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OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: The Trump administration considered a proposal to mobilize as many as 100,000 national guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants, including millions living nowhere near the Mexico border, according to a draft memo obtained by the Associated Press.
That's not their job. Is he really going to send national guard door-to-door to round up illegals? Does anyone think any commander is going to follow that order?
I'm sure some would be happy to anoint the troops and go forth to battle for the glory of god.
Not sure I understand your statement. You aren't going to find much more Christian than the Mexicans and South-Americans that makes the bulk of illegals in the US.
They may be referencing the disturbing belief among some that their is indeed a holy/race war underway.
So...
Cop vs Blacks
National Guard vs Illegals
US military vs Russia
Everyone vs Muslims
... that's a heavy schedule to follow.
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
No, we're still at the Trump-is-literally-Hitler-and-all-gays-Muslims-and-immigrants-will-be-rounded-up, and anyone we disagree with is a Nazi who should be physically attacked because dissenting views are violence, stage
You're not trying to paint everyone who is opposed to the Twit(ter)-in-Chief with that brush, are you?
No, we're still at the Trump-is-literally-Hitler-and-all-gays-Muslims-and-immigrants-will-be-rounded-up
While perhaps some stuff is overblown, he's laying a lot of familiar groundwork. Attacking the independent judiciary and laying the groundwork for a Reichstag fire style response by laying responsibility for any future terrorist attack at their feet, on top of immediate crackdowns on enforcement and additional restrictions aimed primarily at these sorts of groups, on top of attacking the media as a whole using many of the same lines and techniques and otherwise outright lying and ranting in official press conferences.
and anyone we disagree with is a Nazi who should be physically attacked because dissenting views are violence, stage
the only place I saw this advocated by anyone here was with someone who, by any standard, actually is a Nazi, Richard Spencer, and actually does advocate for all of the above stuff and worse. Outside of that its mostly just been general hooliganism taking advantage of public protests to go wild and then being cast as the whole of said protests.
Sadly there have been a few interviews with protest organizers who have advanced this argument in support of violence,
Automatically Appended Next Post:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: The Trump administration considered a proposal to mobilize as many as 100,000 national guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants, including millions living nowhere near the Mexico border, according to a draft memo obtained by the Associated Press.
(a pretty good thing it doesn't seem to have been followed up, although given the frequency of completely opposite statements on a subjects from the Trump team I wouldn't be surprised if it popped up again)
Which the DHS and the Administration have reported is false, so we'll see what more information comes out.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/17 19:24:42
Flynn lied to the FBI. This is a crime. He told the FBI in an interview he did not discuss sanctions. There is a transcript of him doing exactly that. The FBI is not expected to bring charges.
At the time, the US was levying sanctions on Russia, so this is a pretty clear violation of the Logan act. The FBI is not expected to bring charges.
There are no records of his trip to Russia, where he was paid to speak. This is a fairly clear violation of the emoluments clause. The FBI is not expected to bring charges.
You have a problem with none of this, obviously.
Yes, as everyone on this forum knows, it is indeed pretty straightforward.
The odd thing is that when the admins suggested they were considering nuking the OT forum, some of you started speaking up about the need to self-moderate. What reason anyone would have to preserve access to this monument to intellectual dishonest is beyond me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/17 19:44:36
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Flynn lied to the FBI. This is a crime. He told the FBI in an interview he did not discuss sanctions. There is a transcript of him doing exactly that. The FBI is not expected to bring charges.
Have you seen the transcript? I haven't...
At the time, the US was levying sanctions on Russia, so this is a pretty clear violation of the Logan act. The FBI is not expected to bring charges.
How you can say it's clear if you haven't read the transcript?
There are no records of his trip to Russia, where he was paid to speak. This is a fairly clear violation of the emoluments clause. The FBI is not expected to bring charges.
That indeed is a problem... understandbly former military folks need prior approval before doing things like this...
You have a problem with none of this, obviously.
That's where you're wrong.
