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Made in us
[DCM]
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RazorEdge wrote:
Time for Tiny Marine have come.


AMEN!

TESTIFY BROTHER!!!

LET'S DO THIS!

(And by that, I mean I hope GW/FW do this, ASAP!)

But, if Xenos Titans and Knight equivalents show up first, that would be OK too.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I really hope for Xenos first - now don't get me wrong I love Epic it was my gateway into wargaming (well ok Titan Legions was). So I've a lot of love for that scale of game and GW made great models for it.

But I'd rather see Xenos titans with varied weapons and alternate bodies and all kinds of fancy stuff before we see Epic return. Eldar and Orks had quite a few neat options but I'd love to see Tyranids fleshed out with a range of new titans and titan models; whilst seeing what Tau and Necron could get to bring to the table .

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[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






Reckon we’ll see Epic before Xenos Titans. And I’d like to try to explain my reasoning.

All starts with the reason Adeptus Titanicus is set during the Heresy. From a production point of view, it’s cheaper, and therefore more efficient.

The start up costs for GW are relatively minimal. So far we’ve seen three Titan kits, and two Knight kits. Both are shared across the (admittedly binary) choice of factions. The real variety comes from the Maniple you choose, the Legio specific perks, and of course the weapon loadout. Whichever way you butter it, that’s an appealing prospect.

Now, it all seems to be selling quite nicely. Especially now the Battle Group boxed set offers a decent way in, price wise. It’s also pretty close to rounding out the existing choices. Certainly by the time 2019 is turning to 2020, I do expect the full, initial range to be out there for our gaming delectation.

Xenos Titans? Well, they just don’t have the same wide appeal as the common Imperial marks, because they’re very much a solo affair. If you buy say, an Eldar Maniple? It’s always going to be an Eldar Maniple. And not everyone is all that into Eldar. Same for Orks, and whatever else they conjure up for the remaining species.

Unless.....you keep on following throuch on the ‘Heresy first’ approach, and expanded that to Epic Scale. Same initial benefit. Two for one on your design investment. Keeps it cost effective. And on the off chance gaming tastes have changed, or the Epic rules set don’t tickle people’s fancies (oh HAI Epic 40,000!), that’s a wiser investment, as you likewise keep your losses to an absolute minimum.

But should Epic succeed? That’s when your Xenos armies can start coming into it. Both game systems are well established. And it’s entirely possible your Faithful will be ready for further variety, and therefore primed to try the very different play styles, perks and drawbacks of Xenos forces.

Me? I reckon we’ll get there, in time. Epic and Xenos remain a safer bet than trying an entirely new Specialist Game. They are, if you like, the second lowest of the low hanging fruit of SG’s glorious and well received resurrection.

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Yay, another rehash of the when / if / I really hope they do Epic and this is how I want it that we've seen 26 times in this thread already. Mod sanctioned and encouraged too, what could be better? Some nice ideas of what they'll add to Epic Chaos, that might be good.
   
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Making Stuff






Under the couch

JWBS wrote:
Yay, another rehash of the when / if / I really hope they do Epic and this is how I want it that we've seen 26 times in this thread already. Mod sanctioned and encouraged too, what could be better? Some nice ideas of what they'll add to Epic Chaos, that might be good.

Two things there: for one, yes, news and rumor threads often include discussion of what else people would like to see. That's just the nature of the beast. And just FYI, DCMs are not MODs.

 
   
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Attention to detail isn't just important in war - but it discussions about wargames too!

I hope that when Epic 30K gets launched, they include the Primarchs ANd the Daemon Primarchs (again) too.

Lots of scope for some really fun stuff.

Did any of the recent FW and/or HH events hint at when the resin Titan weapons might be getting released?
   
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[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern






Not to the best of my knowledge.

However, those spotted on the Titans are likely out fairly soon (possibly even tomorrow!), as they very much seem like the finished product.

So that’s, erm, the Quake Cannon, and Warlord Gatling Cannon? I think?

