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 Exergy wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Chaos should have an advantage as time doesn't work the same in the warp, the production for the 14th chaos incursion could have started 10.000 years ago.

If time goes slower in the warp, that would have a detrimental effect for Chaos preparations.

In the Eye, the CSM have had (very roughly) a couple of hundred years to prepare for their invasion.

On the outside, the IoM have had 10,000 years to prepare.
.

Time doesnt move slower in the warp it moves differently. In some places faster in others slower. The effects of time are different. It is a place without the bounds of laws.

Correct, but there's a trend in the fluff that's written for time-dilation in the warp in that there tends to be more old stuff that comes out of the warp than stuff that ages faster: Surviving Traitor Marines from the Heresy. Reinforcements arriving long after the war's finished (there's mention to ones that arrive before, but it's implied that that's much rarer). etc. etc.

From that, we can infer that on average the effect of the warp is to slow time. There would likely be a high number of outliers where people age much faster (or even backwards), but from the examples provided in the fluff it seems more common that time is slower in warp space.

Of course, that could be due to the fact that it's more interesting to talk about surviving heresy-era astartes than that one time Mr Cadian 45768 went into the warp and came out with grey hair 3 days later, but it's all the evidence we have to go on

Navigators avoid turbulence in the warp so traveling is shortened, making use of the positive way the warp slows time and increase "speed" , chaos demons/renegades/planets live in the turbulence so time could move in any direction or speed, even in the 30k books the perils of warp travel is mentioned, of ships disappearing, arriving in the future or even before the departure time.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Navigators avoid turbulence in the warp so traveling is shortened, making use of the positive way the warp slows time and increase "speed" , chaos demons/renegades/planets live in the turbulence so time could move in any direction or speed, even in the 30k books the perils of warp travel is mentioned, of ships disappearing, arriving in the future or even before the departure time.

Very true, but how many times have you heard of the warp causing premature aging?

I'm definitely not saying that it doesn't happen frequently, only that the net effect of the warp appears to be that it slows down time (on the whole) probably completely wrong given how messy the warp is, but it's a trend I've noticed

Saying that, I do like your idea that avoiding the more turbulent areas shortens travel. That suggests that while the laws in the warp may be completely f*cky compared to our universe, there is some sort of rhyme or reason to them. If that's the case, I can see Hereteks being clever enough to harness that to speed up production.

If it is genuinely completely barmy no laws of physics stay the same one moment to the next then that would be the single worst place in the universe to site a factory

In Lorgars Book the first betrayer, Argel tal goes into the eye of terror (and becomes a possessed marine) according them 6 months passed.
While the fleet was waiting just a minute outside the eye.

So all kind of strange things can happen, also death and pain changes the flow of the warp , Lorgar used the death of planets in Ultramar to create a huge warpstorm,

So a powerful chaos lord/demon could influence the warp to increase production

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
In Lorgars Book the first betrayer, Argel tal goes into the eye of terror (and becomes a possessed marine) according them 6 months passed.
While the fleet was waiting just a minute outside the eye.

So all kind of strange things can happen, also death and pain changes the flow of the warp , Lorgar used the death of planets in Ultramar to create a huge warpstorm,

So a powerful chaos lord/demon could influence the warp to increase production

Aha! There we go I was looking through what fluff I knew for any instance of time flowing faster in the warp than realspace and coming up blank.

I still hold that on average time flows slower though, otherwise all of the traitor marines would have dwindled away to a minority if not outright died out in the 10,000 years between the Heresy and the present day due to sheer probability. If it truly is random, the chances of a Marine with a rough life expectancy of 400-800 years lasting for 10,000 would be fantastically small, resulting in a very low number of Heresy Marines surviving to this day.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
In Lorgars Book the first betrayer, Argel tal goes into the eye of terror (and becomes a possessed marine) according them 6 months passed.
While the fleet was waiting just a minute outside the eye.

So all kind of strange things can happen, also death and pain changes the flow of the warp , Lorgar used the death of planets in Ultramar to create a huge warpstorm,

So a powerful chaos lord/demon could influence the warp to increase production

Aha! There we go I was looking through what fluff I knew for any instance of time flowing faster in the warp than realspace and coming up blank.

