree with FW policy on this one. Either live with the model the way it is, figure out a replacement part on your own, or call out the painter on his error and make it his problem.

It's like the time I got my custom car painted. The guy at the shop sat in my leather seats and put a hole in it with a tool that poked out of his pocket. I didn't make the upholsterer fix it for free, I make the body shop cover it.

I know you said not to throw blame at your painter, as you value that relationship. However, he should value the relationship as well and own up to it if it was his fault.

Your analogy is flawed. This is more like your upholsterer doing 6 seats in your car, the car painter punching a hole in one seat and then your upholsterer saying they won't fix that one seat for you.

Peregrine wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I understand them not covering a part you lost, but to not even sell you a replacement is baffling.

IIRC it's a result of how the casting process is set up, casting single replacements to sell takes only a little less effort than casting a whole kit. So why spend the effort to sell one piece at significantly less than the price of a whole kit when you can cast a whole kit that will sell for full price?

I think that argument would only apply to smaller kits. That might make sense for, I dunno, a box of DKOK infantry or a tank upgrade kit where they possibly do the entire kit in one or two castings and/or it would interrupt their production line significantly to only cast 1 part, but a whole Warlord titan? Just looking at the pictures, without counting it looks like 100+ parts.

It doesn't mean a single piece should cost one hundredth of the whole kit, but I seriously doubt it'd only be a "little less effort" to cast up the missing part. We're talking a £1250 kit here, even if the replacement costs £100-200 (which would be, what, around a full day's wage for 1 person? You can't tell me it'd take a full day's worth of work for 1 person to cast up the required part) it's still a hell of a lot better than having to buy a whole bloody titan to get 1 part.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Your analogy is flawed. This is more like your upholsterer doing 6 seats in your car, the car painter punching a hole in one seat and then your upholsterer saying they won't fix that one seat for you.

And in that case the conclusion is still the same: the painter is responsible for the damage, the painter pays. Why should the upholsterer have to do free work to cover for someone else's mistake? At most they should fix the hole and then bill the painter for it at their standard rate.

We're talking a £1250 kit here, even if the replacement costs £100-200 (which would be, what, around a full day's wage for 1 person? You can't tell me it'd take a full day's worth of work for 1 person to cast up the required part) it's still a hell of a lot better than having to buy a whole bloody titan to get 1 part.

Sure, it starts to make sense if you're willing to charge that much for a single piece, but it's much easier to just have a "no individual parts sales" policy than to deal with everyone who wants to call and try to negotiate a specific deal. And, again, this is not FW's fault at all. They provided a complete kit, it isn't reasonable to expect them to take responsibility for fixing the customer's mistakes. Is it frustrating to deal with? Sure, but that's why you don't let people handle your expensive FW kits unless they accept full financial responsibility for buying a new kit if anything is lost or damaged.

Just to clarify. The armor plate went missing after they were removed. I do not know if it was before arriving to the studio or after. So the fault for the missing part could be mine as well. The armor plate box sat for several weeks before leaving my place for the painters, I dropped it off believing everything made it to their studio. I did not think to double check the box. So I cant place blame squarely on my painter.

 Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Your analogy is flawed. This is more like your upholsterer doing 6 seats in your car, the car painter punching a hole in one seat and then your upholsterer saying they won't fix that one seat for you.

And in that case the conclusion is still the same: the painter is responsible for the damage, the painter pays. Why should the upholsterer have to do free work to cover for someone else's mistake? At most they should fix the hole and then bill the painter for it at their standard rate.

Sorry I should have added the line...

"....and then your upholsterer saying they won't fix that one seat for you even if you offer to pay for it"

Sure, it starts to make sense if you're willing to charge that much for a single piece, but it's much easier to just have a "no individual parts sales" policy than to deal with everyone who wants to call and try to negotiate a specific deal. And, again, this is not FW's fault at all. They provided a complete kit, it isn't reasonable to expect them to take responsibility for fixing the customer's mistakes. Is it frustrating to deal with? Sure, but that's why you don't let people handle your expensive FW kits unless they accept full financial responsibility for buying a new kit if anything is lost or damaged.

