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Currently I have 2 plans:

First one:

Ghost arc with Zahndrek and Orikan. A Lychguard with Scythes + Praetorians stand ready. And the deciever of course + Obyron

The deciever teleports the ghost arcs with all characters to the front lines. And I hope he can get the praetorians too (I will reroll if nescessary).

Then the characters go out and Obyron ports the lychguard to Zahndrek. In the first turn the Praetorians will shoot at something, the Lychguard and Obyron will charge. In the end I will have 3 character + C'tan + 2melee units in the face of my opponent :-).


2nd plan is much more simple:

Many warriors / Gauss Immortals, many heavy destroyers, 1-2 ghost arcs and buff HQs (Zahndrek, Desi Lord, Orikan...), Tomb Blades

And the plan is just mass RP. Most of the list should be shooting and perhaps 1 countercharge unit + the characters.


What do you think? Any other / better plans?

My plan is rather simple.
I'd go for Warriors, Immortals, Night Scythes, Annihilation Barges, and Wraiths backed up by some specialized units/models.
Not sure about the HQ. I dont want lumbering army leader and I never play HQ characters. This narrows down the choices to CCB and/or Destroyer Lord.

Just a quick realisation after a 1500 point match against Eldar:

1. We are much less resilent than before if an opponent wants to wipe aus. But we are more resilent over the game. Interesting, but something we have to use.

2. Damn is high movement + fly a problem for our slow units.

If an opponent can move 16" it is very likely that we will not get into melee with him again with our lych guard.

This means for me that Lych guard is "dead" again, just like in the 7th edition because of the speed.


Praetorians, Wraiths and all shooting stuff will be fine. But the whole idea with "port a strong unit in with the deciver" is gone for me:


1. Against tyranids, Orks, Daemons and perhaps some other things you do not want to get so close. If your opponent has the first turn he can wipe out the deciever, Zahndrek + one support unit.
If you go first you can most likely one charge some "sacirife" of your opponent, then he gets the countercharge and will really hurt.

2. Against fast shooty armies (Tau, Eldar but funny enough also Necrons with Destroyers) you won't be able to "catch up" with just lych guards.
You can no longer run 3 Tomb Blades into your opponent to "stop" him.


If you ask me: This will be become an edition with many resilent "fly" shooting units, devastating melee fighters (Genestealers, Daemonettes...) and large blobs of Infantry.


We can compete using Ghost and Doomsday Arcs (see fast flying fortresses) or immortal / warriors blobs. We have a great choice of characters and have the units for a "Countercharge" (all C'tans are great here. Their powers are more reliable than Psi, they are characters and can't be shot and they can countercharge).

So my way to go will be the "slow and steady" one with many destroyers in the back and at least 60 Necron warrior / Immortal Bodies on the table. Praetorians, Wraiths, C'Tan or stuff like that for the countercharge.

There was some mention in the FLG livestream thread that default gear might be included in the price, and gear prices are listed for when the unit has options, which would be awesome for destroyers, and others but I think that would be wishful thinking at best

This is just nonsense. Look at immortals or destroyers. Or just at the text "does not include wargear".

So the person on the FLG livesteam just has no idea

Are we 100% certain that the CCB is *not* a character? I'm looking over the leaked pictures and the CCB is listed with units having a skull icon in the upper left of their listing, which are all HQ. I think. The CCB has the <Overlord> keyword, and looking at the Overlord it has the <Character> keyword.

A trail of breadcrumbs to get to the final descriptor? Wishful thinking on my part? Am I wanting something so badly to go with the hard charging Praetorians that I'm missing the obvious?

Melionodr wrote:This is just nonsense. Look at immortals or destroyers. Or just at the text "does not include wargear".

So the person on the FLG livesteam just has no idea

It's all about adjustability. If a weapon turns out to be too good, they can adjust the price of the weapons separately than the units that can use it. If they want to boost a unit, they can boost it in multiple ways without automatically making other units overpowered.
Is it a pain for list-writing? Yes, but it'll get better.

Nightfish wrote:Are we 100% certain that the CCB is *not* a character? I'm looking over the leaked pictures and the CCB is listed with units having a skull icon in the upper left of their listing, which are all HQ. I think. The CCB has the <Overlord> keyword, and looking at the Overlord it has the <Character> keyword.