I never, LIKED Mike Flynn to begin with... especially how he treated the Obama Administration after he was fired. Evidently, the Trump team don't like Flynn either and this ordeal was used as a pretext to ask for Flynn's resignation.
Yes, as everyone on this forum knows, it is indeed pretty straightforward.
It's fun that I have some real estate in your head...
The odd thing is that when the admins suggested they were considering nuking the OT forum, some of you started speaking up about the need to self-moderate. What reason anyone would have to preserve access to this monument to intellectual dishonest is beyond me.
There's your patented poop-n-swoop.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/17 19:59:07
Can anyone explain to me Trump's obsession with Chicago? He keeps picking on the place as a terrible disaster area, worse than any middle-eastern city.
Kilkrazy wrote: Can anyone explain to me Trump's obsession with Chicago? He keeps picking on the place as a terrible disaster area, worse than any middle-eastern city.
He's making it a mountain out of an ant-hill for sure...
It's the fact that many of the violence is under-reported nationally... and it's Obama's hometown, that's known as a Democratic Enclave (It's not 'what' you know, but 'who').
But, he makes it sound like the #1 murder capital in the US... which is misleading, and if I'm not mistaken Chicago is middle in the pack. (I think St. Louis is actually #1 )
However, it *is* on the rise though...
EDIT: good chart
The St. Louis ranking is also misleading in that "St. Louis" & "St. Louis County" are counted separately. If they're added together, St. Louis' murder rate would be about where Chicago is at as well...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/17 20:08:09
KYLE, Texas - If the first casualty of war is truth, then the first casualties of trade war are the working man and woman. And first among them is about to be the iconic Texas rancher.
Here in the rolling pastures of bright, green spring grass at the edge of the Texas Hill Country, the handful of large spreads prosper from a wet winter. The short-horned Charolais breed, imported from France via Mexico, grow thick and wide, their white coats bright in the sunshine of impending spring. The Charolais makes for some of the finest grass-fed beef in the world. Now that a years-long drought has broken, ranchers can count on trucking in less of that expensive coastal grass they require in the dry months.
But the Texas cattle rancher now faces a new threat: the Trump administration's blundering, blustering trade policy. By threatening a trade war with Mexico within days of inauguration, the president helped trigger a slide in cattle futures. Mexico is a major export market. By sinking the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the new administration cut off long-sought access to the Japanese market. Now banks have raised the conditions for collateral for loans for ranchers.
Texas ranchers, though, will not be alone for long. Beef producers from Nebraska to the Dakotas face the same problems. So do grain farmers in Kansas and the snow-covered corn fields of Iowa, just like tomato farmers in California and Florida and autoworkers in Michigan, longshoremen, truckers and railway workers in Miami and Houston and Long Beach. These will be the first casualties of a trade war.
Trump fired his opening salvo right after his inauguration by threatening a 20 percent tax on Mexican goods coming into the United States, the funds would ostensibly fund the border wall. That led to Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto to cancel a summit with the new American president. Trump's was an artillery shell delivered for effect. Peña Nieto answered in kind. Within days, both beat a hasty retreat though, putting their diplomats behind closed doors with the Canadians to work out a new trade agreement.
By then, however, the collateral damage was done. It was clear that the Trump administration would at least re-write trade agreements if not scuttle them. The first to go down was the Trans-Pacific Partnership. And re-writing the rest means, at the very least, injecting uncertainty into what the new rules of trade look like. At the worst, it means that the trade wars will resume in earnest. No state in the country has more exposure to economic damage in each scenario than Texas.
Texas doesn't remotely fit the mold of Trump's enfeebled America that is losing jobs to competitors overseas. Texas is the largest exporter among the 50 states with nearly $280 billion in exports, according to state data. The top destinations: Mexico, followed by Canada, Brazil and China, three of which are now embroiled in trade disputes with Washington even as Texas exports oil, coal, petrochemicals, heavy machinery and transportation equipment. That means Texas is home to some of the nation's busiest ports, such as Laredo, El Paso, Houston and Galveston. More Texans work in trade than in oil and gas. Nearly a half-million work for foreign-owned companies, which have pumped more than $20 billion annually into the economy.
