Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spoiler:

An alternative / addition to your RP suggestion - allow Spyders to permit nearby wiped units to make reanimation rolls, like how they worked in 3rd ed.

Other suggestions - more geometric necron vehicles. The new vehicles don't really fit with the necron aesthetic, nor do they make much sense lore wise. Why would a race obssesed with self preservation make such flimsy vehicles, especially if they are meant to be on the battlefield? I would like to see more vehicles like the monolith; high armor, solid, no obvious weakpoints. Let these be the main combat vehicles of the necron, and the 5th ed ones be more like support / repurposed civilian combat vehicles, like how the ghost ark was just a hearse.

More teleportation options - like in 3rd ed.

CC destroyers - because a caste of machines dedicated to murder shouldn't be picky about getting in close

Pariahs - because that was a great concept and cool models. Lychguard and praets do not compare. At all.

A big canoptek unit that serves as an HQ. Something like a canoptek overseer / controller thing, that directs and buffs nearby canopteks

Where do you even post suggestions like that? Spam their facebook?

Your ideas are cool, but I want to avoid getting too much into wishlisting, my main intent with my previous post was to discuss the perceived issues with current necron rules and explore what message we want to give GW, let them sort out the actual rules.

As far as new models and art direction, I think that's a topic for another day, another thread.

If you want to contact GW there are 2 official channels that I know of: Facebook page and the rules FAQ email 40KFAQ@gwplc.com that they posted on the warhammer community page a while ago.

Skoff -

I dont know why but I laughed when reading that poster and imagining the incredible longshot that the old ones just said 'you know what feth this.' and chose now of all times to come back. xD

Oof, I hope the Old Ones don't return. That would kill all of the mystery about them and it reeks of hackneyed writing. Its as bad as the Primarchs coming back and walking among humans again, which before was just something in If The Emperor Had a Text To Speech device. A parody.

I swear GW must be taking ideas from that series. Too many things are getting similar. Even the Custodes are becoming more active, like in the series.

Now, an Old One superweapon / construct? Yeah, sure. The Blackstone fortresses were implied to be Old One weapons, so there is some sort of precedence for it.
But actual Old Ones? No. Unless Forge World ever decides to cover the War in Heaven. In that case yes.

Lothmar wrote:
Skoff -

I dont know why but I laughed when reading that poster and imagining the incredible longshot that the old ones just said 'you know what feth this.' and chose now of all times to come back. xD

I was also, deep down, hoping for that to be the Old ones. It could have brought a kind of ressurrection to the Necron faction as well. Just imagine the Old Ones release alongside the Silent King's return.

Alas, I like the Custodes release. But a bit of my soul was lost when I read the actual release.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Played against Death guard yesterday.

He had a Leviathan Dread with quad something powerful...

Failed to injure it much Turn 1 (my mistake, playing the Patrol mission and I should have held my Tesseract ark in reserves) and that thing proceeded to wipe a unit a turn with the deathguard stratagem to shoot twice with a dread.

We seriously need some rework of the RP rule or some cheap stratagems to get our investment back into it.

CS: It's like you have something against booping the snoot...
https://youtu.be/MQaDq01M-O4

Lothmar wrote:
CS: It's like you have something against booping the snoot...
https://youtu.be/MQaDq01M-O4

I love that episode. The parody of Vulcan has to be the best thing to have come out of the fandom.
However, I generally prefer to keep my parodies separate from the source material, especially when it comes to 40k, which also started as a parody of 80s pop culture, sci-fi and the dark moments of human history.

If a parody takes inspiration of a parody of itself, what are we left with? I don't know, but I don't like it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If a parody takes inspiration of a parody of itself, what are we left with? I don't know, but I don't like it.

Memes.

arhurt wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If a parody takes inspiration of a parody of itself, what are we left with? I don't know, but I don't like it.

Memes.

Thanks for the chuckle.