A trail of breadcrumbs to get to the final descriptor? Wishful thinking on my part? Am I wanting something so badly to go with the hard charging Praetorians that I'm missing the obvious?

Wishful thinking. Pretty sure that one of the points of going to 8th was to stop the 'this gives you this because this other thing does". The keywords it has are the keywords it has.
Skull means HQ, yes.
You can be an HQ without being a character... yes.
CCB does not get the character protection... because it is a huge chariot.

Melionodr wrote:
The deciever teleports the ghost arcs with all characters to the front lines.
[...]
Then the characters go out and Obyron ports the lychguard to Zahndrek.

!!!
Ghost Ark instead of Monolith!
Then you can have a bunch of HQ get out instead of just Zahndrekh.
That's perfect!
(that works, right? Everybody can start already embarked, correct?)

torblind wrote:
There was some mention in the FLG livestream thread that default gear might be included in the price, and gear prices are listed for when the unit has options, which would be awesome for destroyers, and others but I think that would be wishful thinking at best

Probably wishful thinking, but wouldn't hurt to try asking on the FB page and hoping for the best?

Default gear (ie, things that are unique to that unit) are priced at 0 points.

Multiple characters would be able to fit the same Ghost Ark.

It works ofc.

You put Orikan, Zahndrek and whatever character you want (Desilord or whatever) in an arc. Then you port them with the deciever before the game. Then in your first turn zahndrek goes out 3", walks 5" and then Obyron ports to him directly in the enemies together with a Lychguard.

Then the Lychguards destroys as much as possible.


BUT it does not work against most opponents. Why?

If you do not have first turn, then Tyranids, Tau, Eldar and whoever have enough firepower to just kill the arc and the characters.

Even if you have the first turn: Do you really port to Tyranids, Orks or daemons?

And Tau and Eldar have fast flying fortresses, they will just run away while shooting at you. 5" movement is not enough here (even 10" is not much). And then the points

23x for deciever, 170 for the arc, several hundreds for the characters, then the lychguard. This are 60% of your army for this move and most armies can deal with it...

 Anpu-adom wrote:
Default gear (ie, things that are unique to that unit) are priced at 0 points.

Multiple characters would be able to fit the same Ghost Ark.

Okay we should really bring up to GW that a character should be able to leave a night scythe at the same time as a normal unit, because the absurdity of taking a ghost ark to port your characters over to join your transported units is pretty extreme.

 skoffs wrote:

Melionodr wrote:
The deciever teleports the ghost arcs with all characters to the front lines.
[...]
Then the characters go out and Obyron ports the lychguard to Zahndrek.

!!!
Ghost Ark instead of Monolith!
Then you can have a bunch of HQ get out instead of just Zahndrekh.
That's perfect!
(that works, right? Everybody can start already embarked, correct?)

torblind wrote:
There was some mention in the FLG livestream thread that default gear might be included in the price, and gear prices are listed for when the unit has options, which would be awesome for destroyers, and others but I think that would be wishful thinking at best

Probably wishful thinking, but wouldn't hurt to try asking on the FB page and hoping for the best?

Points aside, you can buy a Dedicated transport for each slot choice in the Detachment.

HQ1 - Ghost Ark1
HQ2 - Ghost Ark2
Troops1 - Ghost Ark 3
Troops2 - Ghost Ark 4
etc

And you pick what goes into which Ghost Ark when you set up your army during Deployment. For missions with alternating set ups: Set up Ghost ark, Opponent sets up a unit, Then you Set up what is inside That Ghost ark. At least that is how I think it goes now.

As for the Default gear, when you have the book (or the leaked images) you will see it says "Including Wargear" or "Does not include wargear".

Example: Necrons have a few vehicle that only have a certain exact set of guns on them, but you still have to pay the cost for those guns over the base cost of the vehicle, but sometimes those guns are 0 points.

This lets them adjust the point costs in the future. If a certain Unit with a certain Gun is over powered, while that Gun on another unit is just fine, they can adjust the overpowered Unit cost with out hurting the other Unit with an increased Gun cost.

Melionodr wrote:

Spoiler:

Just a quick realisation after a 1500 point match against Eldar:

1. We are much less resilent than before if an opponent wants to wipe aus. But we are more resilent over the game. Interesting, but something we have to use.

