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changemod wrote:You could always My Will Be Done a pylon and hold aside a command point for number of shots on the turn you really need it to kill or at least cripple a superheavy.

MWBD only works on Infantry, so no dice. Best targets are Heavy Destroyers and Tesla Immortals.

Eyjio wrote:

Irrumare wrote:
I simulated it over a few million trials, didn't use average math.

Your 'average math' doesn't add up, either.

3.5 (attacks) * (4/6) to hit * (5/6) to wound * (4/6) invuln * 8 avg dmg = 10.4.

You're missing that as a Macro gun that it does double damage per shot, so average 16 damage. That puts it at ~20.7 wounds per volley.

Yep, that's the sticking point. If you get two through the Invuln (pretty likely), the Knight is dead. If only one gets through, it takes 14-18 points of damage, putting it close to if not over the final tier. It may still be worth bringing a couple Heavies to plink off any remaining.

Depends on the meta for that. If vehicle/monster spam still remains, Pylon + Heavies will be a pretty solid backfield. If it goes more towards hordes or a mix, the Pylon is still pretty good (hard for hordes to kill, can pump out Flux Arc shot and Tesla pistols, can DS right onto an objective). I'm excited to get mine now.

changemod wrote:
You could always My Will Be Done a pylon and hold aside a command point for number of shots on the turn you really need it to kill or at least cripple a superheavy.

MWBD is only for infantry...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
DAMMIT.
Always getting ninja'd

Is there a model for the Gauss Pylon yet?

Mutter wrote:
Is there a model for the Gauss Pylon yet?

There's been a model for the Pylon since I began playing in 3e...

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Necron-Pylon

Alright, I somehow got confused with the Sentry Pylons ...
Thanks.

Remember you can't shoot a pistol with other weapons, so the tesla arc is kind of bad. Wish it worked like the old lightning field generator wargear and did a light autohit on anyone hitting it in melee.

I wish acanthrites were 10 points cheaper and had strength 8 cutting beams.

I wish the exile cannon wasn't heavy or the tomb sentinel had a move and shoot heavy with no modifier rule.

I wish a was a little bit taller, i wish i was a baller.

Irrumare wrote:

Titanicus wrote:
Guass pylon has a godlike supakannonfrom he'll with the macro rule it will 1 shot a knight on average.

The Gauss Pylon gun is pretty good, but no, it will not 1-shot a knight on average. It has a 16% chance of one-shotting a knight. It has a 53% chance of killing a knight in two shots. I'd probably bring a Stalker with it, to give it the reroll 1s to hit, since it's only 3+ to hit a non-flyer.

3.5 shots, wounds on 2s, and a 5+ invul, does 5 damage before the macro rule 10 after doubling.

2/3 * 5/6 * 2/3 = 37% at 10 wounds per hit, so 3.7 wounds per shot, times 3.5 shots per round is 12.95 damage per round so average rolls will get a knight in two rounds. I'm lazy so I haven't done the math, but it seems like less than a 16% chance to one shot a night, and better than a 53% chance to get it in two shots.

 Grimgold wrote:

Irrumare wrote:

Titanicus wrote:
Guass pylon has a godlike supakannonfrom he'll with the macro rule it will 1 shot a knight on average.

The Gauss Pylon gun is pretty good, but no, it will not 1-shot a knight on average. It has a 16% chance of one-shotting a knight. It has a 53% chance of killing a knight in two shots. I'd probably bring a Stalker with it, to give it the reroll 1s to hit, since it's only 3+ to hit a non-flyer.

3.5 shots, wounds on 2s, and a 5+ invul, does 5 damage before the macro rule 10 after doubling.

2/3 * 5/6 * 2/3 = 37% at 10 wounds per hit, so 3.7 wounds per shot, times 3.5 shots per round is 12.95 damage per round so average rolls will get a knight in two rounds. I'm lazy so I haven't done the math, but it seems like less than a 16% chance to one shot a night, and better than a 53% chance to get it in two shots.

d6 shots: 3.5
Hit on 3+: 2/3
Wound on 2+: 5/6
Save on 5++: 2/3 (goes through)
Damage d3+6: 8 (doubled because Titanic to 16)

3.5 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 16 = 20.74 Wounds done on average.

