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2017/11/01 16:50:57
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
sieGermans wrote: For an upcoming tournament. Rules effectively prohibit Large Gauss Pylon (wound count is too high) and only allow one outrider/spearhead/vanguard in the list:
If it were me I would take out the Nightbringer. He is the only melee in the army and will be shot to peices before he gets into combat. I would replace him with a ton of scarabs to screen and slow down your foe. Keeping your back field clear of drops that could melt your heavy slots is easy with a yon of well placed scarabs.
2017/11/01 21:33:00
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Pyrothem wrote:If it were me I would take out the Nightbringer. He is the only melee in the army and will be shot to peices before he gets into combat. I would replace him with a ton of scarabs to screen and slow down your foe. Keeping your back field clear of drops that could melt your heavy slots is easy with a yon of well placed scarabs.
Good call. I’ll make that swap. Forgot about drop Melta plans.
ArtyomTrityak wrote:For my last 2 games i feel that Stalkers are doing better than DDA. I have 2 of them and thinking about 3rd one.
I may consider this for another event. At this time I only have the one stalker.
Pyrothem wrote: Having one model left sucks more than you think. You have to setup rezed models within 1 inch of that last model so only 5 or 6 max can use RP and if you are in melee you are really sad as they can not setup within 1 of an enemy as well...
You can get 12 bases w/in 1" no problem. Enemy models are obviously still an issue, but you;re not limited to 5-6 at all. If you had a squad of 20 that got tapped down to 1 you're looking at about 12 dudes on average on a 3+, so it seems alright until you start re-rolling with a Ghost Ark and then having nowhere to put dudes.
He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all.
2017/11/02 07:13:53
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Pyrothem wrote: Having one model left sucks more than you think. You have to setup rezed models within 1 inch of that last model so only 5 or 6 max can use RP and if you are in melee you are really sad as they can not setup within 1 of an enemy as well...
You can get 12 bases w/in 1" no problem. Enemy models are obviously still an issue, but you;re not limited to 5-6 at all. If you had a squad of 20 that got tapped down to 1 you're looking at about 12 dudes on average on a 3+, so it seems alright until you start re-rolling with a Ghost Ark and then having nowhere to put dudes.
3+?
2017/11/04 09:00:24
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
As a T'au player, I would like to ask you on your thoughts how to expand a starting Necron army. I was reading the last 10 pages of the board and the discussion was rather specific and too expertised for a beginner like me. So I apologize in case of redundancy.
So far I got the SC box, 1 x Warrior box, 2 x Immortal boxes and a box of lychguard / praetorians. So basically:
1 x Overlord
20 x Warriors
10 x Immortals
5 x Lychguard/Praets (unboxed)
1 x Stalker
+ a few scarabs
I would like to plan a well rounded army and I was thinking of adding a few vehicles. I am very confident about adding a cryptek. But regarding the other choices, the following questions came up:
- Would you recommend 1-2 DDA or rather 2 x AB's for expansion?
- Are Tesla Immortals (in general) preferable over Gauss ?
- Would you rather go with Lychguard or Praets for a well rounded core?
-Are there any other general advices for what to get from here?
Thanks guys, I really appreciate your input and you would really help a new Cron player out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/04 09:01:53
2017/11/04 10:32:26
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Where you are at, I'd get DDA before Annihilation Barges
Other:
Scarabs! 12-15 bases would be an ok start. (Unfortunately they are only sold as part of the warriors kit)
Lychguard or praetorians.. I'm not sure, they are both challenging to play their points worth. Im inclined to say Praetoirans because the lychguard are more often than not too slow.
I havent fielded tomb blades yet, but aparently they rock even if they are expensive.
For immortals tesla is great if you have "My Will Be Done" to give them (ie one or more overlords), which cause Tesla to trigger on 5+ which is absolutely awesome!
Gauss immortals have to get within 12" to be competitive, which is risky business.
Note - if "-1 to hit" becomes more common, the value of tesla immortals will diminish.
2017/11/04 15:24:03
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
If you want to be competitive you need FW Gauss Pylon. This is the only way to kill Big Guys (Magnus, Morty, Knight etc).
