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GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Sure but you still have to roll that trait which is random! So your powers are still randomly being determined.

Gah if there is one part of 40k's current version that I really detest its the random tables for warlord traits and psyker powers. 40k and every other wargame out there is always "unrealistic" because we can pick and choose virtually every thing about our armies. Either we should be able to pick and choose everything about the force we field from the tanks to the skills of our commander, or every force org slot and wargear option should be a random table.

Sorry had to get that off my chest

Oh I agree, it was the silliest change they made with 6th ed IMO, well all the random generation was. You are paying points for things, they should not be random.

I think we have some Chaos rules in here as well. Could be wrong though.

Uncontrolled Mutation Randomly select a Psyker on the Battlefield and roll 2 dice. If the result is equal to or greater than the model's Leadership characteristic it is slain. If there is a Chaos Spawn model available then before removing that psyker as a casualty both players roll off. Who ever wins controls the Chaos Spawn for the rest of the game.

So do you think this is an Eldar power or Chaos power?

Quick question regarding the end of Gathering Storm I, did the Geminae Superia die or not? I have read it as I have the book but I can't remember if they survived the battle or not. I don't have access to the book at the moment and I'd really like to know the answer.

I know they died and Celestine resurrected them but did they survive all the way into the webway?

There noted as fighting alongside Celestine after the pylons fail, but nothing after that. I'm assuming they survived as there deaths would have merited a passing mention at the very least.

The Ynnari strike me as a faction that is close ranged and in the enemy's faces and/or is tightly clustered together themselves, if they want to use their special rules. Many of their special gear and the psychic powers are also relatively short ranged.

Yvraine's special rule of increasing her mastery level means she is less than 4 to start with, but is at least 1. So she is generating by herself at least from 2-4 warp charges. The Yncarne is also apparently a psyker. I'm wondering whether there is the option for other generic Eldar psykers to take from the Revenant list.

Seems like the best way to get rid of the Yncarne would be to focus on it exclusively, since its special rule allows it the chance to heal any time an Aeldari model is killed in its vicinity. Of course that also suggests one way to run the Yncarne is as a distraction the enemy cannot ignore.

Here's a compilation in brief of what we know so far about how this army works, my sources are these rules, the livestream, and a bit of speculation.

The Ynnari will be a new faction of Aeldari (used in the rules as a catchall term for all eldar factions, just as Armies of the Imperium is used), made up of units from the existing eldar factions.

SPECULATION: The Reborn Warhost Detachment will be in the same vein as Castellans of the Imperium, and will be the main way to make your eldar into Ynnari, however the formations will undoubtedly also count as Ynnari. I say this because the rule "warhost of ynnead" has a requirement of numbers of units similar to how Castellans was set up.

The Ynnari will cease to be Eldar/Dark Eldar/Harlequins, meaning they LOSE the racial traits of Power from Pain/Battlefocus/nothing for the harlequins (sad clown tear.) However, they GAIN "strength from death" enabling them to use the Soulburst actions.

The benefit of the Warhost detachment seems to be the Stubborn/no morale checks for losing 25% rule as that one calls out "detachment" and not "formation." It also will undoubtedly have the "Warhost of Ynnead" rule.

SPECULATION: We know that the haemonculus covens from DE will not be in this detachment. I suspect/hope that the only way to get Eldar Wraith units with the Ynnari faction will be through the formation containing them, and I hope there will be no wraithknights. A Wraithknight with access to Strength from Death would be terrifying. Whether we will see things like the other aspects besides DA, covenite DE units, or Harlequin Solitaires...who knows, but this is very likely to be a pretty open detachment.

Formations: We know there are 5, and 4 of them are on the GW site (at least one possible incarnation)

Aeldari Bladehost (Resisting urge to just call it the Carnival of Suck): Wytches, Storm Guardians, Regular guardians (?), Harlequin Troupes. They get the furious charge buff (from the leaked WD image) and a couple other bonuses.

