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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Turns out I was right. The verbose and space-consuming AoS-style profiles just eat into available page space, leaving no room to include a proper bestiary, just a few extra things if you own them (and Wrathmongers of all things? Can't just put regular Chaos Warriors in?).

I'm expecting a separate Bestiary Book and App thing to be honest.

Is the Tzeetch stuff identical to the silver tower stuff?

Presumably the stuff from there and the white dwarf would be useable too?

I don't remember if Silver Tower had the main Tzaangor stuff, like Skyfires?

I think it's just the Daemons?

Skyfires and Shamans were given rules in one of the WDs. I think it was last month.

Got my copy, did a (fairly long) review: https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2017/02/22/review-warhammer-quest-shadows-over-hammerhal/

Short version... Awesome, frankly. If you liked either the original WQ or Silver Tower, this is the game you have been waiting for...

MongooseMatt wrote:
Got my copy, did a (fairly long) review: https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2017/02/22/review-warhammer-quest-shadows-over-hammerhal/

Short version... Awesome, frankly. If you liked either the original WQ or Silver Tower, this is the game you have been waiting for...

As an owner of HeroQuest and it's expansions, 1995 Warhammer Quest, and Silver Tower I can say that this appears to be what I had hope Silver Tower was going to be. Very happy I ordered this.

The practically naked Bloodreaver is vigour 4, but the full armored Blood Warrior is only vigour 5?

MongooseMatt wrote:
Got my copy, did a (fairly long) review: https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2017/02/22/review-warhammer-quest-shadows-over-hammerhal/

Short version... Awesome, frankly. If you liked either the original WQ or Silver Tower, this is the game you have been waiting for...

That just sold me Matt. Ordering mine.

I swear I should get commission.

MongooseMatt wrote:
Got my copy, did a (fairly long) review: https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2017/02/22/review-warhammer-quest-shadows-over-hammerhal/

Short version... Awesome, frankly. If you liked either the original WQ or Silver Tower, this is the game you have been waiting for...

Sounds great but has convinced me not to buy, as don't think from the sounds of it it could be co-op with no GM.

Don't get me wrong it looks great apart from lack of enemies, but I would only play this with my wife in a co-op versus a.I/ game.

Am I wrong in this?

Still quite conflicted on this. I'll probably get it in the end.

Wish it was pure co-op. Then again if I'm playing with the kids I'm already pseudo- GM'ing anyways, so it isn't a huge stretch.

The monster choices are interesting. Why are there profiles for WrathMongers but not Skull Reapers? Odd.
Does make me wish that we see a bestiary book or set of cards to expand our adversaries even more.

I do like the fact that the encounters can be filled with just one box/ unit of said adversaries. I may end up getting some Plaguebearers now, just because.
That paint job they gave it certainly had no bearing on me, no siree.

Yeah, the breadth mentioned is nice, but if I really want to GM my own new content, I'll play an RPG.

The levels look nicely fleshed out, but "you can make complex levels, too!" isn't that much of a selling point to me. Don't have the energy to put that much thought into my light-weight game. This is what my group's been playing when everyone wants to play something but doesn't want to commit to a serious experience.

MongooseMatt wrote:
I swear I should get commission.

Agreed! Hopefully our eternal gratitude will be enough for now, though.

Really love the idea of sharing ideas and map designs to expand the adventure.

This is a must buy alright, there's so much great stuff and the potential for more in the future is really enticing!

The review definitely convinced me not to get it. Clearly you can't get around needing a GM, so this isn't at all what I want in a Warhammer Quest.

Albino Squirrel wrote:
The review definitely convinced me not to get it. Clearly you can't get around needing a GM, so this isn't at all what I want in a Warhammer Quest.

That's what I thought, shame really , as does look good but i want pure co-op , if they could update via white dwarf so no gm needed I would change my mind.
My other issue is I own all but 3 of the models, so no real incentive, not that I am blaming gw for model choice just bad luck on my part

Thanks Matt!

