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I bet this topic probably comes up once every few months but what the hell. Pick a SM chapter. ANY Chapter, and change it's basic rules or Chapter Tactics. What do they look like now? Are you changing them based on fluff, think they're too weak, or think they need to get hit with the nerf bat?

I'll start with a few...

Salamanders

I think their Chapter Tactics are just fine, IMHO. They are fluffy, consistent, and not what I consider OP in any way. What I would change is their access to certain weapons/wargear.

- They should allow their Tactical Squads the option of taking a Heavy Flamer as a heavy weapon option. It fits the theme of the army very well without being overpowered since they seem to have a fetish for fire and heat based weapons.

- Any model capable of taking a plasma pistol should also be able to take an Inferno pistol (for same point cost). The Sallies like their melta weapons too, and it makes no sense that they would stop using them after the Heresy.

- Any Characters would be able to pay 10 points for Artificer Armor

- Finally, (this one is just me completely wishlisting and has no base in fluff or army theme really), maybe the option for a special piece of Vehicle Equipment costing 30 points that gives the Torrent ability on the Land Raider Redeemer's flamestorm cannons.


White Scars

- Change their CT to only giving Hit and Run to Biker models only. Giving HnR to everyone is just a bit too much. One reason why you see them so predominantly over any other Vanilla Chapter at Tournaments.

- Khan no longer gives Scout to all transport vehicles, only Biker units. This ability in conjunction with the free transports from Gladius is just pants on head OP.

Blood angels get furious charge AND +1 init on charge from chapter tactics even on disordered charges.

Their formations then grant some other bonus that's actually worthwhile. And SW would STILL be better, but it would be nice.

Can we do Legion tactics?

Alpha Legion: All units w/ VOTLW get Move Through Cover. HQs capable of riding in a Rhino may Infiltrate. Replace Infiltrate Warlord Trait w/ Warlord and Unit have Precision Shots.

Night Lords: Models with type Jump Infantry or VoTLW get Hit and Run.

Word Bearers: Models with VoTLW get Crusader and may take Marks for free. Replace Dark Crusaders in the Grand Host with "Unholy Haste:" Models in this detachment with the Daemon USR add +3" to move/run/charge.

World Eaters: Rather than granting all models Furious Charge for free, models with VoTLW replace Rage with Rampage. Redo the Butcherhorde, so it lets models Run & Charge, rather than letting them re-roll charge distances. There should be at least some point to taking Berzerkers or Icons of Wrath instead of just basic Warband Marines!

Death Guard: Replace Relentless with BS 2 Overwatch, and maybe Counter-Attack. (Death Guard plod forward, rather than do "breach & clear")

Emperor's Children: Fueled by Pain lets you get a free attack when dying, even if you already attacked.

Thousand Sons: Models w/ VoTLW get Fearless; models get S&P unless they had Relentless. Blessing of Tzeentch is "Get an additional die to manifest a blessing from a 1k Sons Psyker to a unit composed entirely of 1k Sons models"

As a salamander Player,

Heavy flamers for tacticals, Hand flamers for sarges.

Balance aside it's always irked me that BA got more flamers than salamanders.

Yeah, that is kinda dumb. It's like they are trying to make up for making us suck in CC.

Iron Hands need some sort of nerf. 2 up invuln and 2 up FNP? Screw that.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Can we do Legion tactics?

Alpha Legion: All units w/ VOTLW get Move Through Cover. HQs capable of riding in a Rhino may Infiltrate. Replace Infiltrate Warlord Trait w/ Warlord and Unit have Precision Shots.

Night Lords: Models with type Jump Infantry or VoTLW get Hit and Run.

Word Bearers: Models with VoTLW get Crusader and may take Marks for free. Replace Dark Crusaders in the Grand Host with "Unholy Haste:" Models in this detachment with the Daemon USR add +3" to move/run/charge.

World Eaters: Rather than granting all models Furious Charge for free, models with VoTLW replace Rage with Rampage. Redo the Butcherhorde, so it lets models Run & Charge, rather than letting them re-roll charge distances. There should be at least some point to taking Berzerkers or Icons of Wrath instead of just basic Warband Marines!