Reaver Carapace Weapons (Vulcan Megabolter and Support Missile) were shown off as resin components, but not, if memory serves, as painted examples. So it strikes me they’ll be out after the Warlord ones?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My mistake. Reaver Carapace Weapons are digital versions at the moment (or at least, that’s all they showed off!)

We’ve got Adepticon coming up in a week or three though, then Warhammerfest beginning of May.

I suspect we’ll have the Warlord stuff by ‘fest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/07 20:57:25


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I have a gut feeling that a new Knight class will be released at the same time as Doom of Molech.

Apparently DOM will have an all-knight battleforce but its hard to see it comprising of just Questoris(Infantry) and Cerastus(fast-melee) classes. The Knight range currently lacks a heavy-fire power option and I'm wondering if the Acastus will be the next knight class to be released, possibly a threat to at least the Warhounds...

Or maybe they will make us super happy and release the Armigers? We could then come up with a "The 3 Worlds of the Reaver battle titan" scenario, where our titular hero is chained to the ground by pixie-like Armigers screaming "we got the bastard!" in their sqeaky voices...

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
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I suspect we won’t see Armiger class until tanks and/or infantry are introduced. That’s their forte, and indeed their purpose.

Against Titans, they’d likely only be a threat to Knights, and be very easily swatted in return.

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I can see the other Cerastus chassis knights arriving with DoM.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
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 Nostromodamus wrote:
I can see the other Cerastus chassis knights arriving with DoM.


I'll drink to that. Afterall, the Cerastus IS on the cover of DoM...

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I suspect we won’t see Armiger class until tanks and/or infantry are introduced. That’s their forte, and indeed their purpose.

Against Titans, they’d likely only be a threat to Knights, and be very easily swatted in return.


Meltagun have S8 in AT and Helverin are potentially the cheapest shield stripper unit out there.
   
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Chopstick wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I suspect we won’t see Armiger class until tanks and/or infantry are introduced. That’s their forte, and indeed their purpose.

Against Titans, they’d likely only be a threat to Knights, and be very easily swatted in return.


Meltagun have S8 in AT and Helverin are potentially the cheapest shield stripper unit out there.


Armigers could be 2 to a base.
I wish the Cerastus had a few more options, not just the lancer though.
I think the Acastus would be the most likely of the current 28mm kits, as they would fill a role of warhound scale firepower on a knight durable chassis. Maybe add a few weapon options as well- the new conversion beamer loadout, maybe a plasma and/or rocket variant.
Or they could add the chassis that became the Slaaneshi Hell-knights.
   
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 MajorWesJanson wrote:


Armigers could be 2 to a base.
I wish the Cerastus had a few more options, not just the lancer though.
I think the Acastus would be the most likely of the current 28mm kits, as they would fill a role of warhound scale firepower on a knight durable chassis. Maybe add a few weapon options as well- the new conversion beamer loadout, maybe a plasma and/or rocket variant.
Or they could add the chassis that became the Slaaneshi Hell-knights.


Perhaps the 2 armigers could be called an "Armiger pack"?

With DoM approaching, I'm wondering if GW will have a value knight box set containing Questoris & Cerastus and a third type...just for those who want House Devine in-a-box.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
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If it isn't an official box (and I hope it is!), they might do a 'one click' version?

But then, those don't usually offer any savings other than the few seconds 'saved' having to click on everything individually yourself!
   
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 Alpharius wrote:
If it isn't an official box (and I hope it is!), they might do a 'one click' version?

But then, those don't usually offer any savings other than the few seconds 'saved' having to click on everything individually yourself!


Indeed, it is so useless that this springs to mind...



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I think a Epic Legio Astartes Range can be made easy with only 2 Sprues for the Start.

Mk4 Space Marine Sprue
-3 Sergeants with different Weapons
-10 Marines with Bolter
-3 Marines with different Special Weapon (for Support Squads)
-3 Marines with different Heavy Weapon (for Devastator Squads)
-2 Rhino Based Tanks (options for Rhino, Predator, Vindicator)

Enough Parts for one Tactical Squad. For Support Squads or Devastator Squads, you need multiple Sprues.

