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I think the worst part for me is the way that the religious parts of the imperium gets only a token mention.

There is alot of potential in exploring the faith and interpretations of the ecchlisiarchy, but Games workshop never seems to do anything with it.

Maybe they dont want to touch religious themes more than absolutely necessary.

 doktor_g wrote:
Jokeroos.

Oh damn I just read their fluff, was curious about what the hell that was. It's even worse than the Ork psychic thing.

 Boneville wrote:
I think the worst part for me is the way that the religious parts of the imperium gets only a token mention.

There is alot of potential in exploring the faith and interpretations of the ecchlisiarchy, but Games workshop never seems to do anything with it.

Maybe they dont want to touch religious themes more than absolutely necessary.

Yeah there's a ton of untapped potential there.

I remember reading someone's idea for an Imperial Faith that's centred around an Aztec-like culture of human sacrifice to the Emperor. Things like that would absolutely fly as far as the Imperium's concerned as so long as they're worshipping Big E they don't really mind, but there's so much potential for grimdark religious cults

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Boneville wrote:
I think the worst part for me is the way that the religious parts of the imperium gets only a token mention.

There is alot of potential in exploring the faith and interpretations of the ecchlisiarchy, but Games workshop never seems to do anything with it.

Maybe they dont want to touch religious themes more than absolutely necessary.

Yeah there's a ton of untapped potential there.

I remember reading someone's idea for an Imperial Faith that's centred around an Aztec-like culture of human sacrifice to the Emperor. Things like that would absolutely fly as far as the Imperium's concerned as so long as they're worshipping Big E they don't really mind, but there's so much potential for grimdark religious cults

it's why it's so tragic that the 40k RPGs are, for the foreseeable future done. FFG had some amazing material for that stuff

OgreChubbs wrote:
Orks and chaos being punching bags to show how tough space marines are.

Also poke ball necrons. How can anyone say they like new necron, the guy litterally catches people in pokeballs. And float around space talking about what they use to own.

I choose you a Angron-mon the Marines will be really screwed when's he evolves to angronsaurus.

I find current Necron background is far more interesting.

Yes, there's the odd silly element - but still superior to 'C'Tan did it' being the be-all-and-end-all.

The Necron's now have a tragedy all their own. They're the living embodiment of the pyrrhic victory. And all their leaders are irrevocably insane. Sure, for some it's more pronounced and obvious (Nemesor Zandrekh), but they've all more than a little moon-touched. And they don't recognised that in themselves.

Trazyn's collection is his mania manifesting. You call it 'poke-balls', and I see the similarity, but that undermines it somewhat. He's a collector - one so aloof and removed from the living Galaxy he just wanders about like an old lady at a flea-market looking for interesting knick-knacks and wot-nots.

Before, they were all just mindless, characterless automata, at the beck and call of not-particularly-interesting gods. Dull as dishwater that.

But, to each their own

I dont get why everyone is hating on the new books. I think they are amazing. Especially since the 40k lore has been stagnating over the past few years.

I just think a lot of people have way to much problems with accepting change...

disagree all you want, i dont care, but i think this will do this hobby a lot of good.

I cant say i realy hate anything though. Yeah sure, i like some stuff better than other but everyone has that.

The only thing i actually might dislike is retconning. Just stick with what you have please and build from there. If you have the imagination to create new lore you also have the imagination to build from lore you dont like..

The retcons to the Horus Heresy introduced by the new novel series of the same name.

Some are minor annoyances (Mortarion's motivation and relationship to the Heresy/daemons). Some are game breaking (involving the Ultramarines at all).

Joyboozer wrote:
Konrad Curze allowing himself to be killed by an assassin. It's the one thing I always think of from 40k as being something I'd prefer they handled differently and was made pointless as we never saw how it effected the Emperor.

I like this. Curze was insane in the end, he had moments where his mind was clear, but they were far and few between. He thought he had to die that way, to give his life purpose. Though the middle finger for the emperor was a pointless gesture, only followed because his visions interpreted by insanity told him too.
Plus he hated his Legion, his existence, his past, his future and his present. There wasn't much reason for him to go on, and he had a reason to stop.
I like he let the assassin to kill him, and that he ordered the Legion to not stop the assassin from leaving with his head, knowing that Talos would try to chase the assassin down anyway.
Really shows the helplessness of the Legion.

