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Hey all

I've been bouncing around a concept for a space marine chapter and wanted to get your views, idea's, problems and suggestions from a fluff point of view.

Concept

* Unlike most Space Marine Chapters, this one will usually deploy as an entire chapter - the only reason I could come up with why other chapters don't do this is the risk of the Chapter being wiped out.
* Because of the above, the Chapter has in fact been almost wiped out in its history, and each time it has been rebuilt (not sure why the chapter has been rebuilt rather than just founding a new chapter, possibly because, due to bureaucracy in the imperium, it is easier to rebuild a chapter rather than found a new one).
* It often takes in space marines survivors of destroyed chapters.
* It would need a larger than normal apothecary group in order to track and maintain the history of the different geneseeds coming into the chapter - possibly this could be done by failed initiates.
* It would have a larger than normal pool of dreadnaughts, most of which would have come from other destroyed chapters.

* The Chapter would specialize in hulk boarding actions.
* This means that they have a higher proportion of terminator suits than normal (I'm thinking in the region of enough to field the entire first company in TDA - there is a reasoning behind how they have come to have so many suits further down).
* They would most likely have a much higher proportion of assault centurions than normal.
* They would lack a lot of the heavy equipment most chapters have such as tanks and devistators.
* Either a higher number of Techmarines than normal, or a large number of marines trained in the basics of tech.
* Given that Terminators are usually the ones used by other chapters to board a hulk, it would not be uncommon for the chapter to find terminator armour on the hulks they board - where possible it would be returned to its original chapter, however when the armour is from a destroyed chapter, the chapter takes it as their own. This also applies to power armour.
* When taking armour for their own, they leave a part of it the colour of the original chapter, along with that chapters emblem on it.
* They may also have a higher proportion than normal of Librarians (given that hulks travel through the warp)

What are your thoughts regarding the above, and also what do you think the feel and character of the chapter would be.

Space hulks are fairly uncommon. Those that are found dont often need to be boarded, they can just be destroyed or if they do need to be explored or cleared slowly by a few dedicated teams. The amount of times that a space hulk would need to be rush boarded by an entire chapter in the previous 10,000 years can probably be counted on one hand.

The ad mech is very interested in space hulks, to recover technology and to possibly repair and put them back into service as incredibly valueable large ships they are no longer able to build. But most of the time they can do it themselves or with a small detachment of heavy assault terminators from another chapter. It is possible they have a prefered chapter to call on, but that would be setting your chapter up to be the AdMech's servant/vassal.

I think you should focus on boarding actions in general. There are a lot more traitor ships out there than need to be boarded than random space hulks. Add to that, traitor ships are often infested with nastier stuff than orks and exotic xenos, they often have traitor space marines and daemons

Deploying an entire space marine chapter would be unlikely. On the table, 1000 marines is a push over, in the fluff 1000 marines is enough to conquer dozens of worlds at the same time. Saving the entire chapter for only engagements that require entire chapters would be a waste of resources.

In response to why chapters don't deploy as an entire chapter generally...It's because it's usually not needed. SM now don't operate as a blunt force instrument as they did during the great crusade and heresy. They are precision shock troops. If the need arises (such as the defense of Baal), all available parts of the chapter (or in that case good chunks of other chapters too) would respond, but that is a rarity and out of necessity.

I'd also note that entire chapters aren't destroyed all that often, so they wouldn't likely have many extra terminator suits from those chapters, or marines coming in from that source.

Otherwise, as Exergy said, for a more believable backstory I'd have them as space boarding action specialists.

Keep in mind: At the end of the day it's your fluff, so do as you wish and do what makes YOU happy.

 Exergy wrote:
Space hulks are fairly uncommon. Those that are found dont often need to be boarded, they can just be destroyed or if they do need to be explored or cleared slowly by a few dedicated teams. The amount of times that a space hulk would need to be rush boarded by an entire chapter in the previous 10,000 years can probably be counted on one hand.

The ad mech is very interested in space hulks, to recover technology and to possibly repair and put them back into service as incredibly valueable large ships they are no longer able to build. But most of the time they can do it themselves or with a small detachment of heavy assault terminators from another chapter. It is possible they have a prefered chapter to call on, but that would be setting your chapter up to be the AdMech's servant/vassal.

I think you should focus on boarding actions in general. There are a lot more traitor ships out there than need to be boarded than random space hulks. Add to that, traitor ships are often infested with nastier stuff than orks and exotic xenos, they often have traitor space marines and daemons

Deploying an entire space marine chapter would be unlikely. On the table, 1000 marines is a push over, in the fluff 1000 marines is enough to conquer dozens of worlds at the same time. Saving the entire chapter for only engagements that require entire chapters would be a waste of resources.