2. Damn is high movement + fly a problem for our slow units.

If an opponent can move 16" it is very likely that we will not get into melee with him again with our lych guard.

This means for me that Lych guard is "dead" again, just like in the 7th edition because of the speed.


Praetorians, Wraiths and all shooting stuff will be fine. But the whole idea with "port a strong unit in with the deciver" is gone for me:


1. Against tyranids, Orks, Daemons and perhaps some other things you do not want to get so close. If your opponent has the first turn he can wipe out the deciever, Zahndrek + one support unit.
If you go first you can most likely one charge some "sacirife" of your opponent, then he gets the countercharge and will really hurt.

2. Against fast shooty armies (Tau, Eldar but funny enough also Necrons with Destroyers) you won't be able to "catch up" with just lych guards.
You can no longer run 3 Tomb Blades into your opponent to "stop" him.


If you ask me: This will be become an edition with many resilent "fly" shooting units, devastating melee fighters (Genestealers, Daemonettes...) and large blobs of Infantry.


We can compete using Ghost and Doomsday Arcs (see fast flying fortresses) or immortal / warriors blobs. We have a great choice of characters and have the units for a "Countercharge" (all C'tans are great here. Their powers are more reliable than Psi, they are characters and can't be shot and they can countercharge).

So my way to go will be the "slow and steady" one with many destroyers in the back and at least 60 Necron warrior / Immortal Bodies on the table. Praetorians, Wraiths, C'Tan or stuff like that for the countercharge.

This was one of my concerns as I was thinking about how to use Anrakyr. He looks awesome if he can get close but he doesn't have a transport and if you C'Tan him in he can't charge that turn. So that either means that you need to walk him up the table and risk getting kited or somehow entice your opponent to walk into him. Both of those options sound really bad, which is too bad because he has some really cool things that he will never get to do.

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:

Melionodr wrote:

Spoiler:

Just a quick realisation after a 1500 point match against Eldar:

1. We are much less resilent than before if an opponent wants to wipe aus. But we are more resilent over the game. Interesting, but something we have to use.

2. Damn is high movement + fly a problem for our slow units.

If an opponent can move 16" it is very likely that we will not get into melee with him again with our lych guard.

This means for me that Lych guard is "dead" again, just like in the 7th edition because of the speed.


Praetorians, Wraiths and all shooting stuff will be fine. But the whole idea with "port a strong unit in with the deciver" is gone for me:


1. Against tyranids, Orks, Daemons and perhaps some other things you do not want to get so close. If your opponent has the first turn he can wipe out the deciever, Zahndrek + one support unit.
If you go first you can most likely one charge some "sacirife" of your opponent, then he gets the countercharge and will really hurt.

2. Against fast shooty armies (Tau, Eldar but funny enough also Necrons with Destroyers) you won't be able to "catch up" with just lych guards.
You can no longer run 3 Tomb Blades into your opponent to "stop" him.


If you ask me: This will be become an edition with many resilent "fly" shooting units, devastating melee fighters (Genestealers, Daemonettes...) and large blobs of Infantry.


We can compete using Ghost and Doomsday Arcs (see fast flying fortresses) or immortal / warriors blobs. We have a great choice of characters and have the units for a "Countercharge" (all C'tans are great here. Their powers are more reliable than Psi, they are characters and can't be shot and they can countercharge).

So my way to go will be the "slow and steady" one with many destroyers in the back and at least 60 Necron warrior / Immortal Bodies on the table. Praetorians, Wraiths, C'Tan or stuff like that for the countercharge.

This was one of my concerns as I was thinking about how to use Anrakyr. He looks awesome if he can get close but he doesn't have a transport and if you C'Tan him in he can't charge that turn. So that either means that you need to walk him up the table and risk getting kited or somehow entice your opponent to walk into him. Both of those options sound really bad, which is too bad because he has some really cool things that he will never get to do.

*quickly checks*
"A Ghost Ark can transport 10 <Dynasty> Infantry models"
Oh FFS, so Anrakyr and Szeras can't even get into Ghost Arks?!
This is some utter bull, man. What looks like one of our best HQ is practically useless if you can't get him close enough to do anything.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Not sure about the HQ. I dont want lumbering army leader and I never play HQ characters. This narrows down the choices to CCB and/or Destroyer Lord.