Sure, they don't have to.... it's just gak customer service. It'd be like breaking the $30 DVD drive in your $2000 laptop and the manufacturer saying "sorry, we don't sell components individually because it'd mean we'd have to over manufacture/interrupt a production line".

When you get to the point of paying more than £1000 for a kit made of 100+ parts you start to expect some level of customer service.

I'm not arguing by law they have to replace the part, of course they don't, I'm not arguing they should do it for free.... but to have a flat out "no we won't help you" policy on such an expensive kit is *TERRIBLE* customer service. Even just doing what I said which is to say they won't replace a part for less than half a day to a day's wage for a worker would mean they're still making money off replacing parts while not completely nuking customer satisfaction.

 Igenstilch wrote:
Just to clarify. The armor plate went missing after they were removed. I do not know if it was before arriving to the studio or after. So the fault for the missing part could be mine as well. The armor plate box sat for several weeks before leaving my place for the painters, I dropped it off believing everything made it to their studio. I did not think to double check the box. So I cant place blame squarely on my painter.

You obviously can't afford to buy another titan for one armor panel - I would just try customer service again, or have your painter do so. It really should be easily resolved, they cast up replacements literally every day!

The problem was probably when they heard that it's actually not their fault because then they have no obligations to give out or even sell you replacement parts. Unfortunately it seems the only real way to get it is to catch the right guy at the right time who decides to help out anyway for the sake of just being nice really.

I've had all sorts of FW parts replaced. Some times they're not all that careful about how they package the parcels, with hardly any insulating material, and every fragile part crushed by the 100 gram tank hull part. I've had a complete set of Krieg entrenchment tools replaced, because I opened the bag only to find a handful of broken spades at the bottom.

I've also had to request replacements for items which weren't included in my order for unknown reasons, like when I received only 9 of the 10 Krieg guardsmen I had ordered. The last time something like this happened to me, I only received 4 of the 5 sets of SM shoulder pads I had ordered, and FW requested that I photographed the contents of my order, the packaging and the documentation. I didn't really understand why that was necessary, seeing how I couldn't possibly use the photo to prove that something was missing, because you can't take a photo of something which isn't there, - but I still received the 5th set of shoulder pads.

I'd like to think, that by now I have a ton of experience with FW, their kits and dealing with them, and I still don't understand the argument that they can't recast single parts, without having to cast a complete kit/ set of parts. Most of my kits have seemingly consisted of a number of sprues, which presumably could be cast independently of each other. In some cases the sprues are fairly generic, and turns up in several different kits, which is the case with the Krieg equipment sprues.

It's in FW's interest to cultivate good customer relationships, and having a proper replacement part service seems like an obvious approach to me. It's not like they're really selling unique art objects, and they already have the production equipment enabling them to make to order. They could easily profit from such an arrangement, if they wanted to.

My own company's policy is we cover missing parts out of the box within 30 days then after that out of the box issues are good wills at our discretion. If the customer themselves loose the part then its not covered.

We however aren't making the parts from scratch, so I can raise a purchase order for parts at cost. The service agent on their end at least checked the floor for spares, but that was unlikely - even for a bad cast.

This isn't just casting a single part. Its necessary for them to cast a whole plate, which is only done for made to order items in the first place. That's a theorethical loss to Forgeworld of a couple hundred quid of stock for one spare part.


I had a similar issue myself a while back with Warlord Games. There was a set of Tiger II tracks - from a made to order kit - which I had used to make another model. I'm sure there's not much actually involved on a paperwork side of things (hell from my experience custom orders are just another checkbox and an extra form - plus the hassle involved with taking credit details), but its outside of usual process, so a no no. In that case though the service agent sent me the parts, presumably because they mentioned the circumstances to their L2 and made them chuckle (and some extra legwork over some simple paperwork can pay off dividends when it comes to customer satisfaction surveys).

