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2017/06/04 17:01:09
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
The spyder is truly awful, it should be like 6 wounds and have a 2+ save for that price. Its basically the same cost as a low end carnifex, I think its the single weakest unit with the 'monster' tag in the game, being easily torn apart by a single lascannon/melta shot or 2 plasma gun shots, and the model is too big to hide behind anything smaller than a monolith.
The fact that the gloom prism seems to have infinite range on its 'deny the witch' test is possibly crucial though? Imagine an ork army that expects to deliver a 30 man mob of boyz with Da Jump at the same time as its transports deliver the rest of the army and being able to reach out and shut that down? or a farseer trying to guide a full unit of warwalkers? All that and a fabricator claw makes it like an incredible little tech priest / anti-psyker utility unit except it can't hide or survive to make use of those things.
EDIT:
78zrider wrote: Hey guys/gals I have a question regarding transports. Am I only allowed to take a GA if I have a unit of 10 warriors with it or can I take one for my unit 20 but not be allowed to embark?
you can take a ghost ark for every other unit you take regardless of if they can ride in it or not, as long as your detachment allows you to take dedicated transports and almost all of them do.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/04 17:15:16
2017/06/04 17:13:56
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Hey, did someone say Night/Doom Scythes can fire at anything regardless of facing? pg. 268 has info about facings that would indicate the guns only have a 90 degree arc (for flyers only. regular vehicles don't appear to have that restriction)
Says they can leave combat air space and come back on in later turns, too. Guess we don't need to worry about flying in squares in the middle of the table after all?
Also, as we're near the top of a new page, guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to post that stuff about the new thread again for more visibility-
+ + + - - - + + +
Alright, bots, Writing up stuff to begin a new 8th tactics thread. Want a header so new players can find exactly what they need to as soon as they can. Need some help fleshing it out-
8th Edition Necron Tactica - Good vs bad discussion pg.1
Good: - Immortals (excellent guns) - Tomb Blades (two Immortals strapped together, with extra toughness and speed) - Deceiver C'tan (deployment shenanigans) -
Okay: - Warriors (lots of bodies means lots of RP chances) - Flayed Ones (a little expensive, but a lot of attacks) -
Bad: - Command Barge (not much damage, easily killed) - Anrakyr (amazing guy, unfortunately just can't get into battle) -
Interesting Combos: - A shooting unit that has BS3+ and has been buffed with MWBD is hitting on 2+, rerolling 1s, if it shoots at something a Stalker has shot at... that's some accurate shooting! (basially the equivalent of what used to be BS10) You can also buff vehicle shooting with a Stalker, but they can't benefit from MWBD. (alternatively, you can have an Overlord + Destroyer Lord + Destroyers/Heavies. Same effect as the top Stalker combo, but they're also rerolling to-wound rolls of 1). - Deceiver + Ghost Ark (full of Zahndrekh and some other HQs) can use Grand Illusion to reposition themselves 12" away from an enemy before turn 1. At the beginning of your movement phase, all the HQ get out and move up 5" (so they're 7" away from the enemy... 5 or 6" if you pivot the Ark before they disembark). Then at the end of your movement phase, Obyron + a unit of Lychguard Ghostwalk up, 6" from Zahndrekh (so like 1" or so away from the enemy). Shooting phase, the C'tan, Ghost Ark and anyone with a Staff of Light fires. Charge phase sees a ton of Warscythes carve up anything still standing. - One or two 20 man units of Warriors + a Ghost Ark + a Cryptek. Very hard to kill little "formation" -
Things to note: - Only certain things can use our vehicles now. If they do not have a <Dynasty> keyword (eg. Anrakyr, Szeras, Praetorians), they cannot interact with Monoliths, Night Scythes, or Ghost Arks. - The Command Barge lacks the Character keyword so can be targeted by enemies without benefiting from the "must target closest unit" protection rule. -
Things That Need Confirmation: - Does MWBD allow Tesla to proc on a 5+? - Do Gloom Prisms have a range, or can they be used from anywhere on the table to deny? -
Actinium wrote: The spyder is truly awful, it should be like 6 wounds and have a 2+ save for that price. Its basically the same cost as a low end carnifex, I think its the single weakest unit with the 'monster' tag in the game, being easily torn apart by a single lascannon/melta shot or 2 plasma gun shots, and the model is too big to hide behind anything smaller than a monolith.