Whispering Ghost Hall: 3 WG (Possibly swappable with Blades?), 2 WL, Spiritseer, Farseer, Shadowseer. Probably get the "reroll 1s to hit on units 12" away from characters" and almost certainly get the -2 to enemy fear tests benefit. The main benefit of this formation is probably just getting Wraith units with Strength from Death, because as they didn't have Battlefocus to begin with, they'r enot really giving anything up for it.

Ynnead's Net: EDIT: Pointed out that I miscounted the formations. This formation gets the rule that mentions Warlock Conclaves (being the only formation that includes them) as well as the Net Tightens rule. Very neat, definitely can see its uses and again, I like that this benefits the short-range units more than just being another vehicle for scatterbike abuse...though you'd undoubtedly want to use a unit of scatterbikes as the unit that has to come in from your own board edge to make use of that range.

Soulbound Vanguard: Yvraine's personal homies. Given the flavor text, I'm guessing the "United in Death, United in Life" rules are this formation.

Eldar Triumvirate Formation: Gets the "fearless within 12" if 2, fearless army wide if 3" benefit, as well as the "Ynneads chosen" rule.


Revenant Discipline: There is a rule that states any psykers with the Ynnari faction can roll on the Revenant table. We know what the powers are and what they cost.

There are only 5 formations in the book. The bonus warp charges on the warlock conclave belongs to the Ynnead's Net formation, because its the only one with a warlock conclave in it

Red_Drake wrote:
There are only 5 formations in the book. The bonus warp charges on the warlock conclave belongs to the Ynnead's Net formation, because its the only one with a warlock conclave in it

Yep, you're right, edited. Sorry, I thought the blurb said "5 formations plus the triumvirate" rather than "including the triumvirate" so i thought there was one missing.

Either way, my overall verdict so far is that this could either be a very fun, cool new way to play eldar without being insanely broken....or Wraithknights could be an option in a Reborn Warhost like knights were in the Castellans detachment and it'll just be an even more absurdly OP way to run a scatpack list. Please GW, don't do it, don't give another tool to the powergamers and put another round of ammo in the eldar haters arsenal.

Important to note that its 5 Ynnari formations, I entirely expect a couple more outside of those, like an Ulthwe Strikeforce or something.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
Quick question regarding the end of Gathering Storm I, did the Geminae Superia die or not? I have read it as I have the book but I can't remember if they survived the battle or not. I don't have access to the book at the moment and I'd really like to know the answer.

I know they died and Celestine resurrected them but did they survive all the way into the webway?

They survived the fight with Abaddon (p81) and are with Celestine when she emerges - they then join their sisters who evacuate to the Iron Revenant. They are not mentioned by name but I assume they join their sisters and Cestine and head into the wbeway with the Mecanicus, Black Templars and House Taranis Knight - the latter commanded by Baroness Vardus

Davor wrote:
I think we have some Chaos rules in here as well. Could be wrong though.

Uncontrolled Mutation Randomly select a Psyker on the Battlefield and roll 2 dice. If the result is equal to or greater than the model's Leadership characteristic it is slain. If there is a Chaos Spawn model available then before removing that psyker as a casualty both players roll off. Who ever wins controls the Chaos Spawn for the rest of the game.

So do you think this is an Eldar power or Chaos power?

It's a Battlezone: Empyric Storm effect. Also quite similar to one of the boon of chaos results.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

Davor wrote:
I think we have some Chaos rules in here as well. Could be wrong though.

Uncontrolled Mutation Randomly select a Psyker on the Battlefield and roll 2 dice. If the result is equal to or greater than the model's Leadership characteristic it is slain. If there is a Chaos Spawn model available then before removing that psyker as a casualty both players roll off. Who ever wins controls the Chaos Spawn for the rest of the game.

So do you think this is an Eldar power or Chaos power?

It's a Battlezone: Empyric Storm effect. Also quite similar to one of the boon of chaos results.

Thank you. I still don't know what a Battlezone so it's not something new. Sorry to waste everyone's time.

So looking at warhost of ynnead it says that when a unit makes a soulburst attack etc you can nominate another unit to also make one, does that mean the second unit doesn't need to be in range of the destroyed unit, that could be very handy to get some extra shots out of the longer range units.