Please post your review on BGG. I linked it on a thread, but you should get the full credit.

eBay occasionally has flash sales, and you can setup Slickdeals.com alerts to them. I've used eBay to buy miniatures games, and, unlike the OLGS, sellers do post pics and descriptions of what GW products they're selling.

Great review, Matt. It moved me from "No thanks" to on the fence. I like the RP focus with a lightweight GM but I wish it had different models.

 Clanan wrote:
Great review, Matt. It moved me from "No thanks" to on the fence. I like the RP focus with a lightweight GM but I wish it had different models.

There is most certainly more to the 'monsters'.

One of the Gamemaster’s chief jobs is to control the adversaries during the game. This is done with a behaviour chart, as with Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower, but for narrative or malicious reasons (depending on temperament) the Gamemaster can choose to override the chart if they feel inclined. They also have the ability to use models to call for reinforcements and are responsible for placing these new adversaries when they appear. They also get their pick of exotic adversaries, when that is called for (more on that tomorrow).

The Gamemaster’s other main role is to guide the heroes through the district of Cinderfall in the city of Hammerhal above. In doing so, they variously play the role of merchant, pit fighter, priest, fortune teller, drunkard and many more*.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/22/closer-look-the-gamemaster/

I'm warming to this game.

Woo! Checking ebay. You can get the game w/out the figures for $40: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-Quest-Shadows-Over-Hammerhal-FIGURES-ONLY-Pre-order-KKs-Games-/322431299900?hash=item4b1267313c:g:xs0AAOSwB-1YrSIF

Otherwise, I'm seeing $120 including shipping on eBay. Where's that flash sale?

Guess I'm ordering this come midnight!

ced1106 wrote:
Woo! Checking ebay. You can get the game w/out the figures for $40: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-Quest-Shadows-Over-Hammerhal-FIGURES-ONLY-Pre-order-KKs-Games-/322431299900?hash=item4b1267313c:g:xs0AAOSwB-1YrSIF

Otherwise, I'm seeing $120 including shipping on eBay. Where's that flash sale?

I snagged one for $117.95 and have 10% ebay bucks going, so cost about $106 shipped in the end.

So correct me if I am not seeing this right from this ebay vendor

$117 for the whole game
$115 for just minatures
$40 for just game components

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think it's just the Daemons?

I don't know, you think so?

(Sorry, couldn't help myself)

I'm surprised for the amount of people that now are less interesed in the game because the GM. I'm actually surprised, I guess they are part from a younger part of the community.

I think some people will still manage to play this without a GM. It was easier to make a GM for ST, but I'm sure this time around it shouldn't be (much) harder to do.

Now, what's weird for me is that you will be able to play Necromancers and Greenskinz heroes here. Seriously why?

I could understand that some Chaos heroes are here because they want something, but how the other two factions can be played here if this games takes place at the depths of an Order bastion?

I also want more enemy variety. The added rules can mean that we will see an expansion pack with enemies later on (5 Wrathmongers, 3 Skyfires, 10 Plaguebearers and hopefully a Chaos Lord).

While ST didn't got an expansion pack for the additional enemies included on the rulebook (although we've got a DoT SC! last month), the four additional heroes were packeted together on the same bundle later, so there is a chance.

People don't want GM's because the market's already bloated with 1-vs-many games, not to mention true RPGs, and ST was full co-op so it seems only reasonable that this one was, too. Not everyone who disagrees is an uncultured young'n.

I don't know why you're surprised. Not only has "But can you play it co-op?" been the number one question asked since any details about the game have come out, but it was one of the major selling points for the last three dungeon crawlers put out by Games Workshop.

Personally I wouldn't consider myself from the younger part of the community. I've DMed more than my fair share of DnD, Star Wars, Shaodwrun, Gurps, and even Dark Heresy campaigns. The thing is when this kind of game comes out it generally falls to one person to play the GM, and that's me. I'm pretty much sick of it at this point, I'd much rather be having the fun of fighting monsters and leveling up my character than pretending to try and beat the players in order to 'facilitate them having a good time'. Quite frankly I think it's poor game design forcing one player to sacrifice their fun for the good of the group. I understand that there are some people who may enjoy taking on that GM role despite the lack of freedom afforded by something more open (like DnD), but it's not the automatic default state for all gamers over a certain age.

