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Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

I think so, yeah.
I don't see why one would say our troops are weak. We probably have the best infantry in the game in terms of base stats.

We have the best mid range guns on our infantry, T4 LD10 across the board and a special rule that prompted the creation of a thread on this forum that complained about how good it is.
Not to mention there are ways of making our infantry even better.
Sure, they lack options and customization, but they don't really need it .

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/27 20:33:24


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I think so, yeah.
I don't see why one would say our troops are weak. We probably have the best infantry in the game in terms of base stats.

We have the best mid range guns on our infantry, T4 LD10 across the board and a special rule that prompted the creation of a thread on this forum that complained about how good it is.
Not to mention there are ways of making our infantry even better.
Sure, they lack options and customization, but they don't really need it .


I'm not saying they're weak compared to other troops, it's just that any meaningful system for grading units has to be based on comparing a unit to other available choices, and warriors/immortals are just not in the same tier of usefulness as scarabs or doomsday arks. They are hardly bad, they are just not units we try and include in every lists.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Fair enough, that's a reasonable evaluation.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith





Those oddball etc team lists are the only ones i've seen that completely left out troops and even then it was only a few of those lists. Warriors and immortals are still pound for pound our best anti infantry shooting and near best durability per point.

I'm not sure we're even seeing any of the listed archetypes anymore. Where is the actual 'silver tide' list that runs like 100 warriors and 3 ghost arks? Why would anyone run a pure qs wall list when abarges can be so effectively replaced with immortals for anti horde tesla shots? Didn't everyone kind of stop using the deceiver bomb as an all-in plan after like the first 2 weeks because we pay way too much for it and a couple other armies do a way better version of turn 1 charges? Isn't destroyer wing kind of grossly overpriced and really weak to high damage attacks? Scarabs are our best unit for their job but it's not like they're as good as horrors or conscripts if we could take those, no one is really advocating a scarab farm list. If these lists are either not being run or mostly losing how are they viable?

It feels to me more like we're homogenizing down to some troops for anti infantry, some mix of vehicles for anti tank, and finally some scarabs to screen/grab objectives. That and obligatory HQ choices usually leaves only about 300 points of flex to double down on something or for some inoffensively 'okay' unit for personal flair like preatorians or a deceiver or tomb blades or whatever.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 22:06:26


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

High damage weapons just don't have enough shots to be used effectively against destroyers. Las cannons for instance:

2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6 = .37 and of those another third will require a second shot so it's about .24 destroyers killed per lascannon shot. to take out a 6 man destroyer squad it's 25 lascannon shots. That's a bit north of half again as much as common lists bring, and more than twice what the average cron player brings.

The best weapon against them is probably multi-wound high throughput weapons like battle cannons, but nobody is really taking those. Destroyers are really an underserved target profile, hard to hurt with small arms, and too numerous for heavy weapons at max unit size. This is more or less the same target profile praetorians have, and I've used both to great effect.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in no
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





 Grimgold wrote:
High damage weapons just don't have enough shots to be used effectively against destroyers. Las cannons for instance:

2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6 = .37 and of those another third will require a second shot so it's about .24 destroyers killed per lascannon shot. to take out a 6 man destroyer squad it's 25 lascannon shots. That's a bit north of half again as much as common lists bring, and more than twice what the average cron player brings.

The best weapon against them is probably multi-wound high throughput weapons like battle cannons, but nobody is really taking those. Destroyers are really an underserved target profile, hard to hurt with small arms, and too numerous for heavy weapons at max unit size. This is more or less the same target profile praetorians have, and I've used both to great effect.


Does that also account for D6 damage?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

torblind wrote:
 Grimgold wrote:
High damage weapons just don't have enough shots to be used effectively against destroyers. Las cannons for instance:

2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6 = .37 and of those another third will require a second shot so it's about .24 destroyers killed per lascannon shot. to take out a 6 man destroyer squad it's 25 lascannon shots. That's a bit north of half again as much as common lists bring, and more than twice what the average cron player brings.

The best weapon against them is probably multi-wound high throughput weapons like battle cannons, but nobody is really taking those. Destroyers are really an underserved target profile, hard to hurt with small arms, and too numerous for heavy weapons at max unit size. This is more or less the same target profile praetorians have, and I've used both to great effect.


Does that also account for D6 damage?