Death Guard: Replace Relentless with BS 2 Overwatch, and maybe Counter-Attack. (Death Guard plod forward, rather than do "breach & clear")

Emperor's Children: Fueled by Pain lets you get a free attack when dying, even if you already attacked.

Thousand Sons: Models w/ VoTLW get Fearless; models get S&P unless they had Relentless. Blessing of Tzeentch is "Get an additional die to manifest a blessing from a 1k Sons Psyker to a unit composed entirely of 1k Sons models"

Honestly I'm okay with everything GW did, but Crusader standard for Word Bearers and Stubborn on Iron Warriors would be my fixes.

Your main suggestion I did like was MTC for Alpha Legion Veterans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FireSkullz2 wrote:
Iron Hands need some sort of nerf. 2 up invuln and 2 up FNP? Screw that.

There's literally nothing wrong with the Iron Hands CT.

BA

Chapter tactics:
Frenzied charge: Owing to their long history as shock assault troops, the Blood Angels are well known to have the most ferocious and terrifying charges in the galaxy.

- +1 str and initiative on the charge. Unwieldy weapons become initiative 2 when charging. Additionally, the blood Angels unit adds 2 to their combat result on the turn they charge. Disordered charges do not benefit from the initiative bonus or combat result bonus, but keep the strength bonus.

Born for the sky: All Blood Angels keep their jump pack well maintained and are experts of aerial combat, possibly owing to their primarch's winged nature.

-Any Blood Angel tactical squad may pay 3 points a model to swap their wargear for a jump pack assault loadout. Use the Assault marine data sheet for the unit, with the jump packs upgrade, except that the unit is still considered the troops battlefield role.
-Blood Angels equipped with jump packs scatter 1d6 less when deep striking, have the jink special rule, may choose to have sky fire, and may assault zooming flyers and swooping flying monstrous creatures as if they were on the ground. Wounding a flying monstrous creature in combat causes a grounding check at the end of initiative 1. At the end of the combat, instead of any morale checks, the BA unit must move the minimum distance to get at least 1" away from any surviving flyer or flying monstrous creature that successfully remained in the air, and the combat ends. Should a flying monstrous creature be grounded from the assault and live, it is locked in combat with the BA unit instead.

Still not enough to make them amazing, but enough to give them back their identity in the current rule set perhaps.

I would like to see Imperial Fists get a bonus for challenges as it is a part of their culture and tradition to duel. Something like they get 1 re-roll to hit and 1 to wound in a challenge or something.

Ultramarines getting a supplement would be nice.

Or, I would even take being able to use three doctrines in any combination. So three Devastator doctrines, or two and an assault...

That or doctrines + combat tactics back again....

Blood Angels assaulting airborne would be the gak.
Also wouldn't it just be easier to make Assault Marines troops again, as opposed to saying Tactical squads can use the Assault Marine entry?

Slayer-Fan123: I'm mostly satisfied with TL. My main annoyances are little things really. I feel the Legion Tactics should be more general-purpose, the Legion detachments more specific, rather than the other way around for certain ones (like Word Bearers).

Plus stuff like Legion tactics making distinctive Legion units more obsolete is always funny too. And 1k Sons getting hosed of course.

It also would be nice for Helbrutes to get VOTLW too, just so Loyalist Dreads don't get all the fun. There's still something silly and fluff-breaking about a White Scars Ironclad wave-dashing around the map.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Slayer-Fan123: I'm mostly satisfied with TL. My main annoyances are little things really. I feel the Legion Tactics should be more general-purpose, the Legion detachments more specific, rather than the other way around for certain ones (like Word Bearers).

Plus stuff like Legion tactics making distinctive Legion units more obsolete is always funny too. And 1k Sons getting hosed of course.

It also would be nice for Helbrutes to get VOTLW too, just so Loyalist Dreads don't get all the fun. There's still something silly and fluff-breaking about a White Scars Ironclad wave-dashing around the map.

Oh of course. You'd see in the one thread I created in here for CSM I gave them different flavors. So I'd mostly combine that with the fixes traitor legions gave.

I also don't mind the idea of Helbrutes gaining VotLW, but not a lot of them will apply to the unit itself.

Carcharadons:
-ANY model may trade their bolter for a chainsword at no additional cost, or may purchase a chainsword for 1ppm.

