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Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





So Warrior bricks are good at surviving, but not that great at killing.
And Immortal squads are decent at killing, but aren't so great at surviving.

Is there really something to the "don't bother bringing either of them" camp?
Does the competitive Necron list consist of just Scarabs and Doomsday Arks with a minor dash of something else for flavor?
(at least until we get a codex)

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 skoffs wrote:
So Warrior bricks are good at surviving, but not that great at killing.
And Immortal squads are decent at killing, but aren't so great at surviving.

Is there really something to the "don't bother bringing either of them" camp?
Does the competitive Necron list consist of just Scarabs and Doomsday Arks with a minor dash of something else for flavor?
(at least until we get a codex)


So in my own experience and many others that i have read on here. The silver tide just doesnt cut it. There is not enough options in High S and High AP weapons that will really make the core units withstand what our opponents will bring. The idea you need to have when list building is your opponent is going first most of the time. So how do you plan for your opponent who will get to shoot at full power at your troops? Give them a target worth shooting at but that you can afford to throw away or that can withstand some heavy shooting. Competitive list right now have scarabs everything else is pretty much up to what kind of build you want to make.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





About girlyman, doesnt zandrekh disable auras of one enemy char per turn or something?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

 crunkDealer wrote:
About girlyman, doesnt zandrekh disable auras of one enemy char per turn or something?


It's a little more nuanced, but yeah. The counter tactics rule goes at the beginning of an enemy turn if The nemesor is within 12" of at least one unit with an aura, he can choose a unit within that range and turn off all of that units auras until the opponent's next turn. The challenge is of course getting within 12" of Girlyman, Deep strike is right out as he is going to be bubble wrapped, and walking across the board is a non-starter. So that leaves deceiver bomb or tomb world deploy via a night scythe. Night scythe is turn two earliest and dropping off a single IC (because only one unit at a time can be deployed) is a sure way to get him murdered. So that leaves deceived bomb and the hope you go first. I've been playing around with the list required to get him in, and I haven't come up with anything that is TAC.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in au
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Perth

Whats better, Gauss Sentry pylon or 2 HD? HD are more mobile, but unsupported they are a LOT more fragile. Sentry pylon has better range, but is practically immobile.

12,000
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Hey can someone answer or direct me to the relevant page (bit difficult to trawl through 104) with Monolith deploying assault squads?

I plan to have mine deep strike in, then drop off lychguard next turn. I want to know if after that they can both move and charge or just charge.

As far as I could tell they can mov before charging as they come out of the mono at the beginning of the movement phase, not the end, leaving them with a move. But maybe I'm wrong due to reserve nuances.

Thanks
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





This is not clarified, not in here or in any faq.
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





As the Monolith and Night Scythe lack the TRANSPORT keyword, via RAW, any unit that arrives from Tomb World deployment counts arriving from reserves (like Deathmarks or Flayed Ones), not disembarking, which counts as having moved, which means they can't move again that turn (note, they CAN charge, though... but it'll be a 9" charge, so not advisable).
We're assuming it's a mistake/omission, and REALLY needs to addressed in a FAQ, otherwise both vehicles are practically useless for transporting anything other than shooters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/01 10:13:52


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Oh...that sucks. So I'd be paying ~400 pts to give the Lychguard a deepstrike that is spread over two turns with the monolith.

Well, letting them move would be one way to fix it, but letting the come out the turn the monolith turns up would pretty much just give them a true deepstrike which is not terrible.

But yes, I can't see that being intended, honestly how are lychguard ever supposed to get into combat?

Shame, I was so excited for having fun with monoliths again.
   
Made in no
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





Depends how friendly or competitive your game is.

You could hold the monolith back till late game, then deep strike in on an important flank to apply pressure, forcing them to respond, either to pull back or to turn their attention
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith



United States

Aren73 wrote:
Oh...that sucks. So I'd be paying ~400 pts to give the Lychguard a deepstrike that is spread over two turns with the monolith.

Well, letting them move would be one way to fix it, but letting the come out the turn the monolith turns up would pretty much just give them a true deepstrike which is not terrible.

But yes, I can't see that being intended, honestly how are lychguard ever supposed to get into combat?

Shame, I was so excited for having fun with monoliths again.


You and me both. I think our transport situation is ridiculous, especially since our movement has been nerfed.
I'm really annoyed that the night scythe doesn't allow units on the table to embark and that the monolith (with it's very high point cost) doesn't allow the eternity gate to teleport already deployed units. It's ALWAYS had that ability and NEVER been this expensive before.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/01 12:25:28


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So has anyone else reviewed the results of this last tourney B.A.O? Looks like its all about the conscripts and basilisk.
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Blueguy203 wrote:
So has anyone else reviewed the results of this last tourney B.A.O? Looks like its all about the conscripts and basilisk.
Got a link?

 
   
Made in au
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Perth

Blueguy203 wrote:So has anyone else reviewed the results of this last tourney B.A.O? Looks like its all about the conscripts and basilisk.