But of course, the first number assumes a kill every shot (eg; 3.5 damage per shot), the second number assumes a more reasonable stance that 1 in 3 hits will require a second shot. It's not a perfect model but it's within a lascannon shot or two of accurate.

even in a worst case scenario where every lascannon does enough damage to kill a destroyer it's still 16 ish lascannon shots to take out a 6 man destroyer squad. If you get them coming in in clumps you can use some wound allocation shenanigans to stretch out the number of shots is takes.

Extra credit, destroyers are more points efficient in terms of durability than warriors for bolters, less so for las cannons:

Bolters

2/3 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/6 = .16
125 bolter shots
1.92 points of damage per shot
240 points

2/3 * 1/3 * 1/3 = 2/27 = .07
257 bolter shots
378 points
1.4 points of damage per shot

las cannons

2/3 * 5/6 = .56
35 lascannon shots to kill
240 points
6.9 points per shot

2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2/3 = .24
25 las cannons to kill
378
15.12 points per shot

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/27 23:31:31


Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith





It isn't that destroyers can soak up x number of bs3+ lascannon shots it's that enemy armies have lascannons, and meltas, and krak missiles, and bright lances, and gauss annihilators, and anything else that does more than d3 damage. Single wound models stop the math after unsaved wounds and quantum shielding gets a ~42% chance to negate it. I'm not saying destroyers are bad just that they more fall into that personal flair category of 'okay' units, i'm pretty sure everyone agrees they need a price cut come codex if not sooner. A destroyer wing army is only like 5 units and a dlord, i just don't think that's super 'viable' as an archetype at current cost.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

I think biggest problem with destroyers is actually their damage output. Two str.5 shots is not enough to justify pretty much anything about their costs. They are anti-infantry with a very low RoF but have the multi-damage and AP of anti-tank. They are overkill for most common infantry any player will ever encounter (save perhaps primaris) and with str. 5 cannot hurt most any vehicle or high toughness model with any better chance than a normal gauss flayer. This means its a dud in my book until the gun is boosted and/or the cost goes way down.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 23:44:02


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

I don't want to oversell this, but destroyers are much more solid than people give them credit for, and destroyer cult style list are a very competitive.

1.) single target profile, by having a single target profile, the rule of bring the right weapon means that a lot of your opponent's weapons aren't going to be very good against them. For instance small arms require absurd numbers of shots to get a kill, and as shown above heavy weapons aren't all that great at it either.

2.) Offensively flexible, a mid strength heavy 2 weapon with a -3 ap works well against just about anything. wounds vehicles on 5s infantry on 3s and only allows t-shirt saves (6+) in all but the worst cases. 2 of them together do about as much damage as a lascannon to vehicles, and each one is about a heavy bolters worth of damage to infantry.

3.) Fast, at 10" movement with fly a destroyer cult is fast enough to kite most infantry, and can't be locked down in CC. Given how fast they are they can easily hop on an objective or concentrate in an area to burn down a priority target.

4.) Tough, at 3 wounds per model, toughness 5 and a 3+ save they are tough before repair protocols. With repair protocols and the ability to duck out of a fight thanks to their movement, they can require a lot of work to remove.

I think the real problem is one of sticker shock, people look at a unit of destroyers and think "wow that's as much as a monolith" without considering how much you are getting for that price.Yes they are expensive, but they are worth it.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

 Grimgold wrote:
I don't want to oversell this, but destroyers are much more solid than people give them credit for, and destroyer cult style list are a very competitive.

1.) single target profile, by having a single target profile, the rule of bring the right weapon means that a lot of your opponent's weapons aren't going to be very good against them. For instance small arms require absurd numbers of shots to get a kill, and as shown above heavy weapons aren't all that great at it either.

2.) Offensively flexible, a mid strength heavy 2 weapon with a -3 ap works well against just about anything. wounds vehicles on 5s infantry on 3s and only allows t-shirt saves (6+) in all but the worst cases. 2 of them together do about as much damage as a lascannon to vehicles, and each one is about a heavy bolters worth of damage to infantry.

3.) Fast, at 10" movement with fly a destroyer cult is fast enough to kite most infantry, and can't be locked down in CC. Given how fast they are they can easily hop on an objective or concentrate in an area to burn down a priority target.

