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2017/07/30 02:54:32
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Yeah a knight and 2 onagers took down my tanks, kataphrons with grav shredded my wraiths and TB.
I agree with Destroyers being in a weird spot. They're really good against infantry, and I can see them excelling against space marines and their equivalents. But once the troops were gone their damage output dropped off significantly, and they became HQ protection after a point. I honestly couldn't say who my MVP was, TB and Destroyers both did a lot of heavy lifting in different ways. I played that list just to try out a large number of TB and wraiths, and wanted to see what a maxed squad of Destroyers could do.
12,000
2017/07/30 03:06:14
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Buckyeye6 wrote: Would anyone be able to recommend a 1000 point list that would best demonstrate how necrons play? Not sure if this is the correct place to ask but thought I'd give it a shot.
This is as good a place as any, we are all pretty relaxed, and can often get off topic from time to time. If you are not super worried about being competitive and just want to sample from the necron buffet, the below list is one I used to get my arms around 8th ed for necrons:
It's a fairly good match against the dark imperium forces without being overwhelming, just watch out for CC, and get the scarabs on the hell blasters ASAP. If you want more CC you could trade up to some wraiths, but I think learning to use scarabs as screens will be valuable practice. You'll get most of this list from the start collecting box. It gets the basics of necron buffing, tesla, how to most effectively use Reanimation protocols, and some experience with quantum shielding. Once you get this list down then it's just learning heavy vehicles like the doomsday ark, and our more specialized units like tomb blades and praetorians.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/07/30 07:47:06
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I myself always compare 4 Destroyers to 1 Tesseract Ark. For around the same points you get a better gun with separate profiles, 2 Gauss Cannons (no point because the 2nd Assault D6 is the same as them and better) or 2 Tesla Cannons. Better thoughness, QS, Living Metal, Long range and Short range weaponary. Etc.
I guess I just love the Tesseract Ark and will rather take one then the Destroyers until my requirements that I posted early are met.
The TA is indeed excellent. It's anti tank capabilities doesn't quite reach the level of Heavy Destroyers. As Grimgold mentioned you will need to have something that can effectivley deal with T8. I wrote a axtensive summary on another forum.
My heavy support rankings
Spoiler:
Introduction
I have math hammered a bit and formed some opinions on our heavy weapon platforms and ranked them by:
1. Damage output
2. Toughness
3. Range
4. Support weapons
5. Abilites
6. Mobility
7. Close combat
The following units have been included and points values have been normalized in the calculations (not included) that I've made, so that they are compared point for point.
- Doomsday Ark
- Heavy Destroyer
- Sentry Pylon
- Stalker
- Tesseract Ark
- Tomb Sentinel
I have not included the Monolith, Obelisk or Tesseract Vault because they are really lacking heavy firepower compared to their points cost.
The Doom Scythe is also not included because its terribly overcosted. Comparing to other Necron vehicles it should cost about 170 points and compared to other factions flyers (say hello to Stormtalons, Stormhawks and perhaps Hemlock Wraithfighters) its still expensive if it should be priced at 170 points.
The Gauss Pylon is not included because of reasons. (Hint, I will add it later).
Rankings summary
The Necrons heavy weapon platforms seems to be very well balanced.
They all have a place in a Necron armylist depending on what role they need to fill.
- Sentry Pylons and Heavy Destroyers do the most damage, but they might also be dead by turn 2-3. So you will need to have other threats in your army that draws the opponents attention.
- The Stalker will buff other units and is by itself not an optimal choice, but it's not bad either since it's pretty though and have a (bit below) average damage output.
- The Doomsday Ark and Tesseract Ark does not have the damage output of the Sentry Pylon, but are tough and will hopefully survive many turns. They also have support weapons and does not necessarily need to be screened.
- The Tomb Sentinel can be used to attack a weak spot in the enemy line such as artillery if they are left unguarded.
Rankings
Starting with the most important.