Mk4 Command Sprue
-Multiple Command Models (Captains/Centurions, Librarian, Chaplain, Standard Bearers ect.)
-2 Tartaros Terminator Sergeants with DIfferent Weapons
-8 Tartaros Terminator with Combi-Bolters
-2 Tartaros Terminator with Heavy Weapon
-1 Rhino Based Tank (options for Rhino, Razorback, Command Tank)
-1 Spartan Tank
-1 Fighter

Later there can be other Sprues:

Mk4 Assault Sprue
-Assault Marines
-Bikes

Mk2/3/5 Marine/Command/Assault Sprues

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/09 08:49:55


 
   
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...people knows that the old SM Epic sprue had half a company crammed inside, complete with tacticals, devs, assaults, scouts, termies, bikes, characters and all, right? In a half sized sprue?

Right? Because posts like the above make me wonder.

RazorEdge, everything you have stated would fit inside a single, regular sized sprue. And then some. It's Epic we're talking here, FFS. Unless they make the stuff mroe like 15mm than 6-8, that is. And even then, seeing FoW sprues I'd say eveything you mentioned above except tanks would fit in a single sprue.

I mean... translate this:



Into a modern, current density GW sprue. Those two combined are about the size of a single Blood Bowl or Necromunda sprue.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/03/09 10:10:28


 
   
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But makes no sense in GW Release Logic.

Why should the release a Single Sprue when they can make different ones to Expand the Range and release them from Time to Time to make Money.

See the Weapon Sprues on TItans.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

With the original Epic the armies had one or two plastic sets in a small box. Infantry and vehicles was the normal divide for a major army. Infantry had pretty much all the infantry for the army in one box, whilst the vehicles had the most numerous core. Everything else was sold in metal pretty much save for one or two of the biggest titans (Imperator and Mega Gargant).

There was a huge wealth of tanks and monsters in metal for many of the races; Imperials and Orks had quite a big selection, Imperial Guard a massive number of tank types.

So yeah the core of every army was really cheap to buy into and really easy to get; but the variety that built up around it was where the profit was.



Now things have changed and GW could do most armies on very few sprues with most of the army being in plastic. GW are unlikely to return to metals and likely wouldn't want to do a bulk of the army in resin. Now if they went plastic its unlikely that they are going to be able to sell it the same was as the metals - 3 lemon russ in a set in plastic isn't all that interesting for Epic. Now 30 LemonRuss in a pack at £20 now that's interesting and being in plastic very possible to do.

Epic would be different to how it was released in the past; unless they went for all metal.

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 Overread wrote:
With the original Epic the armies had one or two plastic sets in a small box. Infantry and vehicles was the normal divide for a major army. Infantry had pretty much all the infantry for the army in one box, whilst the vehicles had the most numerous core. Everything else was sold in metal pretty much save for one or two of the biggest titans (Imperator and Mega Gargant).

There was a huge wealth of tanks and monsters in metal for many of the races; Imperials and Orks had quite a big selection, Imperial Guard a massive number of tank types.

So yeah the core of every army was really cheap to buy into and really easy to get; but the variety that built up around it was where the profit was.



Now things have changed and GW could do most armies on very few sprues with most of the army being in plastic. GW are unlikely to return to metals and likely wouldn't want to do a bulk of the army in resin. Now if they went plastic its unlikely that they are going to be able to sell it the same was as the metals - 3 lemon russ in a set in plastic isn't all that interesting for Epic. Now 30 LemonRuss in a pack at £20 now that's interesting and being in plastic very possible to do.

Epic would be different to how it was released in the past; unless they went for all metal.



I think 30 leman russes for £20 Is a bit optimistic sadly.
I'd imagine 5 with kit options at that price.
Look at the knights kit.
3 terminator sized models, barely any options - £20
Cerastus knights are a bit bigger but no options for the same £20.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love 30 russes for that price, but I just don't see it.


The biggest issue with GW doing epic again is their prices.
There are a ton of 3rd party companies that have been going for ages that would be priced better than GW.

I'd love for GW to prove me wrong as a cheaper source of epic models would be amazing (rather than cruising eBay daily to find stuff)
   
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RazorEdge wrote:
But makes no sense in GW Release Logic.

