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I am taking this with a big grain of salt... competing systems in one game? that don't sound right
Besides, they will do 40k just like AoS because they did not collect enough gamer tears when they killed warhammer.
And everyone knows the Games Workshop Board of Directors only drink fresh gamer tears..

Rumour makes no sense. Simplified 7th or simplified 8th.
All it means is the community will choose one book to play and ignore the other. It will be like unbound and standard.

No the only solution I see is a slightly simplified new edition used for 30k/40k just like it is now with a few tweaks.

They seem to be inspired and adapting to the 5th edition change. Wizards released every single old version of the game and is still printing them in new prints as well as 5th. Even 5th itself supported modular rules for the game master to tweak the system to his or her liking.

It seems to me like there will be a new edition of 40k with streamlined rules (but I doubt as streamline as base AoS). Then they will also probably have something that is an updated 7th that simply adds rules on where as new 8th ed will simplify things down a little.

There will likely be one the tournament community gravitates towards to (whatever is most balanced without sacrificing interesting mechanics no doubt).

It's a little strange and it could backfire. What if both the casual and competitive players think the 8th edition streamlined version is the superior version? Then they just put in more work than they had to. On the other hand it keeps things backwards compatible with FW better.

Assuming any of this is true and we're getting two sets of rules.

Tyel wrote:
I mean here is a slimmed down version of 40k.

1. One Codex Only. No Allies.
2. No Formations.
3. No FOC but the CAD.
4. No Lords of War
5. No Flyers
6. No Forgeworld (Sorry guys)

So basically 6 things that are never, ever, EVER going to come to pass.

Sorry but ain't happening. GW aims to sell models. Those would hinder with that.

Also FW ban is stupid in that they are the better and more balanced rules out of the two.

tneva82 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I mean here is a slimmed down version of 40k.

1. One Codex Only. No Allies.
2. No Formations.
3. No FOC but the CAD.
4. No Lords of War
5. No Flyers
6. No Forgeworld (Sorry guys)

So basically 6 things that are never, ever, EVER going to come to pass.

Sorry but ain't happening. GW aims to sell models. Those would hinder with that.

Also FW ban is stupid in that they are the better and more balanced rules out of the two.

Bullcrap they are. Taunar, Phantom Titan, Revenant Titan, Lynx, warp hunters, hornets, pylons.

Also why no flyers? Flyers aren't a big deal, aren't all that complex to deal with, and most of them are so bad no one takes them anyway unless they spam out like 6-10.

ERJAK wrote:
Bullcrap they are. Taunar, Phantom Titan, Revenant Titan, Lynx, warp hunters, hornets, pylons.

Also why no flyers? Flyers aren't a big deal, aren't all that complex to deal with, and most of them are so bad no one takes them anyway unless they spam out like 6-10.

Are they 100% perfect? No. But the most broken stuff comes from GW codexes. One could use same arqument btw for flyers. There's couple broken ones there so obviously all flyers needs to go!

Fix the offending units rather than ban them entirely. Especially when GW ain't ever going to ban them. So might at least aim for realistic solution.

Tyel wrote:

1. One Codex Only. No Allies.
2. No Formations.
3. No FOC but the CAD.
4. No Lords of War
5. No Flyers
6. No Forgeworld (Sorry guys)

So, here's the thing.

Formations, allies, LoW, Flyers and Forgeworld are all massive money-makers for GW. Thus there is never any circumstance in which GW will ever get rid of them or not encourage players to use them.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:

Tyel wrote:

1. One Codex Only. No Allies.
2. No Formations.
3. No FOC but the CAD.
4. No Lords of War
5. No Flyers
6. No Forgeworld (Sorry guys)

So, here's the thing.

Formations, allies, LoW, Flyers and Forgeworld are all massive money-makers for GW. Thus there is never any circumstance in which GW will ever get rid of them or not encourage players to use them.

Huh? Since when does GW encourage the use of FW? It was always "based upon approval from opponent".

No, since 6th the "ask your opponent" stuff is gone and FW is part if regular 40k

That's the other thing. GW have had 7 editions to get a good set of rules. What makes you think they can write two?

Because GW will only write and mess up one
the other rules are done and maintained by FW for HH (and they are abke to do it)

PS:
a realustic solution for fixing 40k would be to go away from GW rules and take something else.

Mikhael on 1-30-2017

Regarding 40k’s New 8th Edition belived to be on the way in Q2:

The new edition will have two separate rulesets.
40K: Primary game will have a new set of streamlined rules.
30K: Heresy era ruleset will be seperate and more complex.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/01/40k-rumors-8th-edition-ruleset-splits.html

If i was 12-13 again and getting into 40k in 2017 i'd give it a pass. It's too complicated and there are to many modern day pass times which are easy to access.

