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Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos






MongooseMatt wrote:
BaronVonSnakPak wrote:

Regardless, his stardrake did nothing to skarbrand as it was fighting the wrathmongers,


Did the Stardrake seriously hurt itself while munching on the Wrathmongers?


When a Wrathmonger dies, the controlling player can pick an enemy model within 3" and attack with it as if it was his own. It can attack its own unit or even itself. It's a great way to get rid of enemy monster units.

2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
 
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






What army is OP playing?

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 Backspacehacker wrote:
What army is OP playing?


Grand Alliance Chaos: mainly khorne bloodbound with daemons.
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Lord Kragan wrote:
 Backspacehacker wrote:
What army is OP playing?


Grand Alliance Chaos: mainly khorne bloodbound with daemons.


Ah I think that's the reasons why he is seeing his armies drop so quickly then.

I have noticed most AoS games rarely make it to turn 6 or 5 on top of that Khorne are an MKD they pump out a crap ton of damage once they get into your face but if running pure khorne, I don't think they have much range which is probably why he is getting slaughtered.

A lot of khorne units don't have the best armor saves and storm cast have a good amount of deadly range. I would not be surprised if what's happening is he is getting tared up by liberators then picked off by storm cast range before he can pump out his khorne wombo combos

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
 Backspacehacker wrote:
What army is OP playing?


Grand Alliance Chaos: mainly khorne bloodbound with daemons.


Ah I think that's the reasons why he is seeing his armies drop so quickly then.

I have noticed most AoS games rarely make it to turn 6 or 5 on top of that Khorne are an MKD they pump out a crap ton of damage once they get into your face but if running pure khorne, I don't think they have much range which is probably why he is getting slaughtered.

A lot of khorne units don't have the best armor saves and storm cast have a good amount of deadly range. I would not be surprised if what's happening is he is getting tared up by liberators then picked off by storm cast range before he can pump out his khorne wombo combos


Except 10 judicators (which is all the ranged the enemy list has) are not good ranged power. If you're being picked apart by 10 shots a turn that hit and wound on 3s, something is going very wrong with your list. Plus his issues are in meelee and seem to be more along the lines of: didn't know my army and models rules. (ie: the failings in the usage of skarbrand, not using the wrathmongers' abilities, etc.)
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Oh yeah, I mean if you don't know your army your up a creek.

But those archers with cross bows are getting 2 attacks each rerolling ones, and if they don't move that's 3 attacks each. Plus the thunderbolt crossbow on a 6 caused d6 wounds.

So they are not as bad as you think, +when you are rating them up with liberators that's a big deal and will ruin someone's day.

That's not taking into account any hero that might or could buff those archers for more attacks or better rolls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if he has skarbrand he should not be putting him into any combat on turn one at all.

Nothing like raw not being clear and using the word always

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/13 17:07:21


To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




I play almost exclusively stormcast extremis(10 Dracoths!) and I can tell you the reason why it seemed as bad as it did is because of the rock paper scissors of armies. A unit of concussors with a castellant shield can mulch a literally infinite number of blood reavers and the low rend of the other units would have meant you'd probably couldn't kill them as fast as they kill you. Combine that with him having enough mortal wound generating abilities to snipe characters and against a list like yours it's pretty much a foregone conclusion.

Flipside, he goes up against Skryre fyre he'll be tabled by turn 2 whereas you have a fighting chance.

Dracoths are absolutely death machines against some armies and completely useless against others, just the nature of the game.


 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

BaronVonSnakPak wrote:



For my reavers, I did have meatripper axes, and they were boosted by the bloodsecrator and the wrathmongers, but they still hit and wound on 4+. So 60 attacks from a full health squad of 15, full buff, on average is hitting 30, wounding 15. Those 15 wounds against a (normally 3+) concussor amounts to an average of 7.5 wounds, which is 1 dead concussor, and one at atleast half health. Those 2 remaining concussors can either outright kill the 15 reavers, or cause enough deaths that they fail theyre bravery to the point of being useless.


Just catched this.

ARE YOU: KIDDING ME.

At this point you're complaining that your cannon fodder dies. Are you serious? You're lactually complaining that a CQC-dedicated unit doesn't make a third of its points in their obtimal scenario but you're fine WHEN YOUR CHAFF UNIT HAS MADE MORE THAN ITS POINT (140pts vs its worth of 90) IN DAMAGE!?