1. Damage output, only heavy weapons, at normalized point value: 1. Sentry Pylon with heat cannon
2. Heavy Destroyer
3. Tesseract Ark
4. Tomb Sentinel
4. Stalker
5. Doomsday Ark
The Sentry Pylon has almost twice the damage output of the Doomsday Ark (not including Flayer arrays).
At melta range the Sentry Pylon has superior firepower to the rest.
From the Heavy Destroyer there is a 20% drop to the Tesseract Ark which has a similiar damage output as the Tomb sentinel.
The Tomb Sentinel has however only 12" range so you need to Phase tunnel or move and shoot.
From there 10% drop between the rest.
2. Toughness at normalized point value 1. Tesseract Ark
2. Stalker
3. Doomsday Ark
4. Tomb Sentinel
5. Sentry Pylon
6. Heavy Destroyer
Quantum shielding is calculated into toughness, RP and Living metal are not.
The Tesseract Arks 5++ brings it to the top.
Units without Quantum shielding fair poorly against melta, lascannons and other high damage weapons.
The Heavy Destroyer is really lagging here, but that is somewhat redeemed by RP.
3. Range 1. Doomsday Ark
2. Tesseract Ark
3. Heavy Destroyer
4. Sentry Pylon, Stalker
5. Tomb Sentinel
Heavy Destroyer are above Sentry Pylon and Stalker since it can move and fire without penalty thus extending its effective range.
The Tomb Sentinel is most likely Phase tunneled into position, but then it suffers move and shoot penalty.
4. Support weapons 1. Doomsday Ark
2. Tesseract Ark
NA. Stalker, Sentry Pylon, Heavy Destroyer, Tomb Sentinel
Tesseract Ark might be at number one since it has three firing modes on its main weapon and has three other weapon options.
5. Abilities (my opinions) 1. Heavy Destroyers (RP, Hardwired hatred, Repulsor platform)
2. Tomb Sentinel (Gloom prism, Phase tunneling, Living metal)
3. Stalker (Targeting relay, Living metal)
4. Sentry Pylon (Artillery battery, Teleportation Matrix, Living metal)
5. Tesseract Ark (Gravitational flux, Tesseract implosion, Living metal)
6. Doomsday Ark (Living metal)
Quantum shielding and invul. saves are already calculated into toughness.
6. Mobility 1. Tomb Sentinel
2. Heavy Destroyer
3. Doomsday Ark and Tesseract Ark
4. Stalker
5. Sentry Pylon
I've included the effect of deep strike abilities into mobility.
Since Destroyers can move and shoot without penalty they have a high mobility.
Although the Sentry Pylon can teleport it's terribly slow afterwards.
7. Close combat 1. Tomb Sentinel
2. Stalker
3. Heavy Destroyer
4. Doomsday Ark and Tesseract Ark
5. Sentry Pylon
Doomsday Ark and Tesseract Ark have Fly so are therefore positioned above the Sentry Pylon.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/30 12:04:47
2017/07/30 08:26:59
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
buddha wrote: In CC you can get lucky with the nightbringer.
For the most part Bobby G is very vulnerable to shooting. Warriors will down him in enough numbers. Multi wounds weapons like heavy gauss,you death Ray's DDA also really put the hurt on. In CC though not much in the game (not just a necron problem) can touch him. I don't try and just feed him units, retreat then shoot. Not ideal but also not much you can do against him.
Eh?
How is he possibly vulnerable to shooting? You're not even allowed to target him in the first place.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2017/07/30 08:48:04
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
The TA is indeed excellent. It's anti tank capabilities doesn't quite reach the level of Heavy Destroyers. As Grimgold mentioned you will need to have something that can effectivley deal with T8. I wrote a axtensive summary on another forum.
