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With the new legion rules out, I've been thinking about building a bike army under the World Eaters rules. It'd use the chaos warband formation with spawn as auxiliary. I'd take minimum units of CSM, a hellbrute, and maybe terminators to fill the rest out. The bulk of it would be three groups of ten bikes with Mark of khorne, 2 meltas, and the champ having a power axe and melta bombs. Just curious on what people thought of this.
It definitely sounds fun. The MoK on bikes is pretty great, jink away and smash them in CC.
Personally I rather see multiple units of 5 Bikes, to solid blocks of 10, but thats my MSU style observation, and I know the Warband limits your number.
Sounds pretty decent. You've also got the option of using the bikes to drag Kharn into combat the way the nurgle plague bus does. I'd be trading the helbrute for auto or las havoks, but that's just me.
Plenty of room for trading the spawn for another Aux choice or splimy expanding the spawn into a tide. I'd probably go for another unit or two of havoks to open transports, but there's plenty of options.
Peregrine wrote: What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
IDK, I'm on the fence about Bikers. They're on huge bases so 10 of them is going to take up a ton of your deployment zone, and three of those units of ten is going to clog up the zone like crazy. I actually have been looking at Raptors instead of Bikers. Raptors don't get jink, but come out cheaper for it. Raptors hop over terrain instead of having to go around or through it, however, and have a smaller footprint which helps you line up units on your deployment edge like Spawn or Deamon Princes.
240 - 10x Raptors, MoK, 2x Melta, Power Weapons (I like the Lance), Melta Bombs
30 points is pretty significant. 90 points replacing all the Bikers with Raptors is huge. Just food for thought. If more bodies is more important than a jink save, Raptors win.
IDK, I'm on the fence about Bikers. They're on huge bases so 10 of them is going to take up a ton of your deployment zone, and three of those units of ten is going to clog up the zone like crazy. I actually have been looking at Raptors instead of Bikers. Raptors don't get jink, but come out cheaper for it. Raptors hop over terrain instead of having to go around or through it, however, and have a smaller footprint which helps you line up units on your deployment edge like Spawn or Deamon Princes.
240 - 10x Raptors, MoK, 2x Melta, Power Weapons (I like the Lance), Melta Bombs
30 points is pretty significant. 90 points replacing all the Bikers with Raptors is huge. Just food for thought. If more bodies is more important than a jink save, Raptors win.
It's +1 toughness along with the jink save. Bikes are better in defence. Raptors have a better footprint indeed and I believe they get more attacks. I would still have raptors in MSU with dual flamers or melta to be honest, and keep the bikes for the smashing. Maybe one big bike unit and 2 msu raptors for the warband?
IDK, I'm on the fence about Bikers. They're on huge bases so 10 of them is going to take up a ton of your deployment zone, and three of those units of ten is going to clog up the zone like crazy. I actually have been looking at Raptors instead of Bikers. Raptors don't get jink, but come out cheaper for it. Raptors hop over terrain instead of having to go around or through it, however, and have a smaller footprint which helps you line up units on your deployment edge like Spawn or Deamon Princes.
240 - 10x Raptors, MoK, 2x Melta, Power Weapons (I like the Lance), Melta Bombs
30 points is pretty significant. 90 points replacing all the Bikers with Raptors is huge. Just food for thought. If more bodies is more important than a jink save, Raptors win.
It's +1 toughness along with the jink save. Bikes are better in defence. Raptors have a better footprint indeed and I believe they get more attacks. I would still have raptors in MSU with dual flamers or melta to be honest, and keep the bikes for the smashing. Maybe one big bike unit and 2 msu raptors for the warband?
They get the same number of attacks on the charge. They're essentially the same unit except, as you said, Bikes get +1 toughness and a Jink save and are slightly pricier per model. The Bikes get HoW, but that's not very reliable (yes Raptors get it too if they don't use their 12 inch move but who is really going to do that?). Bikes don't "smash" any better or worse then Raptors unless you're dropping a Lord into the unit to do the real smashing.
The extra toughness and the jink save have never helped me much against my main enemies (Necrons, Grey Knights, and Nids), which is why I feel cheaper bodies is more helpful. That's just my local meta though.
