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This thread brought to you by 'Law Abiding Citizen'

In short, it's a pretty decent film.

Except I sat through it simply thinking the protagonist was a complete child born out of wedlock.

Whole reason for the baddy's rampage? Prosecutor Protagonist decided not to prosecute suspected murderers to protect his 96% conviction rate

What an absolute Donkey-Cave! Never mind justice and doing your job. Think of your win rate. WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF YOUR WIN RATE!

Protagonist doesn't even get their own much deserved comeuppance!

Have you seen any films where the plot just gives you absolutely no sympathy for the goodies?

Most of the modern ones that include revenge as their main motive or any where the "hero" uses torture.

It depends on if they're a terrible protagonist because they're just plain bad, or are they a terrible protagonist because they're written to be bad? - For example, Wall Street, The Godfather.

Conversely, they could be a terrible protagonist just because you want to beat your brains out on your desk every moment they're on screen. EG, well, every Adam Sandler film.

Prevenge, I guess. Maybe.
Also books but the Cugel saga, SO MUCH THIS! Cugel is the worst bastard ever and then worse!

The casts of most horror films. Especially bad ones. It's like the directors completely miss the point of horror. It's not that gut wrenching when the people getting dismembered totally have it coming XD

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Prevenge, I guess. Maybe.
Also books but the Cugel saga, SO MUCH THIS! Cugel is the worst bastard ever and then worse!

I break those books out at least once a year to read and it annoys the hell out of my wife that I chuckle with amusement the antics of the man. She says he's annoying and she can't understand why I think he's so great.

 LordofHats wrote:
The casts of most horror films. Especially bad ones. It's like the directors completely miss the point of horror. It's not that gut wrenching when the people getting dismembered totally have it coming XD

Kind of disagree.

Nothing like watching some arrogant preppy types being pretend-murdered and pretend-maimed. When it's someone that doesn't deserve it (guy in the Wheelchair, Friday the 13th Part......two, I think?) it makes me feel the killer is a complete arse.

Though speaking of dodgy horror, reckon I'll watch The Cabin In The Woods again tonight. I love that ending!

From memory, the supposed heroes from Don't Breathe.

We should feel sorry for the protagonists who are trapped inside a mentally insane man's house who is killing them.

Wait, no we shouldn't because these "good guys" actually broke in with the intent to steal thousands from him, not to mention they've been doing this for quite some time.

Honourable mentions go to Dom from Fast and Furious, V for Vendetta and pretty much any Batman film (Bats is cool though because he gave us Dick Grayson, IE Batman but better)

Flashman - read a couple of the books as Ciaphas Cain is partly based on him. While interesting to get a bit of the history, the character is such a complete git that I couldn't be bothered with any more of him. I realise that he's supposed to be this way. But not a film, so technically off topic.

Film wise :-

Everyone in Sin City
Daniel Craig's Bond

 LordofHats wrote:
The casts of most horror films. Especially bad ones. It's like the directors completely miss the point of horror. It's not that gut wrenching when the people getting dismembered totally have it coming XD

It depends I sometimes feel it's cathartic.

 LordofHats wrote:
The casts of most horror films. Especially bad ones. It's like the directors completely miss the point of horror. It's not that gut wrenching when the people getting dismembered totally have it coming XD

The point of horror is to horrify, not simply to see bad or good people getting ripped to pieces. The most effective horror films I've seen utilise suspense and psychological visuals/sounds rather than gore. The Japanese tend to be masters of this.

House of 1k Corpses/The Devils Rejects does a nice trick where by the end of the sequel you're somehow rooting for the people who just spent 1.5 movies eviscerating innocent people. There is a very satisfying vigilante justice scene as well making you question where you should be placing your conscience.

On topic: Balian of Ibelin in Kingdom of Heaven is probably the worst protagonist I've ever seen. Orlando Bloom isn't the best actor in the world, but in this movie he seems bent on being as weak as possible. Not to mention his story being so far removed from reality it's comical. I did enjoy the rest of the film though despite its typical ahistorical tendency to demonise Christians of the era, some top notch battle scenes.