The fact that the gloom prism seems to have infinite range on its 'deny the witch' test is possibly crucial though? Imagine an ork army that expects to deliver a 30 man mob of boyz with Da Jump at the same time as its transports deliver the rest of the army and being able to reach out and shut that down? or a farseer trying to guide a full unit of warwalkers?
All that and a fabricator claw makes it like an incredible little tech priest / anti-psyker utility unit except it can't hide or survive to make use of those things.
EDIT:
78zrider wrote: Hey guys/gals I have a question regarding transports. Am I only allowed to take a GA if I have a unit of 10 warriors with it or can I take one for my unit 20 but not be allowed to embark?
you can take a ghost ark for every other unit you take regardless of if they can ride in it or not, as long as your detachment allows you to take dedicated transports and almost all of them do.
Awesome thank you that saves me a lot of points lol
2017/06/04 17:34:34
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
skoffs wrote: Hey, did someone say Night/Doom Scythes can fire at anything regardless of facing?
pg. 268 has info about facings that would indicate the guns only have a 90 degree arc (for flyers only. regular vehicles don't appear to have that restriction)
Says they can leave combat air space and come back on in later turns, too. Guess we don't need to worry about flying in squares in the middle of the table after all?
-
[/quote
This is only important in the dofgiht phase. Nowhere it does say, that it also limits the shooting against ground targets in the shooting phase
2017/06/04 17:36:58
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
skoffs wrote: Hey, did someone say Night/Doom Scythes can fire at anything regardless of facing?
pg. 268 has info about facings that would indicate the guns only have a 90 degree arc (for flyers only. regular vehicles don't appear to have that restriction)
Says they can leave combat air space and come back on in later turns, too. Guess we don't need to worry about flying in squares in the middle of the table after all?
-
[/quote
This is only important in the dofgiht phase. Nowhere it does say, that it also limits the shooting against ground targets in the shooting phase
What dogfight phase? I don't remember reading anything about a dogfight phase in 8th ed.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/04 17:45:09
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
skoffs wrote: Hey, did someone say Night/Doom Scythes can fire at anything regardless of facing?
pg. 268 has info about facings that would indicate the guns only have a 90 degree arc (for flyers only. regular vehicles don't appear to have that restriction)
Says they can leave combat air space and come back on in later turns, too. Guess we don't need to worry about flying in squares in the middle of the table after all?
-
This is only important in the dofgiht phase. Nowhere it does say, that it also limits the shooting against ground targets in the shooting phase
Spoiler:
"All flyers - that is, units specifically with the Flyer battlefield role - can make use of the expanded Flyer rules below. For many of these rules, the flyers arcs will be important. Flyers have four arcs: one front, one rear, and two side arcs."
Sounds like it might apply to units outside of just Death From The Skies missions.
2017/06/04 18:09:36
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Melionodr wrote: The spider can only deny in 18" like any other Psyker
It would be 24" if it were the case. The rulebook deny the witch section says a psyker within 24" of the one manifesting the power gets to attempt a denial but the gloom prism description just says it gets to attempt a denial once every enemy psychic phase. I don't doubt a faq could clarify it has a range but it would be a nice feature for the spyder to hang its hat on if it isn't, cuz it sure doesn't seem to do anything else well.
2017/06/04 18:11:18
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, it doesn't specific a range, so I'm assuming its unlimited. could need some clarification, but if its unlimited that would be pretty strong.
Well, yet another thing we need to ask about on the FB page.
(I guess that would be another thing worth noting on the new thread OP: Things that need clarification.)
2017/06/04 18:41:51
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Got a friend that has been playing wh40k for a long time while I just joined for this 8th release. Starting to collect my necrons he brought up a few points of strategy that seem to echo some of the posts I read.
Take as an example this list he made (bear in mind he plays orks so it might be a bit weird)
his idea is that necrons are going to be an army that is either very mobile or just will blast you off the table my marching slowly in formation, this list would be something of the 2nd type.
His idea is to have a setup that has 2 warriors on the side, immortals on the mid, crypteks between the 3 units, and arks covering behind the 2 war units.