So it stands to reason GW are going to release a version of 40k geared to be more accessible.

It also stands to reason they know they have a older massive fan base to cater for who like depth.

Now they might try and make the rules more accessible AND have depth and be competitive. 40k has so much to it now though that this would probably be avery difficult task so it's likely they'll have advanced rules.

we'll just have to wait an see. One thing i think we can be sure of is there IS likely going to be rules which are streamlined for younger/new players in whatever form that takes.

 kodos wrote:
Because GW will only write and mess up one
the other rules are done and maintained by FW for HH (and they are abke to do it)

PS:
a realustic solution for fixing 40k would be to go away from GW rules and take something else.

Forgeworld are able to write a more balanced set of army lists and additional rules that are used in the framework of 'main rules' that was written by GW, there's a difference

Anyone know if Mikhael is usually reliable?

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Because GW will only write and mess up one
the other rules are done and maintained by FW for HH (and they are abke to do it)

PS:
a realustic solution for fixing 40k would be to go away from GW rules and take something else.

Forgeworld are able to write a more balanced set of army lists and additional rules that are used in the framework of 'main rules' that was written by GW, there's a difference

For the main Framework they can use the exusting 7th, cut it down to the core (writing up just the simpke core of the game will take 25 pages) and release it as new "The Rules" for HH.
having more balanced army books will do the rest

If 8th edition comes up with 10-20 pages (or even less) rulebook I'll quit from playing. And I've never been to tournaments, only casual games. But I don't want a simplified game, just a single codex (for every army) for the entire edition that includes everything for the following 4-5 years, not a codex plus 1-2 supplements and maybe some re-release like ghaz waaagh or the wulfen SW edition codex.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Anyone know if Mikhael is usually reliable?

Mikhael - Total rumors: (2 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - Updated 5/2/2016 - NO RUMORS OUTSTANDING

Well Mantic have managed to make the whole 2 rule sets work with Warpath so I guess GW might be able to muddlethrough.

 Blackie wrote:
If 8th edition comes up with 10-20 pages (or even less) rulebook I'll quit from playing. And I've never been to tournaments, only casual games. But I don't want a simplified game, .

less pages do not mean that the game is simplified.
for GW this is true, because 40k is already a very simple game that us just complicated (and nit complex)

but in general you can have a much more complex game than 40k on 20 pages (say 40-50 if not written in columns)

for example
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mBXYftgKUUcN6Rleij3cZnoufY1c_xA9nlrJlI0jh7U/edit?usp=sharing

 kodos wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
If 8th edition comes up with 10-20 pages (or even less) rulebook I'll quit from playing. And I've never been to tournaments, only casual games. But I don't want a simplified game, .

less pages do not mean that the game is simplified.
for GW this is true, because 40k is already a very simple game that us just complicated (and nit complex)

but in general you can have a much more complex game than 40k on 20 pages (say 40-50 if not written in columns)

for example
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mBXYftgKUUcN6Rleij3cZnoufY1c_xA9nlrJlI0jh7U/edit?usp=sharing

AOS how many pages is it? 4-5? The document you posted is composed by 52 pages, not 10-12 or even less. I haven't read it all but it seems to lack the special rules like Shred, FNP, Outflank, Armourbane... it may be more complicated in the standard gameplay but if you cut some rules and possibilities it's actually simplified. I love a game with a ton of different possibilities, I just hate the idea to buy a general rolebook and 2-3 other specific codex/supplements to have all the rules, formations, wargear and units available for the current edition.

AOS how many pages is it? 4-5? The document you posted is composed by 52 pages, not 10-12 or even less.

we talked about 20 pages and GW writes 2 columns which translates to 40-50 pages without.
the document in the link has 30 pages of rules (including those Special rules/triats) and 20 pages with advanced rules
write them in 2 columns GW style and you get 15 pages of core rules.