Yeah we'll have to wait for the conscript nerf before things will settle down, otherwise there was a lot of variety in the top tables. Lots of vehicles, still think the pylon will keep us competitive.

skoffs wrote:
Blueguy203 wrote:
So has anyone else reviewed the results of this last tourney B.A.O? Looks like its all about the conscripts and basilisk.
Got a link?


There's a thread in the general discussion skoffs

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Made in ru
Fresh-Faced New User




Is there any thread where we may cry about tweaking our units ?

I mean if there any way to let GW know that they've forgot to make the Scythe transport, as well make the Doomskythe stable heavy wepon platform?
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




So what are the typical Deceiver uses? To me all I can see is possibly setting up a turn two charge (Provided the units survive. Granted adding turn one pressure can be a use as well) or to get something in a turn one rapid fire range. But if there are other, less obvious uses, I'd love to know about them as I want to one a Deceiver in my lists.
   
Made in nl
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm




Holland

Is it just me or does it seem weird that the ctan dont have living metal as a rule? I mean their whole corporeal body is supposed to be made of the stuff. While our HQ should have a body like the rest of the crons, just better.

- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...- 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So my thoughts on the Deciever is that we need to utilize the grand illusion ability with scarabs rather than lynchguard. For one, throwing out there a 300 pt unit with the possibility of no support other than the deciever is to great a risk. Atleast the scarabs will be cheaper and have more wounds (assuming 10 guards vs 9 scarabs). By presenting such a small throw away unit you can then use those scarabs to then tie up those units that you need to tie up and then reposition everything else.
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith





I've been trying out the deceiver not as a bomb all in alpha thing but just as a way to reposition units into cover or out of los and it seems pretty strong. A lot of uses based on the opponent like just putting an immortal unit into cover on a distant flank against orkz now do they take an entire 30 man unit of boyz just to try and chase that down or do they try to continue to march/jump toward your main force and just get shot in the side/back all game by the 1 unit, or against artillery the deceiver himself and a big unit of scarabs can appear along the side of the enemy deployment and between the main army's tesla and a seismic assault maybe open a hole in the screens to get a turn 2 assault in, or just switch from an offensive to a defensive posture or vice versa based on if you or they got seized on, that kind of stuff.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 skoffs wrote:
Blueguy203 wrote:
So has anyone else reviewed the results of this last tourney B.A.O? Looks like its all about the conscripts and basilisk.
Got a link?


Here is the link you requested.

https://mismatchedplay.com/2017/08/01/army-lists-from-the-bao/

   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Nagerash wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem weird that the ctan dont have living metal as a rule? I mean their whole corporeal body is supposed to be made of the stuff. While our HQ should have a body like the rest of the crons, just better.


Yeah, I don't get that either. And regaining 1 wound per turn hardly seems overpowered.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in no
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





Is there any way to find the necrons list from BAO 2017 and how they performed?
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

torblind wrote:
Is there any way to find the necrons list from BAO 2017 and how they performed?


Since no necron list made top 10 we'll need people to self report on lists and placement.

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Made in no
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





 buddha wrote:
torblind wrote:
Is there any way to find the necrons list from BAO 2017 and how they performed?


Since no necron list made top 10 we'll need people to self report on lists and placement.


Is it possible to see how many signed up with necrons even?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation



Well that's depressing as feth, I just checked and the top placing necron finished 46th, with a 3/3/0. Here is the complete placements:

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/79exy3cp

We could have had a Ynarri win, but he drew against the tau. I don't have the heart to do the math right now, but it looks like our top spot was the lowest among the main armies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/02 01:56:58


Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in au
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Perth

 Grimgold wrote:


Well that's depressing as feth, I just checked and the top placing necron finished 46th, with a 3/3/0. Here is the complete placements:

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/79exy3cp

We could have had a Ynarri win, but he drew against the tau. I don't have the heart to do the math right now, but it looks like our top spot was the lowest among the main armies.


Did he have a pylon though...

12,000
 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

Necrons are amazing and my phalanx regularly wins against tournament level lists and opponents (anecdotal evidence of course). But they are a mid table army at best. You can be a terror at your local club but until we get a dex we will be stuck there for the truly competitive.

They simply aren't top table material though because in a tournament you will simply have too many bad matchups which happen to be the current meta.

IG conscript spam like the top 2 lists we have no real counter for. We can only delay or get lucky against Bobby G in any list. Parking lot SM have enough firepower that necron bricks, and thus RP mean nothing. And we suck at dealing with flyers. Look at the top lists and you'll see that is the exact winning meta.

We are actually decent against yannari at least even if it's a small consolation.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/02 02:28:57


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Made in au
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Perth

 buddha wrote:
Necrons are amazing and my phalanx regularly wins against tournament level lists and opponents (anecdotal evidence of course). But they are a mid table army at best. You can be a terror at your local club but until we get a dex we will be stuck there for the truly competitive.

They simply aren't top table material though because in a tournament you will simply have too many bad matchups which happen to be the current meta.

