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In response to this post

Lord Kragan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
Seriously, at this point I think they need a loudspeaker across the internet saying: WE ARE NOT AOSIFYING ·40k. Nonstop.

That is the inherent problem. GW aren't saying anything.

People think they've changed with their webteam putting up cheeky little previews here and there and the odd cool animated trailer. End of the day we still don't know what's coming out and the now once-a-month WD has only made leaks even harder to come by. The secrecy remains in full effect and we don't know if 40K as we know it is going to exist in 6 months time.

"You're being overly dramatic!"

Tell that to all the Warhammer players that were blindsided by AoS. Here it's worse, as we know what that complete paradigm shift actually looks like in practice, and many of us don't want that.

Then there are those of us who despise GW's cynical attempts to rename everything so they can slap a ™ after it. Aelfs? Aeldari? Duardin? Orruks? Ogors? Fyrslyrs? They're Elves and Eldar. Dwafs, Orcs and Ogres. Stop being so pretentious.

THEY HAVE SAID IT GODDAMMIT.


They have said it quite a few times. On facebook, on twitch, on white dwarf and the preview videos. But no, we need to be on alert people! They are clearly going to AoSify this!!!

Eldar, Ogryns, and Orks is being pretentious already. The early are just elves, the second one are just ogres, the later are just a variation of orcs. But because it's been this way from the very beginning people view it with charm.

Now, let's move on to something actually productive.

Can anyone link to GW directly saying this?
I've heard they said they learned from their mistakes, but where exactly did they say no AoSing 40K?

Games day last year they said they were going to streamline the game, cut the bloat, but not go to the same extremes as AoS did and that line has been repeated by the staff at every turn.

Personally I cant wait for 40k to the AoS treatment, keep the fluff in the same place but the game desperately needs a shift away from the ITC fueled sociopathy that has infected the game in recent years.

All the evidence is pointing to GW getting rid of charts, putting tanks and monsters on degrading wound levels, and an app for the entire system, individual data slates (likely with points) and drastic cut in the rules to draw new players. Seriously have you ever tried to explain the game to non hobby friends? AoS is far more approachable.

Not sure the evidence suggest that.

I'd like some stuff to come over (comprehensive unit cards with all their rules, degrading wounds on big stuff), but 40k doesn't need the do-over that Warhammer got.

And I say that as a serious fan of AoS.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
... but 40k doesn't need the do-over that Warhammer got.

Neither did Warhammer...

That depends on what you mean by "AoS-ify" as it seems to be different with everyone I speak with. Rules-wise, we know a simplification, unburdening, remove the encumbrance and bloat of the current version of the game. As far as removing the current setting, that's perhaps what is meant here.

You can take this or leave it, but they've said it during Warhammer Live broadcasts, available for Twitch subscribers for back library and in the note reviewers got for Fall of Cadia they specifically stated this is not a destruction of the universe like Fantasy, rather an exciting advancing narrative campaign to further 40K.

Yes, I take it to mean the setting as well, I don't think anyone would argue 40k needs some cleaning up of the rules.

What I'm asking for is actual quotes or information directly posted online for everyone to access, reassuring them that their army won't become a legacy, or their army invalidated.
As implied in the posted quote, it's everywhere, but I can't find it, and from what I can remember was originally a comment made of they've learned from their mistakes with Age of Sigmar, which itself can't even be validated.

For a company that is being touted as now embracing social media, they seem to be very quiet on this issue, it seems that one state of the union style announcement could easily put this to rest. So are GW really embracing social media?

 insaniak wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
... but 40k doesn't need the do-over that Warhammer got.

Neither did Warhammer...

I'll disagree on that one, though

Lord Kragan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
... but 40k doesn't need the do-over that Warhammer got.

Neither did Warhammer...

I'll disagree on that one, though

While I don't believe it should've been blown up, I do enjoy the resulting era afterwords, so I'm 50/50 on that even as I liked both.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
... but 40k doesn't need the do-over that Warhammer got.