Everything else is for sniping enemy characters (deathmarks) and to tar pit the opponent (scarabs) and to take objectives (wraiths).
What do you guys think? I'm still a bit unsure on how necrons are going to play, last few weeks while I was building my troops I kept watching how it was in 7th and it seems a bit a weird concept for me.
2017/06/04 20:27:35
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Wow I missed that they changed tesla carbines to assault 2, that changes some things, Now tesla equipped tomb blades do more damage to MEQ than gauss blaster equipped ones outside of 12", and a lot more damage. The worse the armor save the better tesla performs, it only takes a 4+ for tesla carbines to be stronger inside 12" than gauss.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/06/04 21:01:08
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Grimgold wrote: Wow I missed that they changed tesla carbines to assault 2, that changes some things, Now tesla equipped tomb blades do more damage to MEQ than gauss blaster equipped ones outside of 12", and a lot more damage. The worse the armor save the better tesla performs, it only takes a 4+ for tesla carbines to be stronger inside 12" than gauss.
Good catch.
Does this make Tesla Immortals more attractive?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2017/06/04 21:06:53
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
very much so, if you assume 1.5 shots (eg: a mix of inside 12 and outside 12) they are in a dead heat for MEQ, for anything with worse armor tesla is better.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/06/04 21:17:12
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Yeah, they buffed carbines. You now actually have a reason to take them. I would field both blasters and carbines on the table.
Though not in the same squad, obviously.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/04 21:21:49
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, they buffed carbines. You now actually have a reason to take them. I would field both blasters and carbines on the table.
Though not in the same squad, obviously.
10 tesla immortals with MWBD
Hit on 2+
Proc on 5+
If I'm reading it correctly
2017/06/04 21:23:50
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, they buffed carbines. You now actually have a reason to take them. I would field both blasters and carbines on the table.
Though not in the same squad, obviously.
10 tesla immortals with MWBD
Hit on 2+
Proc on 5+
If I'm reading it correctly
That would be great, but it hasn't been formally confirmed that + to hit can allow for Tesla procs.
2017/06/04 21:29:47
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, they buffed carbines. You now actually have a reason to take them. I would field both blasters and carbines on the table.
Though not in the same squad, obviously.
10 tesla immortals with MWBD
Hit on 2+
Proc on 5+
If I'm reading it correctly
That would be great, but it hasn't been formally confirmed that + to hit can allow for Tesla procs.
Guess I can dream lol
2017/06/04 21:34:27
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, they buffed carbines. You now actually have a reason to take them. I would field both blasters and carbines on the table.
Though not in the same squad, obviously.
10 tesla immortals with MWBD
Hit on 2+
Proc on 5+
If I'm reading it correctly
That would be great, but it hasn't been formally confirmed that + to hit can allow for Tesla procs.
Well, in their Twitch stream, Frankie and Reece from Frontline Gaming clearly stated that this is the case. Considering that they did a lot of the playtesting for the 8th...
It says on a roll of 6+ after all, not on a natural roll of a 6 (like it does on describing Perils of the Warp in the BRB, for example).
I say that it works like that.
2017/06/04 21:55:09
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
That just seems like such a great core for the force . From what I have been reading tho is a lot of people seem to not like wraiths and scarabs.
doomsday ark is good but I think heavy destroyers are better might be preference tho
I'm pretty sure you want an Overlord of some description in your bog standard build. MWBD is too good to pass on IMO. My version of the above looks similar, but I think my first unit of Immortals would be 15 man - it's harder to wipe and you reap greater benefit from MWBD. I also like that points-wise this puts them about even with the Warrior Squads (I don't know why that matters to me but it does).
I like Scarabs fine personally, great tar pit for the point and they have decent movement. For 38 pts I don't mind the Wraiths either. The best thing about them might the psychology though, because they're not actually that scary in HtHIMO. Good for mopping up support units and grabbing objectives though. Both units are in the second wave of what I'd consider for a list, after the core as I'm deciding on how to fill certain battlefield roles.
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2017/06/04 23:14:12
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Sounds limited but thoughts on the Tesla cannon over the Gauss cannon on the annihilation barge to keep everything firing at full ballistic skill since they are all assault?