The TA can deal with toughness 8? The Singularity Chambers Solar Flare profile is Heavy D6 S 8 AP -3 D6 while a Heavy Destroyer is Heavy 1 S 9 AP -4 D6. Both wound on 4s so I would rather the D6 shots over a single shot as you can never do worse only better. Also, 3 H Destroyers is 225 and only 3 S9 D D6 attacks while the TA is 240-260 for "worse" guns but more of them, weapons that can do D1, D3 and D D6 damage and more veritile as you can literally have it in front of your opponent melting everything they have or keep it back field and melt everything they have with the heat of the sun.
buddha wrote: In CC you can get lucky with the nightbringer.
For the most part Bobby G is very vulnerable to shooting. Warriors will down him in enough numbers. Multi wounds weapons like heavy gauss,you death Ray's DDA also really put the hurt on. In CC though not much in the game (not just a necron problem) can touch him. I don't try and just feed him units, retreat then shoot. Not ideal but also not much you can do against him.
Eh?
How is he possibly vulnerable to shooting? You're not even allowed to target him in the first place.
With the implication, of course, that you've chewed through screening units. When Bobby G is threatening you in CC this shooting opportunities will be easier.
Buckyeye6 wrote: Would anyone be able to recommend a 1000 point list that would best demonstrate how necrons play? Not sure if this is the correct place to ask but thought I'd give it a shot.
This is as good a place as any, we are all pretty relaxed, and can often get off topic from time to time. If you are not super worried about being competitive and just want to sample from the necron buffet, the below list is one I used to get my arms around 8th ed for necrons:
It's a fairly good match against the dark imperium forces without being overwhelming, just watch out for CC, and get the scarabs on the hell blasters ASAP. If you want more CC you could trade up to some wraiths, but I think learning to use scarabs as screens will be valuable practice. You'll get most of this list from the start collecting box. It gets the basics of necron buffing, tesla, how to most effectively use Reanimation protocols, and some experience with quantum shielding. Once you get this list down then it's just learning heavy vehicles like the doomsday ark, and our more specialized units like tomb blades and praetorians.
Exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
2017/07/30 14:07:19
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
After inspiration from other forum members in this thread, I made my own Toholk the Blinded out of a cairn wraith model. I didnt have a TDB to model him with so made his Aesonstave extra fancy. SUPER fun to build and paint!! Next up is my pylon, thats gonna take a lot of paint..
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I know its not tactics, just wanted to share my creation with everyone here
12,000
2017/07/30 16:38:19
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
The TA is indeed excellent. It's anti tank capabilities doesn't quite reach the level of Heavy Destroyers. As Grimgold mentioned you will need to have something that can effectivley deal with T8. I wrote a axtensive summary on another forum.
The TA can deal with toughness 8? The Singularity Chambers Solar Flare profile is Heavy D6 S 8 AP -3 D6 while a Heavy Destroyer is Heavy 1 S 9 AP -4 D6. Both wound on 4s so I would rather the D6 shots over a single shot as you can never do worse only better. Also, 3 H Destroyers is 225 and only 3 S9 D D6 attacks while the TA is 240-260 for "worse" guns but more of them, weapons that can do D1, D3 and D D6 damage and more veritile as you can literally have it in front of your opponent melting everything they have or keep it back field and melt everything they have with the heat of the sun.
Heavy Destroyers wound T8 on 3+ and have -4 rend, they also reroll 1's on to hit rolls. Heavy destroyers do better damage to high T targets such as Knights and Land raiders and a little bit better damage against T7 3+.
Once again it's importat to be able to handle different toughness tiers that's why TA complement Heavy destroyers and DDA, not replace them.
2017/07/30 21:29:58
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Yeah I was wondering why heavy d's dont get much adoration, they seem to be the prime anti-vehicle workhorse of the army to the point of being a staple unit. I would think Any necron army with 10 immortals and 3 heavy destroyers could give any point equivalent a run for their money (minus T3 blobs which are prob better handled with plain warriors)
That said I just got tomb sentinel which is pretty lulzy but it's really easy to partially counter it, only 12" range on the gun. I'd love to try the tesseract ark but cant find a cheap one on ebay
2017/07/30 22:42:04
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Could try converting up a TA, thats what im doing. The back half is the back half of the ark kit, just with different exhaust ports. All you really need to do is convert up the big front shield and its good to go.
