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 lord_blackfang wrote:

changemod wrote:
Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.

Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?

GW has been retconning in new units that have always been there for like 15 years man

Exactly. I much prefer it that way. Like when they created the Leman Russ Executioner, it wasn't a case of "This is brand new. There's a guy called Dellisarius Tall, and he invented it, and he's invented loads more stuff, and that's why you have a model of it". No, they just said the Executioner is a variant of the LR, and it's been around forever, and the galaxy is a big place and history is a long time and that's why you're only just seeing it now, and we accepted that because that was better. 40K is just straight up better as a setting than as a storyline.

Did they say what the silver think on the right shin guard (as we look at the screen) is?

I know the scale is off, but it makes be think of a massive incense burner...

Brutal-looking machine, though - how tall do y'all think it'll be, aside from the AA guns?

I think the retcons are something you just have to accept when reading fiction based on a expanding product line. It even happens with supposedly new things like the Primaris, as anything outside there first wave is notably absent from even recent stories.
But even the original AT background noted that the Warhound, Reaver and Warlord were just the most common Titan types.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Absolutely love the Warmaster, shame about the name though as we already have Warhound, Warlord and Warbringer, wouldn't kill GW to think of something a bit more original.

In the dark future of the 41st millennium there is only war!

GoatboyBeta wrote:

But even the original AT background noted that the Warhound, Reaver and Warlord were just the most common Titan types.

We even had some known missing titans with the scout titans that were the pre-cursors of the very light Slaaneshi models (and that still aren't in the game).

I'm ambivalent about this new titan, but mostly because I'm not sure that the game needs something that's even slower than the Warlord.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Absolutely love the Warmaster, shame about the name though as we already have Warhound, Warlord and Warbringer, wouldn't kill GW to think of something a bit more original.

As for the model however, love it. I agree that it may be better to just simplify the additional weapons into an Ardex-like system. I still doubt they'll eventually release an Imperator however.

On another note, the Warmaster's head on the Loyalist Legios book seems to be different from either of the ones previewed today. I know the previous kits have come with two head designs but not three, are GW giving a hint that there may be different variants of the Warmaster in the future?

The box image shows it's a Warmaster with a specific loadout, which tends to imply there will be another variant in the future (though we're still missing Volcano Warbringer).

Edit - Also just noticed the book shows two laser cannons instead of a launcher for the armpit weapons!

Yeah its been like that for decades and most wargames are the same. Heck if you read BL books there are loads of things that get mentioned which never appear in any of their games all the time. What we see and what we read common stories about are the most common things present in the setting; which doesn't mean that there are not vast legions fighting on hundreds of worlds with different weapons that we've yet to see.

If you don't learn to accept that you'll go nuts with almost any wargame because they all follow that same path of releasing things years if not decades (for the long runners) after launch which have "always been in the setting" just unseen until that time.

 Dysartes wrote:

Brutal-looking machine, though - how tall do y'all think it'll be, aside from the AA guns?

I estimate it would be between 15 - 16.5cm tall.

Incidentally, the trailer is titled "Attack of the 134ft titan". 134ft approximately equals 41 meters.

Assuming a 2 meter tall space marine would be represented by a 8mm tall model (remember the "scale" discussion that emerged when AT was relaunched in 2018), 41 meters would translate into 164mm.

Curious to see if this holds and if my reasoning earlier in the thread is correct.

Eager to get my hands on the model, the sooner the cooler!

Looks good, not amazing, but not bad. The Legio cover head is definitely better imo.

I think it's going to be a decent bit taller than a 40K Knight, even a Castellan style one, and roughly as wide (making it appear a little more slender)




Price maybe around £100 gwrp if we're lucky? Maybe a touch over that (hopefully not over £110. The Gargant at £120 was a disappointment to almost everyone, but that being said, this will probably be larger than a Gargant, which is actually smaller than a Castellan).

Love the Warmaster, but the one thing I'm not crazy about is the paired plasma guns. Hoping there's another arm in the box or some choices, two of the same weapon just isn't as visually interesting, especially when it's oversized plasma-coils as that's my least favorite weapon look.

 Prometheum5 wrote:
Love the Warmaster, but the one thing I'm not crazy about is the paired plasma guns. Hoping there's another arm in the box or some choices, two of the same weapon just isn't as visually interesting, especially when it's oversized plasma-coils as that's my least favorite weapon look.

I always paint plasma coils in copper, like they’re conductive material that directs the “flow” of the plasma. I always find the bright blue “this is plasma!” look a bit jarring.

axotl wrote:

Edit - Also just noticed the book shows two laser cannons instead of a launcher for the armpit weapons!

Those aren't las-cannons; they are Turbo Laser Destructors.

