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Here's a list I've been mulling over for a bit.



I think this combines in a good way the 'best of' for the Necrons for me. There are a few good units like the Deciever/Nightbringer I've left out, but it seems difficult to fit a C'Tan in without compromising on bodies or firepower in the list.

I wrote off the Praetorians earlier, but I'm coming back around to them based on the sheer benefit of them having mobility from 10" move and FLY which seems too useful to overlook. They also fully interact with the list's choice of HQs which is a bonus. Being able to access MWBD/+1 Attack from Anrakyr and +1 to Resurrection rolls from Szeras is a nice bonus and makes me feel better about having them in the list too.

I feel like I'm missing something with Szeras, I see lots of people taking him and I can't see the point. His random buffs are all worse than a 5++ from a normal Cryptek (or Orikans improved version), with the possible exception of T5. You can get the 5++ on 3 units at deployment so it is working right from turn 1 even if you don't go first. Szeras will take 3 turns to buff the same amount of units with worse buffs. His shooty stick is decent I suppose.

 skoffs wrote:

tman3257 wrote:
The reason being is you CANNOT move with the unit that "disembarked" from the Night Scythe the turn it got out.

Wasn't that just for MOVING? (as in, during the movement phase)
Could have sworn shooting and charging was still allowed.

The issue before was with the Deceiver Bomb:
The Night Scythes would be 12" away from the enemy because of Grand Illusion. If they got out 3" but then were not allowed to move up any further, that would be a 9" charge, which would make it an inefficient/risky tactic.

But if they're just coming out in turn two, the Night Scythe wouldn't need to be 12" away from the enemy. They could be right up close (up to an inch away). Granted, your opponent will likely have moved his stuff as far away from the Scythes as possible in his own movement phase, but it would still probably be closer than 12" (that's where multiple Scythes come in. Limit the places he can run, as the Lychguard can pop out of any of them).

The restriction is only for moving, you can still shoot and charge.
There is nothing that I can see that stops charges from happening when coming out of reserves and leaving a vehicle in 8th, unlike other editions which had a very clear restriction on the matter.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I feel like I'm missing something with Szeras, I see lots of people taking him and I can't see the point. His random buffs are all worse than a 5++ from a normal Cryptek (or Orikans improved version), with the possible exception of T5. You can get the 5++ on 3 units at deployment so it is working right from turn 1 even if you don't go first. Szeras will take 3 turns to buff the same amount of units with worse buffs. His shooty stick is decent I suppose.

5++ wasnt better. Immortals with 3 sv and +1 for cover never take 5++ roll. Almost never.
+1 BS was uniqe and very very good. Count how many hit you get from it.
Change T from 4 to 5 its also very good because most weapon are 4/5 S. You get -1 to wound hit agains troops.
+1 S wasnt good because troops arent cc, but with anrakyr its also work.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Here's a list I've been mulling over for a bit.

Spoiler:

Battalion

Anrakyr - 167
Szeras - 143
Lord w/ HypSwd - 76

Immortals x10 - 170
Immortals x10 - 170
Immortals x10 - 170

Triach Stalker, Heat Ray - 171
Triach Stalker, Heat Ray - 171
Triach Praetorians x10 - 350

Doomsday Ark - 203
Doomsday Ark - 203

1996 points; 6 CP

I think this combines in a good way the 'best of' for the Necrons for me. There are a few good units like the Deciever/Nightbringer I've left out, but it seems difficult to fit a C'Tan in without compromising on bodies or firepower in the list.

I wrote off the Praetorians earlier, but I'm coming back around to them based on the sheer benefit of them having mobility from 10" move and FLY which seems too useful to overlook. They also fully interact with the list's choice of HQs which is a bonus. Being able to access MWBD/+1 Attack from Anrakyr and +1 to Resurrection rolls from Szeras is a nice bonus and makes me feel better about having them in the list too.

Those Stalkers could do with Heavy Gauss Cannons (to help the Doomsday Arks better).

How exactly do you plan on using those HQ?
You said you intended on using them with the Praetorians, but these two are slow and Praets are fast... are you planning on hobbling the fast guys just so the slow guys can keep up?

 skoffs wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Here's a list I've been mulling over for a bit.