2017/07/30 23:42:17
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
That said I just got tomb sentinel which is pretty lulzy but it's really easy to partially counter it, only 12" range on the gun.
I like to DS the Sentinel in then target a unit with its S 10 AP -4 D 3 weapon and roll for a 9.1 inch charge. re-rolling a dice via CP if I fail.
Get into CC and hope you get the unit down to 4 wounds or less because it is better to be stuck in CC then to take down the unit. If it stays in CC your Sentinel cannot get shoot at by other units and you will definitely kill the unit you in CC with or. Your opponent will Fall Back, shoot the hell out of the Sentinel leaving your other crons untouched. Then, on your turn. You can do the same routine and slowly devour your opponents hard-hitting units.
I ran this will 8 units of 7 Scarabs to act like a "meat shield" for smite. Got the Sentinel to CC the unit of choice, got 3 Scarabs to hold up 3 other units that peaked my interest, other Scarabs acted as meat shields.
Then T2 I would FB one unit of Scarabs, target the unit the Scarabs left with the Sentinel. While have 2-3 TA as my Gun line and a Triarch Stalker.
I found that to be quite effective tbh. Well, it was affective against the Tzeentch army I was against recently.
In a week or so I will be fielding a 2000pts fast paced list against 4 (roughly) 500pt lists.
[Vanguard]
Anrak with 2 praetorian (x10) units supported with a stalker (HG)
[Outrider]
Destroyer Lord with 2 destroyer units(x4 GC/1xHG) supported with 9 scarabs
Going to be brutal to vs but I wanted to see how force felt against dif armies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/31 01:28:53
2017/07/31 03:50:18
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I have found the Tesseract Ark to be quite good in a game - its lack of S9 was not as big a deal, as I also had a DDA in the game (as pointed out above, it is an addition, not a replacement for the DDA or Heavy destroyers).
The diversity of weapons and the 5++ really help a lot.
Regarding its price - just save up for it and get it - show foregworld that there is love for something other than 30k stuff...
Just one note; it is a bit tricky to build - I suggest building it in components, then painting it, then finally assembly.
DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
Fully Painted armies:
TAU: 10k Nids: 9600 Marines: 4000 Crons: 7600
Actor, Gamer, Comic, Corporate Nerd
2017/07/31 03:59:34
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
davethepak wrote: I have found the Tesseract Ark to be quite good in a game - its lack of S9 was not as big a deal, as I also had a DDA in the game (as pointed out above, it is an addition, not a replacement for the DDA or Heavy destroyers).
The diversity of weapons and the 5++ really help a lot.
Regarding its price - just save up for it and get it - show foregworld that there is love for something other than 30k stuff...
Just one note; it is a bit tricky to build - I suggest building it in components, then painting it, then finally assembly.
I'm starting mine in a little bit, what's tricky about it?
12,000
2017/07/31 06:57:43
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
skoffs wrote: If 3 Scarabs are too easy to wipe out, and 9 Scarabs are overkill, what's the sweet spot?
(and how many units of that number would you want to be running in a list?)
Six is the number for me.
2017/07/31 06:59:26
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I feel if you run max squads of scarabs you can start to use them offensively. They put out a bucketload of attacks, and they start do actually do stuff that isnt just protect stuff. Gives more of a choice.
12,000
2017/07/31 09:20:02
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
[Vanguard]
Anrak with 2 praetorian (x10) units supported with a stalker (HG)
[Outrider]
Destroyer Lord with 2 destroyer units(x4 GC/1xHG) supported with 9 scarabs
The only shooting that will benefit from the Stalker will be the Praetorians. It kinda seems like maybe you should be using those points on something else.
And Anrakyr is too slow to be of much use with the Praetorians.
