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I don't really see why making a fuss out of it. I mean, we got plenty of "alternative facts" on this topic and all the topics before here. This never stopped people supporting them to keep posting them, over and over.
Well, now I think it's best to focus on what will really be done and how it will be reported.
The very first stamenent in the White House press room was a lie, and a stupid boldfaced lie. That makes it a big deal, not what the lie was about.
I don't really see why making a fuss out of it. I mean, we got plenty of "alternative facts" on this topic and all the topics before here. This never stopped people supporting them to keep posting them, over and over.
Well, now I think it's best to focus on what will really be done and how it will be reported.
The very first stamenent in the White House press room was a lie, and a stupid boldfaced lie. That makes it a big deal, not what the lie was about.
So... how many peeps can you stuff underneath the bus?
I don't really see why making a fuss out of it. I mean, we got plenty of "alternative facts" on this topic and all the topics before here. This never stopped people supporting them to keep posting them, over and over.
Well, now I think it's best to focus on what will really be done and how it will be reported.
The very first stamenent in the White House press room was a lie, and a stupid boldfaced lie. That makes it a big deal, not what the lie was about.
So... how many peeps can you stuff underneath the bus?
Not going to watch a 15 minute video.
Does it give any explanation about why the first press room statement features alternative facts?
I don't really see why making a fuss out of it. I mean, we got plenty of "alternative facts" on this topic and all the topics before here. This never stopped people supporting them to keep posting them, over and over.
Well, now I think it's best to focus on what will really be done and how it will be reported.
The very first stamenent in the White House press room was a lie, and a stupid boldfaced lie. That makes it a big deal, not what the lie was about.
The second statement was a threat to the media for not toeing the line on their lies. It's more than concerning.
I think the term "gaslightling" is going to come into common usage again.
I remember there were a few articles about how Clinton would be a great threat to the Press, because she didn't like to hold full press conferences often. Bet a lot of journalists are feeling stupid about writing those articles now...
I don't really see why making a fuss out of it. I mean, we got plenty of "alternative facts" on this topic and all the topics before here. This never stopped people supporting them to keep posting them, over and over.
Well, now I think it's best to focus on what will really be done and how it will be reported.
The very first stamenent in the White House press room was a lie, and a stupid boldfaced lie. That makes it a big deal, not what the lie was about.
So... how many peeps can you stuff underneath the bus?
Not going to watch a 15 minute video.
Does it give any explanation about why the first press room statement features alternative facts?
THat Tom Barrack dude told Anderson Cooper last night that the estimate of 1.5 million at the inauguration came from him... and goes to say that the Team Trump’s crowd count was partially distorted by the vantage point of looking out from the Capitol towards the Lincoln Memorial, which I guess makes the lawn appear completely packed even if it isn’t... that erroneous estimate of 1.5 million was accurate from that vantage point, but not when you saw the shots from overhead.
So... it's the ol'Kenobi "he's right from a certain point of view"...
Frankly... it's bs... Team Trump didn't think they'd get this much pushback and Tom Barrack became the patsy imo.
EDIT: he also told Cooper that many attendees were late getting onto the lawn because of a wider security perimeter and the strain on police from dealing with the riots happening elsewhere in the city, which meant that even the overhead shots taken before Trump spoke didn’t accurately capture how many people ended up being there.
It all sounds so plausible... but still stanks of bs...
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d-usa wrote: Did nobody bother to look at the tweets from the park service before they ordered them to be purged?
It's going to be 4 years of this...
Everybody's got to remember that one of his top advisors is Bannon. He's understands that opinion can be more important than fact. Say a lie enough times and it can sway opinion. This is already playing out...
BigWaaagh wrote: Everybody's got to remember that one of his top advisors is Bannon. He's understands that opinion can be more important than fact. Say a lie enough times and it can sway opinion. This is already playing out...
