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I agree that it added new breath (literally) into the army and I like how it changes the story, with the Wraith units WILLINGLY following the god of the dead's emissary because they are far more awake than they have been.

 Crimson wrote:
I really don't get why red is the Ynnari colour to begin with. Seems more Khainite colour to me.

Agreed. The whole colour choice doesn't quite speak to me. There's so much potential in the phrase 'Eldar Death Cult' that just hasn't been realised with the whole 'paint your Dire Avengers red' idea.

That's something I plan to remedy very shortly!

 winterman wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Correct. Ulthwe have the highest concentration of militia citizens or Guardians. They also have the highest amount of psykers.

Right and they are know to deploy those psychers primarily via seer councils. The absence of them in black guardians was disapointing and was not the case in the original Ulthwe strike force, but not necessarily un-fluffy. You can still take tons of psychers elsewhere.

They are known to deploy them as Seer Councils, but also in Guardian squads. Ulthwe's whole schtick is that due to their proximity to the Eye of Terror, their population exhibits a lot more psychic potential than usual. Thus, they end up with loads of people on the Path of the Seer, which being treacherous and long results in few following the Path of the Warrior. So, they rely heavily on Guardians supported by their high quantity of Warlocks.

I know you can fluff your way around it by saying 'well, maybe they just deploy them differently', but it absolutely seems like the least obvious/helpful/fluffy solution to actively prevent Black Guardians from taking Warlocks.

I'd say you've hit the nail on the head though. It's not an outrage. It's just thoroughly disappointing.

It's like making TSons Rubric squads, but giving them normal Sarges rather than Sorcerors. Not necessarily unfluffy. It'd just be better the other way around.

Not all of them go "full red". In the book's color schemes, they show Eldar who keep their shrine colors / homeworld / Gang but mark their Ynnari allegiance with a small red piece or Ynnari's rune. Heck, it seems some eldar have to hide their new "religion", so they don't show it at all.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Not all of them go "full red". In the book's color schemes, they show Eldar who keep their shrine colors / homeworld / Gang but mark their Ynnari allegiance with a small red piece or Ynnari's rune. Heck, it seems some eldar have to hide their new "religion", so they don't show it at all.

Exactly and that makes no sense. How can a dark eldar in a cabal hide it? Wouldn't they be executed on site? And how can any eldar support the Ynnari without going out and joining their ranks... I understand people not wanting to repaint their armies, and GW recognizes this, but I cannot do that. Fortunately at least in my case, I'm playing Ulthwe, so anything else I add to my army I can just paint in Ynnari colors now.

 nintura wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Not all of them go "full red". In the book's color schemes, they show Eldar who keep their shrine colors / homeworld / Gang but mark their Ynnari allegiance with a small red piece or Ynnari's rune. Heck, it seems some eldar have to hide their new "religion", so they don't show it at all.

Exactly and that makes no sense. How can a dark eldar in a cabal hide it? Wouldn't they be executed on site? And how can any eldar support the Ynnari without going out and joining their ranks... I understand people not wanting to repaint their armies, and GW recognizes this, but I cannot do that. Fortunately at least in my case, I'm playing Ulthwe, so anything else I add to my army I can just paint in Ynnari colors now.

I don't think he means they stay in their Cabal and secretly support the Ynnari. I think he means they go off, join the Ynnari, but don't have time/dont want to fully repaint their armor or vehicles. So a Ynnari army could be painted like Craftworld Lyanden, but with a few Ynnari symbols on them because they're just temporarily going off to fight with the Ynnari, with the idea that eventually they'll return home. Or a Helion gang might keep their traditional gang colors, but paint one section of their armor red or put a Ynnari symbol on their skyboards.

the_scotsman wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Not all of them go "full red". In the book's color schemes, they show Eldar who keep their shrine colors / homeworld / Gang but mark their Ynnari allegiance with a small red piece or Ynnari's rune. Heck, it seems some eldar have to hide their new "religion", so they don't show it at all.

Exactly and that makes no sense. How can a dark eldar in a cabal hide it? Wouldn't they be executed on site? And how can any eldar support the Ynnari without going out and joining their ranks... I understand people not wanting to repaint their armies, and GW recognizes this, but I cannot do that. Fortunately at least in my case, I'm playing Ulthwe, so anything else I add to my army I can just paint in Ynnari colors now.