-characters may purchase eviscerators and lightning claws (single or paired) at their normal price, ignoring unit restrictions (like 2 max for assault marines)

-furious charge always

-rage and zealot after they kill/sweep/win combat

Tyberos, the Red Wake gains Rampage

Black Templars
Zealot
Adamantium Will
All Psykers except those with the Grey Knights faction are treated at best as desperate allies. Cannot take any psykers in a Black Templar Detachment.
(Change to Crusader Squad). Add the "Into the Fray" rule. "Into the Fray" At the end of the enemy Psychic or Shooting phase if this unit suffers any model loses during that phase then the unit may make a run action.

Martel732 wrote:
Blood angels get furious charge AND +1 init on charge from chapter tactics even on disordered charges.

Their formations then grant some other bonus that's actually worthwhile. And SW would STILL be better, but it would be nice.

Don't forget, the +1 Initiative would be factored in AFTER rules like Unwieldy are applied. So Power Fists would Strike at Initiative 2. And all the various formations that contain the Red Thirst (such as the Angel's Blade and Battle Demi-Company) would stack Initiative bonuses.

Imperial Fists would have a bonus where they can always take +1 Fortification, even if their Formation does not have a slot for one. So an Imperial Fists CAD could take two Fortifications.

I don't know. Are init 2 power fists necessary?

Martel732 wrote:
I don't know. Are init 2 power fists necessary?

Depends, do BA have anything that really sets them apart as a melee-focused Chapter other than +1 Strength on the Charge? They are also stuck in combat once they charge, unlike White Scars or Dark Angels. I wouldn't mind BA getting something like the old True Grit rules where they count Boltguns as CCWs.

FireSkullz2 wrote:
Iron Hands need some sort of nerf. 2 up invuln and 2 up FNP? Screw that.

This could probably be fixed with a simple "+1 to FNP, to a maximum of 3+" (or maybe 4+), and stipulating that the Gorgon's Chain confers a 3++ that cannot be further modified. You could still use the Shield Eternal, but that doesn't confer +1 FNP and is a storm shield, so no dual-wielding, while you still can with the Chain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
I don't know. Are init 2 power fists necessary?

Honestly, yeah. It'd give BA a substantial advantage over other folks with slow-but-strong weapons. Now, that would be kind of a kick in the teeth to MANZ, who don't really need one, but they could get buffed separately (like, say, making all Orks I3 and Power Klaws not unwieldy, perhaps?)

I'd see Iron Hands with their 30k ruling that makes weapons -1 st when attacking them with a flat 5+ fnp. That may be too much though.

I'm not sure but I would give salamanders flamers shred. (unless they can already do this)

jade_angel wrote:
Honestly, yeah. It'd give BA a substantial advantage over other folks with slow-but-strong weapons. Now, that would be kind of a kick in the teeth to MANZ, who don't really need one, but they could get buffed separately (like, say, making all Orks I3 and Power Klaws not unwieldy, perhaps?)

Or give Mega Armour +1 Toughness which solves everything. They still die to the extremely strong stuff like Demolishers and Smash attacks but can bear the brunt of most attacks.

I'd change White Scars to only allow Hit and Run for bikes and jump pack units. They treat Walker Vehicles as AoC (Dreadnoughts can take Drop Pod and embark though).

Imperial Fists get Stubborn.

I like the +1 Initiative on Blood Angels idea.

Salamanders can take Heavy Flamers and Hand Flamers.

Iron Hands get 30k rules.

Ultramarines are fine.

Raven Guard...uhh Stealth? Can't remember their rules.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Blood Angels assaulting airborne would be the gak.
Also wouldn't it just be easier to make Assault Marines troops again, as opposed to saying Tactical squads can use the Assault Marine entry?

It has to be phrased that way for all the people who shout "but but codex astartes!!!" They don't understand that asm were troops not because they have more asm than normal, but because they train as asm first and keep their jump pack for their career in case they need to deploy as one again.

Take every Legion and bring the old Heresy-era tools back out of the closet. Where are my Flame Projectors? Why did Raven Guard forget how to Infiltrate + Scout Rhinos? What happened to the Grenade Harnesses? Why did the Ultramarines once have enough Cyclone launchers to stick on every Terminator and then forget about them? Where are the epic murder scythes the Death Guard ought to be hauling about?