Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP

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**vipoid**

skoffs wrote:
It's a Brigade Detachment.
Requires 3 selections from everything, plus 6 troops.
(hence the cheapest selection from Elite and Fast)

I get that, but is it worth taking a Brigade in the first place?

The extra CPs are nice, but to get them you're having to spend 300pts on units that are of dubious efficiency at best, as well as compromising the core premise of the list by using unersized squads.

I'd much rather use a Battalion, drop the deathmarks and have the Immortals as 10-man squads. I think one of the 6 would be left at 8 models, so you could either drop a unit of scarabs to get that one up to 10 as well (either of these would also allow the third Overlord to upgrade to a Warscythe).

That's just my take, anyway.

My take on that list would be a bit different anyway, since I lack both Doomsday Arcs and Pylons. I'd probably just have something like:

Spoiler:

A slight variation would be to drop the scarabs, add an extra Destroyer to one of the units and give the D. Lord and one of the Overlords Staffs of Light. However, that would only be 1999pts, making it worse in every conceivable way.

**skoffs**

There's nothing "wrong" with Deathmarks.
In fact their ability to appear when and where ever you want them is fantastic, especially when countering your opponent's own deepstrike plans (not to mention the fact that getting rid of key HQ is the key to taking down certain lists)

**Requizen**

Scion armies are very much in the meta right now, which alone makes Deathmarks super good. The more the meta lends towards Characters or elite type units coming in from reserves (GK, GSC, Nids with Tyrannocites, Deathwatch, etc), the better they'll be. If the game leans more towards blobs of dudes, good vehicles, or just walking tough units across the table, they're less good. But still good because they're one of the few innate DSers we get in the entire book.

**Moosatronic Warrior**

Deathmarks seem unlikely to ever actually kill anything, certainly not anywhere near enough to justify their cost. However I think every army could use at least one cheap deepstrike unit for objective grabbing.

I would also say that it's never worth significantly altering a list to get extra CP.

**Requizen**

Depends on what needs killing.

A deepstriking blob of Death Company on Jetpacks? No way man.

A 4 man Tempestus Command Squad with 4 Plasma Guns? Should kill 3 on average and save whatever unit it is they were trying to vaporize.

**Moosatronic Warrior**

Bubble wrap scarabs would be a more efficient defense, but if you took the DMs for objective grabbing anyway that would be a handy use for them.

**vipoid**

skoffs wrote:
There's nothing "wrong" with Deathmarks.

Perhaps, but I find them unreliable at best (nt least because their usefulness varies considerably with the list you're facing).

skoffs wrote:
In fact their ability to appear when and where ever you want them is fantastic, especially when countering your opponent's own deepstrike plans (not to mention the fact that getting rid of key HQ is the key to taking down certain lists)

That's true, but again is highly dependant on your opponent having the right list. Many HQs are going to be beyond their ability to kill (barring excessive luck with 6s), and many more will be outside of their optimum range. Likewise, I think countering Deep Strike stuff is going to be very list-dependant. e.g. they can probably make quick work of Scion Command Squads, but will be far less efective against, say, GK deep striking GK Terminators or Paladins. And that's assuming your opponent has deep strikers in the first place.

Again, it's not that Deathmarks are necessarily bad - it's that I wouldn't want to take them at the expense of the units that my list is supposed to be built around.

**davethepak**

Deathmarks do not have to eliminate 100% of the enemy squad - they just have to mess with the other player's head.

"you have a unit that can intercept my deep strike???".

A huge part of this game is about confusing or disrupting the plans of your opponent.

If your opponent is super smart, they may do some quick math, and disregard the deathmarks. If they are super dumb....well, don't need to worry about anything else then..

**vipoid**

davethepak wrote:
Deathmarks do not have to eliminate 100% of the enemy squad - they just have to mess with the other player's head.

