Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/08/10 12:36:36
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
If everything was 33% cheaper e.g. Scarabs went from 13pts to 9pts, Destroyers(without guns) went from 43pts to 30pts, Monolith went from 381pts to 250-281pts etc we would actually be quite a solid army as we could field a lot more models meaning we won't be as restricted and our combos like Zandrekh, Obyron+Lychguard, Deceiver won't cost as much to field meaning we can actually do said combo and still have points to put into more models.
Imo, rues wise we are solid and only a few things need re-wording but it's our pts cost that drastically need changing and GW knows this so hopefully we might get our codex soon so we don't feel as F'd over and actually have a chance in tournaments we play in because I'm going to Blood and Glory in November and as much as I want to bring my Necrons I feel like I will have to bring a different army if our issue are not sorted by then :(
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/10 12:38:23
Read the Chapter Approved sneak peak on the community site. It is supposed to hold players of Ork, Necron, Deldar ect. over for a while. It comes out in December so we are not seeing our Codex till 2018 some time.
The only up side that can possibly come from this is maybe will will got some model releases with it. Not holding my breath tho.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/10 13:48:30
2017/08/10 16:59:20
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
One thing that's needed is that Destroyer Lords don't provide such a measly benefit. How about Preferred Enemy for wounding, and Destroyers straight up get Shred again in the bubble instead? Then you'd have incentive to use him in the back or as support/counter charge, rather than being the beatstick only.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/08/10 21:16:44
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Odrankt wrote: If everything was 33% cheaper e.g. Scarabs went from 13pts to 9pts, Destroyers(without guns) went from 43pts to 30pts, Monolith went from 381pts to 250-281pts etc we would actually be quite a solid army as we could field a lot more models meaning we won't be as restricted and our combos like Zandrekh, Obyron+Lychguard, Deceiver won't cost as much to field meaning we can actually do said combo and still have points to put into more models.
Imo, rues wise we are solid and only a few things need re-wording but it's our pts cost that drastically need changing and GW knows this so hopefully we might get our codex soon so we don't feel as F'd over and actually have a chance in tournaments we play in because I'm going to Blood and Glory in November and as much as I want to bring my Necrons I feel like I will have to bring a different army if our issue are not sorted by then :(
What about the either-or nature of RP, wouldn't that still be a problem?
If you kill 19 warriors leaving one alive, RP is immensely valuable, bringing back 9-10 models with a cryptek around next turn. Kill that last model too, and RP is suddenly worthless. This makes balancing and scaling really hard, and it won't be about point reductions. (Don't get me wrong, its needed regardless)
2017/08/10 21:48:57
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Odrankt wrote: If everything was 33% cheaper e.g. Scarabs went from 13pts to 9pts, Destroyers(without guns) went from 43pts to 30pts, Monolith went from 381pts to 250-281pts etc we would actually be quite a solid army as we could field a lot more models meaning we won't be as restricted and our combos like Zandrekh, Obyron+Lychguard, Deceiver won't cost as much to field meaning we can actually do said combo and still have points to put into more models.
Imo, rues wise we are solid and only a few things need re-wording but it's our pts cost that drastically need changing and GW knows this so hopefully we might get our codex soon so we don't feel as F'd over and actually have a chance in tournaments we play in because I'm going to Blood and Glory in November and as much as I want to bring my Necrons I feel like I will have to bring a different army if our issue are not sorted by then :(
What about the either-or nature of RP, wouldn't that still be a problem?
If you kill 19 warriors leaving one alive, RP is immensely valuable, bringing back 9-10 models with a cryptek around next turn. Kill that last model too, and RP is suddenly worthless. This makes balancing and scaling really hard, and it won't be about point reductions. (Don't get me wrong, its needed regardless)
With a point reduction we could comfortably field a Monolith or 2 Night Scythe and have 4-6 of Warriors as well so we could field 2 units of warriors and as they get depleted we could keep deploying more warriors. I think GW intended for us to have our crons both on the field and off as it would be fluffy having a set amount of them at the beginning and as the war goes on more units start to apper from eternity gates.
RP does need a fix as well but I am unsure of how that will happen. Death Guard basically have our 7th edition RP with Rolling 5-6 to ignore wounds so be pointless having 2 armies d the exact same thing.
Maybe if GW let us "resurrect" our fallen units using CP? or if the whole unit is gone on a roll of 6+ you get to RP those models from that unit instead of a natural 5+? I miss the days of 4+re-rolling 1s tbh.