2017/07/31 10:15:24
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
[Vanguard]
Anrak with 2 praetorian (x10) units supported with a stalker (HG)
[Outrider]
Destroyer Lord with 2 destroyer units(x4 GC/1xHG) supported with 9 scarabs
The only shooting that will benefit from the Stalker will be the Praetorians. It kinda seems like maybe you should be using those points on something else.
And Anrakyr is too slow to be of much use with the Praetorians.
Yip the stalker was included when the points were set at a thousand. But when they were increased I kept it mainly for the theme. My opponents know how powerful and beneficial the stalker can be from the games it's been played against them so I know they will spend a turn or two trying to wreak it. ( they haven't faced off against either prets or dests yet)
Anrakyr may struggle on one or two turns but I know my opponents will be deep striking units close to me so I will have a few turns of assists in CC whilst my dest wing moves around the flank pushing forces back towards my mid field preats.
2017/07/31 17:08:09
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
So after having spent some time thinking about Roboute Guilliman, I've come to accept we don't have a good solution for him. He causes the units around him to hit at a bit more than twice their normal ability, and since he is more or less invulnerable in his bubble of bodies, we have to fight him on his terms. Hitting his back lines is difficult because he can screen them with units that daisy chain into the aura. His weight of fire is so overwhelming that there is no way we can win a firefight, because he will just wipe units making RP a non-issue. Without RP we are about as tough as SMQ, so matched on toughness and overwhelmed on offense makes the outcome inevitable.
If we can't beat him in a fair fight, we'll have to beat him by other means. We can combine two tricks to give us a fighting chance. The first trick is the deceiver bomb, which will let us get in close enough to get an alpha strike in, if we can hurt him enough early enough we might be able to snowball that damage into a win. The second is Nemesor Zahndrekh, I misread his rule, and it turns out he is a hard counter for Roboute, if you can end your turn within 12" of Roboute you can shut down all of his auras for his next turn and your next turn.
The idea goes something like this, Using the deceiver get the nemesor as close as you can to Roboute, he'll need to finish his movement within 12" of Roboute so don't be afraid to advance. For the second/third tag along Bring a unit like immortals or destroyers, something that can hit hard from range (because he will still have his aura in CC on your turn). Then use Obyron to bring in a 10 man lychguard squad into range for a charge, bonus points if you can get a line on papa smurf since 10 lychguard should be able to mess him up, but we'll assume that our opponent is competent and properly screened him. If possible daisy chain a lychguard back to the nemesor because he just became the only target in your army.
He'll have two choices, book it, or go all in on the nemesor, no matter what happens though you've hurt him and stopped him from hurting you, and you have a fighting chance. Still working out how to pull this off if he wins deployment or seizes.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/07/31 17:35:26
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
The basic plan is that the troops, HQs, and stalkers walk up the board, with the ghost ark acting to restore a warrior squad that got focus fired to death. Anrakyr would double the amount of attacks that the Warriors and immortals could make, and thus allow them to take charges and fight in melee well. Szeras's strength buff would also become less bad with Anrakyr doubling the amount of attacks. The Triarch stalkers would escort the main blob and mark enemy units for death. The doomsday arks relax in the back and snipe vehicles with stalker support, while deathmarks act to discourage deep strikes on them. I think it might be worth it to replace the deathmarks and the Doomsday Arks with two Tesseract Arks, or a Gauss Pylon
Mobile Spearhead/Outrider Detachment:
Spoiler:
HQ: Destroyer Lord with a warscythe and a res orb, Cattacomb Command Barge with warscythe and res orb
Fast Attack: 3 squads of 5 destroyers with a heavy destroyer per squad
Heavy: 3 Annihilation Barges
This list would work by moving quickly across the board, snatching objectives, and using the destroyer lord in conjunction with the barge to guarantee that one of the destroyers hits all of its hits. The annihilation barges would act as horde control. One possibility is to replace a destroyer from each squad and an annihilation barge with a Tesseract ark for additional anti-tank support.