Spoiler:

Battalion

Anrakyr - 167
Szeras - 143
Lord w/ HypSwd - 76

Immortals x10 - 170
Immortals x10 - 170
Immortals x10 - 170

Triach Stalker, Heat Ray - 171
Triach Stalker, Heat Ray - 171
Triach Praetorians x10 - 350

Doomsday Ark - 203
Doomsday Ark - 203

1996 points; 6 CP

I think this combines in a good way the 'best of' for the Necrons for me. There are a few good units like the Deciever/Nightbringer I've left out, but it seems difficult to fit a C'Tan in without compromising on bodies or firepower in the list.

I wrote off the Praetorians earlier, but I'm coming back around to them based on the sheer benefit of them having mobility from 10" move and FLY which seems too useful to overlook. They also fully interact with the list's choice of HQs which is a bonus. Being able to access MWBD/+1 Attack from Anrakyr and +1 to Resurrection rolls from Szeras is a nice bonus and makes me feel better about having them in the list too.

Those Stalkers could do with Heavy Gauss Cannons (to help the Doomsday Arks better).

How exactly do you plan on using those HQ?
You said you intended on using them with the Praetorians, but these two are slow and Praets are fast... are you planning on hobbling the fast guys just so the slow guys can keep up?

Good question. I prefer lychguard - more dmg with warscyte and cheeper.

Kuguar6 wrote:
I prefer lychguard - more dmg with warscyte and cheeper.

The problem there is having to footslog them across the entire table if you want Anrakyr to go with them to give the +1 attack buff.
You could always just drop them off via Night Scythe, like we'd been discussing above, but then you've gotta be prepared to lose them to shooting right afterwards, as you more than likely wouldn't have been able to get a Cryptek to go with them (unless you gave him his own ride just so he could tag along).

 skoffs wrote:

Kuguar6 wrote:
I prefer lychguard - more dmg with warscyte and cheeper.

The problem there is having to footslog them across the entire table if you want Anrakyr to go with them to give the +1 attack buff.
You could always just drop them off via Night Scythe, like we'd been discussing above, but then you've gotta be prepared to lose them to shooting right afterwards, as you more than likely wouldn't have been able to get a Cryptek to go with them (unless you gave him his own ride just so he could tag along).

I will use them like counter atack to guard my immortals. So only vs cc army. Also for guard my hq from non shooting dmg. I will take only 5. Its only 150 pts. For non cc army they arent worth even 150 but i think cc army are more dangerus in this edition.

I started perusing the necron book last night...QS is off the hook good and LM gives you back a wound every turn?! That's crazy talk! So what's every body's thoughts on the annibarge and ccb? Are they still competitive or is the AV13 wall of old relegated to DDA+Stalker combos? I'm not seeing a whole lot of love for the annibarge or ccb.

I've come around a bit on the Annibarge. It's not bad, but even with QS it's pretty squishy. Plenty of high strength or multi shot 1-2 damage weapons that will cut it down in a turn or two. But, it does have really good shooting.

Talked about it a few pages back, but for only ~20-30 points more you can get a Night Scythe, which loses the underslung gun but gains way better defenses and can sometimes transport things. So consider that tradeoff as well.

QS is great if you can keep the enemy at arms reach, at closer range you can get hit by more 1 damage dakka. So yeah it favors the longer range units.

torblind wrote:

tman3257 wrote:
So we had this conversation earlier in this thread. A lot of you seem to be suggesting Night Scythes as a melee delivery system. They are not.

The reason being is you CANNOT move with the unit that "disembarked" from the Night Scythe the turn it got out. The earliest you'd be able to move the unit would be turn 3 (Move NS, Invasion Beam out, move+charge unit) unless the opponent is graceful enough to put a unit within ~12" of the night scythe for you to charge at.

This is due to the reinforcements rule on page 177. The Night Scythe is not classified as a "transport" and thus is not actually using the Disembark rule.

Crossing my fingers this was overlooked, but as of right now that's how it works.

The only way is to deliver them with the Deceiver, right? And then put your trust in what would become a 9" charge (deceiver's 12" - night scythe's 3" = 9")


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something else, perhaps this was already covered, but our transports missing the "Transport" keyword, would that mean that they do not benefit deployment (with a reduction of deployed units), based on the wording in the GW "FAQ":



Ie, putting a unit on the tomb world would mean setting it up somewhere other than the battlefield, and thus is still a deployment choice?

The night scythe and monolith have special wording on them Quoting from the eternity gate:

"When you set up this model, at the same time you can also set up any number of <Dynasty> Infantry units on their tomb world.". Emphasis mine, so since it all happens at the same time it all happens within one drop. This puts tomb world reserves half way between summoning and deep strike. I hope that is something that will be expanded upon when we get a codex, maybe we will get full summoning for infantry, so we can pull out flayed ones or immortals or destroyers as needed.

