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I'm talking in relation to the primarchs here. Was there anything that a primarch could do better than him, or was he the best at everything he tried? For example, who was tougher Ferrus Manus or the Emperor? Who was a better smith, Vulkan or the Emperor? Better warrior, Angron or Emperor? Better tactician, stealth master, logistics expert? So far the only thing I can think is Sanguinius and being able to fly lol, tho my friends tell me Sanguinius has an unfair advantage Jokes, jokes. For me the only real contender is Dorn at building the best fortress, otherwise why make him the Praetorian?

I don't think that it is a stretch of the imagination to say the the individual Primarchs were at least equal with the Emperor (probably better) at their individual talents when compared to the Emperor, but at least part of what made the Emperor so powerful was that he embodied so many of the qualities and had so many of the proficiencies and/or broad traits that his sons had (and possessed relatively similar levels of skill in them).

I don't ever recall the emperor being a weapon/armour-maker, so Ferrus and Vulkan might have the up on him there. Genetics was more his thing.
Also, quite a few of the primarchs would probably be better at inspiring loyalty than him, as he really just expects you to follow him because reasons.
I'll think about more and edit this as I go.

Merry Christmas,

Mudrat wrote:
I don't ever recall the emperor being a weapon/armour-maker

He made Worldbreaker, I believe, Horus' power maul.

Mudrat wrote:
I don't ever recall the emperor being a weapon/armour-maker, so Ferrus and Vulkan might have the up on him there. Genetics was more his thing.
Also, quite a few of the primarchs would probably be better at inspiring loyalty than him, as he really just expects you to follow him because reasons.
I'll think about more and edit this as I go.

Merry Christmas,

Merry Christmas to you too

Coincidentally, the Emperor actully forged a sword for Sanguinius called "Valours Edge" which is AP2 and strikes at initiative on the tabletop. No where near as good as Vulkans "Dawnbringer" in my opinion, but still seems pretty legit; so he may have at least been an amazing smith, just nowhere in the same league as Vulkan who spent his early years as a Forger on Nocturne.

The emperor was "killed" by one of his sons so...

usmcmidn wrote:
The emperor was "killed" by one of his sons so...

Wasn't really a fair fight. Horus was backed up by 4 Chaos Gods and, allegedly, the Emperor was holding back.

Russ bet him in an eating contest iirc.

Big E seems to have designed the Primarchs after stereotypes - Angron as the Fighter, Magnus as the the Wise/Mage and so on. Each Primarch was probably better than the Emperor in their very limited spectrum - but since the Emperor could design each meeting with his Primachs he came out on top.

And war on a interstellar level are not won by Big Guy vs Big Guy fights, but on "gigantic mess of logistics" vs "gigantiv mess of logistics" - which no one was better than the Emperor + the Administratum. Not to mention the Navy, which clould switch sides far easier than regiments under the eye of Hourus.

SideSwipe wrote:
Russ bet him in an eating contest iirc.

And a drinking contest.

pm713 wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:
Russ bet him in an eating contest iirc.

And a drinking contest.

Emperor came up up trumps in the fighting contest though

SideSwipe wrote:

pm713 wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:
Russ bet him in an eating contest iirc.

And a drinking contest.

Emperor came up up trumps in the fighting contest though

When one person has an iron sword and the other has power armour and a power fist there's only going to be one winner.

pm713 wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:

pm713 wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:
Russ bet him in an eating contest iirc.

And a drinking contest.

Emperor came up up trumps in the fighting contest though

When one person has an iron sword and the other has power armour and a power fist there's only going to be one winner.

I don't think there's any doubt that the Emperor would have beaten any Primarch in a scuffle [bar possibly Horus empowered by Chaos].

SideSwipe wrote:

pm713 wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:

pm713 wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:
Russ bet him in an eating contest iirc.

And a drinking contest.

Emperor came up up trumps in the fighting contest though

When one person has an iron sword and the other has power armour and a power fist there's only going to be one winner.

I don't think there's any doubt that the Emperor would have beaten any Primarch in a scuffle [bar possibly Horus empowered by Chaos].

Yet he still can't even try to do it fairly.

SideSwipe wrote:

I don't think there's any doubt that the Emperor would have beaten any Primarch in a scuffle [bar possibly Horus empowered by Chaos].

Pretty sure he won that one as well.

Loopstah wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:

I don't think there's any doubt that the Emperor would have beaten any Primarch in a scuffle [bar possibly Horus empowered by Chaos].

Pretty sure he won that one as well.

Your definition of won is very different then mine. He is now a vegetable because of Horus the excuse the Emperor wasn't trying is ridiculous... I view it as both sides lost that fight.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Mudrat wrote:
I don't ever recall the emperor being a weapon/armour-maker

He made Worldbreaker, I believe, Horus' power maul.