1. FW Gauss Pylon is awesome but some tournaments ban FW
2. Tesla Immortals are good
3. DDA - good but just 1d3 shots
4. Stalkers - good but can't fly so if get charged looses firepower
5. Scarabs - good but you easily give Kill points
6. Wraiths - good unless your opponent has smite spam
7. Heavy Destroyers - good but can be easily killed and very expensive
8. Warriors - average - they are very slow and very morale affected
9. Anni Barge - average - they have good speed but shooting is sucks, heavy 2 hits on 4+ + 8 tesla AP0
10. Flayed ones - average. Too expensive, need to get 9' charge after deep strike
11. Lychguard / Pretorians - bad - them come to fight and die next turn by shooting
12. Monolith - bad - does not worth its points because lacks Quantum Shielding
13. Flyers - bad. Can't score, bad to hit, average damage.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/11/04 15:43:58
2017/11/04 19:42:51
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Attending Blood&Glory 2017. 3 out of 5 games done.
Had a good day today. Won 2 games lost 1.
1st game agaisnt Eldar/Dark Eldar - Guy was not that experienced, helped him with his Stratagems and what not. Won by scoring 7 vs 6.
2nd game was Craftworld, took out my unit of Tomb Blades and Tesseract Ark turn 1 via 3 wave serpants and 10 units of 9 Rangers. Was a good game tbf, opponent was nice but match up was terrible.
3rd game was Vs NECRONS. His Sautekh Dynasty was going rouge so I had my Nihilikh teach him a lesson. He brought a Gauss Pylon but because all our Vehicles have Quantum Shielding it was a waste of points. It dropped turn 2 and I popped it turn 2 via focus fire from Triarch Stalker, 2 DDAs, Tesseract Ark and Deathmark.
Tomorrow I face Eldar again ( Literally WTF) hope it doesn't go like game 2...
Attending Blood&Glory 2017. 3 out of 5 games done.
Had a good day today. Won 2 games lost 1.
1st game agaisnt Eldar/Dark Eldar - Guy was not that experienced, helped him with his Stratagems and what not. Won by scoring 7 vs 6.
2nd game was Craftworld, took out my unit of Tomb Blades and Tesseract Ark turn 1 via 3 wave serpants and 10 units of 9 Rangers. Was a good game tbf, opponent was nice but match up was terrible.
3rd game was Vs NECRONS. His Sautekh Dynasty was going rouge so I had my Nihilikh teach him a lesson. He brought a Gauss Pylon but because all our Vehicles have Quantum Shielding it was a waste of points. It dropped turn 2 and I popped it turn 2 via focus fire from Triarch Stalker, 2 DDAs, Tesseract Ark and Deathmark.
Tomorrow I face Eldar again ( Literally WTF) hope it doesn't go like game 2...
Good luck!
2017/11/05 15:06:14
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I had tournament practice today, my list is sooo much fun to play.
I went up against GK, and let me say, 12 wraiths are hilariously tanky. He had full smite spam, albeit baby smite, but that combined with force weapons and thunder hammers meant he had a high proportion of things designed to kill wraiths, and they lasted the entire game!
They are super fast, super durable and look the business on the board. I lost on points, but had it ended a turn earlier I would have won.
Someone mentioned that you need the pylon to be competitive, I disagree. It is a massive points sink for D6 shots, and if they whiff.........
I am not running it, and sure if I go against the bash brothers etc then it wont be good for me, but even the pylon doesn't do well against that.
12,000
2017/11/05 16:18:17
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Being durable against GK smite spam shouldn't be a measure of durability.
No but i also faced 2 stormravens, a dreadknight, falchions, thunderhammers etc. The list had a plethora of multi damage weapons, this coupled with smite meant it was a hard counter to wraiths, and they still stood up to the punishment.
Ive ran 6 against 8 LRBC and the same thing again. They are a very durable unit.
Yep no Scarabs and no pylon, still goes really well! So we played Dawn of War so I didn’t really have a backfield, but even if I did, 12 wraiths, 9 Tomb blades and 10 Immortals can easily deny the same footprint as scarabs, as you don’t actually need a whole bunch. The deceivers redeploy is just too nice to give up, and now I have flexibility in my army to choose what goes where. For example I can get Tomb blades in RF range t1, or deploy Tesla Immortals and o/lord in cover midfield, or minimum 1 star up the board, and if I roll a 3 I get both c’tanstars in cover for a t2 charge
I also make the NightBringer my warlord and give him the 6+ fnp or 1+1 attack on the charge.