Im just sitting here hoping book 3 has Ultramarines relics/warlord traits/formations.

Just waiting for the stat-lines and rules for the Eldar Triumvirate, now. I'm curious as to how much of a beat-stick the Visarch is going to be.

 Robin5t wrote:
Just waiting for the stat-lines and rules for the Eldar Triumvirate, now. I'm curious as to how much of a beat-stick the Visarch is going to be.

Pure speculation but:

With his sword he's probably S6, AP 2 at high WS/initiative.

I imagine 4 attacks base rising to 7 with character deaths.

Eternal Warrior will be nice - possibly FNP 4+ as well (depending on whether the 6+ for everyone is a baseline or formation rule), although given the almost inevitable T3 that's probably not as valuable.

I'd guess he has reasonable saves - probably 2+ or 3+ with a 4++.

Probably means he is okay in challenges but not dramatically more damaging than a tooled up Striking Scorpion Exarch.

Like most characters he will probably be overcosted in pure damage output terms. I mean three dead MEQ on the charge? Okay I guess but not great if he is around 150~ points or more.

after picking up my White Dwarf mag yesterday, i am even more excited to pick up my Eldar Triumvirate box next weekend than i was just from the leaked pics...

Yvraine looks exactly how i always imagined Lady Malys to look, and it has been a long wait for this model...
plus, the Gyrinx is the cutest little space lynx
after the disappointment of the poor metal cast that Raging Heroes released for their not-Malys more than 5 years ago, this beautiful plastic fig. will make up for that big letdown...

the Visarch is the Eldar warrior miniature i have been waiting 30 years for...
it combines everything that i like about Eldar/Dark Eldar into one mini...
the armor and fur are amazing!!!
i'm even coming around to liking the helmet, the more i look at the quality pics...

the Yncarne is my least favorite of the bunch, but looks like a good project for a painting contest...
the sculptors are getting much better at sculpting energy effects/fire these days...
i was not sold on the effects when they released the Burning Chariot and the Coven Throne, but they seem to have gotten it right over the last couple of years...

it's going to be a long week...

cheers
jah

Tyel wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
Just waiting for the stat-lines and rules for the Eldar Triumvirate, now. I'm curious as to how much of a beat-stick the Visarch is going to be.

Pure speculation but:

With his sword he's probably S6, AP 2 at high WS/initiative.

I imagine 4 attacks base rising to 7 with character deaths.

Eternal Warrior will be nice - possibly FNP 4+ as well (depending on whether the 6+ for everyone is a baseline or formation rule), although given the almost inevitable T3 that's probably not as valuable.

I'd guess he has reasonable saves - probably 2+ or 3+ with a 4++.

Probably means he is okay in challenges but not dramatically more damaging than a tooled up Striking Scorpion Exarch.

Like most characters he will probably be overcosted in pure damage output terms. I mean three dead MEQ on the charge? Okay I guess but not great if he is around 150~ points or more.

The Phoenix Lords are T4, if he's 'above all previous Eldar close combat characters' like they made him out to be then that's a necessity, really.

 Robin5t wrote:

Tyel wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
Just waiting for the stat-lines and rules for the Eldar Triumvirate, now. I'm curious as to how much of a beat-stick the Visarch is going to be.

Pure speculation but:

With his sword he's probably S6, AP 2 at high WS/initiative.

I imagine 4 attacks base rising to 7 with character deaths.

Eternal Warrior will be nice - possibly FNP 4+ as well (depending on whether the 6+ for everyone is a baseline or formation rule), although given the almost inevitable T3 that's probably not as valuable.

I'd guess he has reasonable saves - probably 2+ or 3+ with a 4++.

Probably means he is okay in challenges but not dramatically more damaging than a tooled up Striking Scorpion Exarch.

Like most characters he will probably be overcosted in pure damage output terms. I mean three dead MEQ on the charge? Okay I guess but not great if he is around 150~ points or more.

The Phoenix Lords are T4, if he's 'above all previous Eldar close combat characters' like they made him out to be then that's a necessity, really.