Warriors don't have much variety and that seems to bother people, what could they possible have though? A tesla gun? Some grenades? Personally I think they should just be tougher, maybe T5 instead of T4. Or maybe a 3+ save. Something that will prevent them from getting wiped out in one turn.

epaemil wrote:
Warriors don't have much variety and that seems to bother people, what could they possible have though? A tesla gun? Some grenades? Personally I think they should just be tougher, maybe T5 instead of T4. Or maybe a 3+ save. Something that will prevent them from getting wiped out in one turn.

That's the point though. Warriors are supposed to be cannon fodder, the lowest caste of necron. They are basically mass produced drones, at least from a necron perspective. Having no weapon options is intended and should remain as such.
Though in 3rd ed they were given the option to take disruption fields, which was basically a close combat version of gauss. Not quite the same as personalizing their loadout like marines.
Its funny you mentioned a 3+ save, because they had that in 3rd ed. Immortals were a T5 elite choice too.

I think infantry being able to take some kind of Teleportation beacons would be interesting. Basically a piece of wargear that lets the unit RP back models that failed their morale. (would really help big mobs of warriors/flayed ones) I mean all our units are hooked up to an AI system with partitioning command protocols etc if I remember right. So morale failures always rung as a 'system error' and the AI beaming the unit back for maintenance.

Or maybe make its a piece the leadership takes and thus it becomes an aura ability. (finally a use for Lords?)

Also If the units wiped out entirely you can spend a command point and do the RP but they have to be placed around the leadership (so yes you are still limited to maybe 6-8 models or so? But hey better then being completely gone.) or within 'X' inches where the last model died, stand it up first and then begin rp'ing around it (and if several models fled due to failed morale you can bring them back first before RP'ing around those).

----

But yeah Warriors with tesla and mwbd would be insane... *shudders* So best not to dream that big.

Honestly I wouldn't mind something like giving them a particle weapon + a decent melee weapon. ie - same strenght and no shooting AP but better melee butchery. (+1 str, -1 ap)

Or maybe the ability to make them a phalanx with slightly weaker dispersion shields and a pistol (swat style) or staff of light lite. Alternatively simple sword and board like hyperphase wouldn't be bad albeit lack of range support.

---

CS-

I had almost forgotten about disruption fields... Wasn't there also like a lightning field thing Stormlord could do? Or am I misremembering?

Lothmar wrote:
I think infantry being able to take some kind of Teleportation beacons would be interesting. Basically a piece of wargear that lets the unit RP back models that failed their morale. (would really help big mobs of warriors/flayed ones) I mean all our units are hooked up to an AI system with partitioning command protocols etc if I remember right. So morale failures always rung as a 'system error' and the AI beaming the unit back for maintenance.

Or maybe make its a piece the leadership takes and thus it becomes an aura ability. (finally a use for Lords?)

Also If the units wiped out entirely you can spend a command point and do the RP but they have to be placed around the leadership (so yes you are still limited to maybe 6-8 models or so? But hey better then being completely gone.) or within 'X' inches where the last model died, stand it up first and then begin rp'ing around it (and if several models fled due to failed morale you can bring them back first before RP'ing around those).

----

But yeah Warriors with tesla and mwbd would be insane... *shudders* So best not to dream that big.

Honestly I wouldn't mind something like giving them a particle weapon + a decent melee weapon. ie - same strenght and no shooting AP but better melee butchery. (+1 str, -1 ap)

Or maybe the ability to make them a phalanx with slightly weaker dispersion shields and a pistol (swat style) or staff of light lite. Alternatively simple sword and board like hyperphase wouldn't be bad albeit lack of range support.

---

CS-

I had almost forgotten about disruption fields... Wasn't there also like a lightning field thing Stormlord could do? Or am I misremembering?

Well, Imotekh wasn't around in 3rd ed, so no
Never used Imotekh, so other than his lightning artillery strike I don't really know, other than he popped up in 5th ed.

What might be interesting is to allow crypteks and lords to join warrior squads, or even have another type of model entirely. This "minder" model's deal could be that his job is to make sure the warriors are working as intended, because they are basically mass produced expendable garbage, at least to overlords, and he could be the source of most of the cool upgrades. Like grenades and stuff.