Also the double smite/times arrow is very nice to have.
Funny side note, in that battle one of the last units I had on the board was my DDA, and in one round of overwatch it killed a banner, draigo and a dreadknight! Such a beast!!!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/06 02:10:02
12,000
2017/11/06 10:45:38
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Relic mission against Astra Militarum.
He got:
Tank commander
Scions
Special weapon squad
Veterans
Hellhound
Rough riders
Basilisk
Heavy weapons squad with autocannons
Leman russ
Demolisher
Valkyrie flyer
I won.
Immortals with the help of Deathmarks grabbed the relic and ran.
DDA was a champ and destroyed 2 tanks. I had a lot of luck and it fired 3 shots every turn. When it does, it's amazing, -5 AP is gold! Let's see what the codex brings.
Tomb blades killed infantry units.
Destroyers took down flyer to 1 wound, finished of a tank and were heavily focused on. Res orb worked like a charm. MWBD on a Destroyer unit is really good.
Scarabs locked down Hellhound.
All my units were great. No real MVP. Had some lucky dice rolls.
Game 2:
Spoiler:
Against Dark Angels.
Mission was take and hold cards give an additional point.
His army:
Librarian with aversion and mindworm
Land raider
Land raider crusader
10 devastators
Darkshroud
Nephalim jetfighter
Ravenwing darktalon
Really frustrating list. I constantly had -1 to -3 to hit. Minus to hit shouldn't stack!
I locked down his landraiders with Scarabs and Destroyers.
Destroyers downed one flyer. Once again the Destroyers got focused on heavily but survived thanks to res orb.
Tomb blades took out Devastators.
Deathmarks acted as a distraction and deep struck into cover in the middle of his lines. They and Immortals took some impressive amounts of firepower.
DDA died on turn 1 as he got to start.
All units performed great.
Managed to score a draw thanks to locking up the Land raiders.
Game 3:
Spoiler:
Against Genestealer cult.
Patriarch
2 big units of Genestealers.
1 big unit of Aberants
Some other infantry.
Leman russ
2 sentinels
Some other stuff.
Mission was that at the end of the game 1 objective was worth 4p, 1 obj 1p and 4 obj 2p. Deployment was hammer and anvil.
I started and castled up everything in the middle of my deployment zone. Put som damage on his Russ.
When his cult ambush reinforcements came in he rolled really poorly.
Next turn my Immortals, Tomb blades and Deathmarks removed over half of his army. I felt bad for him.
I won.
Game 4:
Spoiler:
Against Raven guard with a couple of captains, plasma Stern guard in pod. hellblasters, missile launcher devastators, predator, assback, dreadnought and some scouts.
Mission was that objectives gave VP at the end of game.
Deployment was the one with the 12" circle in the middle.
His side was planed bowling ball and I was cocky.
His plasma and Devastators blasted me to pieces.
I had to fall back and play defensively on my side of the board where there were some lineblockers.
He played very good and I did many mistakes. This was a very bad matchup.
I lost.
Game 5:
Spoiler:
Against Deathguard with Predator, Land raider, their artillery tank, some traitor marines, some pox walkers, some demons and a flying demon prince.
Deathguard is really slow and I managed to kill the Land raider, lock up his other tanks and have board control.
I had to shoot at the demon prince for three turns with the Destroyers, one turn with Deathmarks, one turn with Immortals and one turn with the DDA before he died. It was horrible.
That and my horrible tactical cards cost me the victory and it was a draw.
How my units performed:
Spoiler:
When I write good, very good, etc. it's in reference to other Necron units. Many of these are not very good when comparing with units in other factions.
CCB - Good. Buffed the Destroyers, grabbed objectives, counter charges. Performed well and only died in one game. A bit expensive with res orb.
Immortals, tesla - Very good. Only gave them MWBD once.
Deathmarks - Good. Their damage output is pretty underwhelming, but they are good as a distraction. I usually dropped close to the opponent to draw some fire. In cover they are really hard to remove. They also did a lot of objective-conga.
