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You know, War Hymns fail. A lot. You can't truly rely on them.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You know, War Hymns fail. A lot. You can't truly rely on them.

u

His priest has the relic that makes war hyms auto pass.

However, my 50 man conscript squad, with priest, and inquisitor(with rad and psykotroke grenades) will hands down beat them half the time for an equal cost. 100% of the time if I can get in cover.

Then he's at more than 175 points. The relic is, what? 20 points? So his squad is at 235 points, more or less?

Edit: That's about 7 Wulfen and a priest. If the Wulfen charge, he gets to strike at Initiative. If the Assassins charge, they're probably striking last.

Anyway, math.

On the charge, the Wulfen will have 35 attacks at S5, for 26.25 hits, 21.88 wounds, 9.72 dead assassins after the rerollable saves (assuming War Hymns FAILED). The assassins will have 30 attacks, hitting on 3s, rerolling, for 26.67 hits, wounding on 3s for 17.78 wounds, which is 11.8 wounds after FNP. That's about 10 dead assassins and 6 dead Wulfen, leaving one Wulfen and Priest on the Wulf side, and one each of an Inquisitor and Priest on the opposition. If we factor in the attacks from the Priest and Inquisitor, they're hitting on 4s, rerolling, for 6 hits, wounding on 4s, for 3 wounds, with a 4+ save, for 1.5 wounds after that, and 1 after FNP. That will wound the last remaining Wulfen. (Oh, and the Wulfen's Priest does 4 attacks, 3 hits, 1.5 wound, .375 wounds on the Priest through his rerollable save.)

Next round, the Wulfen attacks 3 times, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.25 times, which is .31 through the Priest's rerollable Rosarius. The Priest is probably slain. Then, the Inquisitor attacks, 4 times, hitting on 4s, for 2 hits, .67 wounds, .33 after saves, and .22 after FNP. The Priest attacks, with 3 attacks, 1.5 hits, .5 wounds, .25 after saves, and .17 after FNP. The Wulfen's Priest attacks, 3 times, 1.5 hits, .75 wounds, .19 wounds after rerollable saves, but this DEFINITELY slays the Priest. (Taking it on the Inquisitor is a bad idea-he has a worse save.)

Next round, Wulfen does the same thing, wounding 1.25 wounds, which is .83 through the Inquisitor's 5+. Then the Inquisitor strikes, doing .22 after saves and FNP. The Priest goes for the Inquisitor, .75 wounds, .5 wounds on the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor has now taken just over 1 wound, and probably slays the Wulfen, but then the Wulfen strikes again. .83 more wounds on the Inquisitor, for 2.16 total.

Now, we're down to just a Priest (who's failed EVERY SINGLE WAR HYMN ROLL, I remind you) and an Inquisitor. Inquisitor strikes first, doing 4 attacks, 2.67 hits, 1.33 wounds, .67 wounds. Priest maybe strikes back, dealing .5 more wounds.

So, if the Wulfen charge, it's most likely Mutually Assured Destruction... Assuming the Wulfen priest never, ever makes a War Hymn roll.

If the Assassins charge, they're probably down to I1. Wulfen strike first, with 28 attacks, hitting on 4s rerolling, for 21 hits, wounding on 2s, 17,5 wounds, which is 7.78 after rerollable saves. That leaves 2 assassins, a Priest, and an Inquisitor. The Inquisitor strikes next, 5 attacks, hitting on 4s, rerolling, for 3.75 hits, 1.88 wounds, .94 after saves, .63 after FNP. Priest has 4 attacks, hitting on 4s rerolling, for 3 hits, 1.5 wounds, .75 after saves, and .5 after FNP. Assassins last, with 8 attacks, hitting on 3s, rerolling, 7.11 hits, 4.74 wounds, 3.16 after FNP. That kills two Wulfen, who immediately strike again, for 8 attacks, 6 hits, 5 wounds, 2.22 more dead assassins.

It's now one priest and one Inquisitor versus one priest and five Wulfen. I'm not gonna bother doing math on that-we all know how it'll end.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Then he's at more than 175 points. The relic is, what? 20 points? So his squad is at 235 points, more or less?

Hes claiming to be at 230 points. Not got codex to hand to check but it's 10 DCA, priest with relic, inquisitor with rad nades.

That would make the Relic 15 points. Sounds legit.

After a bit of tinkering around:

30 tyranid gargoyles with adrenal glands: 240

You'll be taking HoW hits before you actually get to do anything.
Even with a rerollable save you will take plenty of wounds.

What's left of the unit hasn't got enough return attacks to kill the gargoyles.
To which they are hitting with 2 attacks each at S4.



This unit is also not situational as it can be used for screening, tarpitting or just in general, bringing things down through sheer forced saves.

If you drop the glands you can even afford 10 more gargoyles lol.