Ooh Necron "summoning" sounds fun.
That would fit with the theme of them just pulling forces from their homeworld.
Hopefully we'll get a ground based teleporter as well instead of transports.

I really think they should just copy the Shaltari from Dropzone when designing Necron transports; instead of riding around in them Necrons should be able to use their tranports to instantly teleport around the table, from one vehicle to the next.

So I've been taking just the base size of Lychguard (w/ Warscythes) and keeping them behind my Zahndrekh & Orikan (which are behind blobs of Warriors). The spacing has allowed me to keep deep strikers from assaulting my characters. Also, their Guardian Protocols, snipers that target my characters are essentially negated. If the snipers land a single wound or two I usually let it go through to the character, and then recover it with Living Metal. Though when they land like 6 wounds, those Guardian Protocols really help out. In this situation, I can drop 3 Lychguard, saving the wounds from my characters, and then Orikan boosts their hopeful RP next turn.

Essentially, for 150 points, you can block rear deep strikers, negate snipers, and extend the Wounds of your characters. The best part is that those lost wounds potentially come back through RP, being more effective than Living Metal. Honestly, I think it's a very solid use of 150 points. Orikan also gives them the 5++. If they are assaulted, Zandrekh's MWBD gives them +1 attack, and TM can potentially give another +1 attack, meaning you've got a small squad with 4 attacks of S7 AP-4 D2.

Again, I know we've been on the fence about the usefulness of Lychguard, but for 150pts, I find the fact that they simply increase the wounds of your characters to be worth it on its own.

So I know the spyder is much different now than it used to be and the "scarab farm" list is pretty much over.
But is there any way to adapt a similar list in 8th edition?
With everything dealing out so many wounds now, it's an interesting thought to have giant blobs of scarabs rushing the enemy and soaking up wounds.
The thought of choking the board with the little buggers and tying up all the enemies forces soaking up shot after shot while our footsolders and armor slowly creep in to finish the job is very enticing

Well at 4 wounds a spider isnt all that hard to kill. and scarab hive seems to be a unit thing instead of a model thing so one unit of spiders will only ever bring back 1 model to a scarab swarm.

i think it might be cool with double P beams.

a unit of 3 is putting out 18 S6 shots at 24"
though at bs 4

but besides all of that it is nice to be able to deny the witch with gloom prisms.

Spyders combo with scarabs and DDA. Give DDA much more durability. Scarabs shield from deep strikes and charges. Spyder are good in cc vs some smaller cc unit and can repair Ark.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

Essentially, for 150 points, you can block rear deep strikers, negate snipers, and extend the Wounds of your characters. The best part is that those lost wounds potentially come back through RP, being more effective than Living Metal. Honestly, I think it's a very solid use of 150 points. Orikan also gives them the 5++. If they are assaulted, Zandrekh's MWBD gives them +1 attack, and TM can potentially give another +1 attack, meaning you've got a small squad with 4 attacks of S7 AP-4 D2.

What is TM? How give him 4th A?

Spyder is dead to me. Scarab Hive getting nurfed to not allow more than the starting amount of Scarabs hurts.

At 4 wounds it's terribly weak and easily dispatched. Ideally you'd surround it with Scarabs so it wasn't targeted, and you'd advance the Spyder each turn to try and keep up with the Scarabs. Since you have to advance, you probably do not want to spend the 20pts on Particle Beamers, otherwise they'd be hitting on 5+ which is just not good.

The base point cost is 76, and for 5 points you'd be crazy to not include the Gloom Prism. So the base model is looking to be 81 points (89pts if you are running vehicles and want to throw on the Fabricator Claw). For 78 points you can just field an extra 6 Scarabs.

I just don't see it as very viable. I'm sad because I just bought a Spyder a couple weeks before 8th release... but I just don't see it being worth it. The only way I see it being worth it is if you surround it with at least 4 units of Scarabs Then if you can revive 2 scarabs in each unit, it's made itself worth it.

The P beam is assault 3 how are you hitting on 5s


you cant screen spiders because they are not characters.


you could reasonably hide them behind a monolith but thats about it

Mathammer says spyder have one of best dmg per point in necron list but his dmg is split into shooting and cc. He also have 3 unique ability. Its worth his price byt only if you can use all his powers.