I don't think he means they stay in their Cabal and secretly support the Ynnari. I think he means they go off, join the Ynnari, but don't have time/dont want to fully repaint their armor or vehicles. So a Ynnari army could be painted like Craftworld Lyanden, but with a few Ynnari symbols on them because they're just temporarily going off to fight with the Ynnari, with the idea that eventually they'll return home. Or a Helion gang might keep their traditional gang colors, but paint one section of their armor red or put a Ynnari symbol on their skyboards.

That's how I am seeing it.

Those that admire from a distance probably don't show allegiance until they decide to fully commit. Then, when it comes to that, they leave to join their ranks instead of risking being outed. I see it as a great reason to field a mish-mash of different eldar being led under Ynnari.

As a side note, has anyone noticed that the digital edition of this book omits Harlequin Troupes from the Reborn Warhost? I have a print book, and they're in there, but a friend of mine sent me this screenshot saying they weren't in his ipad codex:

https://www.grimdarkgaming.com/forum/download/file.php?id=378&mode=view

Hopefully they update the digital edition to correct the error.

the_scotsman wrote:
As a side note, has anyone noticed that the digital edition of this book omits Harlequin Troupes from the Reborn Warhost? I have a print book, and they're in there, but a friend of mine sent me this screenshot saying they weren't in his ipad codex:

https://www.grimdarkgaming.com/forum/download/file.php?id=378&mode=view

Hopefully they update the digital edition to correct the error.

Oh wow! Almost missed that, Thx.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I really don't get why red is the Ynnari colour to begin with. Seems more Khainite colour to me.

Agreed. The whole colour choice doesn't quite speak to me. There's so much potential in the phrase 'Eldar Death Cult' that just hasn't been realised with the whole 'paint your Dire Avengers red' idea.

That's something I plan to remedy very shortly!

From what I read so far, it was nothing other than coincidence: Yvraine's wych cult in Comorragh were the Bloodbrides and she herself wears red, the Visarch joined the Crimson-something- Incubi shrine, so he wears red. The "Reborn" decided to wear the same red as their leaders.

Assembled the Yncarne this evening. Absolutely stunning model. Fragile as hell though.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

From what I read so far, it was nothing other than coincidence: Yvraine's wych cult in Comorragh were the Bloodbrides and she herself wears red, the Visarch joined the Crimson-something- Incubi shrine, so he wears red. The "Reborn" decided to wear the same red as their leaders.

Yeah probably, but it would still have been a conscious decision from the painting/design team. Seems like a bit of a random colour choice, given the subject matter.

My thought process goes that seeing as The Nightbringer imprinted the visage of the reaper as an omen of death among all races in the galaxy (aside from the Orks), that there should be parallels brought through to Ynnead and the Ynnari.

It's what I'll be doing with mine at least

 Ynneadwraith wrote:


My thought process goes that seeing as The Nightbringer imprinted the visage of the reaper as an omen of death among all races in the galaxy (aside from the Orks), that there should be parallels brought through to Ynnead and the Ynnari.

You might have to explain that part because either I have not had nearly enough caffeine to function or it doesn't make sense lol

 nintura wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:


My thought process goes that seeing as The Nightbringer imprinted the visage of the reaper as an omen of death among all races in the galaxy (aside from the Orks), that there should be parallels brought through to Ynnead and the Ynnari.

You might have to explain that part because either I have not had nearly enough caffeine to function or it doesn't make sense lol

Haha! Could be either

One of the neat little tidbits of background for The Nightbringer C'Tan was that it caused so much death and destruction that its visage (that of the grim reaper) was imprinted upon the psyche of every Old One-made race as being synonymous with death. That's where the Grim Reaper comes from (in 40k).

That includes the Eldar, so I'd have expected the Eldar God of Death to have some sort of 'grim reapereyness' about him/her, because when the Eldar picture death they see The Nightbringer, the same as humans

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:


My thought process goes that seeing as The Nightbringer imprinted the visage of the reaper as an omen of death among all races in the galaxy (aside from the Orks), that there should be parallels brought through to Ynnead and the Ynnari.