Neither did Warhammer...

I'll disagree on that one, though

Can you provide the link?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the main point of this thread was about how GW is interacting with us, and the way people just assume what has been said and present it as fact, not necessarily 40k or AoS, that's why I posted it in discussions.

GW has said they are bringing 40k to "Minutes to midnight" for the next edition, so I highly doubt they'll blow up the fluff aspect. The game however is going to a varying degree of AoS style rules whether you want to admit it or not.

Like I said earlier. Have any of you tried explaining the rules to non hobbyists? Its a god damn nightmare, my friends circle has tons of board game and card nights but the second you pull out a 100pg rulebook + 100pg codex they are extremely put off. Meanwhile AoS I got 3 of my buddies playing no problem, free app and basic as gak rules and a surprising amount of tactical depth if you aren't a dullard. They are all waiting for it to happen to 40k, and GW is going with the bigger audience.

 TheIronCrow wrote:
GW has said they are bringing 40k to "Minutes to midnight" for the next edition, so I highly doubt they'll blow up the fluff aspect. The game however is going to a varying degree of AoS style rules whether you want to admit it or not.

Like I said earlier. Have any of you tried explaining the rules to non hobbyists? Its a god damn nightmare, my friends circle has tons of board game and card nights but the second you pull out a 100pg rulebook + 100pg codex they are extremely put off. Meanwhile AoS I got 3 of my buddies playing no problem, free app and basic as gak rules and a surprising amount of tactical depth if you aren't a dullard. They are all waiting for it to happen to 40k, and GW is going with the bigger audience.

Yeah, I'm not talking about the rules, and it already was minutes to midnight.

The question is in the title, where did GW say they won't AoS-ify 40k, how are they communicating this information?
Kragan yelled it's being said everywhere, I'm saying its the sort of information that should be everywhere, but it's not.

They said "30 more years of Warhammer 40k" in this video - so that points to at least a non-ending of the galaxy.

Never saw the direct quote, but IIRC AoS was the last big Kirby project - Rountree came after that. I guess they have common sense and a better grasp of their clients (General's Handbook was an example of that) and will be more conservative with 8th chances.

Faith in Roundtree is an indication of nothing - do we have an actual video where the GW staff have denied the AoSing of 40K or a blog or some other linkable quote where this has been explicitly stated?

Not trying to be snarky, but I would feel a sense of comfort if there is verifiable information from GW they aren't going the AoS route. I've actually delayed several purchases until I see what goes down with 8th.

 TheIronCrow wrote:
Personally I cant wait for 40k to the AoS treatment, keep the fluff in the same place but the game desperately needs a shift away from the ITC fueled sociopathy that has infected the game in recent years.

Frankly I think the crunch is in less of a state than the fluff. 40K's universe used to be a stylish, visceral kind of grimdark that took itself just seriously enough to be cool, but never seriously enough to be up its own ass. You had a bunch of arseholes fighting each other for arsehole reasons - everyone was as bad as each other, but you rooted for the Imperium because of all the unspeakably horrible villains in the setting, they were the ones most likely to keep you alive (inb4 Tau - the Tau have always been just as violent, self-interested and self-important as everyone else; they just had more eloquent PR).

Nowadays it all feels very... Marvel Comics. All the menace and subtlety and humour is gone, replaced with hackneyed Good Guys (tm) fighting bland designated villains who are obviously no real threat, but still need to be fought because they are Bad Guys who do Bad Things which are an affront to the Noble Good Guy credo. Every so often there's an "edgy" dude who arises, but he's Rob Liefeld, "Bad Attitude" edgy, rather than actually sinister and menacing. Oooh, here comes Abbadon again! What's he going to do this time? He's such a Bad Dude. I bet he wears his baseball cap back to front and everything! Blech.