Also, maybe ripping off the scourge from Dropzone and allowing warriors to combine their shots into stronger ones might be interesting.
Iirc, the scourge warriors in Dropzone could pool together their hits (3 hits at a time) to make a stronger hit. So it can go from something like E4 to E10. Something like that, I forgot the details. The idea was is that so many plasma rounds are hitting the target that it just eats through the target's armor.
You can apply a similar concept to warriors - so much gauss is being poured into the target that it just melts them.

For those who don't visit News & Rumours:

 Ghaz wrote:
For those who don't visit News & Rumours:

Spoiler:

Well, if its slated for a march release they probably already have all of new models in storage. So I really hope they have better vehicle designs that are less space Egyptian boats and more space Egyptian masonry.

I'd be very surprised if Necrons got new models - so far very few factions have had anything new in the codex releases; even some almost certain plastic versions (eg biovore/pyrovore plastics for tyranids) haven't appeared.

Necrons could do with more of hteir lords in plastic, but otherwise I can't see a burning need for updated models for most of the range. A new warrior set without glowrods (fitting the transport); a new monolith (old model) but honestly there isn't really anything "screaming" for a new model.

New stuff would be neat, but I don't expect to see it

Yeah if this is semi-accurate, I'd expect just a Codex considering they list it at the end of March and have releases in April. Maybe one new character, but we have a pretty Plastic line so nothing really to replace other than Named characters.

 Overread wrote:
I'd be very surprised if Necrons got new models - so far very few factions have had anything new in the codex releases; even some almost certain plastic versions (eg biovore/pyrovore plastics for tyranids) haven't appeared.

Necrons could do with more of hteir lords in plastic, but otherwise I can't see a burning need for updated models for most of the range. A new warrior set without glowrods (fitting the transport); a new monolith (old model) but honestly there isn't really anything "screaming" for a new model.

New stuff would be neat, but I don't expect to see it

The failcast flayed ones need to be replaced, nothing like dropping almost 150$ on a twenty man unit for a bunch of mono-pose models that look like crap. Another area I feel like we are lacking in is non-forgeworld dreadnought equivalents, Spyders used to do that but they went a different way this edition. I suppose if you squint hard enough at the statline you could mistake a CCB/AB for a dread, but it's not a good comparison. So a plastic tomb sentinel/stalker seems like a low effort way to toss us a bone.

Do other codexes have models for all the entries in them?

5th edition crypteks would be my go to solution for a large part of our issues, but I see little hope of them returning.

torblind wrote:
Do other codexes have models for all the entries in them?

GW is cleaning house this edition, anything that hasn't got a model doesn't get rules in the new edition codex. This is basically a two fold approach

1) It makes the game easier for new people to get into; whatever is in the codex they can buy without any issues.

2) It helps stop the 3rd party casters making alternative models before GW can release them. A unique issue for GW in the miniatures market since there are multiple serious companies that make alternative sculpts for GW models.



There is the index for any models that are not currently in production, but which were in the past. So you can use the index for anything that you own that isn't now produced; this is to appease current fans. Of course one expects that most tournament and standard play will gravitate toward codex only with index being treated as an expansion to the core game.

torblind wrote:
Do other codexes have models for all the entries in them?

GW's been inconsistent on this issue; in the same breath that they remove all of the daemon-mounted characters from CSM they released rules and a conversion guide for a Grandmaster Nemesis Dreadknight.

 Ghaz wrote:
For those who don't visit News & Rumours:

Spoiler:

Didn't Games Workshop announce the next 2 codices after Daemons would be Custodes and Thousand Sons though? Where are they?