The only chapter who deploy so are minotours.
They deploy full chapter regularly. But they are a high lords weapon, full chapter deployments outside of that are very very rare. Youl need a reason why but its possible.

And yeah space hulks are not everywhere... And being a admech linked chapter you are not gonna lack for tanks and heavy artillery.
A ad mech linked chapter be well suplied.

Also, remnants of nearly destroyed chapters are not just free to be scooped up and absorbed by other chapters. For the most part, they are rebuilt, so long as gene-seed stocks are available. I doubt it is your intention, but the way your chapter is just taking all this stuff makes me see them as graverobbers more than anything.

The reason for the lack of tanks and devs wasn't a case of not being available, but more due to the lack of needing them.

I always got the impression that space hulks were more common, given how orks, stealers and chaos all seem to use them to get around to a greater or lesser extent.

Is TDA still being produced, if so, a link to the ad mech would explain the larger quantities of it.

The Chapter is linked to my IG and the crusade it is based around (you can see its background in the link in my signature, be warned, its a long read).

I like the idea of boarding specialists.

Entire chapter being deployed to a single hulk, I agree, that doesn't make too much sense.

icn1982 wrote:
* Unlike most Space Marine Chapters, this one will usually deploy as an entire chapter - the only reason I could come up with why other chapters don't do this is the risk of the Chapter being wiped out.

Besides it applying an insane amount of overkill to one situation while any number of other worthy causes are utterly lost for lack of timely Astartes intervention...

Honestly it's way too common an idea among homebrew chapters and isn't really relevant unless you intend to field an utterly epic full-chapter army.

* It often takes in space marines survivors of destroyed chapters.

Where is this chapter operating that marine chapters are close enough to them that survivors can migrate to them and are also being wiped out with enough frequency that such an occurrence happens 'often?'

And how are they doing this without attracting the ire of secretive parent chapters and the Imperial authority at large?

* It would have a larger than normal pool of dreadnaughts, most of which would have come from other destroyed chapters.

Dreadnoughts are ill-suited to boarding actions.

* This means that they have a higher proportion of terminator suits than normal (I'm thinking in the region of enough to field the entire first company in TDA - there is a reasoning behind how they have come to have so many suits further down).

It's not out of the question that a chapter could establish ties with a forgeworld and have a higher than average number of terminator suits available. Go for it.

* They would most likely have a much higher proportion of assault centurions than normal.

Did you find some secret technique that makes them good?

* They would lack a lot of the heavy equipment most chapters have such as tanks and devistators.

Where are scouts assigned right after getting their black carapace?

* Either a higher number of Techmarines than normal, or a large number of marines trained in the basics of tech.

Both elements that appear in cannon chapters such as the Reclaimers.

* Given that Terminators are usually the ones used by other chapters to board a hulk, it would not be uncommon for the chapter to find terminator armour on the hulks they board - where possible it would be returned to its original chapter, however when the armour is from a destroyed chapter, the chapter takes it as their own. This also applies to power armour.
* When taking armour for their own, they leave a part of it the colour of the original chapter, along with that chapters emblem on it.

I'm pretty sure most chapters do reclaim recovered armour if they can, some perhaps for chapter use, maybe someone else can confirm that... I do like the idea of a chapter honouring the machine spirit of recovered armour by keeping it's original insignia somewhere,as long as it's done in a consistent way and not too gaudy (a coloured arm or something?)

* They may also have a higher proportion than normal of Librarians (given that hulks travel through the warp)

Chapters don't necessarily go out of their way to recruit librarians because they need more. If they have a recruiting world with a higher than average number of psykers then they'd be expected to have a more healthy librarium, but everything about that is its own can of fish.

icn1982 wrote:
The reason for the lack of tanks and devs wasn't a case of not being available, but more due to the lack of needing them.
I always got the impression that space hulks were more common, given how orks, stealers and chaos all seem to use them to get around to a greater or lesser extent.
The Chapter is linked to my IG and the crusade it is based around (you can see its background in the link in my signature, be warned, its a long read).
I like the idea of boarding specialists.
Entire chapter being deployed to a single hulk, I agree, that doesn't make too much sense.

So maybe the chapter focuses on boarding actions and is nominally based near the eye of terror without a homeworld(fleet based). Always around to counter the treat of the traitor fleet(by far the most dangerous fleet to the IoM)

Primarily prepared to do hit and run attacks to disable/destroy enemy vessels in large battles, they also are trained to board and try to capture lone enemy vessels as prizes.