And besides swaying opinion it can get the mindless middle to say "well, both sides are saying stuff, I don't know what the truth is!" and give up on everything. Destroy the entire concept of truth and go back to "us vs. them" politics where Trump's rabid followers can get him reelected.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
d-usa wrote: Maybe the crowd really was larger, and we just didn't see it on those pictures because the white ground made all the white robes hard to see?
Ha!
I think, what's more likely is that someone TOLD Trump that it was yuge... and when the media reported that it wasn't, Trumpo was pissy and asked his peeps to correct them.
d-usa wrote: Maybe the crowd really was larger, and we just didn't see it on those pictures because the white ground made all the white robes hard to see?
Ha!
I think, what's more likely is that someone TOLD Trump that it was yuge... and when the media reported that it wasn't, Trumpo was pissy and asked his peeps to correct them.
And none of his top advisors, or the press secretary, knew the truth or bothered to correct him?
I mean, on the one hand he's only barley gotten into office, and on the other there have been some questionable business meeting pre-presidency so I could see it standing up.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Realistically it'll almost certainly fail standing. I just think it's hilarious. EDIT: The article is also fairly decent considering it's from ThinkProgress, and the authors took the time to put some attention on what the ACLU says it wants to do which would have a better chance of success.
My parents live near the Trump Winery in Virgnia. I remember over a year ago when wine stores in the area couldn't sell the stuff, cause apparently it's not bad but costs more than its worth. I was in a store two weeks ago, and the guy was talking about how he couldn't keep the stuff on the shelf.
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Co'tor Shas wrote: The crowd size is something that would only be bandied around by left-leaning groups, if it wasn't for the fact that the Trump admin responded. The crowd size isn't really important (and we already know that he's very unpopular), the important thing is that they will lie, in an official capacity, about such an insignificant thing. Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, they all lied or deceived, but none of them did so constantly about such insignificant gak.
Understand, Trump is absolutely obsessed with ratings. Its been easy to troll him on it so far. Every time he was criticized he would bring up how such and such got more ratings when he was on etc.Frankly its probably more important to him then the nuclear codes.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
You know you're doing great when the GOP President is loosing the FoxNews support.
I feel like this video needs to be earmarked and used in all future lessons about not opening a barrel of worms you don't want to end up dealing with.
This has kind of been the thing for me with a lot of this stuff.
Think the things celebrities say don't matter? Then why the feth do you keep talking about what they say? Think the media is producing fake news? Then why do you keep responding to every "fake" story? Trump won the election imo in part because he played almost pure offense, or at least stumbled from one stupid comment to another with such speed it didn't matter what the media was reporting on yesterday because they already had something new to report on. Now he's getting bogged down in what has to be the most banal argument that has ever been argued on national television and if he'd just not made those comments in the first place we'd have all forgotten the size of the crowd by now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/23 02:04:42
This is officially a good deal as he had seized power in coup.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/23 02:06:22
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Yeah... it's gonna be a great four years alright XD
I'd recommend listening to Episode 35 and Episode 36 of Opening Arguments. It covers why Prof. Seth Tillman wrote his paper about the Emoluments Clause not applying to the President, and one of the host's arguments against the claim.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I was under the mistaken belief that the responsibility and prestige of such a high office would temper something in Trump.
Trump doesn't see responsibility, he sees power and prestige. Giving him more power and prestige and hoping it will get him to modify his behaviour is like telling a 5 year old you'll give them red cordial as long as they promise to calm down.
It's one thing to read about the fall of a particular empire in the history books, it's another thing to witness it happening in slow motion, as we are doing now.
I think calls for the US decline are premature. They will still have their base of hard power - an almighty military and the largest economy in the world.
The part of the US empire that will likely degrade is US soft power. This was a serious issue with the GW Bush presidency, and it was interesting to note how quick everyone was to move on from that debacle and ignore what happened once Bush left office. But here we have round 2, and this time its much crazier. Will people be so willing to move back to the status quo a second time around? Will people be fearful of a new pattern of crazy idiot presidents every 8 years, and start to look to more stable countries for their key diplomatic relationships?