He mentions Custodes and then the next window is "unknown" which could account for 1ksons

I had my first game of necrons today after buying a friends army. It got cut a bit short, but I think I was in a decent position to win.
I had an Overlord, Lord, and Destroyer Lord all with void scythes
A full unit of Warriors
2 6 man Immortal (Gauss) squads
2 Tesla Anni barges
2 5 man Praetorian squads (one of each loadout)
A trancendant C'Tan
A Stalker with Heavy Gauss instead of the heat ray
5 sword and shield lychguard

The Annihilation Barge is a ton of fun, each one was evaporating a lightly armored unit a turn, though did rather poorly against anything with heavy armor.
In the one turn I was able to use the triarch Stalker it did pretty well, but it got killed immediately, so all it really did was soak a turn of fire.
Lychguard with shields are absolute tanks and I love them
Praetorians are pretty fun, I think I like the rods more than the other loadout. Having them run around with a destroyer lord is cool. Plus having something that isn't absurdly slow is great
Veil of Darknessing a max unit of warriors around is hilarious

For other units I have 2 units of tomb blades, a monolith, a couple of the named dudes, one of the flyers, one of each arc, another trancendant C'tan, a spyder, and some scarabs.

I think I'm gonna get a couple start collecting boxes for more warriors and stalkers to supplement this.

What do you guys think of Praetorians?

Who did you play against?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:

torblind wrote:
Do other codexes have models for all the entries in them?

GW is cleaning house this edition, anything that hasn't got a model doesn't get rules in the new edition codex. This is basically a two fold approach

1) It makes the game easier for new people to get into; whatever is in the codex they can buy without any issues.

2) It helps stop the 3rd party casters making alternative models before GW can release them. A unique issue for GW in the miniatures market since there are multiple serious companies that make alternative sculpts for GW models.



There is the index for any models that are not currently in production, but which were in the past. So you can use the index for anything that you own that isn't now produced; this is to appease current fans. Of course one expects that most tournament and standard play will gravitate toward codex only with index being treated as an expansion to the core game.

But FW index is a different matter? I'm thinking about the 2 new named characters and if we should expect to see models for them

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
I think I'm gonna get a couple start collecting boxes for more warriors and stalkers to supplement this.

What do you guys think of Praetorians?

I would caution against Warriors. They're kind of mediocre (at the moment). But I guess if you're after more Stalkers, sure, that's not a bad way to get both.

Praetorians are pretty good, just slightly over priced.

Also, you might want to try proxying those Transcendent C'tan as Nightbringer and/or Deceiver. The generic one is one of the lest effective units Necrons have currently (the others being the Monolith and Spyder).

You might want to try running those Tomb Blades as a unit of 5-6 with Gauss and Shields. Pretty good (but, again, over priced).

Hopefully the codex fixes a lot of the units you got so they'll be more worth taking.

Had a 750pt game vs mechanicus. While they did destroy me utterly, as you'd expect, I really enjoy tesla weapons. Used a unit of 10 Immortals with tesla carbines, backed up by a lord and an annihilation barge all with tesla. The amount of dice I was rolling was really satisfying, procking extra shots and such. Also, Cryptek and a unit of 20 warriors just did not die, sitting on the priority objective and jus kept getting back up and ended up winning me the game alone.

Overal, I can see they're weak, lots of overcosted stuff and a seemingly lack of damage, but the way they play is really fun, and I haven't even used praetorians or tomb blades yet (seem quite fun)

Ok guys, could use your insight. My second campaign game coming up will be the Rescue mission against Death Guard/Nurgle Demons at 2k points. Since I lost the first match he will have double the amount of sentries for free.

For those unfamiliar with the mission. There are six objective markers on the field and I need to check each for my spy. On a 6+ I find the spy, or if it's the last objective. My opponent only sets up some sentries (gonna be 20 nurglings) that move randomly and can sound the alarm if I get too close and don't kill it. The alarm also sounds when I find my spy.

After the alarm sounds I place my spy near the objective I found him and finish my turn. Starting from my opponent next turn his army can come from reserves. His objective is to kill the spy and I win if the spy survives.

The spy can be an infantry model with no more than 4 wounds.

Now my options for spy are: The spy can be a Triarch praetorian (he gains character targeting rules) so I can fly him wherever I want. Either that or a cryptek for extra wounds.