He was a technical genius. At least enough that all the tech priests of mars considered him their machine god.
That he didnt sit around making small weapons that often probably has more to do with him having more important things to do.

I'd keep in mind that Big E was pushing 30,000 years old when he came up with the Primarchs - regardless of genetic potential, he's got the immense advantage of experience when it comes to studying and practicing martial arts, science, engineering, motivational psychology, competitive eating etc

Cassor the Damned wrote:
I'm talking in relation to the primarchs here. Was there anything that a primarch could do better than him, or was he the best at everything he tried? For example, who was tougher Ferrus Manus or the Emperor? Who was a better smith, Vulkan or the Emperor? Better warrior, Angron or Emperor? Better tactician, stealth master, logistics expert? So far the only thing I can think is Sanguinius and being able to fly lol, tho my friends tell me Sanguinius has an unfair advantage Jokes, jokes. For me the only real contender is Dorn at building the best fortress, otherwise why make him the Praetorian?

Ultimately the Emperor was able to smite the daemonic primarch Horus out of existence with a single blow once he finally realized he absolutely had to, it's safe to say that the Emperor was dramatically more powerful than any of the primarchs were. The Emperor had existed for many millenia and had been many things over time (as Skinflint Games noted), it's probably safe to say that in any one thing the Emperor could probably best any of the Primarchs if he had to, but either had a disposition not to do those things in the same way or was busy doing other more important stuff.

SideSwipe wrote:

pm713 wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:
Russ bet him in an eating contest iirc.

And a drinking contest.

Emperor came up up trumps in the fighting contest though

They should have had the eating and drinking contests first, not so sure the Emperor would have won the fight then.

I always thought he was a lesser daemon spawn. Now hear me out before you freak out.

In order to become a big bad 4 or greater daemon"not the summoned but a presence in the warp" You need to be worshiped

The emperor appears during a time of great need and helped one side win"with the creation of the first marines Then he created 12 .super beings and used their genes to make the new marines after killing off the old ones. Why didnt he use his genes to make the new warriors and used his 12 new sons? Because he split he essence into 12 to dilute his blood so they would not receive power from being worshipped.

He even allowed these so called sons to be taken away. Then after finding them gave them a army to concour the galaxy for him and remove all other gods so they lose power in this galaxy. Then he put into play events that caused his son to betray him. He appeared to the red giant many times over great distance but yet never once checked in on horus who was being mind screwed. Also the emperor who knew where lorgar was and causing people to worship him didnt see him head to the eye...ya right.

Then he knew the time has come he had enough followers that he let horus strike him completeing his work and letting himself be worshipped. Thus becoming a greater pressence in the warp.

He even knew horus would betray him, he built a fortress to protect from many legions. Yet he says many times the greatest threat is in the warp. He knew they where coming, he sent his sons to die , he sent the wolf to kill magnus because he didnt choose a side and could become a threat. He made sure all neutral legions got involved one way or another. The only mistake he made was letting some of the primarchs survive. Which is why the salamnder primarch never rejoined them. They loss their connection to him.

icn1982 wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:

pm713 wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:
Russ bet him in an eating contest iirc.

And a drinking contest.

Emperor came up up trumps in the fighting contest though

They should have had the eating and drinking contests first, not so sure the Emperor would have won the fight then.

They did. The Emperor was annoyed that Russ was a drunk barbarian. Not sure why considering he grew up on Fenris. They're hardly musicians and artists there.

OgreChubbs wrote:
I always thought he was a lesser daemon spawn. Now hear me out before you freak out.

Too late. This is Heresy of the worst kind.

OgreChubbs wrote:

In order to become a big bad 4 or greater daemon"not the summoned but a presence in the warp" You need to be worshiped

The emperor appears during a time of great need and helped one side win"with the creation of the first marines Then he created 12 .super beings and used their genes to make the new marines after killing off the old ones. Why didnt he use his genes to make the new warriors and used his 12 new sons? Because he split he essence into 12 to dilute his blood so they would not receive power from being worshipped.

He even allowed these so called sons to be taken away. Then after finding them gave them a army to concour the galaxy for him and remove all other gods so they lose power in this galaxy. Then he put into play events that caused his son to betray him. He appeared to the red giant many times over great distance but yet never once checked in on horus who was being mind screwed. Also the emperor who knew where lorgar was and causing people to worship him didnt see him head to the eye...ya right.

Then he knew the time has come he had enough followers that he let horus strike him completeing his work and letting himself be worshipped. Thus becoming a greater pressence in the warp.