One piece of fluff that isn't my most hated piece of fluff but irks me for some reason that I can't understand, can't really justify, but irrationally dislike for reasons unknown is the bit of fluff in the (either Skitarii or CultMech) codex about how all soldiers from any loyal forge world must have some red on their markings to show their loyalty to Mars. Again, I included it not because I hate it a lot, but because I can't understand why I hate it.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
One piece of fluff that isn't my most hated piece of fluff but irks me for some reason that I can't understand, can't really justify, but irrationally dislike for reasons unknown is the bit of fluff in the (either Skitarii or CultMech) codex about how all soldiers from any loyal forge world must have some red on their markings to show their loyalty to Mars. Again, I included it not because I hate it a lot, but because I can't understand why I hate it.

Maybe because it limits your colour scheme choices ? I painted mine blue and tan, the only red is on the purity seals. They ain't traitors any much.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
One piece of fluff that isn't my most hated piece of fluff but irks me for some reason that I can't understand, can't really justify, but irrationally dislike for reasons unknown is the bit of fluff in the (either Skitarii or CultMech) codex about how all soldiers from any loyal forge world must have some red on their markings to show their loyalty to Mars. Again, I included it not because I hate it a lot, but because I can't understand why I hate it.

Yeah I think it's because it messes with the whole 'your dudes' thing if someone's telling you that they have to have a little bit of red on them somewhere.

 Boneville wrote:
I think the worst part for me is the way that the religious parts of the imperium gets only a token mention.

There is alot of potential in exploring the faith and interpretations of the ecchlisiarchy, but Games workshop never seems to do anything with it.

Maybe they dont want to touch religious themes more than absolutely necessary.

Have you read the 4th ed rulebook? Every single page has a
piece of the Imperial creed, prayers or propaganda on it.

Edit: The fluff generally was more religion foccused back then as I recall. If you're really intrested in that stuff check out fantasy flights dark Heresy roleplaying games

1. Matt Ward's Sororita killing spree with the Grey Knights doing the killing of said Sororitas.

 Abanshee wrote:
1. Matt Ward's Sororita killing spree with the Grey Knights doing the killing of said Sororitas.

The Blood Tide?

That one actually isn't so bad when you look at it for what actually happened rather than treating it as a Grey Knights slaughtering Sororitas army.

First, a super-powerful demon was unburied on this planet, killed basically everyone, only Sisters of Battle left because they're basically immune to the red demon goo the reason for which this demon was called "Bloodtide".

Then, Grey Knights show up in orbit in their ships, examine the situation, realize they only have a few hours until that demon does that Warp Rift thing where the sector is open to the Warp that the Grey Knights are always trying to stop.

Grey Knights examine the threat of the super-powerful demon, realize they can't be guaranteed their armor will be protection, and this is the case you don't take chances on.

They open their book of Chaos magic they turn to sometimes when they're desperate and need something powerful. They find something that might work - a magical oil or something that they have access to all the components for, and then when they cover their armor with it they will be immune to the demon stuff.

So they make the oil up on the ship, but there's one ingredient that's not on the ship they need to add - the blood of a virgin.

Well, guess what. Sisters of Battle don't have sex. They are virgins. And there are surviving Sisters of Battle on the planet below.

So they teleport down, kill the Sisters of Battle as quickly as possible, take the blood they need, put it in the mix, put it on their armor and stuff, now they're immune too.

Then they go kill the demon just in time, teleport back to the ship, cyclonic torpedo the planet, and their job is done.

Yeah, they were always planning to cyclonic torpedo the planet, because that's what they do to any planet that's had a demon on it, so those Sisters would've died anyways.

The Sisters were only in the story because they are all virgins due to not having sex ever.

Why was the virgin thing so important to include?

Because the story is based on a terrible movie from the 1980s named Bloodtide where a demon awakens and starts demanding the sacrifice of local virgins until the hero kills the demon.

Anyways, my own most-hated piece of 40k fluff was when they refused to tidy up the lore into a consistent canon and let every version ever be canon simultaneously. This irks me because I'm a big fan of canon stuff, and having tons of different versions mucks with my ability to have things make sense to me.

