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2017/06/24 03:24:35
Subject: Re: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Sushi636 wrote: You guys are tickling my balls right now , where can I view all this juicy detail about the forge world stuff? I really need to have this in my possession as soon as possible.
The post near the top of page 69 gives a pretty accurate rundown of everything, but as per Dakka rules we can't advocate anything other than the official channels. (though I'm sure the various list building sites and apps will update to include the info soon enough)
If there's anything specific you want to ask about people might be able to answer your questions if it doesn't directly violate Dakka's rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/24 03:26:16
2017/06/24 05:36:14
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
I picked up my copy of IA Xenos. I am pretty happy with it. The centipedes look good. The pylon looks like a beast. And I am loving Kutlakh and New Cryptek. Anyone come up with any assualt lists utilizing Kutlakhs 12" charge after advanced bubble?
2017/06/24 05:45:36
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
I'd assume Kutlakh + Antakyr near a unit or two of Lychguard would be pretty disgusting.
Watching Reecius' latest 'Cron VS Guard match on twitch, he made an interesting point about Immortals.
That for 85 points, MSU Tesla squads are excellent little place-and-forget choices. They're able to operate pretty much autonomously, requiring very little help or management, while still managing to contribute decently to the game (semi-long distance harassment and Objective chasing).
Yeah, they're easier to kill than 10 man squads, but they're not THAT expensive, so you're going to be getting back your points investment throughout the course of the game.
I think a Brick of 15-20 Warriors supported by Cryptek plus a couple minimum sized T.Immortal units may be worth considering for a base/core of most army lists (at a minimum of 454 for those four units, it's definitely a reasonable way to fill a quarter or your points limit).
Also, in the same broadcast he mentioned that big groups of Tesla Tomb Blades and Rod Praetorians were units to be feared this edition... not sure how that would work out, but maybe worth investigating.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/24 06:38:15
2017/06/24 09:28:44
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Requizen wrote: Heavies max out at 3, and imo regular Destroyers are iffy at any points level.
Oh, that's a shame.
To be honest, the model I most want to use is my Destroyer Lord.
If Destroyers aren't good, is the Destroyer Lord useful with anything else?
Well, they're not exactly "bad", it's just that they cost a lot so you need to be careful with them, as well as be aware that they'll use up a decent chunk of your points resources which may limit your ability to fill out the rest of your list.
Alternate uses for a D.Lord would include being a fast moving ResOrb carrier with decent attacks who can accompany Praetorians... but in that we're still not 100% sure on the viability of Praets, don't know how useful that information would be to you.
2017/06/24 10:05:51
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Well, they're not exactly "bad", it's just that they cost a lot so you need to be careful with them, as well as be aware that they'll use up a decent chunk of your points resources which may limit your ability to fill out the rest of your list.
Alternate uses for a D.Lord would include being a fast moving ResOrb carrier with decent attacks who can accompany Praetorians... but in that we're still not 100% sure on the viability of Praets, don't know how useful that information would be to you.
Well, I do want to try Praetorians sometime.
Out of curiosity, is there any value in getting the Phylactery upgrade on a Destroyer Lord?
2017/06/24 10:25:43
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Requizen wrote: Heavies max out at 3, and imo regular Destroyers are iffy at any points level.
Oh, that's a shame.
To be honest, the model I most want to use is my Destroyer Lord.
If Destroyers aren't good, is the Destroyer Lord useful with anything else?
Well, they're not exactly "bad", it's just that they cost a lot so you need to be careful with them, as well as be aware that they'll use up a decent chunk of your points resources which may limit your ability to fill out the rest of your list.
Alternate uses for a D.Lord would include being a fast moving ResOrb carrier with decent attacks who can accompany Praetorians... but in that we're still not 100% sure on the viability of Praets, don't know how useful that information would be to you.
You cant use resurection orb from destroyer lord on pretorian because pretorian havent got dynasty key word. This include most MWBD, technomancer and chronometr. Only same hq have this skill without dynasty key word.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/24 10:26:46
2017/06/24 10:48:18
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
skoffs wrote: Alternate uses for a D.Lord would include being a fast moving ResOrb carrier with decent attacks who can accompany Praetorians... but in that we're still not 100% sure on the viability of Praets, don't know how useful that information would be to you.
