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2017/06/13 11:52:18
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
So do deathmarks though, and they have a great chance of inflicting them through sheer numbers
I wasn't comparing Deathmarks to Wraiths. Only stated that Wraiths can deal Mortal Wounds as well.
I think Deathmarks are great. I really like them in 2 units of 7-8. Only problem with Deathmarks is that their Disintegrator has no AP value while the Wraiths T.Beamer is AP -3.
Wraiths can be good though. 52pts per model if equipped with the T.Beamer and Vicious Claws which isn't too bad with M:12" T:5 W:3 and 3++. They will hit on 4+ with the T.Beamer if they move due to it being a Heavy Weapon but if your going for Mortal Wounds then that isn't an issue.
Perhaps 10 deathmarks is a reasonable priced speed bump for deepstriking terminators? The termies can hardly ignore them,, would take perhaps 3-4 casualties and would be kept busy in cc for a turn or two
So do deathmarks though, and they have a great chance of inflicting them through sheer numbers
I wasn't comparing Deathmarks to Wraiths. Only stated that Wraiths can deal Mortal Wounds as well.
I think Deathmarks are great. I really like them in 2 units of 7-8. Only problem with Deathmarks is that their Disintegrator has no AP value while the Wraiths T.Beamer is AP -3.
Wraiths can be good though. 52pts per model if equipped with the T.Beamer and Vicious Claws which isn't too bad with M:12" T:5 W:3 and 3++. They will hit on 4+ with the T.Beamer if they move due to it being a Heavy Weapon but if your going for Mortal Wounds then that isn't an issue.
Just so there is no misunderstanding, T. Beamer need to wound on a 6+, not simply hit on a 6+. Fewer hits (for instance if wraiths move), certainly reduces mortals wound outcome
Automatically Appended Next Post: If I were to kit out the wraiths, with what I know so far the pistol seems the only meaningful option
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/13 12:13:46
2017/06/13 13:57:24
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
If I were to kit out the wraiths, with what I know so far the pistol seems the only meaningful option
At 4 points for the pistol vs 14 points for the Beamer the pistol does win but its only 1 s6 ap0 d1 shot vs 1-3 shots s4 ap-3 d1.
I still think the Beamer is better. While its 10 points more and goes to a 4+ to hit(thank you for clearing that up) if moved, it has a chance to do more shots at 4+ and reduce a save. I rather my opponent take a 5+ save rather then a 2+ save. Even if the odds are not that good it's always nice to roll more dice.
It will all depend on your local meta though.
I would say to try everything out a few times before we decide what options are the best.
If I were to kit out the wraiths, with what I know so far the pistol seems the only meaningful option
At 4 points for the pistol vs 14 points for the Beamer the pistol does win but its only 1 s6 ap0 d1 shot vs 1-3 shots s4 ap-3 d1.
I still think the Beamer is better. While its 10 points more and goes to a 4+ to hit(thank you for clearing that up) if moved, it has a chance to do more shots at 4+ and reduce a save. I rather my opponent take a 5+ save rather then a 2+ save. Even if the odds are not that good it's always nice to roll more dice.
It will all depend on your local meta though.
I would say to try everything out a few times before we decide what options are the best.
Also consider the pistol is an assault weapon that they can fire when advancing, and while they are tarpitting someone in cc
2017/06/13 14:39:35
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Grimgold wrote: I got the feeling that understrength units were so they could be nice to people just getting started that may not have enough models for a particular unit. As soon as people saw a rules advantage , they were like "yeah, guess not in matched play".
Also watched the miniwargaming faction focus batreps for necrons, the public one was kind of meh, and an object lesson on why we don't use sword and board lychguard anymore. But the one in the vault was pretty decent, and featured scytheguard taking apart Cawl.
Would warscythes on the lychguard have made a very big difference though? the terminators had 3++ save anyway, and you were wounding them on 3+ all the same. There is twice the damage though would have made every wound inflicted count double, but they would have withered down faster. But I feel the warscythes are somewhat wasted on 3++,
Killing a Termie per fail is a big difference. There's a massive divide between a wounded terminator with TH/SS or PF/SS and one that's dead.
torblind wrote: Perhaps 10 deathmarks is a reasonable priced speed bump for deepstriking terminators? The termies can hardly ignore them,, would take perhaps 3-4 casualties and would be kept busy in cc for a turn or two
So do deathmarks though, and they have a great chance of inflicting them through sheer numbers
I wasn't comparing Deathmarks to Wraiths. Only stated that Wraiths can deal Mortal Wounds as well.