Some dishonourable mentions:
Sam Witwicky from the Transformers abortion
Jon Snow
Most of the main cast of Vikings post season 3

Almost every marvel cinematic universe character. Some of the protagonists are good or even great actors/actresses but the only character that I really like in that universe is actually The Winter Soldier. Benedict Cumberabtch, Scarlett Johansson, Robert Downey jr, Samuel L. Jackson, Tom Hiddleston are all absolute stars but the characters they portray are really dumb. Also the villain in The Force Awakens is among the worst antagonists I've ever seen.

 MarsNZ wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
The casts of most horror films. Especially bad ones. It's like the directors completely miss the point of horror. It's not that gut wrenching when the people getting dismembered totally have it coming XD

The point of horror is to horrify, not simply to see bad or good people getting ripped to pieces. The most effective horror films I've seen utilise suspense and psychological visuals/sounds rather than gore. The Japanese tend to be masters of this.

House of 1k Corpses/The Devils Rejects does a nice trick where by the end of the sequel you're somehow rooting for the people who just spent 1.5 movies eviscerating innocent people. There is a very satisfying vigilante justice scene as well making you question where you should be placing your conscience.

On topic: Balian of Ibelin in Kingdom of Heaven is probably the worst protagonist I've ever seen. Orlando Bloom isn't the best actor in the world, but in this movie he seems bent on being as weak as possible. Not to mention his story being so far removed from reality it's comical. I did enjoy the rest of the film though despite its typical ahistorical tendency to demonise Christians of the era, some top notch battle scenes.

Some dishonourable mentions:
Sam Witwicky from the Transformers abortion
Jon Snow
Most of the main cast of Vikings post season 3

There's different a gulf between Splatter-fests and Horror. Splatter-fests are mostly titillation. Horror can be serious 'I'm not coming out from behind the sofa' affairs - especially when it's a haunting themed film, and the protagonists had no part in the spirit's malaise (yes, Asian horror tends to be most effective there!)

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


There's different a gulf between Splatter-fests and Horror. Splatter-fests are mostly titillation. Horror can be serious 'I'm not coming out from behind the sofa' affairs - especially when it's a haunting themed film, and the protagonists had no part in the spirit's malaise (yes, Asian horror tends to be most effective there!)

I'd argue the difference is even more pronounced in video games. Resident Evil series vs the Silent Hill series showcases the different approach of the West vs the East. Resident Evil is good fun, shooting up zombies and getting a few frights. Silent Hill had my skin crawling before I'd even seen one of the many bizarre enemies.

Unfortunately, I've only played Silent Hill The Room.

Soon as I got an Iron Bar and couldn't stop hitting things, it lost it's creepiness!

But definitely the most chilling horrors is where the victims just don't deserve any of it.

 Blackie wrote:
Almost every marvel cinematic universe character. Some of the protagonists are good or even great actors/actresses but the only character that I really like in that universe is actually The Winter Soldier. Benedict Cumberabtch, Scarlett Johansson, Robert Downey jr, Samuel L. Jackson, Tom Hiddleston are all absolute stars but the characters they portray are really dumb. Also the villain in The Force Awakens is among the worst antagonists I've ever seen.

Kylo Ren is great one of the best things about that movie, a moody angst filled Sith who is obsessed with power but doesn't have the patience and self control to get there that's a fun concept, he's more interesting and has more personality than any Rogue One non character.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Almost every marvel cinematic universe character. Some of the protagonists are good or even great actors/actresses but the only character that I really like in that universe is actually The Winter Soldier. Benedict Cumberabtch, Scarlett Johansson, Robert Downey jr, Samuel L. Jackson, Tom Hiddleston are all absolute stars but the characters they portray are really dumb. Also the villain in The Force Awakens is among the worst antagonists I've ever seen.

Kylo Ren is great one of the best things about that movie, a moody angst filled Sith who is obsessed with power but doesn't have the patience and self control to get there that's a fun concept, he's more interesting and has more personality than any Rogue One non character.