That just seems like such a great core for the force . From what I have been reading tho is a lot of people seem to not like wraiths and scarabs.
doomsday ark is good but I think heavy destroyers are better might be preference tho
I'm pretty sure you want an Overlord of some description in your bog standard build. MWBD is too good to pass on IMO. My version of the above looks similar, but I think my first unit of Immortals would be 15 man - it's harder to wipe and you reap greater benefit from MWBD. I also like that points-wise this puts them about even with the Warrior Squads (I don't know why that matters to me but it does).
I like Scarabs fine personally, great tar pit for the point and they have decent movement. For 38 pts I don't mind the Wraiths either. The best thing about them might the psychology though, because they're not actually that scary in HtHIMO. Good for mopping up support units and grabbing objectives though. Both units are in the second wave of what I'd consider for a list, after the core as I'm deciding on how to fill certain battlefield roles.
Max unit of immortals is 10 from what I am reading
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/04 23:52:53
buddha wrote: Sounds limited but thoughts on the Tesla cannon over the Gauss cannon on the annihilation barge to keep everything firing at full ballistic skill since they are all assault?
Tesla cannon did not get buffed, so it's still only assault 3, which means it's still lame. Depending on the target the gauss cannon does half the damage of the annihilation berge, a heavy 2 weapon -3 rend outdoes and assault 8 with no rend and a much higher strength. The only way to make tesla work is with massed fire which immortals and Tomb blades can pull off. The problem is twofold, first the lack of targets with a toughness 5, 6 or 7, those are a very small minority of the units you'll see. With that being the case str 5 is as good against the much more common toughness 4 as a destructor and str 5 is just as good against the very common toughness 8 as a tesla destructor. The second problem is that AP is not a smooth transition, ap -1 is not a little better then ap 0, it can be up too twice as powerful if you are shooting at TEQ. Even against MEQ it's half again as good.
There are a few ways to fix it, such as increasing the strength or the rate of fire, but those kind of changes will be exceedingly rare. Instead, my expectation is that when they do another balance pass say in december for the new chapter approved, they will probably just reduce the points of the annihilation barge, A new cost of 120 or so will bring it into line with the similar profiles in the necron army.
A few other units that could use points reductions:
Obelisk is less effective than a monolith in almost every situation, and is more expensive. It's paying thru the nose for gravity pulse, which is so situational that I wish they would just get rid of it.
Doom scythe is fairly awful, tesla is as above underwhelming, and it always takes a penalty to hit with the deathray because it has a minimum movement.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/06/05 00:44:08
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
How do we teleport infantry via Obyrons Ghostmantle if our infantry units have the Dynasty keyword and not Sautekh? Does Dynasty become Sautekh\Nihilakh if we use Sautekh \Nililakh Characters/HQs?
skoffs wrote: Hey, did someone say Night/Doom Scythes can fire at anything regardless of facing? pg. 268 has info about facings that would indicate the guns only have a 90 degree arc (for flyers only. regular vehicles don't appear to have that restriction)
Says they can leave combat air space and come back on in later turns, too. Guess we don't need to worry about flying in squares in the middle of the table after all?
Also, as we're near the top of a new page, guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to post that stuff about the new thread again for more visibility-
Note it says "Death From the Skies" Missions use the following ADDITIONAL rules: ..."
That does not apply in normal play.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Odrankt wrote: How do we teleport infantry via Obyrons Ghostmantle if our infantry units have the Dynasty keyword and not Sautekh? Does Dynasty become Sautekh\Nihilakh if we use Sautekh \Nililakh Characters/HQs?
The keyword <Dynasty> is a place holder for the name of the Dynasty you are using.
If you want to use Obyron's Ghostwalk Mantle you have to fill in the place holder with "Sautekh Dynasty"
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 01:06:07
2017/06/05 01:24:46
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
The sad thing now is that everyone should take Sautekh Dynasty unless you are trying to gimp yourself for no reason. It just gives you more benefits without any drawbacks. The only thing you lose is Trazyn, who is probably our worst HQ choice.
Necrons
Imperial Knights
Orcs and Goblins
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves
High Elves
~4100
~1660
Imperial Knights
Orcs and Goblins
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves
High Elves