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torblind wrote:

torblind wrote:

 Draco765 wrote:
Updated my earlier comment, battlescribe does have a beta version of the 8th edition available.

Go to: https://github.com/BSData/wh40k

click green "clone or download" button and "Download Zip", and extract it to your data folder which is usually c:/users/(your username)/Battlescribe/data

When making a new roster the drop down will let you pick he current 8th edition.

Those files seem to be all modified about a month ago, are you sure they are for 8th?

Ah its on a different branch, never mind me.

Different branch? What?
(I'm also having trouble trying to get the 8th ed stuff to come up on battlescribe)

Still only getting 7th ed from the drop down.

A different branch in git. If you click the branch button there, there are some 8th candidates there, I tried the one called 40k8e something, the FOC info seems messed up, but I can click around and add forces, points seem right


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Branch button in github that is


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding praetorians, they are still immune to morale, which is nice. Might result in enemies targeting other units for the battleshock bonus.

Alright, got it now (battlescribe 8th)

I'm liking a fun but expensive combo of the deceiver and a 10 strong squad of Praetorians moved in grand illusion and just lock down a whole flank or backfield. Neither need buffs and both are independent fast moving attack units.

This is probably answered already, but can you shoot at a character behind a unit that is in melee? Or is it still protected from that even though I cannot shoot at the unit in cc with my non pistol weapons?

Still protected if behind an engaged enemy unit.

 buddha wrote:
I'm liking a fun but expensive combo of the deceiver and a 10 strong squad of Praetorians moved in grand illusion and just lock down a whole flank or backfield. Neither need buffs and both are independent fast moving attack units.

The really nice thing about the Deceiver's redeploy is that it happens before the first turn, meaning you already know who is going first and if a Seize happens. Lots of options for that.

C'Tan powers on characters, was that undecided? It's not a shooting attack with a weapon, but also psychic powers have the same limitation

How do you guys deal with necrons general lack of range? Almost everything seems to be range 24".

How about armies with lots of armor?

The few things that we have seem to be in ones and twos, nothing we can spam like guard for instance.

torblind wrote:
C'Tan powers on characters, was that undecided? It's not a shooting attack with a weapon, but also psychic powers have the same limitation

It looks like the C'Tan can use his power even when he is in close combat.

He has permission to use his power in the shooting phase but its not a shooting weapon.

Basically works like a psychic power that cannot be denied in the shooting phase.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
How do you guys deal with necrons general lack of range? Almost everything seems to be range 24".

How about armies with lots of armor?

Heavy Gauss Cannon in both cases.
But yes, we lack the ability to spam high strength good -AP weapons (... but that's nothing new for us)

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
How do you guys deal with necrons general lack of range? Almost everything seems to be range 24".

How about armies with lots of armor?

The few things that we have seem to be in ones and twos, nothing we can spam like guard for instance.

Personally I never found Necrons to be short on range: 24 inches is medium range, and the battlefield has a 24 inch no man's land.

Might take some time to close in on something that's doing it's level best to hide, but advancing and agressively seizing board control generally works out pretty well almost regardless of specific list composition.

Just watched the twich battle between Reece's IG and frankies's Necrons.... it was bad. Like 7th necrons vs scat bikes bad. Total blowout.

After the game they just talked about how even though Reece played with bad tactics (not shooting down units to deny reanimation) there was no way. "Soo ummm what if you brought more destroyers?" Angry pause "They are too expensive to take more of"

Also a mass of warriors with all the buffs for melee (Szeras +1 to attack and Anrakyr 1+ to attack) can not take a single unit of Bulgrin.

"Soo ummm what if you brought more [good things]?"
*angry pause*
"They are too expensive to take more of"

8th edition Necrons, ladies and gentlemen.

Pyrothem wrote:
Just watched the twich battle between Reece's IG and frankies's Necrons.... it was bad. Like 7th necrons vs scat bikes bad. Total blowout.

After the game they just talked about how even though Reece played with bad tactics (not shooting down units to deny reanimation) there was no way. "Soo ummm what if you brought more destroyers?" Angry pause "They are too expensive to take more of"

Also a mass of warriors with all the buffs for melee (Szeras +1 to attack and Anrakyr 1+ to attack) can not take a single unit of Bulgrin.

can't seem to find it, where is it?

Also why two special characters? Another is that heavy destroyers aren't expensive it's 225 for 3, which is what you would pay for a dev squad but they work better and are tougher. I really have to see this batrep.

*Edit* found it, what the feth was with that list, three special characters and a crpytek, that's almost a third his points. That list didn't lose a fight it was stillborn.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/07/wednesday-night-fight-astra-militarum-vs-necrons/

He spent 595(!) points in characters, skimped on his heavy destroyers, didn't take any other destroyers, dropped 480 points on warriors, didn't support his flayed ones, his list was beyond crap.