Lots to catch up on, like pyrothem said, Chapter approved more or less states that we won't have a codex by December, but we are getting enough in CA 2017 to help us limp along until we do. Examples included obsec for our troops, because otherwise we might not take them. We can also expect points changes, and rules changes, as well as some stratagems (because without stratagems we rightly don't care about CP). With any luck some of the requests we've made here and elsewhere will make it in. I'm not holding my breath though since the Nova Open in a three weeks will be using the rules, which implies they've already been completed. They could be use Nova open as a beta test, in which case we are in the maybe category, but I can't see a major tournament like Nova putting it's reputation on the line to do some footwork for GW.
As for Reece saying Necrons were borderline OP, I don't know, I think that's just hype. First I doubt he's had access to all of the codexes yet, even if we assume only 20 factions (which we know is wrong because marines alone could be almost half of that) and 2 codexes dropping a month, we are still middle of next year until the final codexes drop. So there is no way they had the anything near release ready rules done a year and a half before the shelf date. Maybe necrons are near the front of the queue, and Reece has had a chance to look at the near final product, but if they are devoting chunks of CA to us to help us limp along until a codex, I doubt that's the case.
Second Reece has some odd ideas about necrons, that might hint that he is used to a meta we are not familiar with, or it might just hint that he is not into Necrons enough to play them at the level he plays the other armies. No shame or offense intended, we all have armies that we find uninteresting (mine is Tau, one trick pony has only one trick) and just never bother looking more deeply into. If he has insights into a meta we don't it is a very different meta, were things like unsupported foot slogging by slow melee units can win games. All of the FLG Necron lists have been head scratchers, at least for me.
Finally if he thought something is was complete and utter gak, do you think his contract and NDA would allow him to come out and say it?
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/08/11 05:56:24
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Grimgold wrote: Lots to catch up on, like pyrothem said, Chapter approved more or less states that we won't have a codex by December, but we are getting enough in CA 2017 to help us limp along until we do. Examples included obsec for our troops, because otherwise we might not take them. We can also expect points changes, and rules changes, as well as some stratagems (because without stratagems we rightly don't care about CP). With any luck some of the requests we've made here and elsewhere will make it in. I'm not holding my breath though since the Nova Open in a three weeks will be using the rules, which implies they've already been completed. They could be use Nova open as a beta test, in which case we are in the maybe category, but I can't see a major tournament like Nova putting it's reputation on the line to do some footwork for GW.
As for Reece saying Necrons were borderline OP, I don't know, I think that's just hype. First I doubt he's had access to all of the codexes yet, even if we assume only 20 factions (which we know is wrong because marines alone could be almost half of that) and 2 codexes dropping a month, we are still middle of next year until the final codexes drop. So there is no way they had the anything near release ready rules done a year and a half before the shelf date. Maybe necrons are near the front of the queue, and Reece has had a chance to look at the near final product, but if they are devoting chunks of CA to us to help us limp along until a codex, I doubt that's the case.
Second Reece has some odd ideas about necrons, that might hint that he is used to a meta we are not familiar with, or it might just hint that he is not into Necrons enough to play them at the level he plays the other armies. No shame or offense intended, we all have armies that we find uninteresting (mine is Tau, one trick pony has only one trick) and just never bother looking more deeply into. If he has insights into a meta we don't it is a very different meta, were things like unsupported foot slogging by slow melee units can win games. All of the FLG Necron lists have been head scratchers, at least for me.
Finally if he thought something is was complete and utter gak, do you think his contract and NDA would allow him to come out and say it?
Reece has lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned. He's either being deliberately obtuse, he's a corporate sell out, or he's such a fanboy that he can't be honest about a faction he's not a fan of. Makes no difference to me which it is. Completely worthless
2017/08/11 06:26:13
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Reece has been a great popularizer of the hobby, and it's hard to overestimate the impact he has had on the competitive scene. With that said, I'm not taking list advice from him, because he is very cautious and measured when he speaks about such things. For instance he won't come straight out and say X is trash don't bother with it, and that lack of candor makes him a lot less helpful. I don't know if it's fair to say that he is a fanboy or a corporate sellout, I think it's just as possible that he is worried about the effect his negativity could have, as he has quite a following.
Whatever the reason I honestly have no idea how he does it, I would have slipped up and said something by this point, like calling people out for flyer spam, or questioning GWs plan for the campaign disaster we are in.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2017/08/11 06:46:58
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Their latest podcast he talked quite a bit about the length between the index release and the codex release, and he said in a round about way that the indexes were written WELL before the codexes, and that the fast release between index and these codexes was not indicative of the actual length of time between them being written. FLG has stated multiple times that everything will be a lot better once all the codexes are out, and that there is a lot of stuff that is only a problem due to the imbalance created in the indexes being released at the same time.