Scarabs - Very good. The mostly screened from deep strikers, locked vehicles and congalined objectives.
Tomb blades, tesla - Very good. They smoked infantry and locked up tanks as champs. I haven't tried gauss on them, but the tesla gave them range and a lot of dice. 14" move is not that much. I can imagine that a unit of 9 is awesome.
Destroyers - Very good. They can survive a lot of punishment and worked well together with the CCB. I don't think they missed a shot with MWBD (unless they had minus to hit). Res orb is very good if you run these. Range is a bit lacking.
Doomsday Ark - Very good in this tournament. I had some really good dice rolls so the big gun shot three shots a lot. This makes a huge difference. It also flew around a bit and grabbed objectives and used its gauss flayers.
Best unit?
Immortals, Tomb blades and Destroyers where better than the rest, but they all did their part.
Would I change anything?
I might replace the Deathmarks with Wraiths.
Closing thoughts:
Spoiler:
So I won two games, had two draws and lost one. It was more than I expected so I'm very happy with that.
This army is designet for tables with lots of terrain. Some tables had a lot of terrain and some where lacking and that made a difference in those games.
I was suprised how well the army performed against high T targets with just the Destroyers and Doomsday Ark. Perhaps I rolled like a god?
The lack of range on Necron weapons really shows in some deployment types and if there are less terrain.
Fast units with "fly" is really good.
Many armies have problems with 3+ infantry in cover. Especially if the said infantry has RP.
5+ RP is very unreliable.
I only faced very nice players and the tournament arrangement was excellent!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/06 20:48:29
2017/11/07 19:53:44
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
It was the first time I used a large unit of Destroyers and they really surprised me. With the CCB giving MWBD they practically always hit and cripple a vehicle. The range did come to play especially on a table with low amount of terrain.
They where very hard to remove and when they were almost wiped out I used the res orb. 3 Heavy Destroyers die much easier.
As for the Tesla Tomb blades, they wiped out all kinds of infantry and even put some wounds on vehicles. Haven't tried them with gauss, but I think I prefer the range and hits of tesla over the ap of gauss.
Looking at the math gauss is only better at <12" and against targets with 3+ (25% better) and 2+ (50% better). This is a bit too situational and somewhat offset by nebuloscopes.
However, there are some armies that have -1 to hit and then tesla sucks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/08 08:12:59
2017/11/08 08:29:16
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Cmdr_Sune wrote: It was the first time I used a large unit of Destroyers and they really surprised me. With the CCB giving MWBD they practically always hit and cripple a vehicle. The range did come to play especially on a table with low amount of terrain.
They where very hard to remove and when they were almost wiped out I used the res orb. 3 Heavy Destroyers die much easier.
As for the Tesla Tomb blades, they wiped out all kinds of infantry and even put some wounds on vehicles. Haven't tried them with gauss, but I think I prefer the range and hits of tesla over the ap of gauss.
Looking at the math gauss is only better at <12" and against targets with 3+ (25% better) and 2+ (50% better). This is a bit too situational and somewhat offset by nebuloscopes.
However, there are some armies that have -1 to hit and then tesla sucks.
With Tesla:
With Gauss:
According to this there is a 33% increase on 3+ and 100% increase on 2+
Since they are the same strength, the wound probability is the same so the damage ratio between them is the same for all toughnesses.
(You could also punch the unit stats into dice-hammer.com to get the same results for all armor saves and toughnesses at the same time)
2017/11/08 10:41:31
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Rule of thumb is typically:
Tesla on Immortals (because they're slow so will probably stay further away).
Gauss on Tomb Blades (because they can quickly get up into rapid fire range).
2017/11/08 12:57:06
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Requizen wrote: It's a risk, but T5 3+ isn't anything to sneeze at unless you're rushing up to Berserkers or Genestealers.
That is true. 36 shots in overwatch shouldn't be taken lightly either (though they would probably be withered down in shooting if he meant to charge them also)
2017/11/08 17:19:40
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Am going to get some heavy support vehicles, which ones though? I have one Triarch Stalker but what else would be good? DDA or Tesseract Ark? Or just another Stalker?
12,000 
Necrons: 10'000+ 
T'au: 4000+ 
CSM: 2'000+ 