HoW really is great for killing units, more so when it's coming from a cheap throw away unit like gargoyles.

champagne_socialist wrote:the inquisitor has frag grenades

As has been pointed out repeatedly, frag grenades only work for the person carrying them, so your DCA are out of luck. You can jam assault launchers on a redeemer or crusader for 10 points however which fixes that issue (for another 250 points mind you).

champagne_socialist wrote:my unit hits on a 3 re-rollable at a higher initative and kills on a 2 due to rad grenades and I have a 5+ re-rollable invun save due to war hymms.

No, you hit on 3's against anything not majority WS5 and you only re-roll to hit in the first round of combat.

They're actually WS6, I believe. But mostly accurate.

As constantly stated, the Inq. having assault grenades does nothing for the unit.
You might want to check the book for yourself.

It clearly states that models equipped with them fight at initiative when assaulting into cover.
It's not a rule he confers to his entire unit.

So if you charge anyone in cover, the inquisitor strikes at initiative.
Everyone else at I1.

why would I accept the challenge lol I would just keep doing the war hymm of re-rolling my invun saves and lock the librariad dreadnought in combat for the rest f the game.

Ignoring the rest of this thread, you realize you are having your huge death star unit locked in combat by a Library Dreadnought.

What if I charge a wraithlord into it? Maybe two? Maybe a wraithknight?

A basic GSC Metamorph with whips will go toe to toe with the DCAs for half the cost.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Then he's at more than 175 points. The relic is, what? 20 points? So his squad is at 235 points, more or less?

Edit: That's about 7 Wulfen and a priest. If the Wulfen charge, he gets to strike at Initiative. If the Assassins charge, they're probably striking last.

Anyway, math.

On the charge, the Wulfen will have 35 attacks at S5, for 26.25 hits, 21.88 wounds, 9.72 dead assassins after the rerollable saves (assuming War Hymns FAILED). The assassins will have 30 attacks, hitting on 3s, rerolling, for 26.67 hits, wounding on 3s for 17.78 wounds, which is 11.8 wounds after FNP. That's about 10 dead assassins and 6 dead Wulfen, leaving one Wulfen and Priest on the Wulf side, and one each of an Inquisitor and Priest on the opposition. If we factor in the attacks from the Priest and Inquisitor, they're hitting on 4s, rerolling, for 6 hits, wounding on 4s, for 3 wounds, with a 4+ save, for 1.5 wounds after that, and 1 after FNP. That will wound the last remaining Wulfen. (Oh, and the Wulfen's Priest does 4 attacks, 3 hits, 1.5 wound, .375 wounds on the Priest through his rerollable save.)

Next round, the Wulfen attacks 3 times, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.25 times, which is .31 through the Priest's rerollable Rosarius. The Priest is probably slain. Then, the Inquisitor attacks, 4 times, hitting on 4s, for 2 hits, .67 wounds, .33 after saves, and .22 after FNP. The Priest attacks, with 3 attacks, 1.5 hits, .5 wounds, .25 after saves, and .17 after FNP. The Wulfen's Priest attacks, 3 times, 1.5 hits, .75 wounds, .19 wounds after rerollable saves, but this DEFINITELY slays the Priest. (Taking it on the Inquisitor is a bad idea-he has a worse save.)

Next round, Wulfen does the same thing, wounding 1.25 wounds, which is .83 through the Inquisitor's 5+. Then the Inquisitor strikes, doing .22 after saves and FNP. The Priest goes for the Inquisitor, .75 wounds, .5 wounds on the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor has now taken just over 1 wound, and probably slays the Wulfen, but then the Wulfen strikes again. .83 more wounds on the Inquisitor, for 2.16 total.

Now, we're down to just a Priest (who's failed EVERY SINGLE WAR HYMN ROLL, I remind you) and an Inquisitor. Inquisitor strikes first, doing 4 attacks, 2.67 hits, 1.33 wounds, .67 wounds. Priest maybe strikes back, dealing .5 more wounds.

So, if the Wulfen charge, it's most likely Mutually Assured Destruction... Assuming the Wulfen priest never, ever makes a War Hymn roll.

If the Assassins charge, they're probably down to I1. Wulfen strike first, with 28 attacks, hitting on 4s rerolling, for 21 hits, wounding on 2s, 17,5 wounds, which is 7.78 after rerollable saves. That leaves 2 assassins, a Priest, and an Inquisitor. The Inquisitor strikes next, 5 attacks, hitting on 4s, rerolling, for 3.75 hits, 1.88 wounds, .94 after saves, .63 after FNP. Priest has 4 attacks, hitting on 4s rerolling, for 3 hits, 1.5 wounds, .75 after saves, and .5 after FNP. Assassins last, with 8 attacks, hitting on 3s, rerolling, 7.11 hits, 4.74 wounds, 3.16 after FNP. That kills two Wulfen, who immediately strike again, for 8 attacks, 6 hits, 5 wounds, 2.22 more dead assassins.

It's now one priest and one Inquisitor versus one priest and five Wulfen. I'm not gonna bother doing math on that-we all know how it'll end.