The agent could give a flat no at the door based on policy, or speak to a higher up and get a no - because they didn't feel like it that day. That Warlord kit was a £27 plate (if that), not £900 (though presumably split up into maybe a half dozen) however. Myself, I'll do more than most when it comes to good will cases, but the price margin is probably more than an L2 could bare under the circumstances.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Sorry I should have added the line...

"....and then your upholsterer saying they won't fix that one seat for you even if you offer to pay for it"

The difference is that the upholsterer (presumably) offers the single-seat repair job as a normal service, so all you're doing is making a normal purchase from them. FW doesn't normally offer sales of single parts, so you're asking them to make a special deal with you to cover for someone else's mistake.

When you get to the point of paying more than £1000 for a kit made of 100+ parts you start to expect some level of customer service.

You get some level of customer service. If anything is wrong with that £1000 kit's 100+ parts they'll send you a replacement every time, at no extra cost. Declining to make a special deal to give you something extra isn't terrible customer service, it's just not exceptionally amazing customer service.

And really, where do you draw the line? What if I lose a part to my £150 tank kit and want a replacement? Why should you get a replacement titan part while all I get is "sucks to be you, try not to lose pieces"? Or what if I just want to buy an alternate turret for some conversion work? If they're willing to sell you an extra titan piece at a reasonable price then why can't they cast an extra turret for me and sell it at a similar price? It's much easier to draw a firm line at "we'll replace anything that's our fault, but we don't sell individual parts".

 n0t_u wrote:
Unfortunately it seems the only real way to get it is to catch the right guy at the right time who decides to help out anyway for the sake of just being nice really.

Yeah, that's probably why it's worth just ringing them up again a different day. From the sounds of things they have a bits box of Warlord parts and maybe if you try again after some amount of time, the piece you want will have fallen in to the bits box and you might get lucky.

 Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Sorry I should have added the line...

"....and then your upholsterer saying they won't fix that one seat for you even if you offer to pay for it"

The difference is that the upholsterer (presumably) offers the single-seat repair job as a normal service, so all you're doing is making a normal purchase from them. FW doesn't normally offer sales of single parts, so you're asking them to make a special deal with you to cover for someone else's mistake.

Well it wasn't my analogy to start with, I was just bringing it more in line with what actually happened. You have to imagine it's some upholster who refuses to just repair 1 bit and only works in redoing whole cars or something

And FW are in the business of casting resin parts which they sell, usually in bundles which make up a kit, but it's hardly a stretch for them to cast up 1 part and then sell it. I've had to get replacement * plastic sprues* for kits from other manufacturer's and that's a way bigger deal because of the nature of casting plastic bits where as casting a resin bit doesn't really mess up your production line all that much.

Declining to make a special deal to give you something extra isn't terrible customer service, it's just not exceptionally amazing customer service.

Agree to disagree bro.

And really, where do you draw the line?

You make it sound like it's really fething complicated. You just guesstimate that it's going to be X hours work as a flat fee to interrupt your regular production line (and you obviously over estimate so it doesn't end up coming out of FW's pocket), you see what other parts have to be cast at the same time*** and charge that price. If that means recasting the turret for your £150 tank kit becomes unfeasible, then you just tell your customer that it would cost more to recast that one piece than buying a whole new kit. However on a £1250 kit it's still likely going to be much more reasonable than replacing the whole fething kit.

There's no fuzzy moral line here, you calculate the cold hard numbers and that sets your line for you.

***(I don't know if they spin cast any resin at FW, I don't believe they do, but if they do they'll have to cast all the parts that are part of that mould so that would be included in the price).

It's much easier to draw a firm line at "we'll replace anything that's our fault, but we don't sell individual parts".

It's easier, but stupid and crappy. Sometimes it's better NOT to just default to the easiest thing to do, ya know?