*Heavy breathing*

Quite wonderful objections.
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Lord Kragan wrote:
BaronVonSnakPak wrote:



For my reavers, I did have meatripper axes, and they were boosted by the bloodsecrator and the wrathmongers, but they still hit and wound on 4+. So 60 attacks from a full health squad of 15, full buff, on average is hitting 30, wounding 15. Those 15 wounds against a (normally 3+) concussor amounts to an average of 7.5 wounds, which is 1 dead concussor, and one at atleast half health. Those 2 remaining concussors can either outright kill the 15 reavers, or cause enough deaths that they fail theyre bravery to the point of being useless.


Just catched this.

ARE YOU: KIDDING ME.

At this point you're complaining that your cannon fodder dies. Are you serious? You're lactually complaining that a CQC-dedicated unit doesn't make a third of its points in their obtimal scenario but you're fine WHEN YOUR CHAFF UNIT HAS MADE MORE THAN ITS POINT (140pts vs its worth of 90) IN DAMAGE!?

*Heavy breathing*

Quite wonderful objections.


After reading this, Op is also fielding his reavers incorrectly. Blood reavers are fielded in swaths of 10, so you should have 20, not 15, so already your down 5 units.
On top of that, your missing the final piece of the wombo combo, you should also be running a warshrine to case the khorne buff on them so they get to reroll all failed misses. Assuming perfect statistics.

Half of 60 hit, 30, then reroll misses and half of those hit so 45 total hits
Half of those wound so, 23 wounds rounding up. Even on a model that's a 3+ which is not common that turns to a 4+, meaning half of your wounds are going to go through which would be 12 wounds.

So your running your wombo combo wrong, on top of that you should have 20 not 15 so if you were running the squad right. If you were running it correctly you would actually be getting

After all buffs: 80 attacks
After hit: 40 hits
After reroll of misses: 60 hits
After roll to wound: 30 wounds
On a 3+ save model: 15 unsaved wounds
On a 4+ save model: 20 unsaved wounds

Again assuming perfect statistics. That's pretty good for a 120 point unit.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

I'm assuming their meta houseruled to take fractions: concussors are taken in pairs, not trios.
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Which is really weird becuase the rules spicificly say you can't split the cost of models, if you want to fit more then 10 reavers you need to be able to buy another 10, can't split them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At which point if they are ignoring core rules then this whole argument is moot becuase they arnt even following core balance rules, what little there are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also worth a giggle that you have said Stormcast are cheese when some of the cheesiest combos can come from the rats ironically.

Get thanqul on a bail wind and laugh.

Better yet, get stormfiends get them all warp fire projectors, then watch your oponants weep as you do 6D6 mortal wounds that auto hit at 8" for 300 points

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/13 21:57:36


To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I own and play a Stormcast army. I can honestly say they need some points increases. I honestly feel dirty using some of the combinations that the Stormcast have access to. Three things I think need the priority of fixing are that Judicators should never have been a battleline unit, some of their battalion formations are over the top and undercosted, and their heroes all should likely increase in points.
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

broxus wrote:
I own and play a Stormcast army. I can honestly say they need some points increases. I honestly feel dirty using some of the combinations that the Stormcast have access to. Three things I think need the priority of fixing are that Judicators should never have been a battleline unit, some of their battalion formations are over the top and undercosted, and their heroes all should likely increase in points.


Judicator batallions need a retool, I personally have no big issue with them per se.

SOME things are undercosted but that specific army, while good, was far from OP cheese.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Lord Kragan wrote:
broxus wrote:
I own and play a Stormcast army. I can honestly say they need some points increases. I honestly feel dirty using some of the combinations that the Stormcast have access to. Three things I think need the priority of fixing are that Judicators should never have been a battleline unit, some of their battalion formations are over the top and undercosted, and their heroes all should likely increase in points.


Judicator batallions need a retool, I personally have no big issue with them per se.

SOME things are undercosted but that specific army, while good, was far from OP cheese.
It's kind of like Bonesplittaz. Many have the view that Bonesplittaz are overpowered, which given their performance at the tournament scene is a justified view at first glance. However, taking just ONE battalion out (Kunnin' Rukk) makes the whole faction entirely reasonable, if not a solid mid-range standard other armies could be compared by.

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I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
 
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