Ctan Based Battalion:
Spoiler:
HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller, Overlord with Res Orb and Warscythe
Troops: 10 Gauss Immortals, 10 Gauss Immortals, 10 Tesla Immortals
Elite: Ctan Shard of the Nightbringer, Ctan Shard of the Deciever, 10 x Triarch Praetorians with void blades and particle casters
Heavy: 2 Heat Ray Sentry Pylons
This list would Basiclaly be one big gimmicky deepstrike. The Deciever would drop the gauss immortals into cover in rapid fire range, and if It gets lucky it would drop Anrakyr into a good position. The Nightbringer and the Triarch praetorians would move as a squad and Anrakyr would try to keep pace with them to give a bonus attack to the praetorians. The pylons would be able to deep strike into melta range to liquefy tanks early on, and the Deciever would teleport itself into a good hard to see position and use its Ctan powers in safety turn one.
I'm not sure how these lists would fair, but I am looking for feedback on any of them, and any improvements that could be made.
2017/07/31 17:57:11
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Biasn wrote: So , after all the other factions are talking about their codex wishes , what would you guys like to see changed/adjusted?
Artefacts
More access to weapon options and wargear for HQs
Clarification on nightscythe and monoliths transportation ie are they transports, can transportees move after 'disembark'?
For necron keywords to have meanings
Point reduction for some key units
Can we not turn the tactics thread into a wish list thread? From previous experience that has a tendency to get out of control very quickly, with pages and pages of irrelevant discussion that people who are looking for tips on how to play will have to dig through.
There are other parts of the forum that would be more appropriate places to discus that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/31 17:58:27
2017/07/31 18:27:27
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Thanks for all the replies on Imotekh. I tried him and he just felt pretty lackluster. Felt he was far to expensive for only 3 shots a turn at 18".
I've got a tournament coming up this Saturday and I'm struggling to figure out how to finish this list. I've got access to pretty much everything except destroyers, what would you guys do? I'm thinking maybe dropping a couple warriors and adding a C'tan, or adding a Ghost Ark to help keep the warriors up. The reason I've split the scarabs into a squad of 6 and two squads of 3 is because we're playing ITC missions so kill points may be drawn. Going up to 4 scarabs doubles their PL.
thisguyy wrote: Thanks for all the replies on Imotekh. I tried him and he just felt pretty lackluster. Felt he was far to expensive for only 3 shots a turn at 18".
I've got a tournament coming up this Saturday and I'm struggling to figure out how to finish this list. I've got access to pretty much everything except destroyers, what would you guys do? I'm thinking maybe dropping a couple warriors and adding a C'tan, or adding a Ghost Ark to help keep the warriors up. The reason I've split the scarabs into a squad of 6 and two squads of 3 is because we're playing ITC missions so kill points may be drawn. Going up to 4 scarabs doubles their PL.
For your list, you would have to explain the tactics of what each of your unit will be doing? Me personally, you have too many stalkers to accomplish what you are doing. I would drop one for sure and run a sypder to baby sit it along with a unit of scarabs as a meat shield to protect it. The stalker will be a priority for your opponent. You have no answer really for mutli heavy vehicles. sure the Darks can do D3 each but its not enough to take out multi vehicles and control the pace of the game. Getting a C'tan (deciever) will be a great idea and what i would suggest is getting your scarabs to hold up his lines long enough for you to get into position. this will make your Darks abit more valuable as far as thier long range but you will need something more to really put the hurt to your opponent. What else do you ahve access to as far as models goes??
2017/07/31 19:13:20
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Grimgold wrote: So after having spent some time thinking about Roboute Guilliman, I've come to accept we don't have a good solution for him. He causes the units around him to hit at a bit more than twice their normal ability, and since he is more or less invulnerable in his bubble of bodies, we have to fight him on his terms. Hitting his back lines is difficult because he can screen them with units that daisy chain into the aura. His weight of fire is so overwhelming that there is no way we can win a firefight, because he will just wipe units making RP a non-issue. Without RP we are about as tough as SMQ, so matched on toughness and overwhelmed on offense makes the outcome inevitable.