Well ep VII has countless issues and it's definitely a horrible movie, but I think The villain is really one the worst character I've ever seen, basically a Darth Vader parody, and the awful acting of a mediocre actor didn't help. The big Gollum was quite terrbile too. I agree that rogue one doesn't have memorable characters but that movie was actually the only Star wars decent episode since Return of the Jedi, and the cast was not particularly annoying in my opinion.

 Blackie wrote:
Well ep VII has countless issues and it's definitely a horrible movie, but I think The villain is really one the worst character I've ever seen, basically a Darth Vader parody, and the awful acting of a mediocre actor didn't help.

Well, I think that's definitely a horrible opinion. *shrug*

Legolas in the Hobbit movies, it keeps setting up these in peril moments for him, but then you remember the LoTR movies came out first and he's in those, goodbye peril.

 Blackie wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Almost every marvel cinematic universe character. Some of the protagonists are good or even great actors/actresses but the only character that I really like in that universe is actually The Winter Soldier. Benedict Cumberabtch, Scarlett Johansson, Robert Downey jr, Samuel L. Jackson, Tom Hiddleston are all absolute stars but the characters they portray are really dumb. Also the villain in The Force Awakens is among the worst antagonists I've ever seen.

Kylo Ren is great one of the best things about that movie, a moody angst filled Sith who is obsessed with power but doesn't have the patience and self control to get there that's a fun concept, he's more interesting and has more personality than any Rogue One non character.

Well ep VII has countless issues and it's definitely a horrible movie, but I think The villain is really one the worst character I've ever seen, basically a Darth Vader parody, and the awful acting of a mediocre actor didn't help. The big Gollum was quite terrbile too. I agree that rogue one doesn't have memorable characters but that movie was actually the only Star wars decent episode since Return of the Jedi, and the cast was not particularly annoying in my opinion.

See, I feel the First Order and Kylo Ren being poor imitations of The Empire was very deliberate.

Just as The Empire were The German National Socialist Party of 1920-1945 analogies, The First Order and Ren are neo-Nazi analogies - all the bile, none of the history etc. They're meant to look whiny and whingey. They're worshipping an Empire that fell before they were born.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
The casts of most horror films. Especially bad ones. It's like the directors completely miss the point of horror. It's not that gut wrenching when the people getting dismembered totally have it coming XD

Kind of disagree.

Nothing like watching some arrogant preppy types being pretend-murdered and pretend-maimed. When it's someone that doesn't deserve it (guy in the Wheelchair, Friday the 13th Part......two, I think?) it makes me feel the killer is a complete arse.

Though speaking of dodgy horror, reckon I'll watch The Cabin In The Woods again tonight. I love that ending!

I really didn't like Cabin in the woods. I mean really, have no other people smoked weed in that cabin over the years?

But I have come across films where I don't give a toss about the lead. Avatar was one. Man betrays entire planet for Vagina? I mean really?

I love the metanarrative of "Cabin in the Woods" more than the film itself.

Like, for example, it really does filter into this very thread too.

And conveniently the characters were not wholly unlikable, even the villains

I think @Compel has it spot on regarding the anti-hero movie where you are supposed to cheer for the villain.

I recall an outstanding film in its own right, done by a world-class director, and all I could think about watching it was, "Would someone just kill this rotten, SOB drug-dealing criminal already?"

...Scarface...

 welshhoppo wrote:

But I have come across films where I don't give a toss about the lead. Avatar was one. Man betrays entire planet for Vagina? I mean really?

The protagonist actually supported the entire planet by fighting for the natives Humans were the bad guys there. And for vagina a lot of men would do everything

Now this is podracing!

I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.

 Manchu wrote:
Now this is podracing!

I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.

You're talking about David Rice in Jumper right? Right?

 Manchu wrote:
Now this is podracing!

I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.

You're a monster! A MONSTER! *runs away crying*

Kermit the Frog as the Doctor Miss Piggy as the Assistant (of course). Yahya!

Bella fething Swan.