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 MarsNZ wrote:


Actually for me it was the presence of the Necrons, GW takes every opportunity they can to hamfist Necrons into every major galactic event. Doesn't help that I dislike almost everything about that faction in the first place.

The necrons in general are just awful. What was wrong with mysterious robots that want to kill everyone?

 Exergy wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:


Actually for me it was the presence of the Necrons, GW takes every opportunity they can to hamfist Necrons into every major galactic event. Doesn't help that I dislike almost everything about that faction in the first place.

The necrons in general are just awful. What was wrong with mysterious robots that want to kill everyone?

Agreed. I just headcanon the entirety of Newcrons out of existance. As far as i'm concerned that's all imperial propaganda and ignorance.

Except Anrakyr and the Maynarkh dynasty. They're neat.

Oh, i do like the C'Tan shards thing too. I'm a firm believer that godlike figures belong in the history of 40k. The C'Tan being fragments of their former power fits for me.

Other than that. Lies and ignorance.

Most newcron fluff is Meh, but the easily entertained lizard half of my brain loves Trayzin.

The "Reverse Waaagh" plot device from The Beast Arises really ticks me off. because it completely invalidates an entire species. The Newcron fluff isn't great for the most part, but I don't find it awful enough to dislike.

5th ed DE codex.
I think Kelly wrote it?

Made them out to be able to:
Capture sub fleets of Nids wholesale for their arenas
Manipulate entire worlds for their doing
Their species could 1 vs 1 best "anyone"
Commoragh was literally Nassau (Pirate HQ during the 1800s) - not a bad idea per se being honest. But if so unbelievably metropolis, why not just rush everything in the known Galaxy?
Vect holding back some ultra (daemon?) force?
Vect. Fullstop. Marines are Mary Sue? lulz

Pfff, Im outtie, a true trainwreck of fluff.

But second Newcron and reverse Waagh as seconds. gak writing that should never got past a competent editor.

 Exergy wrote:

 MarsNZ wrote:


Actually for me it was the presence of the Necrons, GW takes every opportunity they can to hamfist Necrons into every major galactic event. Doesn't help that I dislike almost everything about that faction in the first place.

The necrons in general are just awful. What was wrong with mysterious robots that want to kill everyone?

While the older fluff was probably a bit better, I still couldn't stand it back then either. Metal Tyranids and star eating blankets... Woooo

Almost every Chaos story leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth, the general stories aren't so bad and I love a lot of them but it is so disappointing when the endings all just boil down to a Deus ex Machina Imperial victory with the faint wiff of 'Just as planned' thrown in so they can deny never giving chaos a real victory.

Chaos fanboy rant over.

Lelith Hesperax as a witch queen with actual psychic powers, devout of Slaanesh who lives in the Eye of Terror.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Almost every Chaos story leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth, the general stories aren't so bad and I love a lot of them but it is so disappointing when the endings all just boil down to a Deus ex Machina Imperial victory with the faint wiff of 'Just as planned' thrown in so they can deny never giving chaos a real victory.

Chaos fanboy rant over.

It sucks when you have to play the long game due to Plot Armour - I wonder if any Dark Library writers have the skill to write in and write out a "Patsy System"?

Anything where the Imperium is written so badly into a corner that there's no way it could possibly win, then suddenly and without any reasoning at all some magic mcguffin is remembered or found and they win for no reason. Generally the turn around is maybe 3-4 sentences long as well. It's not even the Imperials winning, it's just how they make a reasonably alright story then go "lol no" at the end and leave it so anti-climatic just so the status quo is kept up.

It's as if whoever was editing the story went "oh gak the imperials lost, better fix it!".

In general I hate the hero worship that goes on in 40k as of late. In a setting where millions if not potentially billions die in a single planetary battle and there are weapons that can destroy all life from orbit. It just seems off having these named characters who always seem to be at the important set piece battles and are unbeatable except by other highly important named characters. A plasma gun, melta gun, lascannon, plasma cannon, railgun, etc doesn't care for your plot armor and if it can melt through the armor of a battle tank then its good enough to put down whatever Mary Sue character who isn't even wearing a helmet while leading from the front like an idiot.

 Vankraken wrote:
In general I hate the hero worship that goes on in 40k as of late. In a setting where millions if not potentially billions die in a single planetary battle and there are weapons that can destroy all life from orbit. It just seems off having these named characters who always seem to be at the important set piece battles and are unbeatable except by other highly important named characters. A plasma gun, melta gun, lascannon, plasma cannon, railgun, etc doesn't care for your plot armor and if it can melt through the armor of a battle tank then its good enough to put down whatever Mary Sue character who isn't even wearing a helmet while leading from the front like an idiot.