You cant use resurection orb from destroyer lord on pretorian because pretorian havent got dynasty key word. This include most MWBD, technomancer and chronometr. Only same hq have this skill without dynasty key word.
... sonofabitch, yet another con against taking Praets.
When the hell is the new FAQ expected? We got a lot of stuff that needs clearing up.
2017/06/24 11:18:29
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: Sorry, one last thing for now - is there any value in the Phylactery upgrade for the Destroyer Lord?
You normally want Destroyer Lords with expensive infantry, so ResOrb is usually the one to take there. You would only take the Phylac if you're planning on having him run around by himself.
2017/06/24 12:34:02
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
I am putting together a Vanguard Detachment with Deathmarks and Flayed Ones. I am just wondering what your guys thoughts are on these layouts.
Note: I can only share points between 24 models due to low remaining points in a list.
1. 8 Deathmarks, 8 Deathmarks, 8 Flayed-Ones.
2. 7 Deathmarks, 7 Deathmarks, 10 Flayed-Ones.
3. 9 Deathmarks, 9 Deathmarks, 6 Flayed-Ones.
The 1st option looks most balanced to me as they are all 8 each so they all have the same chance of survival and all will be considered a threat.
16 shots (if in rapid fire) that can target 2 separate units either by deepstriking normally or deepstriking with an opponents unit/model looks solid to me.The chance to do 1 Mortal Wound per wound roll of 6 will be more helpful as well.
8 FO doing 4 attacks per model is crazy good. Even if its 4 str. Also, adding 1 to opponents morale and re rolling failed wound roll will do lots of more damage.
2nd is just as good maybe a bit better/worse?? 7 Deathmarks do lose 2 shots or 4 in Rapid fire,lose a better chance at survival and less chance of getting mortal wounds. But, 2 extra FO is 8 more attacks, re-roll failed wounds and better chance of the FO sticking around.
3rd option I was going more CC-FO to protect something like a DDA, Stalker, FW models etc. 2 units of 9 Deathmarks will (hopefully) put the hurt on my opponents with 4 more shots or 8 in Rapid-Fire and the chance to get more mortal wounds.
I am not sure what one to pick. The 1st is most balanced, 2nd is more CC strong while losing 2-4 shots and 3 makes me want to counter-CC while firing with a good/strong fire line.
We'd really have to see the rest of the list to give the best feedback/suggest what would compliment it best.
(please post list under a spoiler, though)
2017/06/24 13:05:47
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
skoffs wrote: We'd really have to see the rest of the list to give the best feedback/suggest what would compliment it best.
(please post list under a spoiler, though)
The list is about having the Cryptek and O/lord with the Destroyers to give them +1 RP and MWBD so get 2+ BS to make full use of their re rolling 1s to hit. Warriors will then be in front of them with a Lord to give them +1 RP and re rolling morale so that warriors keep coming back.
Stalker is to give everything re rolling hit rolls of 1s besides the Destroyers as they naturally have it.
DDA will hang back and focus on the opponents most threatening units. Can also move it and relly on LP mode and the Gauss Flayer Arrays.
Scarabs will screen or surround units i dont want charged.
Sypder will heal d3 wounds on either stalker or DDA. I will also be playing against Tau or Thousand Suns so GP is being taken incase it is needed.
That leaves the DMs and FOs to fill the elite spot for deepstriking and either attacking my opponents good units or defending my units from deepstrike shenanigans.
skoffs wrote: I'd assume Kutlakh + Antakyr near a unit or two of Lychguard would be pretty disgusting.
Watching Reecius' latest 'Cron VS Guard match on twitch, he made an interesting point about Immortals.
That for 85 points, MSU Tesla squads are excellent little place-and-forget choices. They're able to operate pretty much autonomously, requiring very little help or management, while still managing to contribute decently to the game (semi-long distance harassment and Objective chasing).
Yeah, they're easier to kill than 10 man squads, but they're not THAT expensive, so you're going to be getting back your points investment throughout the course of the game.
I think a Brick of 15-20 Warriors supported by Cryptek plus a couple minimum sized T.Immortal units may be worth considering for a base/core of most army lists (at a minimum of 454 for those four units, it's definitely a reasonable way to fill a quarter or your points limit).