I think/hope he'll be stronger than that. Lets look at Drazhar's stats for a moment:

WS 7 BS 7 S4 T4 W3 I7 A4 Ld 10 S2+ with Eternal Warrior and some other rules at 190 points.

Now I imagine the Visarch has to be either around that level but cheaper, or around 200 points (like Cawl and Celestine) and with better stats than Drazhar, or what's the point?
He'll either be Drazhar stats but with more synergy in his special rules for about 150, or a beast at around 200 points. I'm hoping for the latter. Eldar have a lot of glass hammer CC characters, I say with him they ought to go big or go home.

Davor wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

Davor wrote:
I think we have some Chaos rules in here as well. Could be wrong though.

Uncontrolled Mutation Randomly select a Psyker on the Battlefield and roll 2 dice. If the result is equal to or greater than the model's Leadership characteristic it is slain. If there is a Chaos Spawn model available then before removing that psyker as a casualty both players roll off. Who ever wins controls the Chaos Spawn for the rest of the game.

So do you think this is an Eldar power or Chaos power?

It's a Battlezone: Empyric Storm effect. Also quite similar to one of the boon of chaos results.

Thank you. I still don't know what a Battlezone so it's not something new. Sorry to waste everyone's time.

It's just rules for the game you're playing, if you so choose.

The various Echoes of War missions from "Fall of Cadia" have them in effect.

There's 36 different effects, ranging from "All dice rolls of 1 are counted as a 6, all dice rolls of 6 are counted as a 1"("Unreality Reigns"--and a personal favorite of mine ). Each player rolls one at the start of their turn, and the effects last until their next turn.

Colonel Cabbage wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:

Tyel wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
Just waiting for the stat-lines and rules for the Eldar Triumvirate, now. I'm curious as to how much of a beat-stick the Visarch is going to be.

Pure speculation but:

With his sword he's probably S6, AP 2 at high WS/initiative.

I imagine 4 attacks base rising to 7 with character deaths.

Eternal Warrior will be nice - possibly FNP 4+ as well (depending on whether the 6+ for everyone is a baseline or formation rule), although given the almost inevitable T3 that's probably not as valuable.

I'd guess he has reasonable saves - probably 2+ or 3+ with a 4++.

Probably means he is okay in challenges but not dramatically more damaging than a tooled up Striking Scorpion Exarch.

Like most characters he will probably be overcosted in pure damage output terms. I mean three dead MEQ on the charge? Okay I guess but not great if he is around 150~ points or more.

The Phoenix Lords are T4, if he's 'above all previous Eldar close combat characters' like they made him out to be then that's a necessity, really.

I think/hope he'll be stronger than that. Lets look at Drazhar's stats for a moment:

WS 7 BS 7 S4 T4 W3 I7 A4 Ld 10 S2+ with Eternal Warrior and some other rules at 190 points.

Now I imagine the Visarch has to be either around that level but cheaper, or around 200 points (like Cawl and Celestine) and with better stats than Drazhar, or what's the point?
He'll either be Drazhar stats but with more synergy in his special rules for about 150, or a beast at around 200 points. I'm hoping for the latter. Eldar have a lot of glass hammer CC characters, I say with him they ought to go big or go home.

He's an Eldar, he should still be a glass cannon. We already know his sword will be +2S, AP2 and I can easily see the rest of his stats being equivalent to a Phoenix Lord but it's his special rules that will make or break him. Rage, Hatred, Furious Charge and Rampage, or any combination there of, would make him pretty awesome.

We know he has the special rule "Silence", forcing enemies within 3" to take LD tests on the lowest Leadership.

We also know that he has "Warden of Yvraine", allowing him to auto-pass for Glorious Interventions in Yvraine's place and her to do LoS on him instead of generic models.

 Kanluwen wrote:
We know he has the special rule "Silence", forcing enemies within 3" to take LD tests on the lowest Leadership.

We also know that he has "Warden of Yvraine", allowing him to auto-pass for Glorious Interventions in Yvraine's place and her to do LoS on him instead of generic models.