Kuguar6 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

Essentially, for 150 points, you can block rear deep strikers, negate snipers, and extend the Wounds of your characters. The best part is that those lost wounds potentially come back through RP, being more effective than Living Metal. Honestly, I think it's a very solid use of 150 points. Orikan also gives them the 5++. If they are assaulted, Zandrekh's MWBD gives them +1 attack, and TM can potentially give another +1 attack, meaning you've got a small squad with 4 attacks of S7 AP-4 D2.

What is TM? How give him 4th A?

Transient Madness. It's Zahndrekh's unique ability. Basically at the start of your turn, you roll a D3, refer to a bonus table, and then decide on a unit to get the bonus until the start of your next turn. On a 1, a selected unit gets +1 attacks. On a 2, a selected unit improves BS by 1 (BS 3+ becomes 2+). On a 3, a selected unit gets to re-roll failed charge rolls.

So basically you hit the Lychguard with My Will Be Done for the first extra attack, and then hope to roll a 1 on Transient Madness and then give it to your Lychguard for the second extra attack. If you roll a 2 you'd just give it to another unit that shoots. You could give the 3 roll to the Lychguard if the deep strikers didn't assault and you want to assault them. It's a 1/3 chance of getting that 4th attack, but the other 2/3 chance rolls are useful as well.

Kuguar6 wrote:Mathammer says spyder have one of best dmg per point in necron list but his dmg is split into shooting and cc. He also have 3 unique ability. Its worth his price byt only if you can use all his powers.

The only issue is that anyone can just up and shoot them. They might ignore them in favor of more immediate threats, but they're really easy to kill once focused.

SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

Kuguar6 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

Essentially, for 150 points, you can block rear deep strikers, negate snipers, and extend the Wounds of your characters. The best part is that those lost wounds potentially come back through RP, being more effective than Living Metal. Honestly, I think it's a very solid use of 150 points. Orikan also gives them the 5++. If they are assaulted, Zandrekh's MWBD gives them +1 attack, and TM can potentially give another +1 attack, meaning you've got a small squad with 4 attacks of S7 AP-4 D2.

What is TM? How give him 4th A?

Transient Madness. It's Zahndrekh's unique ability. Basically at the start of your turn, you roll a D3, refer to a bonus table, and then decide on a unit to get the bonus until the start of your next turn. On a 1, a selected unit gets +1 attacks. On a 2, a selected unit improves BS by 1 (BS 3+ becomes 2+). On a 3, a selected unit gets to re-roll failed charge rolls.

So basically you hit the Lychguard with My Will Be Done for the first extra attack, and then hope to roll a 1 on Transient Madness and then give it to your Lychguard for the second extra attack. If you roll a 2 you'd just give it to another unit that shoots. You could give the 3 roll to the Lychguard if the deep strikers didn't assault and you want to assault them. It's a 1/3 chance of getting that 4th attack, but the other 2/3 chance rolls are useful as well.

MWBD doesn't give an extra attack. It only gives +1 to hit.

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

Kuguar6 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

Essentially, for 150 points, you can block rear deep strikers, negate snipers, and extend the Wounds of your characters. The best part is that those lost wounds potentially come back through RP, being more effective than Living Metal. Honestly, I think it's a very solid use of 150 points. Orikan also gives them the 5++. If they are assaulted, Zandrekh's MWBD gives them +1 attack, and TM can potentially give another +1 attack, meaning you've got a small squad with 4 attacks of S7 AP-4 D2.

What is TM? How give him 4th A?

Transient Madness. It's Zahndrekh's unique ability. Basically at the start of your turn, you roll a D3, refer to a bonus table, and then decide on a unit to get the bonus until the start of your next turn. On a 1, a selected unit gets +1 attacks. On a 2, a selected unit improves BS by 1 (BS 3+ becomes 2+). On a 3, a selected unit gets to re-roll failed charge rolls.

So basically you hit the Lychguard with My Will Be Done for the first extra attack, and then hope to roll a 1 on Transient Madness and then give it to your Lychguard for the second extra attack. If you roll a 2 you'd just give it to another unit that shoots. You could give the 3 roll to the Lychguard if the deep strikers didn't assault and you want to assault them. It's a 1/3 chance of getting that 4th attack, but the other 2/3 chance rolls are useful as well.

Ok, i dont think about Zahndrekh with Anrakyr. Both are too expensive. MWBD dont get +1A. Anrakyr only have such aura.