4.) Tough, at 3 wounds per model, toughness 5 and a 3+ save they are tough before repair protocols. With repair protocols and the ability to duck out of a fight thanks to their movement, they can require a lot of work to remove.

I think the real problem is one of sticker shock, people look at a unit of destroyers and think "wow that's as much as a monolith" without considering how much you are getting for that price.Yes they are expensive, but they are worth it.


I think your points are well reasoned but number 2) is exactly the problem. They are a 63 point heavy bolter or a 126 point lascannon. That is not efficient.

01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001  
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi guys, I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this list?

Spoiler:

HQ
Cryptek

Overlord, warscythe, res orb

Troops
10x Immortals

20x Warriors

20x Warriors

Elites
Triarch Stalker, THGC

Fast Attack
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel

6x Scarabs

6x Scarabs

Heavy Support
Doomsday Ark

Doomsday Ark

Dedicated Transport
Ghost Ark



My primary opponent is Grey Knights, so I'm considering dropping something to get a few squads of Deathmarks to interrupt his Draigo bubbles that he deep strikes in - wait for two units to be deployed then bring in the Deathmarks to restrict where he can deploy around Draigo (Question: can I trigger multiple Hyperspace interceptions off a single enemy deep strike?). I'm also considering using deployment of my warriors into wheel and spoke formations to limit the damage that deep strikers can do (ie, have a core block of warriors with other warriors placed 2" away from the core, remove those as casualties to deny charges).

I think my biggest weakness is mobility, and getting to objectives.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/28 02:07:01


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

Yes and no, a las cannon by itself is 40 points, so I'm paying 86 points for a 6 wound carrier that moves 10" with fly, rerolls 1's to hit, doesn't take a hit penalty for moving, and can get back up after being killed. Aside from the reroll ones to hit (which is a flat 11% boost to damage), the rest of that doesn't really add to the bottom line, but instead adds opportunities to do damage, which are much harder to quantify.

You're right in that destroyers will never be the most efficient at a given task (aside from killing primaris marines or terminators), but they will also never be incapable of performing a tasks., they can hurt vehicles, and infantry often at long ranges. Their flexibility comes at a cost, but you are already paying an opportunity cost every time a units out of optimal range or uses a weapon that has a rotten RoI against a specific target profile. Still without a victory at a GT this is all theory, and much of it is hard to prove with math. So I'm entering a local GT that's in about a month with the below list:

Spoiler:

+++ Necron Outrider (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [99 PL, 1997pts] +++

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [99 PL, 1997pts] ++

+ HQ +

Destroyer Lord [8 PL, 150pts]: Phylactery, Warscythe

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer [12 PL, 230pts]: Power of the C'tan: Time's Arrow

Triarch Praetorians [16 PL, 350pts]: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian

+ Fast Attack +

(FW) Canoptek Tomb Sentinel [9 PL, 180pts]

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 52pts]: 4x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 52pts]: 4x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Destroyers [18 PL, 390pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon
. Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon

Destroyers [18 PL, 390pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon
. Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]


So I guess we'll see if outrider with a heavy focus on destroyers is a viable necron list.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in au
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Perth

Yea grim's got some good points all around.

I personally haven't played with many destroyers, they did good in the one game I played them but didn't take enough to get a good idea. If grim has played with them and rates them, I'm happy with bumping them up a few notches.

Scarabs are definitely A(+/-). TheY mulch razorwings, brimstones, and all hordes with bad saves (so long as the numbers aren't too big i.e 30 boys or 50 scripts). Fast, tonne of wounds, tonne of attacks. 5+ wound everything in the game.

Tomb blades I feel, are appropriately costed for what they do now. They were undercosted in 7th, maybe they could be argued to be slightly too expensive now, but not by much I feel. They are a near auto-include in my armies now. Effectively ap-3 to stuff in cover, meaning a Terminator in cover has a 4+ save, and 5 termies will explode when faced with that many rapid fire shots. They have two guns so each TB can split fire 50% of their shots at different targets. 9 of these w/ gauss blew 30 boys off the table in one round of shooting after Ld killed the last few, all while the boys were in cover! They're fast, durable, customisable, have RP. I feel A teir IMO. They are hard to buff yes, but they dont need buffing in any way. Very efficient on their own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
 Grimgold wrote:

+++ Necron Outrider (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [99 PL, 1997pts] +++