Yeah, that's one of the things pushing me to take a D. Lord over an Overlord. I don't like the idea of being stuck with a slow HQ.

I wouldn't want the CCB either, as it can't hide behind units and doesn't seem resilient enough to survive on its own.

I don't think there's anything necessarily bad with Anrakyr just blobbing it with some Warriors, Orikan, Nightbringer, Ghost Arks up the table. It's tough to get rid of, puts out a lot of Gauss and a lot of attacks with 3 of our most powerful combat characters.

Just gotta sort out what sort of big guns needed in support.

 skoffs wrote:
*quickly checks*
"A Ghost Ark can transport 10 <Dynasty> Infantry models"
Oh FFS, so Anrakyr and Szeras can't even get into Ghost Arks?!
This is some utter bull, man. What looks like one of our best HQ is practically useless if you can't get him close enough to do anything.

I think we need to start compiling a list of anomalies to present to GW either on Facebook or their FAQ interactive website thing they have planned once the game officially comes out, because this is getting ridiculous.

The transport issue is probably my only real gripe with this iteration of the Crons. I can deal with the point increases and relatively minor nerfs, but they've pretty well ripped the heart out of any coordination of our forces other than slogging everyone up the board. I'll play through it, but it kills a lot of the enjoyment of this army for me.

Alright, bots,
Writing up stuff to begin a new 8th tactics thread.
Want a header so new players can find exactly what they need to as soon as they can.
Need some help fleshing it out-

8th Edition Necron Tactica - Good vs bad discussion pg.1

Good:
- Immortals (excellent guns)
- Tomb Blades (two Immortals strapped together, with extra toughness and speed)
- Deceiver C'tan (deployment shenanigans)
-

Okay:
- Warriors (lots of bodies means lots of RP chances)
- Flayed Ones (a little expensive, but a lot of attacks)
-

Bad:
- Command Barge (not much damage, easily killed)
- Anrakyr (amazing guy, unfortunately just can't get into battle)
-

Interesting Combos:
- A shooting unit that has BS3+ and has been buffed with MWBD is hitting on 2+, rerolling 1s, if it shoots at something a Stalker has shot at... that's some accurate shooting! (basially the equivalent of what used to be BS10)
You can also buff vehicle shooting with a Stalker, but they can't benefit from MWBD.
(alternatively, you can have an Overlord + Destroyer Lord + Destroyers/Heavies. Same effect as the top Stalker combo, but they're also rerolling to-wound rolls of 1).
- Deceiver + Ghost Ark (full of Zahndrekh and some other HQs) can use Grand Illusion to reposition themselves 12" away from an enemy before turn 1. At the beginning of your movement phase, all the HQ get out and move up 5" (so they're 7" away from the enemy... 5 or 6" if you pivot the Ark before they disembark). Then at the end of your movement phase, Obyron + a unit of Lychguard Ghostwalk up, 6" from Zahndrekh (so like 1" or so away from the enemy). Shooting phase, the C'tan, Ghost Ark and anyone with a Staff of Light fires. Charge phase sees a ton of Warscythes carve up anything still standing.
- One or two 20 man units of Warriors + a Ghost Ark + a Cryptek. Very hard to kill little "formation"
-

Things to note:
- Only certain things can use our vehicles now. If they do not have a <Dynasty> keyword (eg. Anrakyr, Szeras, Praetorians), they cannot interact with Monoliths, Night Scythes, or Ghost Arks.
- The Command Barge lacks the Character keyword so can be targeted by enemies without benefiting from the "must target closest unit" protection rule.
-

'Cron Offensive Mathhammer Tool:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M7tyL0_Ki19gpDOdTMRRTK74FQf4ZKATITPpFT4rWSU

?????
-

With regard to the issue of not being able to get into combat, I have two thoughts:

- Does this make the Stormlord a more attractive choice, given that (among other things) he actually has a good ranged weapon with a decent range?

- Do you think stuff like Anrakyr might still be useful as counter-charge units or to fortify our infantry against our opponent's charging us? Whilst no help against Tau, it seems like there's a lot of other stuff that will still want to assault us. Is it worth including Anrakyr as a defence or deterrent against such?