I think Deathmarks are great. I really like them in 2 units of 7-8. Only problem with Deathmarks is that their Disintegrator has no AP value while the Wraiths T.Beamer is AP -3.
Wraiths can be good though. 52pts per model if equipped with the T.Beamer and Vicious Claws which isn't too bad with M:12" T:5 W:3 and 3++. They will hit on 4+ with the T.Beamer if they move due to it being a Heavy Weapon but if your going for Mortal Wounds then that isn't an issue.
Just so there is no misunderstanding, T. Beamer need to wound on a 6+, not simply hit on a 6+. Fewer hits (for instance if wraiths move), certainly reduces mortals wound outcome
Automatically Appended Next Post: If I were to kit out the wraiths, with what I know so far the pistol seems the only meaningful option
Remember it's d3 shots, so average 2. 6 Wraiths get more shots on average than 5 Rapid Firing Deathmarks. Deathmarks get to do it before being shot, of course.
If I were to kit out the wraiths, with what I know so far the pistol seems the only meaningful option
At 4 points for the pistol vs 14 points for the Beamer the pistol does win but its only 1 s6 ap0 d1 shot vs 1-3 shots s4 ap-3 d1.
I still think the Beamer is better. While its 10 points more and goes to a 4+ to hit(thank you for clearing that up) if moved, it has a chance to do more shots at 4+ and reduce a save. I rather my opponent take a 5+ save rather then a 2+ save. Even if the odds are not that good it's always nice to roll more dice.
It will all depend on your local meta though.
I would say to try everything out a few times before we decide what options are the best.
Also consider the pistol is an assault weapon that they can fire when advancing, and while they are tarpitting someone in cc
Pistol and Assault are not the same thing so no you can not Advance and shoot. They're cheap but it's nothing special, at most 6 AP0 shots might plink off an extra wound but that's not really game changing.
2017/06/13 15:04:46
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
I know I couldn't bring myself to run this list, but what about a couple of throw away hqs and spamming DDAs and a couple of HG stalkers. That is a metric ton of fire, and with the numbers you can afford to move a few around to get in range with the flayers.
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2017/06/13 15:07:21
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Huh indeed for some reason I took it for granted you could fire pistols after advancing, since you can use them in cc after all, and bigger weapons than pistols have the assault type.
That changes things definitely, move + fire heavy weapons seem to be an awkward but viable option for wraiths in 8th
2017/06/13 15:08:49
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Grimgold wrote: I got the feeling that understrength units were so they could be nice to people just getting started that may not have enough models for a particular unit. As soon as people saw a rules advantage , they were like "yeah, guess not in matched play".
Also watched the miniwargaming faction focus batreps for necrons, the public one was kind of meh, and an object lesson on why we don't use sword and board lychguard anymore. But the one in the vault was pretty decent, and featured scytheguard taking apart Cawl.
Would warscythes on the lychguard have made a very big difference though? the terminators had 3++ save anyway, and you were wounding them on 3+ all the same. There is twice the damage though would have made every wound inflicted count double, but they would have withered down faster. But I feel the warscythes are somewhat wasted on 3++,
They would have killed the ancient in a single volley, and gotten at least another knight, those two things combined might have turned the tide.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/06/13 15:15:36
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
They would have had to deal the most amount of damage on the charge though. After that the scythguard's lack of an invul would have killed them. The necron player made some horrible tactical decisions. Why would he expose the anni barge like that?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/13 15:16:48
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/13 15:16:08
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
torblind wrote: I don't remember the termies' dmg output, but would the lychguard lived long enough without the 4++?
They had maces that dealt something like 2 damage with a -3 save modifier, so probably not.
Mace of absolution is Three damage and at a -2 AP, so their 4++ would have been replaced by a 5+. Considering how few 4++ he made I don't think it would have made much of a difference.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/06/13 15:37:16
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Requizen wrote: 6 Wraiths get more shots on average than 5 Rapid Firing Deathmarks
1) 6 Wraiths also cost a hell of a lot more than 5 Deathmarks.