You don't need THAT many Bikers. You can cut 2-4 and save some major points.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also that's your imagination on the Raptors being any cheaper. Compare the cost and you aren't getting more bodies like you claim.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The only true advantage Raptors have is their formation.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/05 18:28:47
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You don't need THAT many Bikers. You can cut 2-4 and save some major points.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also that's your imagination on the Raptors being any cheaper. Compare the cost and you aren't getting more bodies like you claim.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The only true advantage Raptors have is their formation.
I don't think it's my imagination that Raptors are 17 points per model while bikers are 20. At larger numbers, the points add up. I've been comparing units of 10 for both Bikes and Raptors, I apologize if that was confusing.
Along with a point advantage, Raptors can hop over other models and on top over or over terrain instead of having to go around them like Bikers have to. At larger numbers they also have a smaller footprint due to their base size. You trade toughness for mobility. It really just depends on your own personal preference when army building.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You'd have 5 Bikers per 6 Raptors. That's not numbers when you factor in T5
The OP was looking to use units of 10 Bikes, which base come in at 210. 10 raptors comes in, base, at 180. No one is saying you get more for less, not sure why you keep bringing that up.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You'd have 5 Bikers per 6 Raptors. That's not numbers when you factor in T5
with the jinksave, HoW all the time, turbo boost and the relentless bolters it really starts to add up.
Unless you want to DS, jump infantry really are lackluster
Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++
IDK, I'm on the fence about Bikers. They're on huge bases so 10 of them is going to take up a ton of your deployment zone, and three of those units of ten is going to clog up the zone like crazy. I actually have been looking at Raptors instead of Bikers. Raptors don't get jink, but come out cheaper for it. Raptors hop over terrain instead of having to go around or through it, however, and have a smaller footprint which helps you line up units on your deployment edge like Spawn or Deamon Princes.
240 - 10x Raptors, MoK, 2x Melta, Power Weapons (I like the Lance), Melta Bombs
30 points is pretty significant. 90 points replacing all the Bikers with Raptors is huge. Just food for thought. If more bodies is more important than a jink save, Raptors win.
Oh, I agree, just that I was pricing out the OP's list and that's what he had. Personally, while I think that bikes are stupid, their mechanical advantages over jump infnatry are far too numerous for their points cost to be ignored if you're building a competative list. Having said that, you could also fit a raptor talon into the list I wrote to replace the spawn as the Aux choice and it would solve some of the issues with a clogged deployment zone as well as provide a decent rush of reinforcements. Hell, you could even find the points to put the dimensioal key on the raptor talon lord and start him in the same unit as the talisman lord for that assured T1 charge and now your raptors don't even scatter when they come down ... brb, writing a list.
Peregrine wrote: What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot?
Nightlord1987 wrote: But the forced disordered charge takes away your whole MoK Rage benefit.
Someone mentioned that the disordered charge helps you in the end since you want to stay in combat during the enemy turn, cleaning up during their turn and consolidating to allow for a much more powerful charge on your turn.
IDK, I'm on the fence about Bikers. They're on huge bases so 10 of them is going to take up a ton of your deployment zone, and three of those units of ten is going to clog up the zone like crazy. I actually have been looking at Raptors instead of Bikers. Raptors don't get jink, but come out cheaper for it. Raptors hop over terrain instead of having to go around or through it, however, and have a smaller footprint which helps you line up units on your deployment edge like Spawn or Deamon Princes.
240 - 10x Raptors, MoK, 2x Melta, Power Weapons (I like the Lance), Melta Bombs
30 points is pretty significant. 90 points replacing all the Bikers with Raptors is huge. Just food for thought. If more bodies is more important than a jink save, Raptors win.
Oh, I agree, just that I was pricing out the OP's list and that's what he had. Personally, while I think that bikes are stupid, their mechanical advantages over jump infnatry are far too numerous for their points cost to be ignored if you're building a competative list. Having said that, you could also fit a raptor talon into the list I wrote to replace the spawn as the Aux choice and it would solve some of the issues with a clogged deployment zone as well as provide a decent rush of reinforcements. Hell, you could even find the points to put the dimensioal key on the raptor talon lord and start him in the same unit as the talisman lord for that assured T1 charge and now your raptors don't even scatter when they come down ... brb, writing a list.
Drop the Talisman lord and just take the Key on the Jump Pack lord. The Talisman is just overkill on fast units with the 2D6 pre-game move, but on slow units it's godlike. I made a 14 inch charge with my Terminators last game with it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/06 00:41:01
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