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [99 PL, 1997pts] ++

+ HQ +

Destroyer Lord [8 PL, 150pts]: Phylactery, Warscythe

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer [12 PL, 230pts]: Power of the C'tan: Time's Arrow

Triarch Praetorians [16 PL, 350pts]: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian

+ Fast Attack +

(FW) Canoptek Tomb Sentinel [9 PL, 180pts]

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 52pts]: 4x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 52pts]: 4x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Destroyers [18 PL, 390pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon
. Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon

Destroyers [18 PL, 390pts]
. 5x Destroyer: 5x Gauss Cannon
. Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 203pts]

So I guess we'll see if outrider with a heavy focus on destroyers is a viable necron list.
I'd try and bump up your scarab squads if you can Grim. I've found small screens die fast, due to protecting important units they get focused down really quick. High damage multi attack units shred them, and 1st turn DS charges are a thing now.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/28 03:39:37


12,000
 
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 Klowny wrote:
1st turn DS charges are a thing now.

It's for this reason I want to include a unit of Deathmarks off table for emergency charge disruption. Even if it's only 5, a hundred points is a small price to pay to keep your more valuable units from being surprise charged.
(though obviously it's better to take 10 to be more effective).

 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




 skoffs wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
1st turn DS charges are a thing now.

It's for this reason I want to include a unit of Deathmarks off table for emergency charge disruption. Even if it's only 5, a hundred points is a small price to pay to keep your more valuable units from being surprise charged.
(though obviously it's better to take 10 to be more effective).


How would this ever work? Opponents pop down 9.01 inchies away from what they want to charge and then your deathmarks come down and can not get in between those units to stop the charge as they too need to be more than 9 away as well. So how are they stoping the charge?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Pyrothem wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
1st turn DS charges are a thing now.

It's for this reason I want to include a unit of Deathmarks off table for emergency charge disruption. Even if it's only 5, a hundred points is a small price to pay to keep your more valuable units from being surprise charged.
(though obviously it's better to take 10 to be more effective).


How would this ever work? Opponents pop down 9.01 inchies away from what they want to charge and then your deathmarks come down and can not get in between those units to stop the charge as they too need to be more than 9 away as well. So how are they stoping the charge?

It's disruption, not fully stopping.

In Rapid Fire range, 5 Deathmarks already get a couple of wounds w/ a Mortal Wound on top. A full squad is 20 Bolter shots basically for attempting.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

I think slayer might be onto something, I don't know how broadly applicable it is, but with as cheap as deathmarks are might be worth a try. To add my own twist to it, Friendly units can be set up within an inch of each other, so you plop them down in such a way as they have to multicharge the deathmarks and the target unit. They then rapid fire as soon as they land, and get to shoot overwatch on the charge. On your turn you pull the targeted unit out of combat and leave the deathmarks in, now they have to finish off the deathmarks or pull back. So you hurt them on the charge and cock block them afterwards.

It should work well against units like the tygon prime, flayed ones, and warp talons. Probably not as useful against things like assault terminators since they will have good saves.

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in jp
Proud Triarch Praetorian





If 3 Scarabs are too easy to wipe out, and 9 Scarabs are overkill, what's the sweet spot?
(and how many units of that number would you want to be running in a list?)

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I like the idea of running deathmarks for disruption but the only thing i have to say in regards to how it will work against 1st turn chargers is that it wont stop those units who can actually make those charges. for instance Heldrakes, because units like this can fly they have the luxury of being able to choose who they will want to charge. the deathmarks will not be able to stop such units from hitting thier targets, So the question is how do we stop these types of units?

Scarabs i am liking the idea of running them in units of 6. thats 24 wounds @ 78 pts each. big enough to make a shield small enough to still be maneuverable.
   
Made in au
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Perth

Just had a game against admech w/ CCB, wraiths, D/lord w/ 5&1 Destroyers, 2x6 TB units w/ gauss, vanes and scopes, and some big guns in the back. TB did work, ignoring cover clears out infantry bunkered in terrain quicksmart. Made good RP roles, denied shooting to onagers and grabbed objectives all game. Soaked punishment, as did the Destroyers. I got seized on, lost my TA, DDA, 2 TB and 5 wraiths before the game started. Managed to end the game t5 up on points, otherwise would have probably been tabled t6. Imperial Knights are brutal!! Such a powerful unit. Destroyers did a lot of damage too, but I kinda prefer a WS on him over the SoL, the shooting doesn't make up for better attacks, considering the extra attack he gets. I used the FLY keyword to tie up his onagers up with my Destroyers, deny his shooting next phase and fell back and shot. Crawl isn't that tough, his a very good supporting unit but he is not hard to kill, especially compared to his old power level.