Obviously you can't get half damage through so on average it'll be either 14-18 damage (one shot gets through) or 28-36 damage (two shots get through).

D3 + 6 damage Macro is freaking insane. Go against a Wraithknight without a Scattershield or a Baneblade variant. One shot. A Stompa has 40 wounds but no Invuln without a KFF character. Stormsurges can buy a 4++ with Shield Generator, so they're pretty durable against it, but with only 20 wounds any shot that gets through nearly kills it in one go.

The obvious downside being that without QS, it's pretty susceptible to being insta-gibbed itself. 5++ is good as is Living Metal, so that's not too bad, but you're obviously not getting back 30 wounds in a game. If 40k turns into an arms race and we find Pylons get blasted off a lot, might be worth investing in some Spyders to buddy up with it.

On the other hand, since it can DS, you can usually guarantee that it'll never get shot on T1.

Because Big Poppa Pylon has the Titanic keyword it doesn't suffer the -1 that Heavy gives when firing if it teleports in, right?

 skoffs wrote:
Because Big Poppa Pylon has the Titanic keyword it doesn't suffer the -1 that Heavy gives when firing if it teleports in, right?

The Titanic keyword does not grant that ability. It just allows vehicles to move over barricades, iirc.

What does the macro rule do?

I'm glad I've got two pylons,

Maybe good to use a spyder and toholk together to keep one living.

Damn same on the missed potential off the tomb board thou :/

I do like the other things thou. Funny to see people's faces when our sentry pylons start walking away thou I recon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Macro doubles wounds against titanic figures

 Actinium wrote:
Remember you can't shoot a pistol with other weapons, so the tesla arc is kind of bad. Wish it worked like the old lightning field generator wargear and did a light autohit on anyone hitting it in melee.

I wish acanthrites were 10 points cheaper and had strength 8 cutting beams.

I wish the exile cannon wasn't heavy or the tomb sentinel had a move and shoot heavy with no modifier rule.

I wish a was a little bit taller, i wish i was a baller.

I wish the Tomb Citadel that I just finished painting and was looking forward to using wasn't insanely, unbelievably, unnecessarily, unusably overcosted.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Because Big Poppa Pylon has the Titanic keyword it doesn't suffer the -1 that Heavy gives when firing if it teleports in, right?

The Titanic keyword does not grant that ability. It just allows vehicles to move over barricades, iirc.

Huh, so it does.
But interestingly enough,
Page 4 of the Forge World Xenos index says "A model armed with a Macro weapon may not fire if it has moved previously in the turn, unless the firing unit also has the TITANIC keyword."
The Focused beam weapon profile lists it's type as Macro.
As far as I can see, nowhere else in the book does it say anything about Macro weapons getting any other penalties to fire (like Heavy type weapons getting -1 to hit).
So, by that reasoning, it would appear that, as long as you don't fire the Flux arc profile (Heavy 2D6) on the turn it arrives "from orbit", you should be good for full BS.

skoffs wrote:Because Big Poppa Pylon has the Titanic keyword it doesn't suffer the -1 that Heavy gives when firing if it teleports in, right?

Macro does not apply a -1 to hit at all, it just cannot be shot if you move unless you're Titanic. So you can DS in and fire the big gun, but if you fire it as 2d6 S6 AP-1 D1 shots instead, you're -1 to hit because Heavy.

It's going to be a great unit until you come across the guy running nothing but Genestealers, Lictors, and Malanthropes.

Requizen wrote:
It's going to be a great unit until you come across the guy running nothing but Genestealers, Lictors, and Malanthropes.

So a Super Heavy Detachment with 3 G.Pylons and a Flyer Wing Detachment with 3 N.Scythes for 1997 points, then?

Wow. So I'm thinking the FW Canoptek Tomb Stalker is going to be fantastic, and potentially our main anti-tank unit.