I still hold that on average time flows slower though, otherwise all of the traitor marines would have dwindled away to a minority if not outright died out in the 10,000 years between the Heresy and the present day due to sheer probability. If it truly is random, the chances of a Marine with a rough life expectancy of 400-800 years lasting for 10,000 would be fantastically small, resulting in a very low number of Heresy Marines surviving to this day.

If you're interested, I mused on potential temporal effects in the following thread which I still consider headcanon to this day even with the change to the LOTD fluff. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/613298.page

Well I rather like that little theory could very well be true.

It also brings to mind ideas about radical inquisitors trying to intentionally blow the heads of hosts of psykers across the Imperium to try and measure warp currents somehow. Seems like something they'd do

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

I still hold that on average time flows slower though, otherwise all of the traitor marines would have dwindled away to a minority if not outright died out in the 10,000 years between the Heresy and the present day due to sheer probability. If it truly is random, the chances of a Marine with a rough life expectancy of 400-800 years lasting for 10,000 would be fantastically small, resulting in a very low number of Heresy Marines surviving to this day.

For what it's worth the BL supplement claims they are veterans of ten millennia of war, which is odd wording if you have just experienced 200.

Perhaps more interesting is that IA13 revealed to us that most CSM are VOTLW, which has considerable implications regarding both CSM longevity in war and their recruitment speed.

Yeah that's what suggests to me that the warp on average slows down time: that most CSM are VoTLW. There's only three possible explanations for that (knowing that SM live for at most a little over 1000 years, most between 200-800):

1. The warp slows down time, or at least slows down aging
2. They keep getting resurrected by the ruinous powers
3. CSM have found a way to drastically extend their lifespans

Of those two, the first two options are probably most likely

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Yeah that's what suggests to me that the warp on average slows down time: that most CSM are VoTLW. There's only three possible explanations for that (knowing that SM live for at most a little over 1000 years, most between 200-800):

1. The warp slows down time, or at least slows down aging
2. They keep getting resurrected by the ruinous powers
3. CSM have found a way to drastically extend their lifespans

Of those two, the first two options are probably most likely

In the CSM dex I think it explained that VotLW didnt mean that they necessarily fought in the heresy but that they were just very experienced.

Hmm. Another thought about possible advantageous of Chaos.

Without meaning to trivialise real world atrocities in any way shape or form, much like real world terrorists, Chaos needs only be lucky once.

The Imperium is a fix entity, and a known quantity. They can't exactly uproot Forgeworlds or Agri-worlds. They are where they are, and the supply line is similarly largely fixed.

This means Chaos forces, whether a small scale raid or a full Black Crusade (and all the degrees in between) can be planned well in advance - The Imperium's defence is by nature reactionary.

Given a powerful enough unifying Warlord/Warmaster, Chaos can orchestrate seemingly unrelated attacks to peel defenders away from certain locations, if not leaving them necessarily vulnerable or defenceless, certainly far less daunting. Provided the Chaos forces can be held together, and a good proportion not only achieve their goals, but actually stick to them (see World Eaters and Emperors Children being largely unreliable during the Heresy) then nearly any planet can fall.

Of course, that proviso is a Chaos' biggest weakness! A mix of rampant ego, and plain old bat poop insanity means keeping things unified is a right sod. A genuine real world equivalent? The Apprentice. Doesn't matter how simple the actual task might be, the chances of successfully completing it and winning are in the hands of the egos of the cretins they dig up to entertain us.

I mean, the Warp is the Warp. It's really hard to define the advantage of being able to (∩ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)⊃━☆ﾟ. * ・ ｡ your Daemon Engines into place.

So for a rather bellicose explanation add to why the AdMech is the way it is, here is that site. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Adeptus_Mechanicus#Why_Everything_is_so_Grimdark

Read sections Why Everything is so Grimdark and The Religion of the Adeptus Mechanicus. These are probably the best explanations I've seen yet.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Of course, that proviso is a Chaos' biggest weakness! A mix of rampant ego, and plain old bat poop insanity means keeping things unified is a right sod. A genuine real world equivalent? The Apprentice. Doesn't matter how simple the actual task might be, the chances of successfully completing it and winning are in the hands of the egos of the cretins they dig up to entertain us.

Haha! Now that is a perfect analogy