Also, in the same broadcast he mentioned that big groups of Tesla Tomb Blades and Rod Praetorians were units to be feared this edition... not sure how that would work out, but maybe worth investigating.
That's a good point about min Tesla units. You don't necessarily need MWBD on 10 to do good damage, especially if you're gonna throw it on HDs or Lychguard or Praets.
Still not sold on Tomb Blades. There's enough range in the game that they'll just pop. I kind of want to try Praets as well, but I'm not sure that game was the best indicator of their ability. The IG player made a lot of mistakes so it's a bit misleading imo.
2017/06/24 13:23:54
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
skoffs wrote: We'd really have to see the rest of the list to give the best feedback/suggest what would compliment it best.
(please post list under a spoiler, though)
The list is about having the Cryptek and O/lord with the Destroyers to give them +1 RP and MWBD so get 2+ BS to make full use of their re rolling 1s to hit. Warriors will then be in front of them with a Lord to give them +1 RP and re rolling morale so that warriors keep coming back.
Stalker is to give everything re rolling hit rolls of 1s besides the Destroyers as they naturally have it.
DDA will hang back and focus on the opponents most threatening units. Can also move it and relly on LP mode and the Gauss Flayer Arrays.
Scarabs will screen or surround units i dont want charged.
Sypder will heal d3 wounds on either stalker or DDA. I will also be playing against Tau or Thousand Suns so GP is being taken incase it is needed.
That leaves the DMs and FOs to fill the elite spot for deepstriking and either attacking my opponents good units or defending my units from deepstrike shenanigans.
I see no issues with the above list as it is... though maybe your plan might need reconsideration (everything surrounding the Destroyers).
If you want to add some more Flayed Ones, perhaps consider dropping some Warriors. As long as you're above 15 you should be fine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote: I kind of want to try Praets as well, but I'm not sure that game was the best indicator of their ability.
Doing a quick comparison, I realized these guys don't have too much difference...
Destroyer M10" BS3+ WS3+ S4 T5 W3 A2 Ld10 Sv3+ (Shoot: G.C: 2 24" S5 AP-3 d3D / Melee: S4 AP-). 315 points gets you 5 (15 wounds, 10 shots). Fly keyword. Reroll 1s to hit, can easily get buffs.
I see no issues with the above list as it is... though maybe your plan might need reconsideration (everything surrounding the Destroyers).
If you want to add some more Flayed Ones, perhaps consider dropping some Warriors. As long as you're above 15 you should be fine.
Its only the 3 Hqs, the destroyers and the warriors that are surrounding the destroyers. The Scarabs, Stalker, Sypder, DDA, Deathmarks and Flayed-Ones will all work independently (even if they target the same unit(s) ). But, I guess it is a lot of points in a blob compared to everything else. I could put them the 5 units/models on an objective or 2 if all of them are spread out enough so that I am more "protecting" an area of interest rather then the destroyers.
I could drop the warriors to 15 and while it should be more then enough I think its better to be safe then sorry when it comes to numbers when anything can happen in 40K, especially since Smith-Spam is an issue for us :(.
If I was too though, I would field 9 DM, 9DM and 9 FO which will buff them all considerably.
Back to my question; out of the 3 options I listed which one would you say suits best? I can work on improvements once I have everything concrete.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/24 13:46:43
skoffs wrote: I'd assume Kutlakh + Antakyr near a unit or two of Lychguard would be pretty disgusting.
Watching Reecius' latest 'Cron VS Guard match on twitch, he made an interesting point about Immortals.
That for 85 points, MSU Tesla squads are excellent little place-and-forget choices. They're able to operate pretty much autonomously, requiring very little help or management, while still managing to contribute decently to the game (semi-long distance harassment and Objective chasing).
Yeah, they're easier to kill than 10 man squads, but they're not THAT expensive, so you're going to be getting back your points investment throughout the course of the game.
I think a Brick of 15-20 Warriors supported by Cryptek plus a couple minimum sized T.Immortal units may be worth considering for a base/core of most army lists (at a minimum of 454 for those four units, it's definitely a reasonable way to fill a quarter or your points limit).
Also, in the same broadcast he mentioned that big groups of Tesla Tomb Blades and Rod Praetorians were units to be feared this edition... not sure how that would work out, but maybe worth investigating.