For 180 points, you get a 9 Wound powerhouse that fires D6 S10 AP-4 D3 shots. Best part is that it deep strikes, allowing you to place it exactly where you need it to melt the right unit. It also has a Gloom Prism on it and Living Metal as well. Deep strike in two of these within range of some enemy armor, and you can do some damage.

I never really looked at it before, but I think it's looking really solid now. The only thing I see it really lacking would be no invuln save, and having to be within 12" is slightly dangerous with just a 3+ armor.

What do you guys think about it?

I think you're thinking of the Sentinel. The Stalker has a different gun: Rapid Fire d3 S5 AP-1 D1 (d3 Heavy Bolter, essentially) but is cheaper and has 2 more attacks in melee.

The Sentinel is going to be a sleeper hit I think. The gun is solid (even if it is Heavy) and can really put the hurt on bigger units that aren't well protected. Being able to sneak up and beam down a Basilisk is potentially hilarious and powerful.

I wonder if I can magnetize my Stalker to be either. It looks like just the head and front arms are different between the two models.

tenshu wrote:
What does the macro rule do?

Double dmg vs titanic and buildings, can't fire overwatch, can't move and fire unless the user is titanic

Requizen wrote:
I think you're thinking of the Sentinel. The Stalker has a different gun: Rapid Fire d3 S5 AP-1 D1 (d3 Heavy Bolter, essentially) but is cheaper and has 2 more attacks in melee.

The Sentinel is going to be a sleeper hit I think. The gun is solid (even if it is Heavy) and can really put the hurt on bigger units that aren't well protected. Being able to sneak up and beam down a Basilisk is potentially hilarious and powerful.

I wonder if I can magnetize my Stalker to be either. It looks like just the head and front arms are different between the two models.

Whoops. Yeah I definitely meant the Sentinel. Right now I'm trying to determine if this eBay listing from China is a real product or a knock-off:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NECRON-CANOPTEK-TOMB-SENTINEL-/282540318512?hash=item41c8b71f30:g:l0sAAOSwq19XDKxG

If it's a knock-off, it looks like a really good one. Since I'm in the U.S., this makes the price cut in half...

That retailer is almost certainly a recaster. Most recasters have pretty decent quality from what I've seen, but I would not recommend buying from them. Partially because of quality (I've seen some bad sculpts if it's from an unknown) partially because the materials they use can be really crappy for both modeling and health.

...and of course recasting isn't right. In case GW is reading.

Am I missing something or does QS practically make necron vehicles immune to things like titans? I was reading the new FW rules and so much inflicts high damage that it seems like hilariously easy to shrug off a warlord titan's main weapons on anything with QS. I would laugh as a ghost ark goes around just kitting a warlord all game.

Requizen wrote:
I think you're thinking of the Sentinel. The Stalker has a different gun: Rapid Fire d3 S5 AP-1 D1 (d3 Heavy Bolter, essentially) but is cheaper and has 2 more attacks in melee.

The Sentinel is going to be a sleeper hit I think. The gun is solid (even if it is Heavy) and can really put the hurt on bigger units that aren't well protected. Being able to sneak up and beam down a Basilisk is potentially hilarious and powerful.

I wonder if I can magnetize my Stalker to be either. It looks like just the head and front arms are different between the two models.

I personally think both will be sleeper hits. The Stalker is an excellent bully unit.

 buddha wrote:
Am I missing something or does QS practically make necron vehicles immune to things like titans? I was reading the new FW rules and so much inflicts high damage that it seems like hilariously easy to shrug off a warlord titan's main weapons on anything with QS. I would laugh as a ghost ark goes around just kitting a warlord all game.

Yeah it's amusing. If LoW builds becomes the norm, QS spam will be a real contender. They're countered hard by things like Plasma and high strength low damage, though.

Hi, I'm looking for advice - I'm doing a 1000pt game with some friends soon and I'd like to include some destroyers (and ideally a Lord) in my list.

here's the thing, I'm quite concerned when it comes to balancing squad sizes vs points. On the one hand, I don't want to spend so many points on them that I've got little room for anything else in my list, but at the same time I'm worried that this will make my squads so small that they'll easily be killed before they get a chance to roll RPs.