If we can't beat him in a fair fight, we'll have to beat him by other means. We can combine two tricks to give us a fighting chance. The first trick is the deceiver bomb, which will let us get in close enough to get an alpha strike in, if we can hurt him enough early enough we might be able to snowball that damage into a win. The second is Nemesor Zahndrekh, I misread his rule, and it turns out he is a hard counter for Roboute, if you can end your turn within 12" of Roboute you can shut down all of his auras for his next turn and your next turn.
The idea goes something like this, Using the deceiver get the nemesor as close as you can to Roboute, he'll need to finish his movement within 12" of Roboute so don't be afraid to advance. For the second/third tag along Bring a unit like immortals or destroyers, something that can hit hard from range (because he will still have his aura in CC on your turn). Then use Obyron to bring in a 10 man lychguard squad into range for a charge, bonus points if you can get a line on papa smurf since 10 lychguard should be able to mess him up, but we'll assume that our opponent is competent and properly screened him. If possible daisy chain a lychguard back to the nemesor because he just became the only target in your army.
He'll have two choices, book it, or go all in on the nemesor, no matter what happens though you've hurt him and stopped him from hurting you, and you have a fighting chance. Still working out how to pull this off if he wins deployment or seizes.
I feel the best way to deal with him, is to ignore him and kill everything he is buffing.
I know its not an answer on how to beat him, but at the end of the day he is brought mainly for his buffing capabilities. Sure he is a beatstick, but every nasty list that has him has him as a countercharge threat, not an offensive one.
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2017/07/31 19:55:51
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I feel the best way to deal with him, is to ignore him and kill everything he is buffing.
I know its not an answer on how to beat him, but at the end of the day he is brought mainly for his buffing capabilities. Sure he is a beatstick, but every nasty list that has him has him as a countercharge threat, not an offensive one.
We can't kill his units faster than they kills ours, RG double or triples the effectiveness of units in his aura, so we can't afford to ignore him. We are about as tough as SMQ with him killing entire units at a time, but with RGs units will be twice as shooty, if you don't have a plan for him you're doomed before the first dice roll.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/07/31 20:36:43
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
thisguyy wrote: Thanks for all the replies on Imotekh. I tried him and he just felt pretty lackluster. Felt he was far to expensive for only 3 shots a turn at 18".
I've got a tournament coming up this Saturday and I'm struggling to figure out how to finish this list. I've got access to pretty much everything except destroyers, what would you guys do? I'm thinking maybe dropping a couple warriors and adding a C'tan, or adding a Ghost Ark to help keep the warriors up. The reason I've split the scarabs into a squad of 6 and two squads of 3 is because we're playing ITC missions so kill points may be drawn. Going up to 4 scarabs doubles their PL.
For your list, you would have to explain the tactics of what each of your unit will be doing? Me personally, you have too many stalkers to accomplish what you are doing. I would drop one for sure and run a sypder to baby sit it along with a unit of scarabs as a meat shield to protect it. The stalker will be a priority for your opponent. You have no answer really for mutli heavy vehicles. sure the Darks can do D3 each but its not enough to take out multi vehicles and control the pace of the game. Getting a C'tan (deciever) will be a great idea and what i would suggest is getting your scarabs to hold up his lines long enough for you to get into position. this will make your Darks abit more valuable as far as thier long range but you will need something more to really put the hurt to your opponent. What else do you ahve access to as far as models goes??
Reason I'm running two stalkers is because generally it's the first thing focused down since it's my force multiplier. If I don't have enough D6 damage stuff I can run the second stalker with gauss as well but I though the particle shredder would be more versatile. The plan is for the Darks and Stalker to take out the biggest highest T threats first and screen them with warriors & scarabs. If they don't have much deep striking/melee running at me I'll just be sending my scarabs up the board to hold objectives and tie things up. Warriors will be walking up the middle & the immortals will hopefully be in cover with the Olord holding down an objective.