You might have to explain that part because either I have not had nearly enough caffeine to function or it doesn't make sense lol

Haha! Could be either

One of the neat little tidbits of background for The Nightbringer C'Tan was that it caused so much death and destruction that its visage (that of the grim reaper) was imprinted upon the psyche of every Old One-made race as being synonymous with death. That's where the Grim Reaper comes from (in 40k).

That includes the Eldar, so I'd have expected the Eldar God of Death to have some sort of 'grim reapereyness' about him/her, because when the Eldar picture death they see The Nightbringer, the same as humans

Well, remember, not all death is the grim reaper. The reaper might represent death itself, but Ynnead might represent another form of death (eternal dying, darkness, transportation - think Valkyries, dying itself). Guess I'm not making sense, but there's a difference in dying and death.

But Ynnead is not the Eldar god of death. He's the god of death & Rebirth.
Subtle difference, but I'd say it's an important one

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:


My thought process goes that seeing as The Nightbringer imprinted the visage of the reaper as an omen of death among all races in the galaxy (aside from the Orks), that there should be parallels brought through to Ynnead and the Ynnari.

You might have to explain that part because either I have not had nearly enough caffeine to function or it doesn't make sense lol

Haha! Could be either

One of the neat little tidbits of background for The Nightbringer C'Tan was that it caused so much death and destruction that its visage (that of the grim reaper) was imprinted upon the psyche of every Old One-made race as being synonymous with death. That's where the Grim Reaper comes from (in 40k).

That includes the Eldar, so I'd have expected the Eldar God of Death to have some sort of 'grim reapereyness' about him/her, because when the Eldar picture death they see The Nightbringer, the same as humans

Now, remember, Ynnead is NOT the Eldar God of Death but the Eldar God of the DEAD. Huge difference. Ynnead isn't much about sorrow or mourning, heck, Ynnead represents the first real hope of a different future, thanks to another way they can save their souls and fight back. The Eldar no longer need to hide away in their tiny jewels, now they can take the fight to the enemy, even while dead.
I really like how they also make the constructs truly alive. No more soul-stone and slow and sad constructs, oh no, the ones who had their soul transfered to a wraith-something are nimble, with plenty of energy and actually see and feel the world around them without the help of Spiritseers or warlocks. And they are God damn pissed and ready to fight back Slaanesh

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

Now, remember, Ynnead is NOT the Eldar God of Death but the Eldar God of the DEAD. Huge difference. Ynnead isn't much about sorrow or mourning, heck, Ynnead represents the first real hope of a different future, thanks to another way they can save their souls and fight back. The Eldar no longer need to hide away in their tiny jewels, now they can take the fight to the enemy, even while dead.
I really like how they also make the constructs truly alive. No more soul-stone and slow and sad constructs, oh no, the ones who had their soul transfered to a wraith-something are nimble, with plenty of energy and actually see and feel the world around them without the help of Spiritseers or warlocks. And they are God damn pissed and ready to fight back Slaanesh

Aha! Now I get the distinction, thanks guys

Not the God of Death, but a God of the Eldar Dead. A literal reflection of the souls of their dead.

Still going to make mine more reaper-y though I've got a couple of neat ideas I want to try out

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

Now, remember, Ynnead is NOT the Eldar God of Death but the Eldar God of the DEAD. Huge difference. Ynnead isn't much about sorrow or mourning, heck, Ynnead represents the first real hope of a different future, thanks to another way they can save their souls and fight back. The Eldar no longer need to hide away in their tiny jewels, now they can take the fight to the enemy, even while dead.
I really like how they also make the constructs truly alive. No more soul-stone and slow and sad constructs, oh no, the ones who had their soul transfered to a wraith-something are nimble, with plenty of energy and actually see and feel the world around them without the help of Spiritseers or warlocks. And they are God damn pissed and ready to fight back Slaanesh

Aha! Now I get the distinction, thanks guys

Not the God of Death, but a God of the Eldar Dead. A literal reflection of the souls of their dead.

Still going to make mine more reaper-y though I've got a couple of neat ideas I want to try out

Yeah I always considered Eldar to consider white the colour of death like some real religions, I have a white death jester somewhere that looks awesome despite my shoddy painting skills.

I think the God of death or dead always has to be black.

When someone dies we wear black in mourning.

Also I always thought that since the plague doctors we have a image of death pre ordained in us.