2) who takes ONLY 5 Deathmarks?
I should hope 10 rapid firing Deathmarks might be able to deal more mortal wounds than 6 T.Beamer Wraiths.
2017/06/13 15:48:39
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Is anyone else annoyed they lost their marking ability?
I mean, what's the point of their name now?
They haven't?
Just can't wound on 2's anymore
Where's the mark then? Because I don't see a marking ability.
The wound on 2's fit their name, because it affected a specific unit (marked them) for them to concentrate their fire on.
Now...not so much.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/13 16:59:01
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Desubot wrote: do you think a Dawn of war models only army would do ok?
(so no barges or flyers but access to wraiths spiders and stuff. also not sure what to do about the pariahs)
... Actually, you may want to wait for the first expansion for 3, if the post credit tease was any indication.
edit: oh i see what ya mean. nvm
but ether way i dont want to run new crons. i like the old cron stuff which is why im making a limited list. i just wana get maybe up to a 2k list and be done with this army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/13 17:15:39
Am I the only one who is having problems with his "attack power" on Necrons?
I can completly forget my Heavy Destroyers. Even in cover for the 2+ save my opponent will kill them as soon as posisble (which is turn 1 normally). Las-Cannon Shots are not wasted on them, because they ignore the armor (so that only the 5+ Orikan save is there) and multiwounds are useful in dealing with them.
But also heavy Bolters are good against them...so every weapon targets the Heavy Destroyers (even if I have 6 of them) and takes them out.
I tried running 5 normal Destroyers with 1 heavy Destroyer. That worked better...but the damage was much lower. And I had real problems to open up some vehicles (nothing special, just those awful Razorbacks everyone is spamming).
Do you have any solution to make a hard hitting a 1850 or 2000 point necron army?
2017/06/13 18:00:11
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
Melionodr wrote: Am I the only one who is having problems with his "attack power" on Necrons?
I can completly forget my Heavy Destroyers. Even in cover for the 2+ save my opponent will kill them as soon as posisble (which is turn 1 normally). Las-Cannon Shots are not wasted on them, because they ignore the armor (so that only the 5+ Orikan save is there) and multiwounds are useful in dealing with them.
But also heavy Bolters are good against them...so every weapon targets the Heavy Destroyers (even if I have 6 of them) and takes them out.
I tried running 5 normal Destroyers with 1 heavy Destroyer. That worked better...but the damage was much lower. And I had real problems to open up some vehicles (nothing special, just those awful Razorbacks everyone is spamming).
Do you have any solution to make a hard hitting a 1850 or 2000 point necron army?
You could probably afford to hide them behind LOS blocking. its probably the best bet if they are getting punked that quick.
Desubot wrote: do you think a Dawn of war models only army would do ok?
(so no barges or flyers but access to wraiths spiders and stuff. also not sure what to do about the pariahs)
... Actually, you may want to wait for the first expansion for 3, if the post credit tease was any indication.
edit: oh i see what ya mean. nvm
but ether way i dont want to run new crons. i like the old cron stuff which is why im making a limited list. i just wana get maybe up to a 2k list and be done with this army.
Hmm it might be possible, but you'll be losing a lot of the synergy. In 3rd necrons had a 4+ WBB. Now in order to get the same result you'll need a cryptek. Lords are still around, but they have a fairly weak buff compared to overlords. They can take a res orb at least.
Now what is possible
Spyders are still kind of handy Monoliths are a little bit better, in that they can safely DS, but they are missing their old utility Destroyers are nice, and they work well with the destroyer lord. Probably the only traditional units that work well together Flayed Ones are nice for threatening your opponents rear lines Wraiths are wraiths. They may be canoptek bugs now, but the idea is still the same. You can find some of the old models on Ebay, but they are hard to find and pricey. I use my pariahs as scytheguard Scarabs are scarabs. Gauss Immortals are solid. In a traditional army you'll be taking only this loadout and not tesla
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/13 18:38:34
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/13 18:50:51
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You can find some of the old models on Ebay, but they are hard to find and pricey.