One of my rules of list-building is that I never trade function for psychological games.

davethepak wrote:
If your opponent is super smart, they may do some quick math, and disregard the deathmarks. If they are super dumb....well, don't need to worry about anything else then..

I also don't like to rely on my opponent not being smart or making bad decisions.

I appreciate that others may well disagree on this, but that's just how I see it.

**Kuguar6**

skoffs wrote:
Kuguar6 wrote:
In my version of ST i take only immortals
[...]
I take only one cryptek and overlord

Did you feel the Cryptek was worth it?
I mean, if you were just spamming Immortals there wasn't anything expensive that would have really benefited from it, right?
For how much he costs you could have just added a second cheap Overlord which would have given you more MWBD.

Here's my own take on a Immortal based Silver Tide-

Spoiler:

+++ Silver Tide TAC +++

++ Brigade (Necrons) [118 PL, 1998pts] ++

+ HQ +
Overlord [7 PL, 112pts]: Warscythe
Overlord [7 PL, 112pts]: Warscythe
Overlord [7 PL, 104pts]: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +
Immortals [8 PL, 119pts]: 7x Immortal, Gauss Blaster
Immortals [8 PL, 119pts]: 7x Immortal, Gauss Blaster
Immortals [8 PL, 119pts]: 7x Immortal, Gauss Blaster
Immortals [8 PL, 119pts]: 7x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals [8 PL, 119pts]: 7x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals [8 PL, 102pts]: 6x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Elites +
Deathmarks [5 PL, 100pts]: 5x Deathmark
Deathmarks [5 PL, 100pts]: 5x Deathmark
Deathmarks [5 PL, 100pts]: 5x Deathmark

+ Fast Attack +
Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

+ Heavy Support +
(FW) Sentry Pylon [8 PL, 150pts]
. Sentry Pylon: Gauss Exterminator

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

Covers all the TAC bases:
- CC punch
- anti HQ
- anti horde
- anti vehicle
- anti flyer
- screening

Haven't tried it yet (besides, I'll need more Immortals)

For cryptek i take szeras. He boost all immo, once per turn, give better RP and have nice weapon. Troops durability its hard to mathammer. One immo can keep unit alive and give you 5 more.
MVBD on full tesla immo unit give you 5 immo more. 5 immo are cheepest then overlord so i dont need overlord just for MVBD. I take anrakyr for better counter cc.

**Fan67**

Has anyone successfuly faced current top tier lists?

I can't see how necrons can face brimstones, scout limits, scions and mass infantry armies like orks and nids.

Tesla options are way too pricey points per damage and games mostly deviate towards maneurs and lucky malestrom missions draws. Not bad per se but kind of too much counter fluffy for necrons to entirely avoid clashes with the enemy. The nerf of the Tessaract vault trashed it completely and forge world didn't provide any answers.

Would sell my soul for 3-4ed will be back instead of currect protocols.

**Requizen**

They also have other functions with their Interception.

-Changes opponents positioning. Do they try to move in such a way to prevent you from being able to place the Deathmarks as an intercept?
-Drop down into a piece of terrain and create a 2+ unit that must be dealt with, changing the opponent's target priority
-If the opponent is DS'ing a combat unit, you can drop the Deathmarks into the middle of the unit they want to charge. 5 DMs aren't the scariest thing - but now it's another unit they have to deal with if they charge, splitting attacks, eating extra overwatch, etc.

-If they have multiple DS units, you can place the Deathmarks in such a way that the next unit to come in cannot arrive where it wants. They can counter this with clever positioning, but it limits their options.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Honestly Deathmarks are good if only because you'll see Scions a lot. While they're not mathematically the best for mathhammer, the rules they have make them worth the points.

**Kuguar6**

But again, for ST army we want max infrantry wound and hit. DMs have less W and A then warriors and immo. If your ST will have less point then opponent horde you probably lost. DMs grab your points outside ST so they are good for different army style.