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oldravenman3025 wrote: Inaugurations have always drawn respectable-sized crowds. And considering the threats of violence and "protests" going bad, Trump actually had a decent turn-out.
Leftists and neocons seem to forget that fact when they compare Trump's crowd to Obama's back in 2008, and use it as a gauge of his popularity.
You've missed the point completely. Trump getting a so-so crowd is barely news. What is news is Trump's bizarre reaction and invention of 'alternative facts' to try and convince himself that the turnout was large.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/23 02:45:18
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Yeah... it's gonna be a great four years alright XD
I'd recommend listening to Episode 35 and Episode 36 of Opening Arguments. It covers why Prof. Seth Tillman wrote his paper about the Emoluments Clause not applying to the President, and one of the host's arguments against the claim.
The Emoluments Clause is one of (if not the) least litigated sections of the United States Constitution. I'm not aware of any SCOTUS cases dealing with it, or even any major scandals in US political history related to it (if only because of long standing isolationist policy traditions). I'm not going to debate Tillman cause I lack the capacity, but I would be wary about assuming anything about what the Emoluments Clause does and does not apply to with so little case law under it.
I highly doubt any lawsuit on the matter will go forward for that very reason. The Robert court isn't going to make to touch that kettle.
Zywus wrote: It's so weird. Why the hell lie about something so meaningless as the Inauguration crowds? What upside are there here?
Because the most important thing to Trump is his ego. His whole run for office was driven by ego. He isn't there for any kind of reform agenda, his campaign was a grab bag of populist talking points that he thought would appeal, and his actual polices are basically 'okay Republicans, I'll do your policy things but everyone has to pretend they're my ideas'. The whole point is ego.
It's why he claimed his EV win was historically large, when it was actually in the closest 25% of presidential elections. It's why he invented weird conspiracy nonsense to pretend he hadn't lost the popular vote, even though popular vote doesn't matter. The whole point of everything he's done is his own ego.
It's monumentally stupid to lie about stuff that's so easy to conclusively prove false. There's a reason that it's almost impossible to get straight answers from politicians about anything.
In his campaign he told easily disproven lies. When caught, he just kept repeating the same lies. I don't think he'd see any reason to change his ways now.
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Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: If nothing else, I think the phrase Alternative facts is going to be in use for a very long time, so if nothing else, the Trump administration has already given something to political and historical discussion.
It took until 2004 for the Bush administration's denial of reality to be perfectly captured, when Karl Rove criticised the opposition as belong to the reality based community, while the Bush administration were 'creating their own reality'. Four years to finally, perfectly sum up the central delusion that was driving so much terrible decision making within the Bush administration.
The Trump administration didn't even need four days to come up with an even crazier expression.
This Trump admin really has been like the more extreme and even less plausible sequel to the Bush administration.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/23 03:02:29
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
The biggest difference, imo, is that Bush really did want the US to do well, and really tried his best to make that happen. He wasn't very good at being President but his intentions were good. Trump, as you said, has no desire to help the nation or the people beyond how it will increase his own prestige.
In his campaign he told easily disproven lies. When caught, he just kept repeating the same lies. I don't think he'd see any reason to change his ways now.
They were shown the picture of the crowd on FoxNews today and then argued that anybody could post pictures of the crowd and there is no way of telling when they were taken, and argued that the picture taken during the swearing in was taken long before anything actually happened, and then argued that they could take a picture right now and the National Mall would be empty and claim it was a shot of the crowd. Then the FoxNews guy told the tech guy to pull up the picture again to show how stupid the lie actually is that they are doubling down on.
FoxNews is one of the voices of reason. Attacking the GOP administration less than 48 hours after getting rid of (in their mind) the worst president to have ever governed.