Exactly the plan
im probably going to run the overlord as its pretty much the same thing.
lacking crypteks sucks but o well.
i will be picking up a nightbrining because its cool balls.
and i got a monolith to repair. so far also have 20ish necron warriors being bent into a not squat mode. i have 1 wraith metal wraith coming in that i might make a push mold to make 2 more and use the new wraith tails as they seem way more stable.
immortals are solid and i like the gauss look anyway. destroyers are good to. im thinking 1-3 spyders and matching scarab swarms as objective grabbers, min infantry and rely on the monolith dropping in behind to remove anything i deem trouble asap.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You can find some of the old models on Ebay, but they are hard to find and pricey.
Exactly the plan
im probably going to run the overlord as its pretty much the same thing.
lacking crypteks sucks but o well.
i will be picking up a nightbrining because its cool balls.
and i got a monolith to repair. so far also have 20ish necron warriors being bent into a not squat mode. i have 1 wraith metal wraith coming in that i might make a push mold to make 2 more and use the new wraith tails as they seem way more stable. immortals are solid and i like the gauss look anyway. destroyers are good to. im thinking 1-3 spyders and matching scarab swarms as objective grabbers, min infantry and rely on the monolith dropping in behind to remove anything i deem trouble asap.
Oh yeah, Deceiver and Nightbringer is solid. The Overlord and the Lord isn't the same, actually. They both have different models, but I don't think your opponent would mind if you do a counts as. The traditional lord looks better anyway; no baby's hat.
You can also use scarabs to screen your c'tan from shooting; as they are characters with less than 9 wounds, they benefit from the character protection rule. So as long as they have scarabs in front of them, your opponent can't shoot them (except with weapons that explicitly allows them to target characters), even though the C'tan is like 10 times the size of a scarab.
I have a feeling they're going to FAQ in that swarms can't do that...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/13 19:08:53
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/13 19:15:37
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
I'm still a firm believer in the Doomsday Ark as our heavy hitter until we get new models.
Why Necrons? Well, we're just trying to sleep, and the galaxy is being too loud. So we're gonna go annihilate them real quick. I can self-identify with that.
2017/06/13 19:30:18
Subject: New Necron Tactica Thread - 8th ed. leak discussion pg.25 / new stats mathhammer pg.29
After a reasonable amount of list crunching I think the closest things we get to Deathstars this time around are Zahndrekh bomb (dubious usefulness once Understrength is FAQ'd) and Wraithstar.
Wraiths now have 3 decent Characters to cart around - Destroyer Lords and the two C'tan. DLords are cheaper (and therefore will end up with more attacks/wounds), and can hang out in cover for 2+. Deceiver can affect your army, allowing you to place Infantry up the field to keep up with the Star even without vehicles. And the Nightbringer, well he's a beast with essentially Fleshbane on his weapon and a decent (if unreliable) shooting attack.
While the C'tan are powerful, their high expense and relatively low save (can't get them 3+ in combat, which is painful) makes me want to try Destroyer Lords. Here's an attempt:
Immortals x10, Tesla
Immortals x10, Tesla
Warriors x18
Heavy Destroyers x3
Doomsday Ark
Outrider
Destroyer Lord, Warscythe
Wraiths x4
Wraiths x4
Wraiths x4
Wraiths x4
With proper positioning, the opponent should have to chew through 16 Wraiths to get to a single DLord. Once they get into combat, the Wraiths can tie things up across the map while the DLords hit preferred targets and the Infantry/Heavies/DDArks lie down supporting fire.
That may be a bit heavy on Wraiths, they're still not the killiest things in the game, after all. However, they do attract a lot of fire, which is good. To cut down on Wraiths, one could drop a unit of 4 and take two units of 15 Warriors instead of one unit of 20, which potentially will have better midfield control.
This really hinges on the 3 DLords being quite killy, which they potentially are. If they all hit a target together, that's 12 Warscythe hits rerolling 1s. With 6 Wounds and 4++ on each, they're quite capable of surviving even Lascannons once they're out from behind their screen. However, it still doesn't hit as hard as something like a TWC star or anything like that, so don't expect a smashy hammer of doom walking across the board and tabling opponents. More like a mass tarpit that can cut down choice units.
11,100 pts, 
7,000 pts
~1660
12,000 