The very reason that most of them are considered heroes is that they've gone above and beyond what was expected of them, and have lived through battles and wounds that should have killed them outright. They're alive against the odds, either due to their skill as a warrior, their excellent leadership or incredible luck, or all three.

In a setting where billions die in a single planetary battle, and weapons can destroy all life from orbit, and all the other countless terrors such as material Daemons, there would surely be countless proving grounds for heroes to rise.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
In general I hate the hero worship that goes on in 40k as of late. In a setting where millions if not potentially billions die in a single planetary battle and there are weapons that can destroy all life from orbit. It just seems off having these named characters who always seem to be at the important set piece battles and are unbeatable except by other highly important named characters. A plasma gun, melta gun, lascannon, plasma cannon, railgun, etc doesn't care for your plot armor and if it can melt through the armor of a battle tank then its good enough to put down whatever Mary Sue character who isn't even wearing a helmet while leading from the front like an idiot.

The very reason that most of them are considered heroes is that they've gone above and beyond what was expected of them, and have lived through battles and wounds that should have killed them outright. They're alive against the odds, either due to their skill as a warrior, their excellent leadership or incredible luck, or all three.

In a setting where billions die in a single planetary battle, and weapons can destroy all life from orbit, and all the other countless terrors such as material Daemons, there would surely be countless proving grounds for heroes to rise.

Perhaps but heroes are made after the dusts settles and you see who is left standing. They tend to not continue being living heroes charging in first time and time again. Again the issue is how plot dependent they become where only the heroes can do anything while everyone else are nameless mooks who die by the bucket load.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Space Wolves - Space Vikings - ok - thats cool - no now its McWolfy Wolf Wolf on his Wolf with his Wolf sword and Wolf necklace howling like a Wolf

Lol I never liked them before, but since wulfen came out they are among my favourite armies. I hate space marines and their vehicles, so I would only go with wulfen, wolves, thunderwolves and viking looking marines. Drop pods only transport that I can accept.

About what piece of 40k fluff do I hate the most? Pretty much everything about human factions, with the exception of the wolves, of course. I can't stand daemons as I don't see them as a sci-fi army, they should belong only to the fantasy game.

 Vankraken wrote:
Perhaps but heroes are made after the dusts settles and you see who is left standing. They tend to not continue being living heroes charging in first time and time again. Again the issue is how plot dependent they become where only the heroes can do anything while everyone else are nameless mooks who die by the bucket load.

A lot of Imperial Guard lore would disagree with that idea; while heroes are often formed in the newly created Veterans that are left over in the aftermath of a battle, they typically don't stop there, and go on to have long careers of death defying service. Even the mighty heroes of the Imperial Guard like Yarrick or Straken have paid the price in the past for going against opponents that are too strong for them.

I also remember a bit of lore in the 6th ed rulebook regarding a Cadian infantry squad being responsible for a significant number of Chaos Space Marine kills on their own; stuff like that happens in the background, so that the focus goes onto the more developed characters. However, these heroes are often saved by the linemen that they lead into battle.

Perhaps more recent lore has not been done in a similar vein, but that should be how you bring focus to individuals, and has been the case in the past, with many heroic individuals saving a bunch of nameless people, while in turn a bunch of nameless people save that heroic individual.

 Vankraken wrote:
In general I hate the hero worship that goes on in 40k as of late. In a setting where millions if not potentially billions die in a single planetary battle and there are weapons that can destroy all life from orbit. It just seems off having these named characters who always seem to be at the important set piece battles and are unbeatable except by other highly important named characters. A plasma gun, melta gun, lascannon, plasma cannon, railgun, etc doesn't care for your plot armor and if it can melt through the armor of a battle tank then its good enough to put down whatever Mary Sue character who isn't even wearing a helmet while leading from the front like an idiot.

This. It's a problem I've had with 40k for a long time. It clashes with my dudes. It's also downright silly in contrast to every time a special character gets obliderated on the table top.

The death of the Firehowlers... Yes, I'm still bitter about that.

Well theres so much to choose from, pretty much anything Ward touched sets a pretty low bar. But it is all trash really but at least at first it during rt/1ed it had a sense of fun it all went off a cliff when it got srs bisns grim dark.

ADB is the high point of 40k fluff/stories helsreach is very good much better than it should have been given the story and honestly he is way to good to be writing for black libarary.

I think the Cain books are massively overated knock offs of flashman and while funny in places probably stand out due to most other 40k fiction being turgid gabage.