If the Darks don't move they're D6 damage at 72" range so I figure 2 of them plus the Stalker is a good starting firebase for removing vehicles. Unfortunately Necrons without FW and destroyers don't have many other options with dealing with vehicles. I like the idea of a Deceiver C'tan giving me lots of flexibility to change up deployment on the matchup. I just don't know what In my list I'd bring up with it.
I've got access to C'tans, wraiths, Ghost Ark, 8 flayed ones, night/doom scythe, Lych Guard, and all the heroes. No FW stuff :(.
2017/07/31 21:16:41
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
thisguyy wrote: Thanks for all the replies on Imotekh. I tried him and he just felt pretty lackluster. Felt he was far to expensive for only 3 shots a turn at 18".
I've got a tournament coming up this Saturday and I'm struggling to figure out how to finish this list. I've got access to pretty much everything except destroyers, what would you guys do? I'm thinking maybe dropping a couple warriors and adding a C'tan, or adding a Ghost Ark to help keep the warriors up. The reason I've split the scarabs into a squad of 6 and two squads of 3 is because we're playing ITC missions so kill points may be drawn. Going up to 4 scarabs doubles their PL.
For your list, you would have to explain the tactics of what each of your unit will be doing? Me personally, you have too many stalkers to accomplish what you are doing. I would drop one for sure and run a sypder to baby sit it along with a unit of scarabs as a meat shield to protect it. The stalker will be a priority for your opponent. You have no answer really for mutli heavy vehicles. sure the Darks can do D3 each but its not enough to take out multi vehicles and control the pace of the game. Getting a C'tan (deciever) will be a great idea and what i would suggest is getting your scarabs to hold up his lines long enough for you to get into position. this will make your Darks abit more valuable as far as thier long range but you will need something more to really put the hurt to your opponent. What else do you ahve access to as far as models goes??
Reason I'm running two stalkers is because generally it's the first thing focused down since it's my force multiplier. If I don't have enough D6 damage stuff I can run the second stalker with gauss as well but I though the particle shredder would be more versatile. The plan is for the Darks and Stalker to take out the biggest highest T threats first and screen them with warriors & scarabs. If they don't have much deep striking/melee running at me I'll just be sending my scarabs up the board to hold objectives and tie things up. Warriors will be walking up the middle & the immortals will hopefully be in cover with the Olord holding down an objective.
If the Darks don't move they're D6 damage at 72" range so I figure 2 of them plus the Stalker is a good starting firebase for removing vehicles. Unfortunately Necrons without FW and destroyers don't have many other options with dealing with vehicles. I like the idea of a Deceiver C'tan giving me lots of flexibility to change up deployment on the matchup. I just don't know what In my list I'd bring up with it.
I've got access to C'tans, wraiths, Ghost Ark, 8 flayed ones, night/doom scythe, Lych Guard, and all the heroes. No FW stuff :(.
Yeah, i can definitely understand the need for the two but i think by dropping one you can find the points needed to fit in that deciever. Doing that here is what i would do. Change your detachment from Battalion to spearhead and outrider. Drop the warrior blobs because they will not hold for long and cannot effectively make a push on the battlefield, sometime the best defense is an offense. Pick up the lynchgaurd get them to 10 man. bring nemesor and obyron. Get your 3 groups of scarabs at 6 man squads, see if you can fit in a couple of barges in there as well. So the idea will be to use the deceivers grand illusion to move nemesor as well as as many scarabs as you can. Dont get too close to the enemy but just enough to let them know you are going to threaten them with obyron and the lynch guard on your turn. With enough luck he wil dedicate some shooting to wipe out the scarabs as try and hurt nemesor then on your turn go to work and get the boys over there lay down some heavy fire with the stalker and Darks, get your barges advancing along with the deciever and start picking out his units. this way you are hitting him on 3 fronts forcing them to answer each threat.
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