My planned list is as follows:


The plan is to Grand Illusion the Deceiver and a unit of Sword Lychguard with a Veil of Darkness Cryptek. If I get 3 units, throw in the Warriors too. That will hopefully allow me to play a trick: Play on two fronts, searching for the character first on my opponent's edge of the board. If I locate him, I let my opponent deploy around him and try to bring him down. With the Lychguard ability to resist damage and soak wounds away from the character, I think I can survive one turn. The next turn, I veil the character away from danger and his whole army is on the other side of the table. I castle around him a corner surrounded by Lychguard and never let go of my position, game ends and I win.

Grand Illusion is the only way I could think of that allows me to potentially check 6 objective markers with 5'' base move. I also need bodies to hide the spy under, so using a ton of vehicles (that are easily spotted by sentries anyway) would be sub-optimal as I need to make multi-charges to kill out the sentries.

I'm not bringing in any scarab bubblewrap because there will not be that many smiters to begin with, and if it takes me 1 or 2 turns to find the spy and I manage to go undetected by sentries, the alarm sounds and my opponent gets his first volleys out turn 3 at best.

What do you guys think? The game is still a month away as I need to paint 10x Lychguard and my Kutlakh conversion for it.

The alternative that I could think of would be taking a bunch of throwaway squads of flayed ones but that's 105 per 5 man squad so... Actually deathmark squads are cheaper and ranged~ so 100 per 5 man and can still do normal alpha strike etc.

However using the deathmarks counter deploying rules for this scenario might not be too horrible. Deploy right after he deploys his first group and stretch out a max squad of 20 deathmarks in a line to make a deployment fence that he has to deploy 9-12 inches back from ; since you get to deploy them after stuff deploys and then shoot before him this allows you to weaken his position and form up your guys to inhibit him from just running in and locking your spy down so he can escape (is that the premise of the mission?). Though if you've got the veil you can just tp out so you just have to worry about getting wiped in one go.

Maybe even snipe some leadership if you get lucky. Plus if you daisy chain your guys well enough or your other guys are in the right position they can have the cryptek invul and +1 RP making that fence a little more durable until you can GTFO with your veil.

This would be easily done as 2x vanguard detachments (3x squads of 5 plus 1 leader, 2 squads of 5 - 1 squad of 20 plus 1 leader, Remaining formations) and then others as you can manage or just fill out those to VD's.

Lothmar wrote:
The alternative that I could think of would be taking a bunch of throwaway squads of flayed ones but that's 105 per 5 man squad so... Actually deathmark squads are cheaper and ranged~ so 100 per 5 man and can still do normal alpha strike etc.

Yeah I'm not worried about finding the Spy too quickly, as he has to survive until the end of the mission. Best case scenario (unlikely) is for me to find him turn 5 and not have sounded the alarm until then, because then I only have to survive one turn. If I had no access to Grand Illusion I'd be worried, since I deploy on one of the short table edges and the objectives will be scattered across the length of the table. I don't own any Falyed Ones yet so I couldn't use this strat anyway.

Lothmar wrote:
However using the deathmarks counter deploying rules for this scenario might not be too horrible. Deploy right after he deploys his first group and stretch out a max squad of 20 deathmarks in a line to make a deployment fence that he has to deploy 9-12 inches back from ; since you get to deploy them after stuff deploys and then shoot before him this allows you to weaken his position and form up your guys to inhibit him from just running in and locking your spy down so he can escape (is that the premise of the mission?).

Maybe even snipe some leadership if you get lucky. Plus if you daisy chain your guys well enough or your other guys are in the right position they can have the cryptek invul and +1 RP making that fence a little more durable until you can GTFO with your veil.

Deathmarks are a good unit to use indeed. I might drop the Nightbringer in favor of it. My main concern is that I know he'll be taking Demon Princes and I feel like sacrificing a C'tan charge to deal with one is a realiable way to divert some attention.

My main trick so far is using Veil to move the character across the table. If he bites the bait I basically won, but even if he sees it coming that means he will have to divide his forces and I can make a getaway with the character. The worst scenario I can think off is that I bring only 1 unit with the GI, find the character Turn 1 and am forced to make the getaway T2.