I could quite happily live without any of the current fluff as long as the game remained playable.


EDIT: On topic, I don't think GW have specifically said 8th Edition won't be "Age of Emprah". Frankly I hope they do. That would be really funny.

Faith in Roundtree is an indication of nothing - do we have an actual video where the GW staff have denied the AoSing of 40K or a blog or some other linkable quote where this has been explicitly stated?

Not trying to be snarky, but I would feel a sense of comfort if there is verifiable information from GW they aren't going the AoS route. I've actually delayed several purchases until I see what goes down with 8th.

I hate to add to your sense of foreboding, but all the new boxes at my local GW corporate store suddenly have something very telling printed on the back. From what's written on those boxes (and you kind of have to look for it), I can pretty much promise that they are planning on bringing the "Grand Alliance" format to 40k at the very least.

Tycho wrote:

Faith in Roundtree is an indication of nothing - do we have an actual video where the GW staff have denied the AoSing of 40K or a blog or some other linkable quote where this has been explicitly stated?

Not trying to be snarky, but I would feel a sense of comfort if there is verifiable information from GW they aren't going the AoS route. I've actually delayed several purchases until I see what goes down with 8th.

I hate to add to your sense of foreboding, but all the new boxes at my local GW corporate store suddenly have something very telling printed on the back. From what's written on those boxes (and you kind of have to look for it), I can pretty much promise that they are planning on bringing the "Grand Alliance" format to 40k at the very least.

Okay, at this point I think we are reaching the point of paranoia, this comment almost reads like FOLLOW THE SIGNS!!

Okay, at this point I think we are reaching the point of paranoia, this comment almost reads like FOLLOW THE SIGNS!!

Nah. Point I was making is that they literally have the new Grand Alliances written on the backs of all the new boxes. So ... read the fine print I guess? lol

I wouldn't have noticed it myself had the actual store manager not pointed it out.

EDIT:

I suppose it's possible that it's not going to happen, but that same store manager mentioned that they have all been told there are several major components of AoS being brought to 8th ed. so it seems like a lot of that is a done deal.

Tycho wrote:

Okay, at this point I think we are reaching the point of paranoia, this comment almost reads like FOLLOW THE SIGNS!!

Nah. Point I was making is that they literally have the new Grand Alliances written on the backs of all the new boxes. So ... read the fine print I guess? lol

I wouldn't have noticed it myself had the actual store manager not pointed it out.

Which means nothing. It can simply be a way of grouping selling items. Such as Imperium Eldar tau and etc. They do this kind of thing already but did so on a codex per codex basis. It just means they MAY be simplifying their cataloguing system.

Which means nothing. It can simply be a way of grouping selling items. Such as Imperium Eldar tau and etc. They do this kind of thing already but did so on a codex per codex basis. It just means they MAY be simplifying their cataloguing system.

Like I said, it's possible that it's not happening. It just seems like it's a lot more likely that it IS happening. I don't think it will be anywhere near as extreme as what happened to Warhammer, but I at least am pretty certain that there will be multiple elements of Sigmar being brought over into 40k. The Grand Alliance system possibly being one of those things. The Fall of Cadia fluff even starts to set that up fairly well imo.

Background wise, I'd like to refer the board to language used.

Verbatim example?

Warhammer Community wrote:The scene is set for the most epic narrative in the history of the 41st Millennium – a fitting celebration of 30 years of Warhammer 40,000 and a great way to kick off the next 30 years of grim darkness in the far future.

Whilst absolutely not conclusive in itself, it's not suggestive of a change to the main setting's location or nature.

There's others, and I can't remember where I read them (WD I think?), which mention 'the outcome will affect the Galaxy for hundreds of years'

@Mad Doc Grotsnik:

That specific quote could be taken either way honestly. When I look at what's in your post I can see where they might actually be setting up some changes. Not necessarily the location, but possibly the nature. I mean, why even bother saying things like "'the outcome will affect the Galaxy for hundreds of years" if we're just looking at the "same old same old". Like you said though, it's really inconclusive either way.