That IG list is no pushover though, a basalisk specifically is really really bad for us if we can't get something to the back line to force it into falling back over and over. It wipes out whole heavy destroyer units and does just low enough damage to dodge most QS saves. It feels almost like a mistake that it rolls 2 and picks the highest for number of hits, i'd think an indirect weapon would roll 2 and pick the lowest to sim the wider scatter rules it used to have.
And the whole 6 chimeras 2 bane wolfs and 3 sentinels rushing down with heavy flamers and backed by characters with power weapons is really weird for IG, you have to treat them like orks and backpedal but the more you do that the further you get from the artillery and objectives.

Anrakyr and Zandrekh together with no Obyron is just weird.

I could understand Szeras and Anrakyr, or Zandrekh and Obyron, but not the mix there.

Dropping Zandrekh would let him fill out those HD units for a start.

Pyrothem wrote:
Just watched the twich battle between Reece's IG and frankies's Necrons.... it was bad. Like 7th necrons vs scat bikes bad. Total blowout.

After the game they just talked about how even though Reece played with bad tactics (not shooting down units to deny reanimation) there was no way. "Soo ummm what if you brought more destroyers?" Angry pause "They are too expensive to take more of"

Also a mass of warriors with all the buffs for melee (Szeras +1 to attack and Anrakyr 1+ to attack) can not take a single unit of Bulgrin.

Its almost as if playing 8th ed like 7th and making a special character deathstar is a bad idea
Bullgrins are CC heavies. Warriors are not. Are you really that surprised?
The necron list wasn't great.

ETC hard core defender wraith crazy list.

2* outrider detachment

Lord+ scythe 84
4 wraiths 152
4 wraiths 152
4 wraiths 152
4 wraiths 152
4 wraiths 152
4 wraiths 152

Lord+ scythe 84
4 wraiths 152
4 wraiths 152
4 wraiths 152
4 wraiths 152
4 wraiths 152
4 wraiths 152

total 1992

It was a bad list for sure, but even still. Okay, save ~300 points on characters, take 4 more heavy destroyers... does that even change the outcome? The majority of units will still be dead turn 2, but instead of having characters left, you get 4 lascannons which die in the next turn. This is pretty much why I complained when the indices first came out - if someone takes a bunch of tanks, we just don't have the tools to deal with it. As ridiculous as it sounds, mass lasguns are better against tanks point for point than Necron Warriors. Now sure, you won't take that many lasguns in reality, but that's because you get actual special weapons and vehicles to help out.

I don't think we can write any list which beats Reece's one in that battle. I guess we're just stuck waiting for the codex.

Conspiracy theory, I think Frankie was told to make a low horsepower necron lists because they weren't sure if the IG list was going to work. So reece comes out with this over the top weird IG lists, and absolutely whoops frankie's softball list. That's why he was so pissed at the end when Reece was talking about what he could have done better. No one could have seen that list and thought it would knock over a sand castle.

Eyjio wrote:
It was a bad list for sure, but even still. Okay, save ~300 points on characters, take 4 more heavy destroyers... does that even change the outcome? The majority of units will still be dead turn 2, but instead of having characters left, you get 4 lascannons which die in the next turn. This is pretty much why I complained when the indices first came out - if someone takes a bunch of tanks, we just don't have the tools to deal with it. As ridiculous as it sounds, mass lasguns are better against tanks point for point than Necron Warriors. Now sure, you won't take that many lasguns in reality, but that's because you get actual special weapons and vehicles to help out.

I don't think we can write any list which beats Reece's one in that battle. I guess we're just stuck waiting for the codex.

Not just characters. I would drop the flayed ones as well. He's paying 420 points on them.

Well i wouldn't call it all doom and gloom, yet. In this particular case franky set up under the assumption he would get first turn and probably pop 2 or 3 chimeras with his full model strength buffed units then be able to deal with the IG having a staggered or slowed advance but he set up pretty much all the way forward with only his heavy destroyers in cover, so getting his initiative seized on was a pretty horrific way to start no matter what his list looked like.

Eyjio wrote:
It was a bad list for sure, but even still. Okay, save ~300 points on characters, take 4 more heavy destroyers... does that even change the outcome? The majority of units will still be dead turn 2, but instead of having characters left, you get 4 lascannons which die in the next turn. This is pretty much why I complained when the indices first came out - if someone takes a bunch of tanks, we just don't have the tools to deal with it. As ridiculous as it sounds, mass lasguns are better against tanks point for point than Necron Warriors. Now sure, you won't take that many lasguns in reality, but that's because you get actual special weapons and vehicles to help out.

I don't think we can write any list which beats Reece's one in that battle. I guess we're just stuck waiting for the codex.

We agree that more heavy destroyers might not have made much difference, but I think we disagree on the source of the problem for his list. Aside from the massive screw up with the characters, lack of mobility is what killed him. He made an entirely footslogging army with no mobility boosters in there, If he had brought a deceiver or a monolith, he could have shut Frankie's back line down.

Didn't see the game, but the cron list triggered me.

Way too HQ heavy, and didnt support his troops properly. No GA for the warrior blobs, no MWBD for the tesla, no D/lord for the HD's.

A monolith would have been good, deepstriking midfield and reigning fire down upon the back line would be a good distraction carnifex while the rest of the army positions.