**Actinium**

Scions are kind of deathmark's only ideal target and they cost half what the dmarks do. Even something like a 31pt commissar wrapped in conscripts who is only t3 and a 4+ save takes like 180 points of deathmarks to kill.

**davethepak**

vipoid wrote:

One of my rules of list-building is that I never trade function for psychological games.

I also don't like to rely on my opponent not being smart or making bad decisions.

I appreciate that others may well disagree on this, but that's just how I see it.

I am not going to "disagree" with you - but let me expand on this concept - I made my point in a terse manner.

I also rely on function - obviously, their value is also that they can shoot.

HOWEVER - everyone takes the "psychological" tactic in this game.
Or rather - its called tactics and counter tactics.

What model did you deploy first? What did you deploy last? Did you just put an objective near the middle? What type of game plan do you have?
You put X in reserves? what does that mean? The deceiver excells at this - you are completely changing the game after someone had a plan.

Target priority is quite possibly the most important part of the execution of your plan for the game - I have seen many games won or lost this way.
You can make the decisions regarding target priority more difficult by presenting multiple threats - or even feints with units - thus increasing the changes your opponent will make an incorrect decision.

Every single aspect of this game is tactics/psychological - except the actual die rolls.
Just some people are bad at it.

**Klowny**

Fan67 wrote:
Has anyone successfuly faced current top tier lists?

I can't see how necrons can face brimstones, scout limits, scions and mass infantry armies like orks and nids.

Tesla options are way too pricey points per damage and games mostly deviate towards maneurs and lucky malestrom missions draws. Not bad per se but kind of too much counter fluffy for necrons to entirely avoid clashes with the enemy. The nerf of the Tessaract vault trashed it completely and forge world didn't provide any answers.

Would sell my soul for 3-4ed will be back instead of currect protocols.

Fighting brimstone list next week, and have beaten both IG, tabled nids, and fighting orks on Monday. We stand up quite well to them. I was disheartened before playing but after seeing how dangerous we are when we get in close, and how easy it is to get there now....

MWBD Timmortals are very, very good. Trying TB tesla soon, have good hopes. Anni barge is good, just cant draw attention to it. Tesseract vault is AMAZING against hordes (maybe not as great against IG but the rest, shreds hordes and they cant answer its huge wound pool easily.

Every single forgeworld unit is viable, and some are Top Teir now. The ark is probably the best, pylons are dirt cheap for what you get, centipedes are good, HQ's are good, pylon is best macro weapon that FW make.....

**BrotherGecko**

I was pretty impressed with what tesla can do for its points against harder to kill stuff (meq) and I can't imagine tesla would see a reduction in damage output vs horde armies with low Sv

**Zalek**

Hej Guys

I just had my first ever Necron game 1020 points. My opponent was Dark Eldar with a more fluffy list but still had some Dark lances and blasters, and bikers. On turn 3 my opponent conceded with only 1 unit of bikers left on his side after my turn 4, and with me losing only my Tomb blades.

Spoiler:

I chose the Checker style deployment (Can't remember name) so I could be close to Mid as much as possible. Because I only had 6 units I was guaranteed to go first. Naturally my opponent seized the innitiative

Game Notes and Highlights

In a 1000 point game, max unit Immortals and Warriors were never close to being wiped out, and RP bringing back units made it more so.

QS from annihlation barge ignored 9 wounds (4+5) from 2 dark lances, which was magnificant. He decided not to shoot at it with Dark Lances rest of the game

Rapid fire Overwatch from Warriors wiped Hellion unit that tried to charge them

My immortals and Warriors both got charged on different occasions. On my turn I simply fall back, and the other unit shot the charging unit out of the game.

If we get into Rapidfire range + MWBD our troops are very very deadly. Immortals don't really care much about +1 cover save when their weapons -2AP

Overlord was a beast in combat and wiped a unit of Incubi by himself in 2 combat phases. He was left with 2 wounds then got charged by an Archon and took him to 1 wound before dying (To keep the game thematic we decided to make them fight each other withouth interferance, so I didn't charge with my MWBD Immortals to the Archon)

There was no point in game I wished I had a Cryptek for ++5 or +4RP instead of the Overlord.