Holding out hope that we get a big ol' present in our codex. Until then I've really lost enthusiasm for Necrons :/
12,000
2017/08/11 08:12:28
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
So is GW holding back codexes just to maximize sales then? Having a space marine focus now, with new models and shiny codex, and then to move on to maximize impact on some other faction? (when I think about it - why wouldn't they). Just sucks to be last one out then, as we are.
2017/08/11 08:12:36
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I will always be a big Necron fanboy.
I have never been that interested in the tournament competitive scene, as I like to focus on nice fun games.
Besides the positive effect of being bottom tier, is that not everyone is playing crons, just because they are a powerful cheese army. I never liked those kind of 'powergamers' that just jump from OP to OP.
I liked being the only cron player around, like I was back in 3rd. everyone said they were not a very strong army, but I still managed to win most of my games. I never mind being the underdog.
This doesn't mean I don't want gw to give us a more balanced army with some point reductions and more toys to play around with. I'm most annoyed with the fact that the only unit we have where we can play a bit around with equipment and points are the TB. We'll just have to wait and see.
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2017/08/11 14:00:29
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Like I have said before a good game can be had at 1000 points. Nobody is building the most WAAC lists at 1000 points Becuase no tournament I know of runs points that low. So when you ask for a 1000point game you run into fluffier/not fine tuned list and a true back and forth game can be had.
Besides why do you want to play a higher point list? To pay for the laughable point sink distraction Monolith? Or piss poor flyers? Pay twice what other factions pay for a "ok" melee wing? Our dex is over costed and the higher the point game goes the more disadvantaged we are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/11 14:27:16
2017/08/11 14:56:08
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Pyrothem wrote: Like I have said before a good game can be had at 1000 points. Nobody is building the most WAAC lists at 1000 points Becuase no tournament I know of runs points that low. So when you ask for a 1000point game you run into fluffier/not fine tuned list and a true back and forth game can be had.
Besides why do you want to play a higher point list? To pay for the laughable point sink distraction Monolith? Or piss poor flyers? Pay twice what other factions pay for a "ok" melee wing? Our dex is over costed and the higher the point game goes the more disadvantaged we are.
What is the best we can field at 1000pts?
I usually only do local tournaments as it is mostly people I know that go to them bar a few people up and down the country.
I am going to my 1st "proper" event called Blood & Glory in the UK during 5-8th of November. Its 2000pts ITC/GW package so I am in the process of getting an army ready and playing against super cheesy lists so I can get some practice in and find a way to maybe beat all the 40k armies.
I just like seeing the best of what every army has and I like the challenge of beating those armies
I'd go for the 3x immortals list I think. Or switch the destroyers for some heavy destroyers. In the second list, since I wouldn't be sure the destroyers would have decent targets to shoot at.
The 1000 p list I made a while back had
OLvb, crypt, 30 gaussmortals, 4 Scarabs and 3 heavy destroyers.
It did pretty well vs a DS grey knights list with that special character and a stormraven.
Unfortunately I don't really have the time to play more :(
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2017/08/11 18:07:50
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I have kept the warriors in becuase after the tesla rips the troops off enough for me to shoot their warlord warriors are great. Almost all warlords have a 4++ so the warriors -1 ap is more cost effective to stack wounds on. So far it works for me, people see the masive amout of shots the Tasla pump out and leave my warriors alone enought for them to get into rapid fire and smoke or cripple characters.
2017/08/11 19:08:13
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Grimgold wrote: Lots to catch up on, like pyrothem said, Chapter approved more or less states that we won't have a codex by December, but we are getting enough in CA 2017 to help us limp along until we do. Examples included obsec for our troops, because otherwise we might not take them. We can also expect points changes, and rules changes, as well as some stratagems (because without stratagems we rightly don't care about CP). With any luck some of the requests we've made here and elsewhere will make it in. I'm not holding my breath though since the Nova Open in a three weeks will be using the rules, which implies they've already been completed. They could be use Nova open as a beta test, in which case we are in the maybe category, but I can't see a major tournament like Nova putting it's reputation on the line to do some footwork for GW.
As for Reece saying Necrons were borderline OP, I don't know, I think that's just hype. First I doubt he's had access to all of the codexes yet, even if we assume only 20 factions (which we know is wrong because marines alone could be almost half of that) and 2 codexes dropping a month, we are still middle of next year until the final codexes drop. So there is no way they had the anything near release ready rules done a year and a half before the shelf date. Maybe necrons are near the front of the queue, and Reece has had a chance to look at the near final product, but if they are devoting chunks of CA to us to help us limp along until a codex, I doubt that's the case.