From my perspective, one of the fluff reasons I think they might be heading at least towards the larger/less discreet Alliance system is the way they set up Fall of Cadia (and keep in mind a lot of forum members appear to only be familiar with the FoC fluff via reviews - I actually have the book). There's plenty of prior fluff examples where an Eldar Farseer pops up and seemingly randomly helps out humanity. I can't remember too many examples where you had such a massive group of Eldar so eagerly willing to help out the IoM as you have in FoC. I mean there's even Dark Eldar helping. Then you add in Trazyn as well as the fact that, outside of the Fists getting wiped out at Ardamantua, I can't remeber a time where the plot armor protecting MULTIPLE Loyalist chapters was almost completely removed so that they actually took severe losses and had real setbacks (to Chaos of all groups).

I'm obviously just speculating here as any of us could be right/wrong, but it just feels too much like they are pushing towards a less severe version of the Fantasy End Times. Do I think 40K will be a totally different game in a totally different setting? No. Do I think there will be a surprisingly stark contrast between the day before 8th Ed and the day after? Absolutely.

There is no evidence to suggest 40k would get the same treatment.

So is your question, "In spite of the lack of evidence, what do we have to believe that this event won't happen?"

Which is a little absurd anyway right?

There is no evidence to suggest that I am not the messiah, so, why do you doubt me when I tell you I am?

Streamlining the rules couldn't hurt. Neither could some minor balance tweaks for the super competitive crowd.

arvendragon wrote:They said "30 more years of Warhammer 40k" in this video - so that points to at least a non-ending of the galaxy.

Well we have more years of Star Trek now. Oh wait it's Star Trek 90210 now.

Point is, you can have 30 more years of something in name only and still have everything changed and be different.

 Marmatag wrote:
There is no evidence to suggest 40k would get the same treatment.

So is your question, "In spite of the lack of evidence, what do we have to believe that this event won't happen?"

Which is a little absurd anyway right?

There is no evidence to suggest that I am not the messiah, so, why do you doubt me when I tell you I am?

Obvious strawman is obvious.

Which means nothing. It can simply be a way of grouping selling items. Such as Imperium Eldar tau and etc. They do this kind of thing already but did so on a codex per codex basis. It just means they MAY be simplifying their cataloguing system.

That ... doesn't make much sense ...

Grand alliances in 40k make sense if you think about them for less than 5 seconds and forget that all the non-eldar xenos factions exist.

So I gauge there to be a 99.9999999% chance GW will do it.

Looking forward to my "Grand alliance destruction" of Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and oh what the hell, Tau.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
... but 40k doesn't need the do-over that Warhammer got.

Neither did Warhammer...

I'll disagree on that one, though

Don't get me wrong, WHFB had issues that needed fixing, but turning it into a completely different game wasn't a 'fix'.

the_scotsman wrote:
Looking forward to my "Grand alliance destruction" of Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and oh what the hell, Tau.

I can see it now.

Grand Alliance: Chaos will be CSM and Daemons.

Grand Alliance: Emprah will be all the "Imperial" factions including AdMech. "Space Marines" will become "Spacecast Eternals" for maximum copyright.

Grand Alliance: Elfs will be Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlequins. Sorry - Aeldar, Dark Aeldar, and Haerlaequaens.

Grand Alliance: Destruction will be Tyranids and Genestealer Cults.

Grand Alliance: Miscellaneous will be Orks, Tau (or rather "Taeu") and Naecrons.

 insaniak wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
... but 40k doesn't need the do-over that Warhammer got.

Neither did Warhammer...

I'll disagree on that one, though

Don't get me wrong, WHFB had issues that needed fixing, but turning it into a completely different game wasn't a 'fix'.

I'm not saying it was the fix, I'm saying that it's a semi-accepted consequence.