But on the plus side it does mean that that Half-Eldar Ultramarines Chief Librarian from 2e is considered canon, because they let you pick from any official stuff, guess what, 2e stuff where that guy is from qualifies. If that sounds hard to rationalize that as canon when mixed with the current lore, well, it is, which is my issue with having everything be canon instead of a specific set of things.

Because the story is based on a terrible movie from the 1980s named Bloodtide where a demon awakens and starts demanding the sacrifice of local virgins until the hero kills the demon.

so... basicly it's a cheap knock off, of a cheap knock off? (cause the movie summerized sure SOUNDS like George and the Dragon, with a demon instead of a dragon(

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
I dont get why everyone is hating on the new books...

..The only thing i actually might dislike is retconning. Just stick with what you have please and build from there.

Maybe you don't realize it, but you've solved your own confusion right there.

Orks... just Orks...

Give me the fluff from 1st edition, especially 'ere we go' and 'aargh the orks' any day

I often cringe when I know an Eldar Avatar will appear in a SM novel because it'll likely be extinguished as easily as the candles on a kids birthday cake

Calgar killing one with a single punch especially annoys me because as he was already badly hurt from a previous blow to his arm / shoulder.

 Pouncey wrote:
Well, guess what. Sisters of Battle don't have sex. They are virgins.

Guess what? There's actually no evidence of that. Unlike nuns in real world SOB don't have celibacy vows. Most don't simply find time nor inclination for it.

SeanDrake wrote:

I think the Cain books are massively overated knock offs of flashman and while funny in places probably stand out due to most other 40k fiction being turgid gabage.

I know it is probably heresy but the Gaunt books are rubbish as well they are better written than most others but still rubbish that fails to transcend the works they are "influenced" by such as sharpe and the old ww1 set comics such as charlies war.

Bears repeating



The Gaunt books are 100 pages of great world building, 200 pages of pew-pew-pew and then 10 pages of wrap-up/killing a 3rd tier character.

It's a shame because Abnett really can write, I think the Einhorn books are still the apex of BL and tied with Ian Watson's Draco books for my favorite 40k fiction.

The Cain books are hamstrung because you can't really mock the (thoroughly mockable) 40k universe while also cashing a paycheck from GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The retcons to the Horus Heresy introduced by the new novel series of the same name.

Some are minor annoyances (Mortarion's motivation and relationship to the Heresy/daemons). Some are game breaking (involving the Ultramarines at all).

OMG speaking of Horus Heresy the highlanders, totally forgot about the Highlanders.

I mean that one immortal guy in the first book was kind of cool, but now Vulcan is a Highlander too? And that IG dude that jumped out and saved the Emperor? He can't just be a random dude, he has to be a Highlander too! Just #$%^ing name him Konnor M'Kloud and be done with it.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Abanshee wrote:
1. Matt Ward's Sororita killing spree with the Grey Knights doing the killing of said Sororitas.

The Blood Tide?

That one actually isn't so bad when you look at it for what actually happened rather than treating it as a Grey Knights slaughtering Sororitas army.

First, a super-powerful demon was unburied on this planet, killed basically everyone, only Sisters of Battle left because they're basically immune to the red demon goo the reason for which this demon was called "Bloodtide".

Then, Grey Knights show up in orbit in their ships, examine the situation, realize they only have a few hours until that demon does that Warp Rift thing where the sector is open to the Warp that the Grey Knights are always trying to stop.

Grey Knights examine the threat of the super-powerful demon, realize they can't be guaranteed their armor will be protection, and this is the case you don't take chances on.

They open their book of Chaos magic they turn to sometimes when they're desperate and need something powerful. They find something that might work - a magical oil or something that they have access to all the components for, and then when they cover their armor with it they will be immune to the demon stuff.

So they make the oil up on the ship, but there's one ingredient that's not on the ship they need to add - the blood of a virgin.

Well, guess what. Sisters of Battle don't have sex. They are virgins. And there are surviving Sisters of Battle on the planet below.

So they teleport down, kill the Sisters of Battle as quickly as possible, take the blood they need, put it in the mix, put it on their armor and stuff, now they're immune too.