This could explain the need for deploying an entire chapter, and also how the chapter might have almost been wiped out several times. Boarding a CSM battle barge, even a crippled one, would be incredibly difficult and costly. It would probably take an entire chapter specialized in boarding and a lot of support to do so. But the prize would be worth it. Seeing things go poorly the traitors would try to overload their reactors; if successful most of the chapter would be destroyed.

A chapter so specialized would get called in occasionally for special operations throughout the galaxy. So if there was a rare spacehulk that the AdMech wanted to capture intact and in a hurry, this chapter might get called.


Fitting them in to your IG and crusade..... I dont know. I doubt the entire chapter would get deployed away from the eye of terror for a long crusade. The threat the Traitor fleet poses to the imperium is just too great.

Chapters don't necessarily go out of their way to recruit librarians because they need more. If they have a recruiting world with a higher than average number of psykers then they'd be expected to have a more healthy librarium, but everything about that is its own can of fish.

The Scholastica Psykana selects children and sends them to many chapters. Even some Librarians from prominent chapters that often find their own recruits may sometimes have been sent from Terra. It's important to maintain some minimum number of librarians, or not only do they lose the services of their intelligence/communications advisors, but they also lose the ability to effectively detect and train future psychic recruits. If the Librarium gets down to three or four librarians, they will have trouble maintaining the institutions of training, equipment maintenance, self-policing, mastery of multiple disciplines, and evaluating recruits, to say nothing of actually doing their combat duties. It's possible that in a given chapter there are seven librarians, out of the nineteen or so total, who are the only marines in the chapter not to be from a specific home world.

Not going to go into a detailed response to everyone else's messages, mostly because I think the OP is more important and forum discussions so often descend into pure pedantry.

Overall, if I'm perfectly honest, your Chapter seems very 'Special Snowflake'. From a fluff point of view, if you don't want to paint yourself into a corner, you should pick one or two specialisms and stick to them. Two examples spring to mind:

1. It's largely impractical to deploy a whole Chapter at once nowadays. You can acheive what you want with Terminator and Centurion frequency by saying that a Company's Command Squad will usually be equipped with Terminator armour, and that their Assault and Devastator sqads will usually take Centurion suits. The Centurion was designed as a cheap alternative to Terminator armour, so that makes sense.

2. If you use Red Scorpions tactics, you can replace Tactical Squad Sergeants with Apothecaries. This is quite powerful, and fluffy for a newly-founded Chapter that wants to establish a solid foundation of Gene-seed.

Other than that, I'd advise you to drop all the other specialisms. There's nothing wrong with a Chapter being a generalist. Make them unique by showing what they do, rather than just stating that they're really unique.

Still, it's good to see people making homebrew Chapters.

 Spineyguy wrote:


2. If you use Red Scorpions tactics, you can replace Tactical Squad Sergeants with Apothecaries. This is quite powerful, and fluffy for a newly-founded Chapter that wants to establish a solid foundation of Gene-seed.

Other than that, I'd advise you to drop all the other specialisms. There's nothing wrong with a Chapter being a generalist. Make them unique by showing what they do, rather than just stating that they're really unique.

Still, it's good to see people making homebrew Chapters.

Thanks for mentioning the idea of red scorpions. I am still toying with the idea of pushing the generic idea instead, especially given the crusade fluff. Along the lines of the Marines hit a planet hard destroying organised resistance, and key strategic points then move on leaving the guard to mop up.

Also, given that the crusade is moving into unexplored area's where a great crusade exploratory fleet went but for some reason stopped, and given the evidence large battles were fought in this area during the great crusade, it is possible that the battles weren't just fought on the ground but in space as well, leaving a large number of wrecks.

As mentioned previously this is just a concept at the moment and so thanks to all the responses, will have a think about them and no doubt post an updated concept in the future.

I like the idea of being stationed near the eye of terror

As a general tip for writing characters or organisations like a SM chapter: Start of with a flaw. All people in real life and most well-written characters in fiction are flawed. Your flaws are a huge part of what makes you as a person and storywise they provide a lot of potential for great fluff.
By centering your characters around flaws instead of strengths, you will also avoid the mary sue snowflake problems that plague most inexperienced writers.
Of course, this does not mean that your characters can't have strenghts, but it is very important to not overdo this. Pick just one or two strenghts that interact with the flaws of your character in some way.
Note that most of the interesting major chapters/legions in the fluff are built this way (Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Thousand Sons etc.)