He even knew horus would betray him, he built a fortress to protect from many legions. Yet he says many times the greatest threat is in the warp. He knew they where coming, he sent his sons to die , he sent the wolf to kill magnus because he didnt choose a side and could become a threat. He made sure all neutral legions got involved one way or another. The only mistake he made was letting some of the primarchs survive. Which is why the salamnder primarch never rejoined them. They loss their connection to him.

The Emperor = / = Demon.

Every Demon is a splinter of the warp, a beeing of the empyrean that doesn't belong into the material realm.
Big E could stay forever. Any type of Demon can't.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Ultimately the Emperor was able to smite the daemonic primarch Horus out of existence with a single blow once he finally realized he absolutely had to, it's safe to say that the Emperor was dramatically more powerful than any of the primarchs were. The Emperor had existed for many millenia and had been many things over time (as Skinflint Games noted), it's probably safe to say that in any one thing the Emperor could probably best any of the Primarchs if he had to, but either had a disposition not to do those things in the same way or was busy doing other more important stuff.

Big E was definitely more powerful than any of the primarchs, but more powerful than them all combined, probably not.

The Emperor is a very powerful psyker. He can suck at everything and make you believe that he is awesome at everything. He can implant memories, change his apperance, cast illusions of all sorts. How good he is at anything is thus almost impossible to assess.

epronovost wrote:
The Emperor is a very powerful psyker. He can suck at everything and make you believe that he is awesome at everything. He can implant memories, change his apperance, cast illusions of all sorts.

This is very true.

epronovost wrote:
How good he is at anything is thus almost impossible to assess.

From an in-universe standpoint - of course! But from our out-of-universe perspective, it is quite easy.

usmcmidn wrote:

Loopstah wrote:

SideSwipe wrote:

I don't think there's any doubt that the Emperor would have beaten any Primarch in a scuffle [bar possibly Horus empowered by Chaos].

Pretty sure he won that one as well.

Your definition of won is very different then mine. He is now a vegetable because of Horus the excuse the Emperor wasn't trying is ridiculous... I view it as both sides lost that fight.

Pyrrhic victory is still a victory.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Cassor the Damned wrote:
I'm talking in relation to the primarchs here. Was there anything that a primarch could do better than him, or was he the best at everything he tried? For example, who was tougher Ferrus Manus or the Emperor? Who was a better smith, Vulkan or the Emperor? Better warrior, Angron or Emperor? Better tactician, stealth master, logistics expert? So far the only thing I can think is Sanguinius and being able to fly lol, tho my friends tell me Sanguinius has an unfair advantage Jokes, jokes. For me the only real contender is Dorn at building the best fortress, otherwise why make him the Praetorian?

Ultimately the Emperor was able to smite the daemonic primarch Horus out of existence with a single blow once he finally realized he absolutely had to, it's safe to say that the Emperor was dramatically more powerful than any of the primarchs were. The Emperor had existed for many millenia and had been many things over time (as Skinflint Games noted), it's probably safe to say that in any one thing the Emperor could probably best any of the Primarchs if he had to, but either had a disposition not to do those things in the same way or was busy doing other more important stuff.

Yea, but he can only do the 'erase from existence' technique after filling out his special meter. It is shown time and again!

I think it's canon that all the Primarchs specialties and traits were based upon an aspect of the abilities of E-money. So I think altogether they would be nearly as powerful as him but in their individual areas of expertise they would be individually on par with Eazy-E. however, for al his merits, he was a terrible father.......

Horus tried to kill the Emperor once.

Almost succeeded, with direct aid from all four Chaos Gods.

Emperor one-shotted Horus after holding back only because he believed Horus might be reasoned with into stopping on his own.

In "Primarch versus Emperor", Emperor ALWAYS wins.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

OgreChubbs wrote:
I always thought he was a lesser daemon spawn. Now hear me out before you freak out.

In order to become a big bad 4 or greater daemon"not the summoned but a presence in the warp" You need to be worshiped

Just, like, stop there and let me point out why you're wrong for going down that path.

The Emperor is the deity of the Ecclesiarchy. Every loyal citizen of the Imperium worships him as a god.

There are a million worlds in the Imperium. If you try to estimate the population of the Imperium based on the average population of a Hive World, and the number of Hive Worlds, along with the population and number of non-Hive Worlds, the Imperium has tens of quadrillions of Emperor-worshippers in it.

If the Emperor gained power from being worshipped in the same way Chaos does, he commands enough of the galaxy's worship that he should be able to defeat Chaos entirely and kill all the Chaos Gods and all of their demons. If they reappear, he could just kill them again.

He does not have that much power, therefore, he does not gain power from being worshipped. Therefore, he is not like demons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:
Yea, but he can only do the 'erase from existence' technique after filling out his special meter. It is shown time and again!

So you've never heard of the concept of a "pulse laser" or a weapon that takes time to reload or recharge its capacitors and thus cannot be operated continuously?