Why should the release a Single Sprue when they can make different ones to Expand the Range and release them from Time to Time to make Money.

See the Weapon Sprues on TItans.

See the sprue size of the titans. What you're stating would have trouble to fill a character's sprue. I don't think they would go for that size of sprue.

I could see it for an all-resin FW rleease, though. But if they go that way, IMHO it would be DOA, at least for me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/09 13:55:47


 
   
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

If they do it, they'll probably do "themed" plastic boxes like, say, a "Legion Tactical Company" with say 60 bolter guys including a character with 6 Rhinos, or else do a "Legion Infantry Company" with loads of bolter guys, some support squad guys etc and do a separate box of Rhinos that can also be assembled as Predators, maybe a clampack-size sprue or two with character models.

Either way, it won't have the value proposition Epic used to have, they'll aim it firmly at the "playing 50,000 point games of Age of Darkness is really inconvenient" crowd who'll happily stump up 500+ quid for an army.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/03/09 20:54:47


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Rampton, UK

Yea I think that the larger vehicles could fit in with AT rules but I don't see how anything much smaller would fit in as seamlessly unless its done as groups of bikes / speeders or whatever.


Either way as long as it eventually comes I will be a happy chap as will many others by the looks of this thread repeating itself over and over again ( not that I care, its not like there is anything else to discuss just yet )

   
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Well, even if they don't have rules, little marines make for very cool basing materials
Spoiler:

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/09 19:45:05


 
   
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 Albertorius wrote:
Well, even if they don't have rules, little marines make for very cool basing materials
Spoiler:



That, at least, would be welcome. They already included a tank on one of the FW boards so some base decorations for the Titans could be a possibility. It would help to reinforce the scale of the game with a marine or two underneath the Knights and Titans...

I think Adeptus Titanicus might keep to just large mechs and the Heresy-era for a three year stretch and then release a 2nd edition of the game that brings it into the 40K era and will include xenos. Lets face it, with 3 years feedback from gamers it will be time to update the core rules and we'll likely see pretty much all there is to see from Imperial-traitor forces, and adding Orks and Eldar would probably keep things managable. The Orks would be numerous, clumsy & brutal, the Eldar few but technologically advanced & graceful. Imperials would be the middle ground...

Adding smaller units such as infantry, artiliary and tanks would risk Titanicus becoming a combined-arms game rather than the mech-sim it started off as. GW made Titanicus for those who have an obsession with Titans and Knights( generally Forgeworld customers ) - some of their collections of entire 40K Banners and Maniples are gobsmacking, and it leaves little wonder as to who is keeping this game afloat. One has to ask - why risk upsetting that audience by turning the game into a different product? Other races would merely bring in new players who don't have much love for Imperials, while a separate game for mass armies( which could re-use models from Titanicus ) would be a safer option.

Although thats looking ahead years, there could - in the meantime - be a small limited-release game in the 8mm scale. Given the popularity of X-Wing, could there not be a game with fliers? GW have already done a flier-based game(stormcloud attack) in the 28mm scale, so a smaller scale version - with the intention to reuse the models for later games - could be feasable.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
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IIRC Aeronautica Imperialis predated X-Wing, and was inspired by Wings of Glory.
   
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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
IIRC Aeronautica Imperialis predated X-Wing, and was inspired by Wings of Glory.


Ah-haaaaaa! Said Alan Partridge.

I didn't know about Aeronautica( released during my long abscence from table-top gaming ) but it was - apparently - a companion to the Epic 40K gaming system reusing models an'all. Not sure what the reception was like for that one but its interesting to know that such a game was released previously....

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How big would Armigers be in AT scale? GSC human size or grots?


Seeing all the very expressive tiny trolls (sorry, "Troggoths"), snotlings, snails, shroom squigs on the Gloomspite sprues, Nurglings, familiars and stuff nowadays and the comments about the sculptors loving to do those tiny models gives me hope for plastic Epic minis soon-ish.

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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
IIRC Aeronautica Imperialis predated X-Wing, and was inspired by Wings of Glory.


Really beautiful rulebooks and some good rules

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