12,000
 
   
Made in no
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





Awesome, thanks for the update, love hearing about tomb blades performing well and getting their points back
   
Made in ie
Deranged Necron Destroyer





lost my TA, DDA, 2 TB and 5 wraiths before the game started.
How did the Ad mech player manage to do that much damage to that many units and models?

What would you change if you went against ad mech again beside the Scythe on your D lord?

I have a Youtube. Rage Against The Imperium. Here is the link if you are interested - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0WxDMsMyI7WcChiSfApB4Q

Necrons - Legion of The Silent King - [756-809 PL, 15038-16076pts]
Spoiler:

Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons)
HQ
Anrakyr the Traveller
Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe - 3
Cryptek
Selections: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light - 2
Cryptek
Selections: Chronometron, Staff of Light - 3
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Staff of Light
Illuminor Szeras
Imotekh the Stormlord
Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Orikan the Diviner
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Voidscythe
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Warscythe - 3
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light
Overlord
Selections: Hyperphase Sword, Resurrection Orb
Trazyn the Infinite
Vargard Obyron

Troops

Immortals
Selections: Gauss Blaster, 15x Immortal
Immortals
Selections: 15x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals
Necron Warriors
Selections: 100x Necron Warrior
Necron Warriors

Elites

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Canoptek Tomb Stalker
Deathmarks
Selections: 25x Deathmark
Flayed Ones
Selections: 20x Flayed One
Lychguard
Selections: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard
Lychguard
Selections: 6x Lychguard, Warscythe
Triarch Praetorians
Selections: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Heat Ray*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Particle Shredder*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon*

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
Selections: 63x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel
Canoptek Wraiths
Selections: 3x Canoptek Wraith
Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer
Selections: 3x Transdimensional Beamer
6x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
Selections: 6x Whip Coils
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Tomb Blades
Selections: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters - 9
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon - 3*
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
3x Heavy Destroyer
Monolith
Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
Selections: 2x Tesla Cannon
Transcendent C'tan

Flyer
Doom Scythe - 4*
Night Scythe - 4*


Dedicated Transport
Ghost Ark - 3*

Lord of War
Gauss Pylon
Obelisk

* - This unit is magnetized so can be either model e.g. Doomscythe or Nightscythe
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Odrankt wrote:
lost my TA, DDA, 2 TB and 5 wraiths before the game started.
How did the Ad mech player manage to do that much damage to that many units and models?

What would you change if you went against ad mech again beside the Scythe on your D lord?

My guess is Onagers. I use them and they're pretty brutal.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in se
Freaky Flayed One





The thing with Destroyers from a competetive tournament view is that their weapon fills a weird tier, a useless tier. What you want is to be able to kill T4 and T7 effectively and also have that capability to kill T8.

Gauss Cannons are not cost effective against these toughness tiers. Sure it's effective against T4 multiple wound models, but these can be counted on one hand in a competetive tournament.

Heavy destroyers on the other hand are in a very good place except that they are more vulnerable than a vehicle at the same point cost.
   
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Trustworthy Shas'vre




DFW area Texas - Rarely

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
lost my TA, DDA, 2 TB and 5 wraiths before the game started.
How did the Ad mech player manage to do that much damage to that many units and models?

What would you change if you went against ad mech again beside the Scythe on your D lord?

My guess is Onagers. I use them and they're pretty brutal.


Robots with phospur blasters will kill the wraiths easy, as they put out an astounding amount of shots and you will fail those saves eventually.

Bigger things killed by dunecrawlers - they are one of the best tanks in the entire game right now. 143 points buys you a T7 tank with 11 wounds and a 5++, the neutron laser is amazing doing d3 shots d6 damage with a minimum of 3 points. Parked together and next to their HQ they can re-roll misses, reroll saves of 1, and get repaired.