Now all that is at varying forms of risk. Sinking the Trans-Pacific Partnership may have been popular with Trump's supporters, but it was not popular with cattle ranchers. They have been building herds for years and anticipated shipping beef products -- some of which are not exactly popular among American consumers -- to Japan as tariffs fell from 38.5 percent to just over 9 percent. Now that opportunity is gone. Instead, other cattle-producing nations like Australia will try to seize the Japanese market on a bilateral basis.
Last week, Texas ranchers shipped 1,430 cattle to Mexico, most to slaughter and to market. On an annual basis that's 74,000 head, part of a brisk two-way business that sees hundreds of thousands of Mexican cattle coming north to be fattened in Midwestern feed lots. But in the event of a trade war, all bets are off. A tariff here means retaliation by the Mexican government there, and the last time that happened, it was the United States that surrendered. In phasing in NAFTA in the early 2000s, Congress abruptly interrupted the movement of Mexican trucks north. The Mexicans retaliated with a crippling tariff on American tomato growers. The Republican Congress caved and today, Mexican trucks head north freely.
Ranching is a tough business. Even in good times, a margin is thinner than barbed wire. A spike in feed costs here or a change of government policy there and the year is a bust before it's begun. Already cow-calf operators aren't coming close to breaking even on their calves. But ranchers wouldn't be alone. A variety of studies and forecasts show that Iowa corn farmers would find themselves in huge trouble; they are highly dependent on exports to China and to Mexico. So are grain farmers on the High Plains.
The interruption of supply chains between Mexico and Detroit would be felt by autoworkers. Americans export cars, after all, for sale in Mexico -- not just assemble parts of them there. Even shippers are in trouble. Citigroup warned investors about five companies with exposure in Mexico recently. One was Kansas City Southern, whose rails connect Mexico and much of the United States. The stock price plummeted. But that was only after Citigroup cut its own exposure in Mexico first, of course.
Now, even the investor class is starting to feel the headwinds of economic war. Despite a rally at the stock market, the president's policies are now proving logically incoherent when they're put together. The border wall was to be budget-neutral, meaning no new taxes or spending, but now it turns out to cost an estimated $20 billion, which the Mexicans will, in fact, not pay. That means increasing deficit spending or raising taxes, both of which seem non-starters.
A wall and a spending spree on infrastructure will not, it turns out, be free because debt-to-productivity ratios are climbing. Banks are tightening lending conditions, anticipating a profitable credit crunch. Fitch Ratings has warned that the president's erratic foreign and trade policy is causing so much uncertainty that even foreign government debt is starting to look shaky.
"The Trump administration represents a risk to international economic conditions and global sovereign credit fundamentals," according to Fitch. "U.S. policy predictability has diminished, with established international communication channels and relationship norms being set aside and raising the prospect of sudden, unanticipated changes in U.S. policies with potential global implications."
The irony, of course, is that states like Texas, the plains states and Michigan all helped put Trump in office. But the cows in pasture don't care about politics. And cowboys rightly don't care about irony, even if they are to be its first casualties.
Oh good the banks are starting to worry.
That always ends well.
One gathers that if the National Guard is mobilised to act as Trump's Super Immigrant Round Up Task force the $$$ cost is paid by the states concerned.
...so that's an argument that'll be fun to watch.
Your judges are sure earning their money these days huh ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/17 20:10:42
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
whembly wrote: [
It's the fact that many of the violence is under-reported nationally... and it's Obama's hometown, that's known as a Democratic Enclave (It's not 'what' you know, but 'who').
Doesn't Trump think Nairobi is Obama's hometown?
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
I for one look forward to all the mutant fish we'll be able to catch, and all the unqualified idiots who will be called "experts" so Trump can make science say what is politically convenient
whembly wrote: [
It's the fact that many of the violence is under-reported nationally... and it's Obama's hometown, that's known as a Democratic Enclave (It's not 'what' you know, but 'who').