The recent events of major CEOs like Walmart and GM going to meet with Trump, kiss his hand an announce big investment and jobs in the US are simple cons, played on Trump by CEOs smart enough to know how to shift a couple of numbers. The Walmart jobs were new staff for stores planned years ago, and are mostly of the $10 an hour variety. Meanwhile Walmart is cutting higher paying back end jobs... but Trump has his story about new jobs offered up to him by a supplicant CEO. Similarly, GM made a detail free promise about 7,000 jobs, while remaining committed to making more and more cars in Mexico. The article doesn't mention it, but Barro is on an economic advisory board to Trump, talk of the tariff was a very shallow showmanship.
The announcement for Bayer is utterly mundane - pharmaceutical research and manufacture is a huge growth area in the US, it'd be weird if a multinational wasn't investing 9 figure sums in new business. It's also a case of a very clever CEO trapping a very stupid president - Trump has been led down the path of cheerleading the merger with Monsanto, a decision that is meant to be made by the Justice Dept based on their reading of anti-trust laws. The last president to try this was Richard Nixon with ITT (more than the hotel break-in, Woodward and Bernstein's investigations were all about the hundreds of thousands in campaign contributions ITT made to have their acquisition pass anti-trust review). Trump isn't even smart enough to get some money in exchange for taking a political position on the Bayer and Monsanto merger.
Probably the funniest one is Boeing, because it created the most noise despite meaning absolutely nothing. Trump tweeted that Airforce One cost $4 billion. It doesn't, it costs $2.9 billion over ten years. The Boeing CEO doesn't put out the incredible incompetence of the incoming president, instead he just meets with Trump and comes out of the meeting saying Boeing will make a better plane at a lower cost. ie same plane, still at the actual cost and not Trump's stupid made up number, but I'll pretend you're not stupid and made some kind of deal, and you keep giving us our sweet defence contracts.
This is the Berlusconi con, people. The only question is whether the American people are as hopelessly gullible as the Italians were.
This is officially a good deal as he had seized power in coup.
It's great news as seeing West African solidarity based on a principle of democracy is a wonderful new thing.
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NinthMusketeer wrote: The biggest difference, imo, is that Bush really did want the US to do well, and really tried his best to make that happen. He wasn't very good at being President but his intentions were good. Trump, as you said, has no desire to help the nation or the people beyond how it will increase his own prestige.
While the personalities are different, the processes and the beliefs of the two are very similar. Like you I have some kind of fondness for Bush in that he seemed very well intentioned. The problem is when you wrap yourself up in an ideology that lets you ignore inconvenient realities, well you're pretty much doomed to screw everything up.
Trump has no such ideological commitments, he's just in it for the ego boost. But the people around him and the political party he leads are extremely ideological, more so than they were 16 years ago when Bush began his first term.
So we're getting this double whammy, a more extreme policy set, an even crazier political party, and this time it's helmed by a truly awful person. So it's the same issues, this time turned to 11.
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d-usa wrote: They were shown the picture of the crowd on FoxNews today and then argued that anybody could post pictures of the crowd and there is no way of telling when they were taken, and argued that the picture taken during the swearing in was taken long before anything actually happened, and then argued that they could take a picture right now and the National Mall would be empty and claim it was a shot of the crowd. Then the FoxNews guy told the tech guy to pull up the picture again to show how stupid the lie actually is that they are doubling down on.
FoxNews is one of the voices of reason. Attacking the GOP administration less than 48 hours after getting rid of (in their mind) the worst president to have ever governed.
Good on FOX for doing that, but I suspect it might be too little too late from them. As far as news for crazy people goes they're no longer where its at.
Some guy I went to highschool with has just put on facebook a bit of nonsense about how the comparison pictures where from different times of the day, because the media is plotting against Trump. Then it shows a photoshop of Trump in front of a different inauguration crowd.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/01/23 05:09:36
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
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