I think the destroyer lord is the best counter charge option. Good movement, tough as nails, and quite killy means he can hang back and act as counter charge or pair with another fast unit like wraiths, praets, or tomb blades.

To the gathering post above:

I think flayed ones are overpriced. 21 poins for t4, 4+ save and 1W is really bad.
The output is great, but 5" movement melee glass cannons? Not what I will use.

Immortals with Gauss are also okay. +1 Str, armor and AP over warriors for 5 points seems fine.

Imothek seems overpriced.
Normal OL is ok, Lord seems not so useful (even his moral boost is nice)
Cryptek seems ok
Desilord seems ok (our only useful fast HQ with nice melee abilities)

Zahndrekh is good. Just a better Overlord with his madness.
Obyron can be used if you want the teleport

Szeras is too random for me

Orikan is godlike

Arakyr would be good, if I had a plan to bring him into melee ;-).

Trazyn seems mostly useless

Catacomb Command Bark is missing the "character" word...now it is an overpriced shooting practice target

Lychgaurd are devastating if you can deliver them...but only 5" movement.

Deathmarks and Flayed ones are overpriced

Prätorians seem great IMHO. The speed, the firepower, the melee power...all fine

The Stalker seems overpriced. I am thinking about taking one (exactly one) as support piece. But even then a doomsday ark or 2 heavy Destroyers might be better

Both C'tan characters are fine. Deciever for teleport and the nightbringer is the perfect piece to walk in your blob with Orikan and 40 warriors. Let the opponent charge the warriors and see what happens if Super-Sayan Orikan and a C'tan countercharge ;-).


Ghost Ark is useful for the teleport of the deciever or to support 20-40 warriors. I would not use it to transport 10 warriors....

Both Scythe are ocerpriced IMHO. And they have no quanutm shield....

Wraiths are fine. 38 points for 3 wounds and a 3+ invul save is fine. The hitting power is a bit lacking.

Scarabs are so cheap. For this points the 3 wounds and the damage are awesome.

Tomb Blades are difficult IMHO. You do not want to run min. tropps now with our new RP. But 9 tomblades?
ANd do you want them with Gauss or Tesla? And then the upgrades...


Destroyers, especially heavy destroyers are Important IMHO. You need something to stop a Knight, demon prince and so on. I am actually thinking about running 9 heavy destroyers or 6 heavy destroyers and 5 normal ones with 1 heavy included..

Spiders are useless

Monolith, Vault, Obelisk are missing quantum shielding, are expensive and are just worse than knights or similar counterpats. I will not play them.

Annihilation Barge is missing range and can not use the full BF while moving.

The doomsday ark offers a long range and seems fine. I am not sure if I prefer 3 heavy destroyers or 1 Ark...


The "Transcendent" C'tan seems similar to the nightbringer, but I think I prefer the nightbringer for his shooting ability.


Different opinions on our units?

Thinking of Anrakyr, yeah he can't transport but my will be done and his own benefit work pretty well with tesla immortals in keeping with his old phyrrian eternals concept.

Honestly though the more I look at it characters not joining units devalues the very -idea- of characters fairly heavily. Transporting issues here, plus the fact that they can't charge or advance with their unit and make positioning them constantly awkward...

Yeah.

With regard to Spyders, I hadn't looked at them properly before. Wow.

So, our Necron HQs went from 3 wounds to 6 wounds.

Our Spyders went from 3 wounds to 4 wounds. Not only that, but the risk for trying to reinforce scarabs is now to half-kill a spyder. Oh, and they aren't even allowed the Living Metal rule. Outstanding.

Melionodr wrote:
To the gathering post above:

Spoiler:

I think flayed ones are overpriced. 21 poins for t4, 4+ save and 1W is really bad.
The output is great, but 5" movement melee glass cannons? Not what I will use.

Immortals with Gauss are also okay. +1 Str, armor and AP over warriors for 5 points seems fine.

Imothek seems overpriced.
Normal OL is ok, Lord seems not so useful (even his moral boost is nice)
Cryptek seems ok
Desilord seems ok (our only useful fast HQ with nice melee abilities)

Zahndrekh is good. Just a better Overlord with his madness.
Obyron can be used if you want the teleport

Szeras is too random for me

Orikan is godlike

Arakyr would be good, if I had a plan to bring him into melee ;-).