Second Reece has some odd ideas about necrons, that might hint that he is used to a meta we are not familiar with, or it might just hint that he is not into Necrons enough to play them at the level he plays the other armies. No shame or offense intended, we all have armies that we find uninteresting (mine is Tau, one trick pony has only one trick) and just never bother looking more deeply into. If he has insights into a meta we don't it is a very different meta, were things like unsupported foot slogging by slow melee units can win games. All of the FLG Necron lists have been head scratchers, at least for me.
Finally if he thought something is was complete and utter gak, do you think his contract and NDA would allow him to come out and say it?
Reece has lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned. He's either being deliberately obtuse, he's a corporate sell out, or he's such a fanboy that he can't be honest about a faction he's not a fan of. Makes no difference to me which it is. Completely worthless
I think the FLG people play in a very different meta. Even though they're competitive players, they don't seem to use/test things like spam or mass Knight or whatever. They like balanced lists or thematic ones, and Necrons are fine there. But then you go to one of their own tournaments and there are 120 Brimstones on the table and it's not quite the same.
2017/08/11 19:34:58
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
By the way, was there any consensus on whether Triarch Praetorians were worth it?
I was wondering about using 2 squads of 10 (or maybe 4 squads of 5?), each escorted by a Destroyer Lord. Does this sound viable or just a waste of points?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2017/08/11 20:47:46
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
A few pages back, I wrote a battle report when I used a squad of 10 Praets to great effect vs a (weirdly enough) shooty BA list. I always loved the TP. Fluff wise and what they could do. And they are much more viable I think this edition than last.
They are definitely not a unit that has a place in every list, but with their powerblades (now with +1 A) or power staves they can be tailored better vs more lists than before. Against anything in powerarmor they are great.
They might not fair as well vs anything with a stormshield or too high invul save. And they probably can't kill enough of the horde not to get a LOT of attacks back to worry them, but other than that they should win most combats they charge in to. And fast enough so they should get the charge off most of the time.
Long story short: if you know what they can and cannot beat, they are worth it.
Edit: Oh and 2 of 10 are much better than 4 of 5. Scoring 10 wounds is doable for quite a few lists with the dakka they can put out. Even vs T5 3+.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/11 20:53:34
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2017/08/11 21:57:59
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
vipoid wrote: By the way, was there any consensus on whether Triarch Praetorians were worth it?
I was wondering about using 2 squads of 10 (or maybe 4 squads of 5?), each escorted by a Destroyer Lord. Does this sound viable or just a waste of points?
Praetorians are in the same weird place as Destroyers. They are optimal against T4 elite infantry and not much more. So if your army lacks that then they are a decent choice. Necrons however rarely lack that. Also units receive damage in both turns in CC and you can only RP in your own turn so thd most elite units should be avoided.
Praetorians with War Scythes would be awesome.
2017/08/12 04:56:13
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I'm always of the opinion that "Whatever Praetorians want to kill, Destroyers can probably do better".
Not sure if it's true or not, but it seems about right.
2017/08/12 06:01:22
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I've played them against orks.... not a good idea. I can envisage them being good against power armour, but again Destroyers are just as good. A good list against marines I would see having both Destroyers and praets. But against most other armies, leave them on the bench.
1 damage just doesn't have enough punch to do much work at all.
12,000
2017/08/12 08:44:13
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I don't think destroyers do stuff better than praets. Their D3 damage is waisted on most units.
1 destroyer is 63 p. You get 2 S5 Ap-3 D D3 hits mov 10 3 W. 3+
2 Praets is 70 p. You get 2 S5 Ap-3 D 1 shots mov 10 4 W 3+ AND 4 S5 ap-3 D1 melee.
The range is 24 vs 12/melee. But I still don't think they do the same job better.
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2017/08/12 10:38:12
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Means you have to take Imotekh/Anraykr, but they're good HQs anyway.
How do either of those keep up with Praetorians?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2017/08/12 11:14:21
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Means you have to take Imotekh/Anraykr, but they're good HQs anyway.
How do either of those keep up with Praetorians?
Just keep them within their MWBD range and Anrakyr +1 Attack. Move the Praetorians 8 inches, move Anrakyr/Imotekh their full 5 and your still able to get the above buffs.
Praetorians can move 10 inches but I usually move them less then that if there getting buffs by any HQ.
That seems a waste of the Praetorians' movement though.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
~4100
~1660
12,000 