I know it is probably heresy but the Gaunt books are rubbish as well they are better written than most others but still rubbish that fails to transcend the works they are "influenced" by such as sharpe and the old ww1 set comics such as charlies war.

epronovost wrote:
Lelith Hesperax as a witch queen with actual psychic powers, devout of Slaanesh who lives in the Eye of Terror.

Wait, what?

Did I miss something, is this the new fluff?

Space Marine 'Victories'. Don't get me wrong, I like marines as much as the next person, in fact they're all I collect so far, but the endless litany of Space Marine victories gets a bit stale after a while. I get they're heroes, I get they do things the average mortal can only dream of, but sometimes it's more believable to hear about the simple dock worker who gets press-ganged in Helsreach and then goes on to become a hardened veteran just by mere chance. In truth, one of the most enjoyable 40k books I've read recently has been 'rebirth' by Nick Kyme - precisely because the Salamanders don't win - they get their a**es kicked and I find myself eager to find out how they'll win next time. Similarly, I enjoyed Rynns World because the Crimson Fists get just about wiped out and have a hard time holding out.

On the topic of straight up fluff - I dislike how Space Marines are portrayed as 'Strike Forces' with surgical precision, 'The Emperor's scalpel' type of stuff, when the majority of their actions in fluff and books are in fact drawn out campaigns. You may as well just drop the pretense and call them what they are - shock troops, which is a much broader term encompassing just about all forms of SM warfare.

Another newcron hater here. I loved the relentless silent machine coming to get you vibe of th oldcrons, their mystery and unknowable motivations. That was ace, and dark and scary. The new stuff is just pants.

I wasn't around in the Wardian years having stopped 40k in 1997 and only started again last year. However, the humour was gone. The fluff use to be funny no I wish it still was.

 morganfreeman wrote:

epronovost wrote:
Lelith Hesperax as a witch queen with actual psychic powers, devout of Slaanesh who lives in the Eye of Terror.

Wait, what?

Did I miss something, is this the new fluff?

If memory serves, that is related to a C.S. Goto book, part of the Dawn of War series' novelization. For a humorous take on it, see the 1d4chan C.S. Goto page.

 morganfreeman wrote:

epronovost wrote:
Lelith Hesperax as a witch queen with actual psychic powers, devout of Slaanesh who lives in the Eye of Terror.

Wait, what?

Did I miss something, is this the new fluff?

C.S Goto brought this up in a the Deathwatch anthology shortly after the revival of the Dark Eldars. It's not so surpising. Goto was well known for not reading source material and plagiarising. He got droped by Black Library because of this.

Simple.

Chapters being a mere 1,000 Marines.

How many stories have we read where Companies are nearly wiped out? It happens on a regular basis. Yet the Chapter always endures.

Make them 10,000 strong, and it's more believable

I'm a major Guard and CSM fan, so over the top SM victories do frustrate me a little. If they're going to happen, can we at least have them happen like in Helsreach, were the SM are helped by Guard, Sisters, Titans, and the Orks almost win anyway.
Also, as someone who got into 40k from Dawn of War, I much prefer old Necron fluff. Cain is actually pretty good for that.

Probably a whole lot more, but I can't think of much right now.

Orks and chaos being punching bags to show how tough space marines are.

Also poke ball necrons. How can anyone say they like new necron, the guy litterally catches people in pokeballs. And float around space talking about what they use to own.

I choose you a Angron-mon the Marines will be really screwed when's he evolves to angronsaurus.

Jokeroos.

I'll second the one about the small size of Space Marine chapters. It's always been hard to accept. 1000 space marines, good as they are, aren't going to be able to do much against an entire planet with millions of soldiers, or a hive fleet, or pretty much anything. And there are stories where whole companies get wiped out, but they're always full strength again right away to fight the next thing.

Albino Squirrel wrote:
I'll second the one about the small size of Space Marine chapters. It's always been hard to accept. 1000 space marines, good as they are, aren't going to be able to do much against an entire planet with millions of soldiers, or a hive fleet, or pretty much anything. And there are stories where whole companies get wiped out, but they're always full strength again right away to fight the next thing.

Agreed. I just wave that away as being Imperial ignorance/disinformation. Makes so much more sense if they're actually 100,000 strong.

First: Captain Cortez getting offed/disappeared in the fluff because an Aussie WE contributor lost a game.

Second: the Tau going from altruistic Socialists to mind controlling tools because grimdark. A little light is needed, just like the Bretonnians pre 6th.

Third: the extremely patronizing bit in the 5th rd. Marine book stating that every Marine that isn't an Ultramarine wishes they WERE an Ultramarine, even founding legions.

I am sure I could find more, but this is the top 3.