@whembly: I don't know if you have the tools to do this, but put Clinton's face on Trump's and rewatch his press conference. Report back when you have done so. Care to opine? I'm sure you have lots to say about how horrific and inept and horrendous Clinton's words were. I expect a huuuuge block of text.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/17 20:21:44
Kilkrazy wrote: Can anyone explain to me Trump's obsession with Chicago? He keeps picking on the place as a terrible disaster area, worse than any middle-eastern city.
He's making it a mountain out of an ant-hill for sure...
It's the fact that many of the violence is under-reported nationally... and it's Obama's hometown, that's known as a Democratic Enclave (It's not 'what' you know, but 'who').
But, he makes it sound like the #1 murder capital in the US... which is misleading, and if I'm not mistaken Chicago is middle in the pack. (I think St. Louis is actually #1 )
However, it *is* on the rise though...
EDIT: good chart
Spoiler:
The St. Louis ranking is also misleading in that "St. Louis" & "St. Louis County" are counted separately. If they're added together, St. Louis' murder rate would be about where Chicago is at as well...
The point of the Chicago thing is that in 2015 there was 468 murders. In 2016 762. That is just horrifying. Do other cities have higher rates? Certainly, but what is going on in Chicago though to see such a HUGE jump? As of right now, the city is on a 2 year climb on homicide rates. So far in 2017, the rates are just about on track with 2016. It's not looking all that good.
whembly wrote: [
It's the fact that many of the violence is under-reported nationally... and it's Obama's hometown, that's known as a Democratic Enclave (It's not 'what' you know, but 'who').
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/17 20:27:45
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Gordon Shumway wrote: @whembly: I don't know if you have the tools to do this, but put Clinton's face on Trump's and rewatch his press conference. Report back when you have done so. Care to opine? I'm sure you have lots to say about how horrific and inept and horrendous Clinton's words were. I expect a huuuuge block of text.
Ya mean like this?
As to the press conference...It was a bunch of nonsense really...
It's exactly what he did during the campaign. His supporters loved it... the media/detractors are like WTF... the indies won't give a gak.
You know how Obama was criticized that we was in perpetual campaign mode? That's because it's the only way for him to maintain his base... (which didn't help other down ticket democrats tho).
Looks like Trumpo is going to follow that same formula...
whembly wrote: [
It's the fact that many of the violence is under-reported nationally... and it's Obama's hometown, that's known as a Democratic Enclave (It's not 'what' you know, but 'who').
Kilkrazy wrote: Can anyone explain to me Trump's obsession with Chicago? He keeps picking on the place as a terrible disaster area, worse than any middle-eastern city.
He's making it a mountain out of an ant-hill for sure...
It's the fact that many of the violence is under-reported nationally... and it's Obama's hometown, that's known as a Democratic Enclave (It's not 'what' you know, but 'who').
But, he makes it sound like the #1 murder capital in the US... which is misleading, and if I'm not mistaken Chicago is middle in the pack. (I think St. Louis is actually #1 )
However, it *is* on the rise though...
EDIT: good chart
Spoiler:
The St. Louis ranking is also misleading in that "St. Louis" & "St. Louis County" are counted separately. If they're added together, St. Louis' murder rate would be about where Chicago is at as well...
The point of the Chicago thing is that in 2015 there was 468 murders. In 2016 762. That is just horrifying. Do other cities have higher rates? Certainly, but what is going on in Chicago though to see such a HUGE jump? As of right now, the city is on a 2 year climb on homicide rates. So far in 2017, the rates are just about on track with 2016. It's not looking all that good.
63% increase between '15 and '16... that is a bit... insane...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/17 20:31:03
I for one look forward to all the mutant fish we'll be able to catch, and all the unqualified idiots who will be called "experts" so Trump can make science say what is politically convenient
I just want to see the mental gymnastics of the people who think this is a great idea. Like they just cant wait for their lands to be polluted. They looked at places like Flint and said "Mmmm, we want that."