Silence is the swords special rule, and could be very useful in sweeping advance when not playing against armies with And They Are Broken. Warden of Yvrain might be a special rule he has or it might be from a formation (I'm thinking of the one with all three of the new models in it), this one doesn't really do anything to make him better in combat though. Beyond that glossary, we've seen nothing to show us what his stats are, what he's equipped with (other than Asu-Var, the Sword of Silent Screams) and what USR's he's been given.

Makes these guys and their unit super survivable tbh, take a wound on yvrain, pass the next on to the visarch, kill a guy in the unit, regen wounds, repeat plus the visarch has probably got a 2+ save with that fancy armour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stick them in a warlock conclaive and watch the visarchs attacks increase as the warlocks die

 Imateria wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
We know he has the special rule "Silence", forcing enemies within 3" to take LD tests on the lowest Leadership.

We also know that he has "Warden of Yvraine", allowing him to auto-pass for Glorious Interventions in Yvraine's place and her to do LoS on him instead of generic models.

Silence is the swords special rule, and could be very useful in sweeping advance when not playing against armies with And They Are Broken. Warden of Yvrain might be a special rule he has or it might be from a formation (I'm thinking of the one with all three of the new models in it), this one doesn't really do anything to make him better in combat though. Beyond that glossary, we've seen nothing to show us what his stats are, what he's equipped with (other than Asu-Var, the Sword of Silent Screams) and what USR's he's been given.

"Silence" is a rule that is on the artifact, and it is exactly what I posted. Enemies within 3" of the Visarch take Leadership tests on their lowest Leadership. It's not "in combat" or anything like that. It's just flat 3".

Go look at the glossary again. You can see get a sense of what stuff is or is not formation or detachment-based, as it will actually say "formation" or "detachment". You can also spot what is tied to specific characters, beyond standard USRs.

Warden of Yvraine--If the Visarch is in a unit with Yvraine, you can choose for Yvraine to pass Look Out, Sir rolls automatically. If you do so, you must allocate the Wounds to the Visarch. Additionally, the Visarch always passes the Initiative test when making a Glorious Intervention to take Yvraine's place.

Notice the wording. "If the Visarch is in a unit with Yvraine". That wording is similar to Jarran Kell, meaning it would be a special rule on him rather than formation.

Champion of Ynnead--Whenever an Aeldari model is slain within 7" of the Visarch, roll a dice. On a 4+, the Visarch immediately regains a lost Wound. If that model was a character, add 1 to the Visarch's Attacks characteristic (to a maximum of 7).

Way of the Visarch--The Visarch always has a Warlord Trait generated from the Ynnari Warlord Traits table, even if he is not your Warlord. For the purposes of this Warlord Trait, the Visarch is considered to be your Warlord.

That's what we know he has. We don't have his statlines (we can assume he's below 6 attacks, as otherwise Champion of Ynnead is kind of useless).

If its like the first book I suspect we won't get stats until Tuesday or Wednesday.

 Mantle wrote:
Makes these guys and their unit super survivable tbh, take a wound on yvrain, pass the next on to the visarch, kill a guy in the unit, regen wounds, repeat plus the visarch has probably got a 2+ save with that fancy armour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stick them in a warlock conclaive and watch the visarchs attacks increase as the warlocks die

The issue with that is you can only really tank with one if all the wounds are coming from the same side. Look Out Sir! only goes to the closest model, so Yvraine could shirk to Visarch, but wounds could only go to those two while being shot from that angle. You could lead with the Visarch (assuming he has a better save) and tank wounds til he fails one, then pass wounds off to minions til he heals up. Rinse and repeat, to take more advantage of that good save and bonus wounds.

Are Warlock Conclaves characters anymore? I think that got taken away.

Goobi2 wrote:

 Mantle wrote:
Makes these guys and their unit super survivable tbh, take a wound on yvrain, pass the next on to the visarch, kill a guy in the unit, regen wounds, repeat plus the visarch has probably got a 2+ save with that fancy armour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stick them in a warlock conclaive and watch the visarchs attacks increase as the warlocks die

The issue with that is you can only really tank with one if all the wounds are coming from the same side. Look Out Sir! only goes to the closest model, so Yvraine could shirk to Visarch, but wounds could only go to those two while being shot from that angle. You could lead with the Visarch (assuming he has a better save) and tank wounds til he fails one, then pass wounds off to minions til he heals up. Rinse and repeat, to take more advantage of that good save and bonus wounds.