Doomsday Scythe was deadly with S10, which wiped a Talos that was annoying my warriors and Took Raider down to lowest weapon profile so I could ignore it. Because of careful placing by my opponent, My Doomsday Scythe was forced to fly off the board. It was my first time using a flyer so I have to be more careful in the future, lesson learned

Living Metal was very useful, slowly getting wounds backs on AB and Overlord. My AB finished the game with 1 wound

I had a blast playing the necrons, just all those small rules really makes it enjoyable for me. There is something very satisfying when you opponent rolls 5 damage on D6 dark lance you roll a 1 on your QS save. Our HQs rules look so much more fun than other factions HQ as well. So I am definitely looking forward to my next game

**skoffs**

Reexamining the Silver Tide Immortal Brigade build,
You could take 6 full Immortal units and go cheap minimums on everything else (just because they're the cheapest takes in each category doesn't necessarily mean they're bad takes).

Spoiler:

Functional, but not exactly competitive.
The only thing it might have trouble with is vehicle spam.

**Kuguar6**

3K brigade build looks ok. Example:

Spoiler:

2K build have some tax and dont have flexibility.

**sieGermans**

Are there any serious competitive events at over 2k?

**Denegaar**

I had my first 8th game yesterday. Small game, 500ish point to test the new with my necrons vs my friends Skitarii.

I had 10 warriors, 5 gauss immortals, the Overlord and an Stalker vs 10 vanguard, 5 Ruststalkers the Dominus and a Dunecrawler.

I won at turn 4, very fun to play indeed. Immortals were aces, being way better than its troops, and the Overlord destroyed the Onager in a couple turns. At the end the warriors were impossible to wipe.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I'm still nervous about footslogging anything to be honest. I'm looking at Night Scythes for my Gauss Immortals while the Tesla ones move up the field.

**Requizen**

I like Night Scythes, but they're so expensive, especially since you really want to bring (number of units inside + 1) to try and not lose the dudes within.

**skoffs**

Yeah, units of 10 Gauss Immortals inside Night Scythes is fine, so long as you have more than one. If you can manage to drop them into cover within 12" of a juicy target, they'll do great.
With maxed G.Imms in NSs at the fore, MSU T.Imms on backfield objectives, and a Warrior brick for the midfield, you should have pretty decent field control.

Alternatively you could try using TBs to try the forward push, but they'll probably be more expensive.

10 Immortals (gauss) - 170
10 Immortals (gauss) - 170
1 Night Scythe - 174
1 Night Scythe - 174
= 688

13 Tomb Blades (gauss, shields, scopes) - 663

Who's got better firepower and survivability, though?

**torblind**

I created a simple chart to help compare things like Doomsday Arks vs Heavy Destroyers etc. here:

http://www.dice-hammer.com

Punch in the weapon options for units you'd like to compare, and then toggle forth and back between groups etc. The idea is to show in the same view performance against both hordes and vehicles/monsters

**skoffs**

^
Seems like a cool tool, but I think I ran into a problem.
I tried putting in the stats for Tesla Immortals with MWBD and the top armor save / toughness boxes all just went black.

**Actinium**

That is incredibly helpful, thank you.

Bug report: the range only seems to turn rapid fire on or off and not outrange weapons entirely. For instance a doomsday ark keeps hitting with the cannon and the flayer arrays no matter how far you set the distance but the flayer arrays do get doubled fire at 12 or less. You can still just toggle the arrays on or off to see what you want but something like a knight with 3 or 4 different weapon types with different ranges it gets more fiddly to be toggling and untoggling the whole list.

**torblind**

Thanks! I'll look into it tomorrow. (CET time here)