I for one look forward to all the mutant fish we'll be able to catch, and all the unqualified idiots who will be called "experts" so Trump can make science say what is politically convenient
I just want to see the mental gymnastics of the people who think this is a great idea. Like they just cant wait for their lands to be polluted. They looked at places like Flint and said "Mmmm, we want that."
Right... because the EPA did such a great job of preventing things like Flint from occurring.
I saw someone make a point recently about how we've had "great" people running these offices for decades now, but they only seem to be growing more bloated, and ineffectual, not more efficient. So maybe some shake up needs to occur? *shrugs* All I'm going to say it's kinda silly to be pointing at someone as being disastrous, when the organization was already FUBAR'd.
And your response to a government agency that lacks teeth is to put in charge a guy who thinks it shouldn't exist? The ineffectual nature of EPA almost completely stems from legal ambiguity, budget, and corporate dishonesty. The EPA can't do its job when people look for reasons to declare it a failure, and it can't do its job when it is set up to fail.
LordofHats wrote: And your response to a government agency that lacks teeth is to put in charge a guy who thinks it shouldn't exist? The ineffectual nature of EPA almost completely stems from legal ambiguity, budget, and corporate dishonesty. The EPA can't do its job when people look for reasons to declare it a failure, and it can't do its job when it is set up to fail.
It does take gold medal mental gymnasts to circle that square.
@whembly: so let me get this straight, your response is to use a photoshopped image for the lols, then somehow tie it to Obama. I asked you to consider if the opposite team had done what your team did, would you call the same fouls. What is you own response to the Orangitans press conference? You are allowed to respond with your actual beliefs. did you think it was good? Did you think, "holy crap, this guy is a feth"? Give us your play by play of the conference, because we know you would do it of the opposing side. And we can guess what it would look like, reality be damned. What does your reality say about how he handled his time in front of the cameras? I'm actually asking for content, not just a summation because is this were a Clinton conference, we could all expect a parsing of every word out of it from you.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/17 21:13:52
LordofHats wrote: And your response to a government agency that lacks teeth is to put in charge a guy who thinks it shouldn't exist? The ineffectual nature of EPA almost completely stems from legal ambiguity, budget, and corporate dishonesty. The EPA can't do its job when people look for reasons to declare it a failure, and it can't do its job when it is set up to fail.
Welcome to the world of the Libertarian. Guess where we feel the Dept. of Education should belong as well?
LordofHats wrote: And your response to a government agency that lacks teeth is to put in charge a guy who thinks it shouldn't exist? The ineffectual nature of EPA almost completely stems from legal ambiguity, budget, and corporate dishonesty. The EPA can't do its job when people look for reasons to declare it a failure, and it can't do its job when it is set up to fail.
Welcome to the world of the Libertarian. Guess where we feel the Dept. of Education should belong as well?
So what, anybody negativity effected by pollution can go feth themselves?
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
LordofHats wrote: And your response to a government agency that lacks teeth is to put in charge a guy who thinks it shouldn't exist? The ineffectual nature of EPA almost completely stems from legal ambiguity, budget, and corporate dishonesty. The EPA can't do its job when people look for reasons to declare it a failure, and it can't do its job when it is set up to fail.
Welcome to the world of the Libertarian. Guess where we feel the Dept. of Education should belong as well?
Well libertarianism belongs in the 1800s also know as the last time it could be remotely relevant
Facts are so 2016. Guys, Trump won, so move one. He had huge numbers; more electoral votes than any other candidate ever and would have won the popular vote if it wasn't for all the voter fraud. Since he is the greatest winner ever, obviously anyone questioning him is just an unfair loser. His supporters get this; they don't believe all the fake news that insists on things like "verifiable facts" and "things that actually happened". Plus, all the bad things are just the mess he inherited as everything is going perfectly smooth and he has great people. The best.
3000
4000 
)
My bad...