I wonder if this is the siege titan from titandeath, and the other loadout is melee

Plasma weapon has the shortest range among all arm guns of big titans

changemod wrote:
Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.

Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?

This surprised me a little as well. GW and FW have been leaving breadcrumbs about other Titans all throughout their books. Some are probably throw-away one-offs just to make the universe seem bigger, but there are consistent mentions of some Titan classes (the Rapier is mentioned pretty regularly). The Warmaster, as far as I know, is not one of them. Seems a bit of a surprise that something this big hasn't been mentioned at all!

Still, I am not complaining. Looking for logic in the wartorn darkness of the 41st millennium kinda sucks the fun out of of a ridiculous made-up world where giant robots kick the snot out of each other. Perhaps, lots of people saw it and it was further away then they thought and ended up believing it was just a runty Warbringer and never recorded it.

I'm happy there is a new model!

I think I figured out what bothers me about the Warmaster: lack of carapace swoop.

With the other classes we saw no carapace (Warhound), just a shelll (Reaver), or hardpoints mounted on a beetle-like carapace (Warbringer and Warlord).

I may need to find a way to mod the carapace with a little more flair. Maybe enlongated cooling towers to the rear?

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:
Love the Warmaster, but the one thing I'm not crazy about is the paired plasma guns. Hoping there's another arm in the box or some choices, two of the same weapon just isn't as visually interesting, especially when it's oversized plasma-coils as that's my least favorite weapon look.

I always paint plasma coils in copper, like they’re conductive material that directs the “flow” of the plasma. I always find the bright blue “this is plasma!” look a bit jarring.

That is exactly what I do. The blue glow completely ruins the scale look. I keep the copper just for plasma coils so they stand out from gold or brass bits.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
It has different armpit-guns too; looks like Warhound turbolasers to me. One of the silhouettes in the video also had different main guns, some sort of triple-barrelled monstrosity.
So definitely another variant out there…

Ah ok the missile launchers being apocalypse missile launchers makes more sense of the overall design and thus lack of large shoulder guns.

In effect the Warmaster Titan mounts five “Titan weapon” slots, but avoids having the fourth and fifth be quite as large as they could be in order for them to share space with defensive anti-air platforms to ward off things like say, the Manta. Theoretically without the anti air taking up space those guns could have been Warlord arm guns.

It’s interesting, makes me wonder what they’re going to do with the cathedral atop the Imperator when they do it... And make no mistake, going by current artwork of imperators standing next to Warlords, the Warmaster is absolutely around the same size when you don’t include the spires.

It’s always been a very strange design from an offensive standpoint- None of the guns mounted on a Imperator’s cathedral seem to be even the size of warhound arm weaponry.

I always just told myself that the two main Imperator weapons together are the equal of four Warlod weapons, plus then you have a couple of warhound sized weapons up top and several smaller guns scattered around elsewhere (crotch, knees, back) making the Imperator a lot more powerful than a WL even before considering the troop capacity and other logistical stuff included with the Imperator.

I suspect the Imperator carapace weapons will change. Though I do hope it keeps the AA volcano cannon!

changemod wrote:
Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.

Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?

Ugh - conceptualizing the addition of new stuff as "retcons" is how we ended up with nu40K and AoS where everything they add to the games is brand-new and plot advancing, and the whole thing just becomes an endless treadmill where a cool addition only seems to exist with any focus for a brief moment before the next dozen new things have come along and the cool thing is barely mentioned again(because why would they, if you were going to buy it you would have at the time, and now they want you to buy the new thing).

The framing for the setting was supposed to be the idea of an ever-expanding window - we could see into this other world, but only part of it, and only the bits within the field of view that were in focus. When they "added" "new" things they were simply revealing parts of the setting that had always been there. Of course, you can cock up with that concept just as easily as with any other, but in principle it works perfectly fine.

As to Senor Chonkus - I like it a lot. I'd absolutely love it if it were more in the Warbringer/Warlord size range, but they've brought that old Jes concept sketch into the modern design language pretty flawlessly IMO. Whether I buy one or not...eh. I'd have to rewrite my fluff as I've said before, and planning & executing a couple of organ harvesting murders to fund the thing is a lot of effort...

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:
Love the Warmaster, but the one thing I'm not crazy about is the paired plasma guns. Hoping there's another arm in the box or some choices, two of the same weapon just isn't as visually interesting, especially when it's oversized plasma-coils as that's my least favorite weapon look.

I always paint plasma coils in copper, like they’re conductive material that directs the “flow” of the plasma. I always find the bright blue “this is plasma!” look a bit jarring.

That is exactly what I do. The blue glow completely ruins the scale look. I keep the copper just for plasma coils so they stand out from gold or brass bits.