I really felt the same way at first Shadowstrike, but I've come around on them. Since our vehicles are no longer trash the fabricator claw array can very quickly earn the spyders points back. Deny the witch is much easier to pull off so so the gloom prism is a worthwhile investment. The ability to replace a scarab base for each unit of scarabs near by can get a lot more mileage out of screens. Finally the twin particle beamers is a fair amount of firepower.

My only real complaint is that if I buy three of them they have to stick together as a unit rather than being able to split off after deployment.

 Desubot wrote:
The P beam is assault 3 how are you hitting on 5s


you cant screen spiders because they are not characters.


you could reasonably hide them behind a monolith but thats about it

Because to make the Spyder (M6") keep up with the Scarabs (M10"), you'd be advancing the Spyder. Sure you can JUST move once with the Spyder, and his 6" aura would cover the 4" movement difference once, but after that you'll want to advance the Spyder to keep up. While the Particle Beamer is Assault 3, you must still -1 from the To Hit roll when you advance. Since the Spyder's BS is 4+, if you advance, it now becomes 5+ to hit. To me that's not great for S6 AP0 D1.

Sorry for my wording being unclear. I didn't mean to surround the Spyder to screen. I mean to surround it so that they all remain within 6" for the Scarab Hive ability.

Ah got it.

i forgot about the whole advance thing.

dunno though i like the idea of using spiders and scarabs more for holding objectives or counter back line droppers anyway. scarabs wont really doooo anything definitely not like they used to anyway. but they are low profile, get them behind a low wall with an objective and it will force the opponent to react or otherwise abandon a part of the table.

Requizen wrote:

SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

Kuguar6 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

Essentially, for 150 points, you can block rear deep strikers, negate snipers, and extend the Wounds of your characters. The best part is that those lost wounds potentially come back through RP, being more effective than Living Metal. Honestly, I think it's a very solid use of 150 points. Orikan also gives them the 5++. If they are assaulted, Zandrekh's MWBD gives them +1 attack, and TM can potentially give another +1 attack, meaning you've got a small squad with 4 attacks of S7 AP-4 D2.

What is TM? How give him 4th A?

Transient Madness. It's Zahndrekh's unique ability. Basically at the start of your turn, you roll a D3, refer to a bonus table, and then decide on a unit to get the bonus until the start of your next turn. On a 1, a selected unit gets +1 attacks. On a 2, a selected unit improves BS by 1 (BS 3+ becomes 2+). On a 3, a selected unit gets to re-roll failed charge rolls.

So basically you hit the Lychguard with My Will Be Done for the first extra attack, and then hope to roll a 1 on Transient Madness and then give it to your Lychguard for the second extra attack. If you roll a 2 you'd just give it to another unit that shoots. You could give the 3 roll to the Lychguard if the deep strikers didn't assault and you want to assault them. It's a 1/3 chance of getting that 4th attack, but the other 2/3 chance rolls are useful as well.

MWBD doesn't give an extra attack. It only gives +1 to hit.

Ah yes that's correct. I messed that bit up. Still, hitting on 2+ with those Scythes is nice. Not as nice as an extra attack as I thought, but still aright. The biggest value to me is just the extra wounds for your characters.

Anrakyr gets you that extra attack, perhaps you had your HQs confused


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This has perhaps been covered, but can the C'Tans use their powers even if within 1" of an enemy? What about gaze of death in that regard?

torblind wrote:
Anrakyr gets you that extra attack, perhaps you had your HQs confused


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This has perhaps been covered, but can the C'Tans use their powers even if within 1" of an enemy? What about gaze of death in that regard?

Ctans powers can. Just can use in every shooting phase. Its not a shooting atack.
Gaze of death cant. Its normal shooting weapon.

I have to say, I'm pretty worried about mobility in this edition.

My current army is basically:
Battalion
- Destroyer Lord
- Overlord
- Cryptek
- 15 Warriors
- 15 Warriors
- 10 Immortals
- 3 Destroyers + H. Destroyer
- 3 Destroyers + H. Destroyer
- 4 Scarabs

The Warriors and Immortals go with the Overlord and Cryptek, the Destroyers go with the D. Lord.

Here's the thing - this basically gives me just 2 blocks of units, and only the Destroyers have decent movement.

It seems like I'll really struggle with both mobility and board control. Am I worrying about nothing or is this a legitimate concern?

Also, if it is a legitimate concern, do you have any advice in terms of what I could do to fix it? Are Praetorians or Wraiths any good?