Are Warlock Conclaves characters anymore? I think that got taken away.

Warlock conclaves count as infantry and warlocks aren't characters in that unit in fact the Codex properly differences between Warlock (conclave unit as inf) and Warlock Leader (windriders and guardians units as character).

The thing comes that being allowed to take a mix of units nothing stops you to take Several mandrakes units for 48 points as shield units and slingshot him along this way you get 3x Ablative wounds plus 1x character and stealth and shroud until you reach melee range with the Visarch

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
We know he has the special rule "Silence", forcing enemies within 3" to take LD tests on the lowest Leadership.

We also know that he has "Warden of Yvraine", allowing him to auto-pass for Glorious Interventions in Yvraine's place and her to do LoS on him instead of generic models.

Silence is the swords special rule, and could be very useful in sweeping advance when not playing against armies with And They Are Broken. Warden of Yvrain might be a special rule he has or it might be from a formation (I'm thinking of the one with all three of the new models in it), this one doesn't really do anything to make him better in combat though. Beyond that glossary, we've seen nothing to show us what his stats are, what he's equipped with (other than Asu-Var, the Sword of Silent Screams) and what USR's he's been given.

"Silence" is a rule that is on the artifact, and it is exactly what I posted. Enemies within 3" of the Visarch take Leadership tests on their lowest Leadership. It's not "in combat" or anything like that. It's just flat 3".

Go look at the glossary again. You can see get a sense of what stuff is or is not formation or detachment-based, as it will actually say "formation" or "detachment". You can also spot what is tied to specific characters, beyond standard USRs.

Warden of Yvraine--If the Visarch is in a unit with Yvraine, you can choose for Yvraine to pass Look Out, Sir rolls automatically. If you do so, you must allocate the Wounds to the Visarch. Additionally, the Visarch always passes the Initiative test when making a Glorious Intervention to take Yvraine's place.

Notice the wording. "If the Visarch is in a unit with Yvraine". That wording is similar to Jarran Kell, meaning it would be a special rule on him rather than formation.

Champion of Ynnead--Whenever an Aeldari model is slain within 7" of the Visarch, roll a dice. On a 4+, the Visarch immediately regains a lost Wound. If that model was a character, add 1 to the Visarch's Attacks characteristic (to a maximum of 7).

Way of the Visarch--The Visarch always has a Warlord Trait generated from the Ynnari Warlord Traits table, even if he is not your Warlord. For the purposes of this Warlord Trait, the Visarch is considered to be your Warlord.

That's what we know he has. We don't have his statlines (we can assume he's below 6 attacks, as otherwise Champion of Ynnead is kind of useless).

Are you deliberately being this obtuse? Constantly repeating the wording of the rule Silence (which is still on his sword Asu-Var) like the rest of us are illiterate makes no difference what so ever, with a radius of only 3" the only time it's ever going to be used is in combat. I'd also be careful in how you use the term artefact, thats the term used in Eldar books for the list of relic options they can use and Asu Var, just like the swords used by Yvrain or the Avatar, are not artefacts.

Most importantly my point was that without knowing what other USR's the Visarch has or his statline it's impossible to know exactly how effective he is going to be in combat. Constantly spouting out what the known special rules are doesn't help.

I'm also unconvinced how useful Warden of Yvrain is going to be. An Archon with a Huskblade doesn't tend to be that useful next to Incubi, the lack of AP2 tends to mean he's not the one doing the work, and with Yvrains Kha-Vir being a Huskblade with +1S I've got a good idea that you'd want the two characters in different units.

Tyel wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
Just waiting for the stat-lines and rules for the Eldar Triumvirate, now. I'm curious as to how much of a beat-stick the Visarch is going to be.

Pure speculation but:

With his sword he's probably S6, AP 2 at high WS/initiative.

What is the sword called? They have sword names with stats and other items in there as well. I can check if you like. Just need the name.