So, with that in mind, do you think that 2 squads of 3 (each with 1 upgraded to a Heavy Destroyer) will be too few bodies? If so, would it be better if I ran them as a single unit of 5?

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Hi, I'm looking for advice - I'm doing a 1000pt game with some friends soon and I'd like to include some destroyers (and ideally a Lord) in my list.

here's the thing, I'm quite concerned when it comes to balancing squad sizes vs points. On the one hand, I don't want to spend so many points on them that I've got little room for anything else in my list, but at the same time I'm worried that this will make my squads so small that they'll easily be killed before they get a chance to roll RPs.

So, with that in mind, do you think that 2 squads of 3 (each with 1 upgraded to a Heavy Destroyer) will be too few bodies? If so, would it be better if I ran them as a single unit of 5?

In my experience playing a 1k pt game last night 3 is too small of a unit and heavy destroyers are too expensive to bother fielding. I would run a single unit of 4-5 or two units of 4 if you really want a lot of destroyers. I think at 1k quantity is more important than limited deathball synergy you might get. At 2k you can afford a lot fancier tricks. Boys first yada yada

Joeproton wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Hi, I'm looking for advice - I'm doing a 1000pt game with some friends soon and I'd like to include some destroyers (and ideally a Lord) in my list.

here's the thing, I'm quite concerned when it comes to balancing squad sizes vs points. On the one hand, I don't want to spend so many points on them that I've got little room for anything else in my list, but at the same time I'm worried that this will make my squads so small that they'll easily be killed before they get a chance to roll RPs.

So, with that in mind, do you think that 2 squads of 3 (each with 1 upgraded to a Heavy Destroyer) will be too few bodies? If so, would it be better if I ran them as a single unit of 5?

In my experience playing a 1k pt game last night 3 is too small of a unit and heavy destroyers are too expensive to bother fielding. I would run a single unit of 4-5 or two units of 4 if you really want a lot of destroyers.

Heavies max out at 3, and imo regular Destroyers are iffy at any points level.

A unit of 3 should pop most vehicles especially if you go ham and buff them with Overlord/DLord.

Requizen wrote:

Joeproton wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Hi, I'm looking for advice - I'm doing a 1000pt game with some friends soon and I'd like to include some destroyers (and ideally a Lord) in my list.

here's the thing, I'm quite concerned when it comes to balancing squad sizes vs points. On the one hand, I don't want to spend so many points on them that I've got little room for anything else in my list, but at the same time I'm worried that this will make my squads so small that they'll easily be killed before they get a chance to roll RPs.

So, with that in mind, do you think that 2 squads of 3 (each with 1 upgraded to a Heavy Destroyer) will be too few bodies? If so, would it be better if I ran them as a single unit of 5?

In my experience playing a 1k pt game last night 3 is too small of a unit and heavy destroyers are too expensive to bother fielding. I would run a single unit of 4-5 or two units of 4 if you really want a lot of destroyers.

Heavies max out at 3, and imo regular Destroyers are iffy at any points level.

A unit of 3 should pop most vehicles especially if you go ham and buff them with Overlord/DLord.

I disagree on normal destroyers but maybe I'm just wrong. I need to play a lot more anyway. I do know that my unit of 3 destoyers got destroyed in 2 rounds vs a riptide.

I will say that 10 immortals with tesla and MWBD absolutely demolished all the infantry they ran into. Maybe I was rolling hot for them but they would shoot 20 shots and be rolling for 17-23 wounds. It was amazing and incredibly demoralizing for my Tau oponent.

You guys are tickling my balls right now , where can I view all this juicy detail about the forge world stuff? I really need to have this in my possession as soon as possible.

The cryptek looks amazing! Refilling seize the initiative, and repairing vehicles is awesome! Combined with a spyder and heavy mech lists can become viable! I'm going to try one out this weekend, up against gaunt spam, so running a vehicle heavy list. Going to proxy a tesseract ark and toholk the blind!