I love the models and the army, and would have started them a while ago, but already two players in my group have Ad mech.

oh, and then look at their troops....(K destroyers with grav).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/29 22:46:04


DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
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Deranged Necron Destroyer





 Cmdr_Sune wrote:
The thing with Destroyers from a competetive tournament view is that their weapon fills a weird tier, a useless tier. What you want is to be able to kill T4 and T7 effectively and also have that capability to kill T8.

Gauss Cannons are not cost effective against these toughness tiers. Sure it's effective against T4 multiple wound models, but these can be counted on one hand in a competetive tournament.

Heavy destroyers on the other hand are in a very good place except that they are more vulnerable than a vehicle at the same point cost.


I myself always compare 4 Destroyers to 1 Tesseract Ark. For around the same points you get a better gun with separate profiles, 2 Gauss Cannons (no point because the 2nd Assault D6 is the same as them and better) or 2 Tesla Cannons. Better thoughness, QS, Living Metal, Long range and Short range weaponary. Etc.

I guess I just love the Tesseract Ark and will rather take one then the Destroyers until my requirements that I posted early are met.

I have a Youtube. Rage Against The Imperium. Here is the link if you are interested - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0WxDMsMyI7WcChiSfApB4Q

Necrons - Legion of The Silent King - [756-809 PL, 15038-16076pts]
Spoiler:

Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons)
HQ
Anrakyr the Traveller
Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe - 3
Cryptek
Selections: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light - 2
Cryptek
Selections: Chronometron, Staff of Light - 3
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Staff of Light
Illuminor Szeras
Imotekh the Stormlord
Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Orikan the Diviner
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Voidscythe
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Warscythe - 3
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light
Overlord
Selections: Hyperphase Sword, Resurrection Orb
Trazyn the Infinite
Vargard Obyron

Troops

Immortals
Selections: Gauss Blaster, 15x Immortal
Immortals
Selections: 15x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals
Necron Warriors
Selections: 100x Necron Warrior
Necron Warriors

Elites

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Canoptek Tomb Stalker
Deathmarks
Selections: 25x Deathmark
Flayed Ones
Selections: 20x Flayed One
Lychguard
Selections: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard
Lychguard
Selections: 6x Lychguard, Warscythe
Triarch Praetorians
Selections: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Heat Ray*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Particle Shredder*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon*

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
Selections: 63x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel
Canoptek Wraiths
Selections: 3x Canoptek Wraith
Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer
Selections: 3x Transdimensional Beamer
6x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
Selections: 6x Whip Coils
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Tomb Blades
Selections: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters - 9
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon - 3*
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
3x Heavy Destroyer
Monolith
Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
Selections: 2x Tesla Cannon
Transcendent C'tan

Flyer
Doom Scythe - 4*
Night Scythe - 4*


Dedicated Transport
Ghost Ark - 3*

Lord of War
Gauss Pylon
Obelisk

* - This unit is magnetized so can be either model e.g. Doomscythe or Nightscythe
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

Tesseract ark doesn't come back, and I've killed knights with destroyers so their guns work plenty well. I'm happy to show you the math if you like. I've walked every army I've fought with the destroyer lists, except for guilliman and ultramarines. The new tactics and rules weren't so bad, it was definitely power creep, but dealable.

I hate Robby G so much, I've fought four knights and magnus and that still was more winnable than a million marines march with Robby G. It's discouraging that we don't have a good answer for him, hell I'd settle for a bad one. It's not like can stay out range of him and the smurf bubble since 24" is our main range. Can't beat him in assault, since he never misses, and almost never fails to wound. I thought about counter tactics with nemesor zahndrekh, but that only last until the start of your opponent's turn, which is a not effective since you need to turn off his auras on his turn otherwise you'll get boltered to death. Deathmarks would struggle to get past his 2+/3++, and he could take the night bringer without much issue.

So does anyone have any ideas on how to beat papa smurf?

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

In CC you can get lucky with the nightbringer.

For the most part Bobby G is very vulnerable to shooting. Warriors will down him in enough numbers. Multi wounds weapons like heavy gauss,you death Ray's DDA also really put the hurt on. In CC though not much in the game (not just a necron problem) can touch him. I don't try and just feed him units, retreat then shoot. Not ideal but also not much you can do against him.

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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Would anyone be able to recommend a 1000 point list that would best demonstrate how necrons play? Not sure if this is the correct place to ask but thought I'd give it a shot.
   
 
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