Vultures, crows (the masks or face) hell a group of crows is called a murder because it was the earliest sign of death we had.

Black because when we where children we seen a doctor come at night to remove the dead. Or when the plague doctors came in black so you could not see the...... Body fluids and such on them.

Not sure where it started but isn't the scyth a refference to the dark harvest or the dead harvest? Like the reaper claims lives and souls like a farmer with his crop?

OgreChubbs wrote:
I think the God of death or dead always has to be black.

If it isn't, 20 million emo kids have been doing it wrong.

I blame "The Crow".

OgreChubbs wrote:
I think the God of death or dead always has to be black.

When someone dies we wear black in mourning.

Not everyone on Earth wears black in mourning. White is the color of traditional color of mourning and death in Asia.

It is also the color of mourning for the Eldar as shown in the novel Path of the Outcast as the Mourners, those on the Path of Grieving, wear white robes in their role.

SeanDrake wrote:


Yeah I always considered Eldar to consider white the colour of death like some real religions, I have a white death jester somewhere that looks awesome despite my shoddy painting skills.

That makes sense to me. Many/most Wraithbone constructs that I've seen are white or mostly white.

 kronk wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
I think the God of death or dead always has to be black.

If it isn't, 20 million emo kids have been doing it wrong.

I blame "The Crow".

Depends on the culture and mythos. In Norse for example, you have Valkyries, or what we'd assume as angels, that would gather the dead to take to Odin's hall to be judged. They do have a god of the dead being Hel/Hela, not really known for black. But her job was to keep the dead there, sort of like Cerberus in the Greek Mythos. Speaking of Greek, Hades certainly didn't fit the bill as he was a normal looking man (for a god). In Babylonian, you have Nergal (again, a normal looking male with a huge beard).

Iracundus wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
I think the God of death or dead always has to be black.

When someone dies we wear black in mourning.

Not everyone on Earth wears black in mourning. White is the color of traditional color of mourning and death in Asia.

It is also the color of mourning for the Eldar as shown in the novel Path of the Outcast as the Mourners, those on the Path of Grieving, wear white robes in their role.

Exactly if people on Earth differ in which colour signifies death, then there's no reason to assume that alien space elves think black means death.

That's a really useful piece of information, thanks Iracundus so we've got evidence that the Eldar associate white with death (although possibly also black given how Death Jesters are painted officially).

TBH, given that craftworlds differ so much culturally between them, and all hailed from different worlds, there's no reason each craftworld has to associate the same colour with death. Path of the Outcast is set on Alaitoc so we know they're white=death, but it would appear that Harlequins think black=death.

The other thing I want to incorporate into my modified Avatar of Ynnead is a change of its face. I think I've come to the conclusion that the eldar face of death isn't a skull, like humans. I think it when Eldar are asked to picture the face of death (or the dead) they picture a faceless man. All wraith constructs, and related things like Spiritseers have blank helmets. Perhaps the blank helmets of Reavers and Wyches are equivalent to skull helmets for humans...

So, I plan on giving my Ynneadvatar a blank face-mask

Who was it that did all the sketches of the eldar? Couldn't we just email him and ask these questions?

 nintura wrote:
Who was it that did all the sketches of the eldar? Couldn't we just email him and ask these questions?

Jes Goodwin?

That's not a bad idea actually...

According to Iyanden fluff, Yellow is the color that Eldar associate with death, or rather mourning. I have unfortunately forgotten where I read that.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Who was it that did all the sketches of the eldar? Couldn't we just email him and ask these questions?

Jes Goodwin?

That's not a bad idea actually...

I thought that's who that was, just didnt want to assume. You should let us know the answers.

thing that has disappointed kme most in these books has been the lack of missions compared to over campaigns. The Red Waaagh was released in a similar format yet featured nearly triple the amount of missions .

 Galef wrote:
According to Iyanden fluff, Yellow is the color that Eldar associate with death, or rather mourning. I have unfortunately forgotten where I read that.

Seems more and more that it differs between craftworld cultures as much (if not more) than it does between Earth cultures. Which, thinking about it, makes a ton of sense seeing as they've been diverging culturally for over 10,000 years at least.

 nintura wrote:

I thought that's who that was, just didnt want to assume. You should let us know the answers.

Shall do!