That's an entirely valid approach, but the blue glow thing isn't impossible or wrong in-scale, it could be something akin to Chernekov radiation:

From memory, the gun on the tallest spire on top of an Imperator should be a Defense Laser - i.e, an anti-spaceship weapon...

Tavis75 wrote:
I so hope they do a 40k scale version as I think there could be some really nice details tucked away in that body, so much stuff going on! Though admittedly, the price is likely to be horrific, could imagine it easily hitting the £2k mark!

How big would that be...?

 Yodhrin wrote:

changemod wrote:
Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.

Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?

Ugh - conceptualizing the addition of new stuff as "retcons" is how we ended up with nu40K and AoS where everything they add to the games is brand-new and plot advancing, and the whole thing just becomes an endless treadmill where a cool addition only seems to exist with any focus for a brief moment before the next dozen new things have come along and the cool thing is barely mentioned again(because why would they, if you were going to buy it you would have at the time, and now they want you to buy the new thing).

The framing for the setting was supposed to be the idea of an ever-expanding window - we could see into this other world, but only part of it, and only the bits within the field of view that were in focus. When they "added" "new" things they were simply revealing parts of the setting that had always been there. Of course, you can cock up with that concept just as easily as with any other, but in principle it works perfectly fine.

As to Senor Chonkus - I like it a lot. I'd absolutely love it if it were more in the Warbringer/Warlord size range, but they've brought that old Jes concept sketch into the modern design language pretty flawlessly IMO. Whether I buy one or not...eh. I'd have to rewrite my fluff as I've said before, and planning & executing a couple of organ harvesting murders to fund the thing is a lot of effort...

As I was Trying to communicate, a fifth (or sixth) “common” Titan pattern would be a change on an extremely large scale that’s kinda weird in context of existing fiction. You kinda notice when a Warhound walks past way more than you notice that “oh gosh, some of those marines had gravity guns this whole time!”

You’re the second person who’s gone “Ugh it’s a setting not a story”, and frankly I agree? Of course treating 40k as if it’s one big story is how we get incoherent gibberish like Abaddon cutting the entire galaxy in half. And that’s the angle I was coming from because I am concerned with sufficiently large breaches of setting consistency as to take me out of things for a moment.

So yeah, I was wanting to know if this never before seen Titan type was an infrequent anomaly or a semi common mainline unit that it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.

The thing that excited me most about the reveal was seeing Legio Metalica on the book cover art. I was surprised that we'd got this long without them getting rules considering they did transfer sheets a while back. Pleased to see my chosen faction of god-engines getting a bit of attention!

The Warmaster, I'm not quite sure what I think of it yet, but that's okay because it's also what I expected. Generally new titan designs need to bounce around my head for a little while before I warm up to them. The Warbringer was the same, and I can remember when FW first launched the Reaver and I thought it looked silly - and nowadays I absolutely love them. I certainly think the head shown on the book cover art looks better than the two painted variants that they've shown us, and it would go a long way towards making the model look right for me, so I hope you get that head in the kit. On the whole though, very pleased that they're expanding out into new titan classes, and I hope to see a few more.

 jeff white wrote:

Tavis75 wrote:
I so hope they do a 40k scale version as I think there could be some really nice details tucked away in that body, so much stuff going on! Though admittedly, the price is likely to be horrific, could imagine it easily hitting the £2k mark!

How big would that be...?

Wrap your baby brother/infant child in tinfoil as a proxy…

I'm not actually sure if the Warmaster rules are going to be in the Loyalist legios book. It seems to be just a compilation of the Loyalist rules (hopefully they will include and reprint the loyalist strategems and titans of legend in there)

There's no mention of any new rules or maniples which would include this new beast (hopefully they call them heavy maniples, so Myrmadon gets some company. And Extermigus really should have been one)

Another potential is that the Heretic compendium will come out later alongside the Belicosa warbringer so that variant is released.

changemod wrote:

So yeah, I was wanting to know if this never before seen Titan type was an infrequent anomaly or a semi common mainline unit that it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.

You wrote a whole post saying you understand the need for a setting with necessary imaginative leeway and then in the last two lines you've essentially said "Also I want retcons". I don't get it.

Tavis75 wrote:
I so hope they do a 40k scale version as I think there could be some really nice details tucked away in that body, so much stuff going on! Though admittedly, the price is likely to be horrific, could imagine it easily hitting the £2k mark!

Just looking again at the point defence weapons in the chest, just assumed they were lascannons, but looking closely, they actually appear to be battlecannons!

I hope not in 40k scale for a while. My custom cabinet just fits a warlord, this monster would be too big. And looking at the legs, they look to include some of the most annoying elements of the Reaver and Warbringer, plus the new internal supports. Wonder if it has a rear patio like the warlord?