A deciever blinking up the monolith, which then gates some scytheguard would be able to shut down the backline, Expensive but easily doable while still keeping the phalanx style list.

Played a game against another Necron player. I brought ~20 Scarabs, some Wraiths, Nightbringer, a DArk, 3 Heavies, some Charactets, and 30 Immortals. He had lots of vehicles - 3 ABarges, 2 Ghost Arks with Warriors (did the Understrength thjng to carry Overlords) a Stalker, and 2 Night Scythes, and some Immortals.

Vehicle Spam is a lot of wounds to chew through, and the Arks and Barges Fly, so they always get their guns until they die. I don't even think it's half bad, unless the game turns into pure spam of high S low D shooting, but as long as Lascannons and Krak missiles are en vogue (so to speak), QS is pretty cool.

I lost by a narrow margin (would have won on turn 5 or 6, went to 7), but honestly I could barely kill anything. Wraiths are still just not killy, and now with the Scarab revalation I really don't see why to take them over their younger siblings. As much as I'm loathe to admit it, I think the C'tan is probably too expensive. For 230, I really want more impact on the game. D6 good shots and a solid melee profile isn't bad, it's just not the army clearer I would expect it to be. Though I'm probably too aggressive in my use, getting him out alone without a bodyguard.

I'm starting to feel a bit glum about Crons. We retained the old problem of not being able to kill anything, but lost the gimmick of never dying. New RP is great in theory, but in practice I'm not really feeling it.

Haven't tried Destroyers yet, maybe I'll feel a bit better once I give them a spin, but it's not looking amazing.

Requizen wrote:

I'm starting to feel a bit glum about Crons. We retained the old problem of not being able to kill anything, but lost the gimmick of never dying. New RP is great in theory, but in practice I'm not really feeling it.

Haven't tried Destroyers yet, maybe I'll feel a bit better once I give them a spin, but it's not looking amazing.

I feel the same way. Necrons just don't seem good on the table now compared to what anyone else can bring. We've been forced into one viable build with a handful of units and the rest of our units are trash.

RP was strongest in 5th imo. It was a proper RP, not FNP on steroids, and you can do at the end of every phase, and as such not worry too much about a squad wipe before you get a chance to roll.
What really hurts necrons is their lack of mobility and heavy anti-vehicle options; they used to be able to just teleport anywhere on the table, and they can't do that. Warscythes used to just wreck vehicles, and now they are below average at it.
Compared to the other indexes necrons look a bit weak, imo. I wouldn't say unplayable, because you can do some stuff, but they are sorely lacking in what they used to be able to do.
Its reminding me a little of 4th- pre5th ed codex, when the necrons weren't quite suitable for the edition they were in compared to anyone else, and tended to fall behind.

Its still early though, so maybe after a few FAQs and Erratas they'll be better. Hopefully we'll get our missing traditional equipment in the codex.

About C'tan - have you considered screening him with scarabs? C'tan are characters now, which means they can't be targeted unless they are the closest unit. So get a cheap, fast unit to put in front of it and it should be save from shooting for a couple of turns.

I dunno, Necrons seem quite internally balanced against themselves, the real issue is that we just don't have the power to do anything. I can understand why - it would be obnoxious to face an army which was both very durable and very good at shooting - but I think the mark was missed by quite a margin. Even something like "Gauss weapons do 1 additional damage against units with the vehicle keyword" would help immeasurably. If we can't have melta or plasma and our lascannon equivalent is 75 points minimum, then warriors and Immortals have to be much, much better against big units. Can you imagine facing a nid monster mash? That's got to be close to a 95% loss match up at least. Meanwhile, guard are bringing 20+ plasma guns to every game, DE can melt anything with a dozen dark lances, etc.

It takes 432 Gauss Flayer shots, or 162 Gauss Blaster shots to kill one knight. Even in rapid fire, that's 2539 points of Warriors or 1539 points of Immortals, all of which have to get within 12", not die and then all target the single model. Of course, you could always take heavy destroyers - you only need 20 of those, a snip at 1500 points. Meanwhile, if they ever hit combat you basically just lose. It's not even like Knights are the toughest units in the game to kill. Meanwhile, Knights with Gatling+BC kill ~8.2 warriors a turn (plus another 1.5 expected from morale) or ~6.5 Immortals per turn with distance shooting (~9.7 warriors, +3.2 from morale or 7.6 immortals, +1.1 from morale if you include the heavy flamer); in combat it kills another ~5.6 warriors or 4.4 Immortals, which auto wipes maxed units. Considering all the fluff is about how deadly Necron guns are against tanks, it's absurd that we're beaten by lasgun fire and can't ever realistically kill anything with T6+ W6+.

It seems pretty clear that we weren't tested particularly thoroughly. Hope the codex is better; in the meantime I'm just going to play my nids instead as they're substantially better in every way.

I actually suspect that GW heard of people bitching about 7th ed necrons all the time, so they over nerfed them. That or they got someone who hates necrons to playtest them.
I wonder if there's a feedback place that GW looks at now and then. If its still looking bleak we may have to do some bitching.