What's the score with the reduced toughness?

You know, they are a really good unit in combat, not the best, but good, particularly against anything with 3+ or worse armour providing their toughness isn't too high (MC/GMC).

Go ahead and buy several units.

It's ok. We'll wait for the thread about how terrible they are / OP everything else is when you can't get them into combat against anything meaningful...

Fight Murderfang's 12 Armor 9-12 Attacks on a Charge @ STR 7 AP 2 and Wall of Death Overwatch. He's 135 Points, almost half of the DCAs.

Or an Iron Clad Dread or literally any Dreadnought.

 Rommel013 wrote:
Fight Murderfang's 12 Armor 9-12 Attacks on a Charge @ STR 7 AP 2 and Wall of Death Overwatch. He's 135 Points, almost half of the DCAs.

Or an Iron Clad Dread or literally any Dreadnought.

They don't call them Murderclaws for nothing...

3 Fiends and herald on seeker with locus of beguilement + greater + lesser reward. roughly the same cost. first turn I would challenge the inquisitor which should be easy to kill then second turn challenge the priest. (this is on the assumption that deathcult assassins are fearless. If they aren´t then I would switch the challenge order)

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Then he's at more than 175 points. The relic is, what? 20 points? So his squad is at 235 points, more or less?

Edit: That's about 7 Wulfen and a priest. If the Wulfen charge, he gets to strike at Initiative. If the Assassins charge, they're probably striking last.

Anyway, math.

On the charge, the Wulfen will have 35 attacks at S5, for 26.25 hits, 21.88 wounds, 9.72 dead assassins after the rerollable saves (assuming War Hymns FAILED). The assassins will have 30 attacks, hitting on 3s, rerolling, for 26.67 hits, wounding on 3s for 17.78 wounds, which is 11.8 wounds after FNP. That's about 10 dead assassins and 6 dead Wulfen, leaving one Wulfen and Priest on the Wulf side, and one each of an Inquisitor and Priest on the opposition. If we factor in the attacks from the Priest and Inquisitor, they're hitting on 4s, rerolling, for 6 hits, wounding on 4s, for 3 wounds, with a 4+ save, for 1.5 wounds after that, and 1 after FNP. That will wound the last remaining Wulfen. (Oh, and the Wulfen's Priest does 4 attacks, 3 hits, 1.5 wound, .375 wounds on the Priest through his rerollable save.)

Next round, the Wulfen attacks 3 times, hitting 1.5 times, wounding 1.25 times, which is .31 through the Priest's rerollable Rosarius. The Priest is probably slain. Then, the Inquisitor attacks, 4 times, hitting on 4s, for 2 hits, .67 wounds, .33 after saves, and .22 after FNP. The Priest attacks, with 3 attacks, 1.5 hits, .5 wounds, .25 after saves, and .17 after FNP. The Wulfen's Priest attacks, 3 times, 1.5 hits, .75 wounds, .19 wounds after rerollable saves, but this DEFINITELY slays the Priest. (Taking it on the Inquisitor is a bad idea-he has a worse save.)

Next round, Wulfen does the same thing, wounding 1.25 wounds, which is .83 through the Inquisitor's 5+. Then the Inquisitor strikes, doing .22 after saves and FNP. The Priest goes for the Inquisitor, .75 wounds, .5 wounds on the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor has now taken just over 1 wound, and probably slays the Wulfen, but then the Wulfen strikes again. .83 more wounds on the Inquisitor, for 2.16 total.

Now, we're down to just a Priest (who's failed EVERY SINGLE WAR HYMN ROLL, I remind you) and an Inquisitor. Inquisitor strikes first, doing 4 attacks, 2.67 hits, 1.33 wounds, .67 wounds. Priest maybe strikes back, dealing .5 more wounds.

So, if the Wulfen charge, it's most likely Mutually Assured Destruction... Assuming the Wulfen priest never, ever makes a War Hymn roll.

If the Assassins charge, they're probably down to I1. Wulfen strike first, with 28 attacks, hitting on 4s rerolling, for 21 hits, wounding on 2s, 17,5 wounds, which is 7.78 after rerollable saves. That leaves 2 assassins, a Priest, and an Inquisitor. The Inquisitor strikes next, 5 attacks, hitting on 4s, rerolling, for 3.75 hits, 1.88 wounds, .94 after saves, .63 after FNP. Priest has 4 attacks, hitting on 4s rerolling, for 3 hits, 1.5 wounds, .75 after saves, and .5 after FNP. Assassins last, with 8 attacks, hitting on 3s, rerolling, 7.11 hits, 4.74 wounds, 3.16 after FNP. That kills two Wulfen, who immediately strike again, for 8 attacks, 6 hits, 5 wounds, 2.22 more dead assassins.

It's now one priest and one Inquisitor versus one priest and five Wulfen. I'm not gonna bother doing math on that-we all know how it'll end.

What's the score with the reduced toughness?

I did factor that in.