On a fluff note, a chapter rarely gets destroyed (because its members are rarely all in the same place) and even if there is just one survivor it can and usually will be rebuilt. The Imperium is very fond of traditions and symbolism. If a chapter can be rebuilt it will always be rebuilt. So there would virtually never be any remnants of other chapters for your chapter to absorb.

Hi,

Thanks for sharing your created chapter, I like your ideas.

I think it would be interesting to consider your ideas in more detail to come up with the social and organisational consequences of your chosen specialisation. This way you really start creating a character for the Chapter.

For example, taking the idea that you have an above average amount of Terminators;

How are these Terminators organised? Maybe this chapter has a first company larger than stipulated by the Codex Astartes incorporating all warriors clad in terminator armour.

What knock on effects would this have? Maybe the authority of the Captain of the First Company is greatly enhanced. His company would not only be larger than the others but have an advantage in Chapter relics, attendant serfs to maintain this armour etc.
Perhaps their is no Captain of the First Company and these duties are taken on directly by the Chapter Master further enhancing the First Company's prestige.

How would this affect the attitude of marines in other companies? The favouritism and reputation of the First Company could make the marines of the Chapter's other companies aggressive and reckless as they try to earn admission through glorious deeds.

This can then feed back into your other ideas. Maybe the Chapter only deploys as a single unit because the concentration of authority is jealously guarded by its Chapter Masters, they obsessively micromanage their chapter and are unwilling to allow Captains of the other companies independence to earn accolades in their own right.

Alright im never on to ever stipple creation but the concept is kinda crindgy and edgy, with trying to be to unique.



* Unlike most Space Marine Chapters, this one will usually deploy as an entire chapter - the only reason I could come up with why other chapters don't do this is the risk of the Chapter being wiped out.

- This is kinda counter productive, if you want the chapter to live you dont send it all into battle at once. Remember space marines are shock troopers and vanguards going up against much greater numbers, it would be silly to drop your whole chapter into the battle not to mention cost way to much man power and resources.

* Because of the above, the Chapter has in fact been almost wiped out in its history, and each time it has been rebuilt (not sure why the chapter has been rebuilt rather than just founding a new chapter, possibly because, due to bureaucracy in the imperium, it is easier to rebuild a chapter rather than found a new one).

- Again see point above if its a bad tactic why would you keep doing it.

* It often takes in space marines survivors of destroyed chapters.

- Im not gonna say this is bad because the death watch do this, so, meh, but their would not be many of them since if a space marine for a loyal chapter did live and had no reason why they could not go back to their birth chapter they would go back.

* It would need a larger than normal apothecary group in order to track and maintain the history of the different geneseeds coming into the chapter - possibly this could be done by failed initiates.

- Eh, your not going to make a lot of friends with other chapters if your hording their own geneseed around, dark angels get kinda pissy about taht

* It would have a larger than normal pool of dreadnaughts, most of which would have come from other destroyed chapters.

- I doubt that other chapters would let you take their highly prized relics and take them for a test dive on the weekend.

* The Chapter would specialize in hulk boarding actions.

- as pointed out, thats really rare to happen

* This means that they have a higher proportion of terminator suits than normal (I'm thinking in the region of enough to field the entire first company in TDA - there is a reasoning behind how they have come to have so many suits further down).

- If the chapter keeps getting destoryed, how would they have all this terminator armor? Thats the dark angels shtick.

* They would most likely have a much higher proportion of assault centurions than normal.

- This is what i mean by special snowflake, they have terminators, stolen dreads, AND lots of centurions

* They would lack a lot of the heavy equipment most chapters have such as tanks and devistators.

- but still have all the equipment for a crap ton of termies, dreads and cents?

* Either a higher number of Techmarines than normal, or a large number of marines trained in the basics of tech.

- Now we are throwing tech marines onto all the other things they magically have a large number of.

* Given that Terminators are usually the ones used by other chapters to board a hulk, it would not be uncommon for the chapter to find terminator armour on the hulks they board - where possible it would be returned to its original chapter, however when the armour is from a destroyed chapter, the chapter takes it as their own. This also applies to power armour.

- Again, a chapter is not going to let you take their armor for a joy ride because you need it.

* When taking armour for their own, they leave a part of it the colour of the original chapter, along with that chapters emblem on it.

- Meh, not against this idea

* They may also have a higher proportion than normal of Librarians (given that hulks travel through the warp)

- Librarians now.