IG conscript spam like the top 2 lists we have no real counter for. We can only delay or get lucky against Bobby G in any list. Parking lot SM have enough firepower that necron bricks, and thus RP mean nothing. And we suck at dealing with flyers. Look at the top lists and you'll see that is the exact winning meta.

We are actually decent against yannari at least even if it's a small consolation.


True, Phalanxes dont do well against alot of the top lists, but we DO have enough firepower to deal with flyers and parking lot lists very, very easily. Not only from FW, but our index dakka is very good.

Our only answer to conscripts in their current state is TB w/ scopes, and scarabs. Nothing else comes close to outputting enough damage to neuter the FRFSRF damage. Run 9 blades and scarabs, Rapid fire the blades and charge the scarabs in the same turn, expect to kill a 50 man squad in 1 turn. I know its a terrible amount of points to invest into it, but both these squads can threaten everything else on the board pretty well, so its not that much of a loss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I personally don't think phalanx's are top table material, especially after the battleshock nerf. But I think if conscripts get adjusted, and vehicle spam/alpha strikes comes back into the meta, we can place very highly. Most lists will be bringing lascannons to deal with tanks, we shrug their damage off while blowing up multiple tanks/flyers a turn. Alpha strike DS lists (scion spam for example) are easily countered by smart deployment and protection of their intended targets. We can get low enough drops to come close to getting first turn alot, and our alpha is brutal, even if we dont take a pylon.

GW has pushed HQ/infantry synergy on top of infantry spam as the way to play, but until our codex comes out, all of our powerful units and combos that are not hilariously cost prohibitive do not require HQ buffs to operate at maximum efficiency. This allows more flexibility in play and tactical choices, as we are not tethered to HQ's that can be sniped out etc.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/02 03:02:56


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Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith





What do scopes have to do with conscripts? They almost never get a cover bonus with their unit size. Also a regular unbuffed 10 man tesla immortal unit beats 50 conscripts with a commissar taking orders at 13"+ for the same cost it just takes 5 or 6 turns, and we're kind of uniquely qualified to be able to say that about a bread and butter troops choice.

The main problem in that match up is the artillery, we have some solid anti tank stuff now but we aren't great at splitting the damage among like 7 different chassis or getting around the board if they're out of los, while they are uniquely suited to fething quantum shielding or heavy destroyers with fist fulls of d3 damage, or to reach out anywhere on the board and drop the last 3 or 4 models in a unit to deny RP and push those infantry fights out of our favor.
   
Made in au
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Perth

 Actinium wrote:
What do scopes have to do with conscripts? They almost never get a cover bonus with their unit size. Also a regular unbuffed 10 man tesla immortal unit beats 50 conscripts with a commissar taking orders at 13"+ for the same cost it just takes 5 or 6 turns, and we're kind of uniquely qualified to be able to say that about a bread and butter troops choice.

The main problem in that match up is the artillery, we have some solid anti tank stuff now but we aren't great at splitting the damage among like 7 different chassis or getting around the board if they're out of los, while they are uniquely suited to fething quantum shielding or heavy destroyers with fist fulls of d3 damage, or to reach out anywhere on the board and drop the last 3 or 4 models in a unit to deny RP and push those infantry fights out of our favor.


They almost never get a cover bonus to the full unit but they will get a cover save for lots of them, this negates that, and all of their armour, which rapidly shreds blobs.

If you think 10 tesla immortals will last more than 1 round of shooting vs a conscript blob....... . Mathhammer is okay, but in reality 10 tesla immortals WILL draw fire from the army, and I doubt they will last more than 2 turns. We cannot attrition a infantry based spam guard army, we will be closed to tabled a lot of the time. If necron's cannot win a war of attrition, no one else has a chance.

A couple of our big guns will cripple multiple tanks a turn, taking them down to the lower teirs where their shooting is 90% negated. Then you just move on to the ones at full strength. So long as you deploy correctly to deny scion DS, DDA, stalkers, SPylons, TA, HD's etc will last long enough to do their job. We can cheaply saturate the board with enough long range (out of range/position of their autocannons) High STR multi damage weapons and can shred their backlines very effectively.

I play against conscript/HWT/Scion spam + tanks all the time, its my main opponent. I have never struggled with their tanks at all. My opponent usually takes 6-7 tanks (Flamer tanks, basalisks, wyverns, the multi rocket ones) which is 2 turns of good shooting to neuter. Not kill, but when they're hitting on 6's....

A bigger problem is HWT spam. THAT is impossible to neuter, as there is just too many teams to deal with.

Always focus autocannons when facing guard (hardest counter to QS), dont go near conscripts, focus wyverns/mortar teams first (these do ridiculous damage to our infantry). Guard are an uphill battle, I haven't lost yet against them but a few have been pretty clutch.

Our main problem against guard is displacing conscripts, and HWT. Their tanks are actually some of the weaker units in their army. Theyre in a strange place RN, where their screening chaff does more heavy lifting than the big guns their meant to be protecting.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/02 03:46:46


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