Trazyn seems mostly useless

Catacomb Command Bark is missing the "character" word...now it is an overpriced shooting practice target

Lychgaurd are devastating if you can deliver them...but only 5" movement.

Deathmarks and Flayed ones are overpriced

Prätorians seem great IMHO. The speed, the firepower, the melee power...all fine

The Stalker seems overpriced. I am thinking about taking one (exactly one) as support piece. But even then a doomsday ark or 2 heavy Destroyers might be better

Both C'tan characters are fine. Deciever for teleport and the nightbringer is the perfect piece to walk in your blob with Orikan and 40 warriors. Let the opponent charge the warriors and see what happens if Super-Sayan Orikan and a C'tan countercharge ;-).


Ghost Ark is useful for the teleport of the deciever or to support 20-40 warriors. I would not use it to transport 10 warriors....

Both Scythe are ocerpriced IMHO. And they have no quanutm shield....

Wraiths are fine. 38 points for 3 wounds and a 3+ invul save is fine. The hitting power is a bit lacking.

Scarabs are so cheap. For this points the 3 wounds and the damage are awesome.

Tomb Blades are difficult IMHO. You do not want to run min. tropps now with our new RP. But 9 tomblades?
ANd do you want them with Gauss or Tesla? And then the upgrades...


Destroyers, especially heavy destroyers are Important IMHO. You need something to stop a Knight, demon prince and so on. I am actually thinking about running 9 heavy destroyers or 6 heavy destroyers and 5 normal ones with 1 heavy included..

Spiders are useless

Monolith, Vault, Obelisk are missing quantum shielding, are expensive and are just worse than knights or similar counterpats. I will not play them.

Annihilation Barge is missing range and can not use the full BF while moving.

The doomsday ark offers a long range and seems fine. I am not sure if I prefer 3 heavy destroyers or 1 Ark...


The "Transcendent" C'tan seems similar to the nightbringer, but I think I prefer the nightbringer for his shooting ability.


Different opinions on our units?

That's some good stuff!
...
Any way I could get you to group them together by good / okay / bad? (so they're easier to copy/paste into the header post)

 vipoid wrote:
With regard to Spyders, I hadn't looked at them properly before. Wow.

So, our Necron HQs went from 3 wounds to 6 wounds.

Our Spyders went from 3 wounds to 4 wounds. Not only that, but the risk for trying to reinforce scarabs is now to half-kill a spyder. Oh, and they aren't even allowed the Living Metal rule. Outstanding.

Yeah, but they're a T6 Techmarine with an okay gun. Just forget their overnerfed scarab generation and focus on that.

changemod wrote:
Yeah, but they're a T6 Techmarine with an okay gun. Just forget their overnerfed scarab generation and focus on that.

Eh, that gun seems pretty awful to me. Especially when the model in question only hits 50% of the time.

I'd rather get a Destroyer or Heavy Destroyer and have better BS (plus rerolling 1s), about twice the movement and a much better gun.

 vipoid wrote:

changemod wrote:
Yeah, but they're a T6 Techmarine with an okay gun. Just forget their overnerfed scarab generation and focus on that.

Eh, that gun seems pretty awful to me. Especially when the model in question only hits 50% of the time.

I'd rather get a Destroyer or Heavy Destroyer and have better BS (plus rerolling 1s), about twice the movement and a much better gun.

Which is why you don't want them in combat, you want them behind a vehicle so nothing can shoot it and it can repair and deny psy in peace.
Spyders are mainly support units. You don't want your support in danger.

 vipoid wrote:

changemod wrote:
Yeah, but they're a T6 Techmarine with an okay gun. Just forget their overnerfed scarab generation and focus on that.

Eh, that gun seems pretty awful to me. Especially when the model in question only hits 50% of the time.

I'd rather get a Destroyer or Heavy Destroyer and have better BS (plus rerolling 1s), about twice the movement and a much better gun.

Mm annoying, the gun was great last edition but yeah S6 is kinda devalued now.

Hey guys/gals I have a question regarding transports. Am I only allowed to take a GA if I have a unit of 10 warriors with it or can I take one for my unit 20 but not be allowed to embark?