And AoS has more than 100 pages of rules (core rules+FAQ+handbook), and it is still a simplified game

the amount of pages used are not an indicator of how simple or complex a game is, it just tell you you how complicated the game will be
(X-Wing, Kings of War etc are complex games without complicated rules, 40k & AoS are complicated witout being complex)

 Blackie wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
If 8th edition comes up with 10-20 pages (or even less) rulebook I'll quit from playing. And I've never been to tournaments, only casual games. But I don't want a simplified game, .

less pages do not mean that the game is simplified.
for GW this is true, because 40k is already a very simple game that us just complicated (and nit complex)

but in general you can have a much more complex game than 40k on 20 pages (say 40-50 if not written in columns)

for example
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mBXYftgKUUcN6Rleij3cZnoufY1c_xA9nlrJlI0jh7U/edit?usp=sharing

AOS how many pages is it? 4-5? The document you posted is composed by 52 pages, not 10-12 or even less. I haven't read it all but it seems to lack the special rules like Shred, FNP, Outflank, Armourbane... it may be more complicated in the standard gameplay but if you cut some rules and possibilities it's actually simplified. I love a game with a ton of different possibilities, I just hate the idea to buy a general rolebook and 2-3 other specific codex/supplements to have all the rules, formations, wargear and units available for the current edition.

AoS rules are not only the core rules, the Age of Sigmar basic rules are comprised in 4 separate things:
Core rules
Warscrolls
Battalion Warscrolls
Battleplans

For "Advanced rules" It would be added
General Handbook
Times of war

agreed this would be great, can get my apprehensive friends into 40k easier, and easier for younger people to get into as well

I don't consider 40k complicated at all, in my opinion the only issue is that its rules are spread in different sources. But I don't play anything else so I can't do a comparison with other games. I agree that the volume of pages doesn't mean a simplified/complicated game, I just don't want a 40k edition that simplifies the current one. If you can gather all the rules and possibility in 50 pages rather than 300 that's a good thing of course, but it's only how the rules are written, not the complexity of the game itself. In 40k if you play 5-6 games you'd be confident with 90% of the game's rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

guru wrote:


AoS rules are not only the core rules, the Age of Sigmar basic rules are comprised in 4 separate things:
Core rules
Warscrolls
Battalion Warscrolls
Battleplans

For "Advanced rules" It would be added
General Handbook
Times of war

I'm not confident with AoS, but warscroll and battleplans are referred to specific armies I think, am I right? They're basically like codexes, not general rules, or maybe some sort of expansion sets.

The core 40k rules are not the issue in my opinion. The bloat comes from all the formations with additional rules. I have been in the hobby for almost as long as GW has been around. How can you attempt to use any tactics at all when playing if you have no idea what your opponents army's rules are and what their units do? GW has made it impossible to keep up with unless you are dedicated to purchasing expansion after expansion, as well as investing alot of time, which many veteran players may not have with other responsibilities. Why replace rulebook bloat with formation bloat. Then compound that with the fact that alot of rules in the formations aren't in the main rulebook, the may give Feel No Pain but name it something else.

If GW keeps formations, which I wish they wouldnt but am not so naive to think they wont, they need to write up 20 or so special rules into the main rulebook then use those exact special rules in formations. Having players needing to get all the formations of every army just to know what they are facing is beyond ridiculous. Unfortunately not all of us have a small group of friends to play where you play the same armies and same lists over and over again, many players have to go to a hobby store and play one-offs against people they dont know (And may never play again).

 Blackie wrote:

I'm not confident with AoS, but warscroll and battleplans are referred to specific armies I think, am I right? They're basically like codexes, not general rules, or maybe some sort of expansion sets.

up to a point they are like unit entrys in Codex books
but than still, a lot of rules are not in the core pages but in the other books and on the Scrolls.

RazorEdge wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Anyone know if Mikhael is usually reliable?

Mikhael - Total rumors: (2 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - Updated 5/2/2016 - NO RUMORS OUTSTANDING

2 is a pretty small number and his rumor and yours look suspiciously similar. Your history is pretty sparse, have you posted anywhere else under a different name?

Personally I would like to see them go full Age of Sigmar on 40k.

I have been trying to get back into 40k, but all the new things that they have introduced are just insanely complicated. For example; formations, flyers, variable change ranges, running in the shooting phase, overwatch, jink saves, snap shots... etc.

Perhaps 7th edition is fairly easy to understand if you have been following it as it developed. but as a new player trying understand it all now is just silly.

Things I've seen suggested which sound good to me are;

- Set movement and charge ranges.
- 3rd edition force org chart.
- use unit amount caps for flavour instead of formations (For example Skarboyz are 0-1 unless you are Goffs etc)
- Make it possible to understand the psychic phase without selling your soul to Tzeentch.

I don't care how balanced things are as you can always add a points handicap to one or other side , all I want is to krump some humies with my slugga boyz without having to do 10 hours of rules research beforehand!

Formations are as much about selling you the units you don't want to buy as much as flavour.