Again, I'm not saying they HAVE to replace the part, I'm saying they SHOULD especially if the customer is willing to pay for it.

I know that FW is its own business, but as a subsidiary of GW, a company that, despite all the flak it gets, has a good record of excellent customer service, it seems a little weird that they have such a tight line on this kind of request. Ultimately, fulfilling a special request such as this wouldn't cost FW in the long run, even if casting the specific part would be quite an inconvenience; customers will always be more motivated to shop with you again if you go above and beyond what they expect from you, after all.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
This isn't just casting a single part. Its necessary for them to cast a whole plate, which is only done for made to order items in the first place. That's a theorethical loss to Forgeworld of a couple hundred quid of stock for one spare part.

I don't actually think FW cast tremendously large "plates" of parts, especially not of large parts like the chest plate of a Warlord titan. But even if they do, they can just tell the customer that and pass the costs along. I also seriously doubt it'd be a couple of hundred quid because of the nature of resin casting, the more you try and do in one hit the more it costs you when you miscast (if it cost them 200 quid to cast a certain part as a one off then it'd only take a few miscasts to entirely blow their profit margin on a kit).

Miscasts aren't a rare thing, in their general operation they have to account for the odd part being fethed up and needing to be binned, the costs of those miscasts are usually tied up in the total cost of a kit but if the customer lost a part you just treat it the same as a miscast but pass the costs along to the customer.

Agreed - if you've ever seen resin casting done in person, you'd know they're not casting all the huge armor plates in a single mold. It's just not how it's done, as you'd have the exact problem referenced here - one small error in a single piece and you'd have to cast them ALL again. You might make a multi cavity mold, but it might just be copies of the same armor plate, or a few - but not all of them or anything close to it.

It's an easy call to replace it and I'm sure they will if you persist. Try again with an actual phone call (not email!) after the holidays, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised and it will be worth the small charge for the call by comparison! I've heard this works wonders and will likely let you get a fresh (and more understanding) person's take on it

Agreed, calling is always better, especially now that Forge World has an actual crew of trained help desk personal manning the desk instead of one overworked bloke who apologises a million times and still doesn't fix things.

As I've said already, I imagine casting replacement parts to order, would have been both feasible and beneficial for FW.

I get that they might not want to be in the business of selling spare parts for people to use in conversions and similar projects, and how it might potentially compete with their standard products. So if someone is after a specific part, they'd rather sell the kit that include the part, than just the part itself.

The obvious solution then, is to only offer a replacement part service to customers who've already purchased the complete kit, which is easy to certify by order number.

 Zingraff wrote:
The obvious solution then, is to only offer a replacement part service to customers who've already purchased the complete kit, which is easy to certify by order number.

That's exactly how I'd envisage it. Just tell your customer it'll be a month or so before they get their replacement so that you can schedule it in with your regular casting process, instead of casting 10 Warlord chest plates, you cast 11 (which frankly they probably do 12 or 13 anyway with the number of miscasts they produce ).

Granted I also think they could probably make a lot of money on a parts making business too, just charge enough for the parts that if you need more than a few parts from a kit you might as well buy the whole kit. Resin bits are quite well suited to a made-to-order business model (compared to metal which is typically spin casting and thus requires you to make a whole wheel of parts or plastic where setting up the mould plates in an injection moulding machine is time consuming and not worth it if you're not going to cast a whole pile of them).

100% behind FW here. they provided the item intact and in good quality, their obligation to you ended there. You are responsible from that point onwards and to ask FW to replace a part you lost, let alone to suggest harassing them about it is childish and entitled.

You are not a special snowflake, FW shouldn't be expected to cast up a whole new part to cover your mistake (or your painter's, but really, your choice of painter was your responsibility too)

Ebay is probably your best bet, or make a replacement by hand, or commission a sculpted replacement, or if it's a small shield buy one of the warlord alternate heads that comes with shields, but whatever you do you should not be asking FW to help you cover you