That's a good point about min Tesla units. You don't necessarily need MWBD on 10 to do good damage, especially if you're gonna throw it on HDs or Lychguard or Praets.
Still not sold on Tomb Blades. There's enough range in the game that they'll just pop. I kind of want to try Praets as well, but I'm not sure that game was the best indicator of their ability. The IG player made a lot of mistakes so it's a bit misleading imo.
I was toying with bringing a squad of 9 tesla TB against gaunt spam. 9 TB puts out 36 tesla shots a turn, on a more mobile and durable chassis than immortals, ignores the cover bonuses (which is critical for most armies in this edition). Run them with a screening unit of scarabs (so they can pick the combats/get the hell out of dodge if scary cc comes near them) and they are a nasty little unit. Run them near a CCB (can keep up with them very well, and provides his own CC threat/tesla platform), with the 12" command wave, and that unit is now hitting with the 36 tesla shots on 2+, proccing on 5+. They have the 'FLY' keyword so they can fall back and shoot, which immortals cannot. Stick them in cover, and they are also a 2+ save with 2 wounds.... . Point a stalker at the unit you want dead and they're now rerolling 1's. The buffs stack up, but it does eat a lot of the force. Even min with scarabs is 500 points odd for the unit and min. screen. And if you want the same but against elite/shooty armies, then put gauss on them. Ridiculous amount of shots of high quality, cover ignoring gauss. Also
Effective, flexible but expensive, so nowhere near as spammy as 7th, but they are a lot stronger units now considering the meta.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/24 14:53:57
12,000
2017/06/24 14:54:19
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica Thread - New stats mathhammer pg.29 / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Watching Reecius' latest 'Cron VS Guard match on twitch, he made an interesting point about Immortals.
That for 85 points, MSU Tesla squads are excellent little place-and-forget choices. They're able to operate pretty much autonomously, requiring very little help or management, while still managing to contribute decently to the game (semi-long distance harassment and Objective chasing).
Would you always take 10-man squads if you had the points, or do you think it's worth splitting them into 5-man squads anyway?
2017/06/24 14:54:47
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
A pity the tomb blades look so dorky though. I would get them, but I find them more off putting than the vehicles. En par with new Flayed Ones, really. The bike itself looks fine, but the guy riding it looks weird. Like he's asleep at the wheel or something.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/24 14:56:50
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/24 15:03:13
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
I have been looking at the IA book, and the changes to the Nightshroud Bomber are growing on me more and more. Its versatile against hordes, or elite, and does a lot of damage to both. It is a one trick pony, but what other one trick pony can aim at a squad of 20 genestealers and delete them turn 1, before the shooting phase has even begun! Thats 3D6 or 12D6 mortal wounds! If you roll slightly above average there is a high chance it will one shot a hive tyrant. Easy to deny the swarmlords 1st turn bum rush.... if hes dead. Hard for a 'Nid's griblies to stay alive when 40 gauss shots points their way without synapse.
Also, as its not a shooting attack.... it can target characters. Not so good for nids with their big bugs, but if you have a mission critical HQ you need dead, very doable with this. Sure its only 1D6 for a single model thats not a monster or vehicle, but its still that many mortal wounds. Combined with 5 Deathmarks means slay the warlord T1 is in the bag
The tesserack ark looks delishious now! Definetly picking one up. The 5++, augmenting charge rolls with an auto hitting fleshbane AP-2 flamer! And the other profiles are beautiful too!
The aranthracites look different to the stalker/sentinel, overall can put out a lot of comparable damage on a more mobile chassis, meaning more reliable late game vs the deepstriking sentinel/stalker. I feel all are viable choices however.
The big pylon 1 shotting a knight is very nice. The melta sentry pylon looks good due to the fact its cheap long range melta.
Cryptek HQ is amazing! Good for heavy mech lists (which I'm playing tomorrow, tesla spam, mech only list with a few FW units. Will let you know how it goes) and can reroll failed seize the initiative rolls! Mucho handy as alot of our damage seems tied up in how effectively we can neuter their assault T1.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/24 15:21:56
12,000
2017/06/24 15:08:50
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Yeah, the Gauss Pylon is pretty dangerous. I like how they gave it BS2+ to compensate for the Gauss Annihilator penalty against land units. I just noticed its a macro weapon too, so it gets double damage against titanic units. That means it can deal at most 108 wounds against a unit with the titanic keyword. The warlord titan, the largest titan we know of, only has 70 wounds. It is totally possible to one shot a warlord with the gauss pylon, and that is awesome.