Then they go kill the demon just in time, teleport back to the ship, cyclonic torpedo the planet, and their job is done.

Yeah, they were always planning to cyclonic torpedo the planet, because that's what they do to any planet that's had a demon on it, so those Sisters would've died anyways.

The Sisters were only in the story because they are all virgins due to not having sex ever.

Why was the virgin thing so important to include?

Because the story is based on a terrible movie from the 1980s named Bloodtide where a demon awakens and starts demanding the sacrifice of local virgins until the hero kills the demon.

Anyways, my own most-hated piece of 40k fluff was when they refused to tidy up the lore into a consistent canon and let every version ever be canon simultaneously. This irks me because I'm a big fan of canon stuff, and having tons of different versions mucks with my ability to have things make sense to me.

But on the plus side it does mean that that Half-Eldar Ultramarines Chief Librarian from 2e is considered canon, because they let you pick from any official stuff, guess what, 2e stuff where that guy is from qualifies. If that sounds hard to rationalize that as canon when mixed with the current lore, well, it is, which is my issue with having everything be canon instead of a specific set of things.

What about the Grey Knights then? Aren't they virgins aswell?

MasterBeard wrote:

What about the Grey Knights then? Aren't they virgins aswell?

Whaaaat? Grey Knights are the biggest players around!

 mrhappyface wrote:

MasterBeard wrote:

What about the Grey Knights then? Aren't they virgins aswell?

Whaaaat? Grey Knights are the biggest players around!

I thought that was the army of douche-waffles. I mean space wolves.

In Dan Abnett's Ravenor - Omnibus, there's a scene in the last book where the retinue escapes a collapsing underwater facility through the use of a door that
can allow someone to time travel to any time desired or at any location at random (only when the door is "ready"). However, there were certain instances where they visited what seemed to me
like other galaxies outside 40k. Bare in mind, the door they used has no real connection to the warp or any psychic presence whatsoever, so it seems as if it's literally magic.

Otherwise, it was a great novel! Just the sheer lack of explanation about this mysterious door made me feel as if I wasn't reading a 40k novel.

I have hated the recent hyper-exaggeration of the Space Wolves and the ridiculous Mary Sueism of the Grey Knights. I really hope this gets tamed back at some stage, a gentle rereleasing of models and renaming for the Wolves and some very serious kicking to the head for the Grey Knights in the fiction.

I Really hate the orks being the punchbag for the rest of the galaxy, I'd like to see them get some threat back, but also retain some of that characterful background. I really want the Clans back and front and center for army composition and lore.

I am down with both the Nids and especially the Crons taking a hit to their 'vast and ancient terror' lore, honestly. They had both rivaled and then eclipsed Chaos in the previous books and that was never the intention. From day one, the gribbly extradimensional elder chaos gods were meant to be the ultimate bad guys, but the background in cron books and nid books made them out as far vaster and more dangerous and nothing in the lore should be.

So the Necrons became various subfactions with understandable motivations and moved to the Neutral Evil position like the Tomb Kings, allowing for more interaction and more definition, whilst Tyranids, still terrifying and True Neutral as a force of nature, became vulnerable to expending their energies too fast, being vulnerable to wars of attrition and burning up calories too fast when encountering powerful resistance.

I have to say I approve of both these weaknesses. Both couldn't go on being The Ultimate Evil forever and both shouldn't steal the limelight from Chaos and it's eldritch madness and reality breaking.

That was the biggest thing I laughed about Newcrons. Now not only does the galaxy get to wait tI'll they all awaken but the galaxy gets further reprieve time as the Newcrons figure out how to get along with each other. Maybe they'll get their chance in 50K.

Daemons being relegated to cannon fodder. It's not just against Space Marines but against other factions as well. Though Space Marines are the most egregious offenders. Also not much of a fan of "Chaos God X doesn't like planet Y so invades because it wants to" style scenarios.

Also I hate that the Eldar have lost a lot of their themes to other factions. Tau seem more tactical than them (along with taking the high mobility high firepower part), Necrons took their best technology and oldest race angle, Necrons and Imperials in general (though especially Space Marines oddly) took the scrying the future part. Between the Farseers and centuries-of-experience Autrachs they should have a massive advantage in any engagement but they seem to lose most of the time.