Besides, it also means the game isn't soloable, which is a shame considering they finally decided to give us some character progression mechanics.

Edit: I take that back, just read through that review and the character progression mechanics still look garbage. Throwing in a couple of pages of 'activities' to do between adventures does not make a campaign system.

Dunno if it's just me, but as a parent with easily distracted kids, I end up becoming a semi- GM whenever I can convince them to play as it is, because otherwise I'm at the table alone if I can't hook them in.

With that said, this new game isn't a huge stretch for me in regards to its new GM rules. Would I rather it have the same rules system as Silver Tower? Absolutely. I hate always being the one to run the games (as I'm the one who usually purchases them) and never get to partake in the action unless it's a co-op.

Heck, GW could have asked the community prior to committing to this game and I'm sure they'd get a lot of responses arguing in favor of keeping the pure co-op with all the bells and whistles that the Adventure book/ a GM would have provided.

I am encouraged by GWs efforts at making actual games rather than just glorified miniature packs. The boxed games from GW are essentially the only AoS product I've even bothered to look into.

That said, I am rather confused by this and silver tower. I was expecting a high quality dungeon crawler, and in particular with this latest one a real campaign and character progression system. I've been playing frostgrave, mansions of madness 2ed, and descent 2ed (co-op using the app FTW!), so that's what these GW games are up against for my time and money. I just don't see anything compelling about this or silver tower to make me switch. I really don't like the aesthetics of AoS (the miniatures mostly), but I'd be willing to try it if the gameplay, particularly the campaign mechanics and story, were top notch and better than these other games.

It seems like the campaign stuff is still very much an afterthought, someone with the box correct me if I'm wrong on that.

CMLR wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think it's just the Daemons?

I don't know, you think so?

(Sorry, couldn't help myself)

I'm surprised for the amount of people that now are less interesed in the game because the GM. I'm actually surprised, I guess they are part from a younger part of the community.

I think some people will still manage to play this without a GM. It was easier to make a GM for ST, but I'm sure this time around it shouldn't be (much) harder to do.

Now, what's weird for me is that you will be able to play Necromancers and Greenskinz heroes here. Seriously why?

I could understand that some Chaos heroes are here because they want something, but how the other two factions can be played here if this games takes place at the depths of an Order bastion?

I also want more enemy variety. The added rules can mean that we will see an expansion pack with enemies later on (5 Wrathmongers, 3 Skyfires, 10 Plaguebearers and hopefully a Chaos Lord).

While ST didn't got an expansion pack for the additional enemies included on the rulebook (although we've got a DoT SC! last month), the four additional heroes were packeted together on the same bundle later, so there is a chance.

I have been gaming for 23 years so not new or youngish!

Rules might well be adaptable for no gm

Your right about orks sneaking about as heroes don't see the citizens being happy to see them

I am not against the gm in the sense I am glad it makes some people happy, it's just for me personally I liked the pure co-op and wished they had included a deck of random room cards and maybe a adventure book to accommodate co-op as well, but I am not selfish enough to believe every game should be tailored to me.

Your right on enemy packs they would be great

Now, what's weird for me is that you will be able to play Necromancers and Greenskinz heroes here. Seriously why? 

Well necromancers and undead are easy as you can put their background as spies for Nagash who could've infiltrated the city as regular wizards and called upon his help when chaos arrived (and thus turned undead or summoned the heroes).

Greenskins are a bit tougher and could be simply added as part of a traveling warband looking for a fight and heard all the fun screaming and fighting sounds from the city and decided to drop by.

Though a fun narrative would be captives in a Corsair's slave ship/exotic goods ship that busted out. Orruk mercenaries could work too.