I like the new Sentinel. Reece wasn't kidding when he said FW necrons had some nasty AT options. I hope the codex gets something as good.
It seems that FW copy pasted the rules for the void blade though, because that has the same stats as in the codex...which is the same as the hyperphase sword
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/24 15:19:27
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/24 15:16:14
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
I feel if you want a troop slot filled, 10 tesla immortals isnt so bad.
But if you want tesla to be the main attraction in your forces shooting, TB are the way to go. Im spamming tesla tomorrow from vehicles against horde, if it works as well as im hoping im going to run tesla TB in the future.
Granted, they are triple the price of immortals, but they have double the output of damage, move a lot quicker, are more survivable, while simultaneously ignoring cover.
I feel the points investment is worth it. 40 warriors properly buffed/supported puts out a lot of firepower, but its immobile (especially if you don't want to lose cover bonuses). TB should put out comparable damage if its properly buffed, but is way more tactically flexible, for comparable points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/24 15:19:43
12,000
2017/06/24 15:21:41
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
I think you misunderstood the rules for the nightshroud bomber. Its not that you deal 12d6 mortal wounds, you roll up to 12 dice, and for each 3+ you deal a mortal wound.
The max number of models you can kill is 12, not 72.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/24 15:25:49
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I think you misunderstood the rules for the nightshroud bomber. Its not that you deal 12d6 mortal wounds, you roll up to 12 dice, and for each 3+ you deal a mortal wound.
The max number of models you can kill is 12, not 72.
Yep I read that completely wrong. Looking at it now its actually not that great at all. It was good in 7th, I'm currently painting one up Ah well.
12,000
2017/06/24 15:27:59
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Still the best looking necron flyer though.
Seeing that stupid gaping hole in the cockpit of the GW ones gives me a head ache.
"Oh dear, an enemy aircraft. Where oh where am I going to shoot it?!"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/24 15:28:18
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/06/24 15:31:19
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Still the best looking necron flyer though.
Seeing that stupid gaping hole in the cockpit of the GW ones gives me a head ache.
"Oh dear, an enemy aircraft. Where oh where am I going to shoot it?!"
Haha it doesn't have much competition. But you are right. Its surprisingly larger than a DS when the blades and tail are added on.
12,000
2017/06/24 15:59:36
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
CthuluIsSpy wrote: A pity the tomb blades look so dorky though. I would get them, but I find them more off putting than the vehicles. En par with new Flayed Ones, really.
The bike itself looks fine, but the guy riding it looks weird. Like he's asleep at the wheel or something.
I haven't built them in awhile but I think they can be built without the Warrior on it. Just something to think about.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/06/24 16:20:33
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
I lost a head to one of mine and I just brought the (I don't know what to call it) sensor ball down to replace his head and it does look a bit better over all I think.
2017/06/24 16:22:27
Subject: Necron 8th ed. Tactica - New stats mathhammer in OP / Forge World units analysis pg.69
Watched that same FLG batrep, though the real star of that bat rep was the scythe lychguard. Though it did get me to try out Praetorians andy they worked great against primaris marines killed two intercessor squads, two lieutenants, and finished off his hellblasters before he finally got them.
Speaking of primaris marines, lost my first game of 8th ed last night, I did a softball list because i wasn't sure what they could take, and got stomped for my trouble. Hell Blasters are brutal, -4ap is a taste of our own medicine, and even intercessors are very strong in CC. This prompted me to not toss them a softball, in which case I lost a unit of prats and tabled them. So I'm having a hard time thinking of a list that's appropriate to fight them.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
, where can I view all this juicy detail about the forge world stuff? I really need to have this in my possession as soon as possible. 
. Point a stalker at the unit you want dead and they're now rerolling 1's. The buffs stack up, but it does eat a lot of the force. Even min with scarabs is 500 points odd for the unit and min. screen. And if you want the same but against elite/shooty armies, then put gauss on them. Ridiculous amount of shots of high quality, cover ignoring gauss. Also 
12,000 
~4100
~1660
Hard for a 'Nid's griblies to stay alive when 40 gauss shots points their way without synapse.
Ah well.