Also the Holocaust Psychic Power. More specifically the part where it can permanently destroy souls and Daemons. Way too widely available (or at least it is in Dark Heresy).

tneva82 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Well, guess what. Sisters of Battle don't have sex. They are virgins.

Guess what? There's actually no evidence of that. Unlike nuns in real world SOB don't have celibacy vows. Most don't simply find time nor inclination for it.

Well, there's no fluff either way, so you can't make definite statements about it. Unless you take the Ciaphas Cain books as part of your headcanon. I don't personally, but many people do.

Personally I think the Sisters vows would include one of celibacy, but that's just my personal preference.

As to what fluff I hate? The new stuff on Celestine and the twins in FoC. I'm not going to get in to why, because I'd have to go explaining my headcanon and I'm sure someone would take it upon themselves to explain how "wrong" my opinions are and besides all of it would be off topic.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I have hated the recent hyper-exaggeration of the Space Wolves and the ridiculous Mary Sueism of the Grey Knights. I really hope this gets tamed back at some stage, a gentle rereleasing of models and renaming for the Wolves and some very serious kicking to the head for the Grey Knights in the fiction.

I Really hate the orks being the punchbag for the rest of the galaxy, I'd like to see them get some threat back, but also retain some of that characterful background. I really want the Clans back and front and center for army composition and lore.

I am down with both the Nids and especially the Crons taking a hit to their 'vast and ancient terror' lore, honestly. They had both rivaled and then eclipsed Chaos in the previous books and that was never the intention. From day one, the gribbly extradimensional elder chaos gods were meant to be the ultimate bad guys, but the background in cron books and nid books made them out as far vaster and more dangerous and nothing in the lore should be.

So the Necrons became various subfactions with understandable motivations and moved to the Neutral Evil position like the Tomb Kings, allowing for more interaction and more definition, whilst Tyranids, still terrifying and True Neutral as a force of nature, became vulnerable to expending their energies too fast, being vulnerable to wars of attrition and burning up calories too fast when encountering powerful resistance.

I have to say I approve of both these weaknesses. Both couldn't go on being The Ultimate Evil forever and both shouldn't steal the limelight from Chaos and it's eldritch madness and reality breaking.

I completely disagree. I feel like the old Necron and Tyranid fluff was a necessary response to the actualities of Chaos as the fans perceived it--pathetic. Chaos is almost impossible to take seriously as an enemy, especially after 10,000 years of Has Beening and Never Will Againing as exemplified by Abaddon. They were literally stewing in their own failure for thousands of years. The mechanics of the Chaos gods preclude them from any true victory, or even longterm partnership. Chaos works as the insidious threat of internal corruption, an ideological threat or as the deadly distraction during an actual existential crisis. Other than the cults, they might as well just have been more colorful ork clans (back before orks were diversified into genegineered fungus monsters). Tyranids and Necrons added new dimensions to the fluff, more believable threats, and raised a whole lot of interesting backstory implications.

 Servant of Dante wrote:
As to what fluff I hate? The new stuff on Celestine and the twins in FoC.

I don't like that either. I always saw Celestine as a "Legion of the Damned"-style force of nature who showed up out of nowhere to kick arse, then vanished as mysteriously as she arrived when the day was won. Now she's like, hanging out with all the Cadia dudes and having conversations with people and stuff. She's gone from "mysterious divine benefactor" to "cheesy superhero".

The gameplay and story segregation is a bit jarring too. The Fall of Cadia books are the only fluff I've really read since I got back into the hobby and they're brimming over with silliness. Who puts Suncannons on a Wraithknight? What kind of Eldar general lets a Keeper of Secrets get into close combat with his dudes? Why are they so scared of the Daemonettes? I get that Slaanesh will eat their souls, but in combat, why would they care? Daemonettes suck. I find it hard to believe the elite Eldar warrior classes would be scared of some daemons that my inbred, 5pts-per-model Neophyte Hybrids can destroy by the bushel with their space hillbilly shotguns and autoguns.

Also, why Robot Girlyman? Why not The Khan or one of the other cool Primarchs? Why bring back the boring one?