Also so honestly, your making a mary sue chapter, High amount of dreads taken from chapters, high amount of terminator armor for reasons, lots of tech marines for reasons, lots of apothecaries for reasons, and now lots of librarians for reasons. The chapter concept of being a piece mealed chapter is not a bad one, but your going about it in a really crindgy way. They would not have all these powerful and highly sacred artifacts if they keep getting blown up. It soulds like you are trying to do to much in a single home brew chapter.

I like the idea of a space hulk hunting chapter, thats kinda a cool thing and would allow for a large amount of terminator armor and techmarines to support that, even slightly more librarians, but the rest of the stuff would need to be toned WAY back.

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all your comments, having considered them (and agreed with a lot of the points raised), I present to you my new refined concept for your honest critique from a fluff perspective.

* The Chapter will still deploy as a Chapter BUT in the much broader sense of the entire chapter being deployed to the Crusade (so multiple worlds, multiple engagements)
* The Chapter has recently been rebuilt due to being nearly wiped out. Specifics are still being considered, but I like the idea that they engaged in large scale boarding actions against Chaos who destroyed their crippled ships (I'm thinking this would be multiple simultaneous engagements across a large front), I'm also considering the destruction of their homeworld, maybe by chaos, maybe by the 'nids - feel free to throw out some suggestions as to how the chapter was nearly destroyed. If their homeworld was destroyed it may explain their mass deployment in the crusade, they will be able to take one of the planets and claim it as their own.
* The Chapter would specialise in boarding actions and, when the need arises large land based fortifications (these would be rare, but I am thinking large fortified citadels and the like where they are able to just punch through with boarding style ships/torpedoes - I believe there is a ship designed specifically for this, but have forgotten its name).
* The first Company would be specialists at Hulk boarding actions, and will often, when possible be called in by the Ad Mech for boarding and retrieval of hulks. This level of close ties would give them access to a higher proportion of TDA that you would normally expect (still only enough to equip the entire first company at once).
The First Company would be the survivors of the Chapter's near destruction and will probably paint part of their armour black in memory/mourning - maybe the shoulder pad with the crux terminarus symbol (is there any requirement for the crux terminates to be the colour it is? maybe that could be black instead).
* The Chapters tactics will be that of hit and run, especially with boarding actions. This may be a recent development if the near destruction was caused due to chaos destroying their crippled ships. It might also mean that the First Company don't follow this style of warfare, and still use the pre destruction tactics of trying to capture enemy ships, which would make them good hulk hunters.
* The Chapter would have a lower proportion of heavy equipment (tanks, devs etc) simply because it doesn't fit with their combat style.
* The Chapter may have close ties to one or more chapters after retrieving TDA from hulks and returning it to is appropriate chapter.
* Haven't decided if painting part of the armour black will run across the entire chapter or be limited to the survivors - again feel free to jump in with suggestions and ideas here.
* Considering the idea that a large number of the new recruits have come from the Schoola Proginia, especially if their homeworld was destroyed.

Still working on how scouts are deployed. One possibility is that they are deployed to support the imperial guard in the crusade, also toying with the idea of deployed along side tempestus scions. The ultimate purpose for either could be to look at the viability of such a planet as their new homeworld (if I go down the homeworld destroyed route. Any other ideas on how the scouts would fit into such a Chapter.

I'm curious how the recent near destruction of the Chapter would effect the general mood of the Chapter. Also, if they were to recruit from the Schoola Proginia, then that would definitely have a big impact on the character of the Chapter. Is the Chapter overly cautious, or are they overly eager to prove themselves.
I'm also considering that the current chapter master is new and relatively inexperienced (maybe he was a Captain in one of the reserves companies before the destruction, possibly only a 1st company sergeant - along the lines of second or third in command of the 1st Company).

Let me know what you think

The issue i see now, i near destruction chapter marines would be less likely to join, since marines are extremely loyal, that would be a time that they would need to rally more then ever then just up and leave to a new chapter which is not nearly as easy.

A fleet base chapter is pretty reasonable and them being a crusading chapter is also fine.

I muld over the idea a bit the other day, and i think i came up with a concept you might like.

Relic hunters:
-fleet based crusadeing chapter
-Ship to ship warfare
-Urban and corridor fighting specialization
-Main shtick: Tracking down relics and pre heresy gear, meaning mostly hulks
-Not a large abundance of terminator armor, but most of their terminator armor is either cataphractii or Tartaros pattern because they find most of it.
-The recruit from a recruiting world, but also ask for volunteers from other chapters.
-Relics they find they return to the owning chapter if they still exist which is how they get other chapters to let members into their ranks for tours, kinda like the death watch.
-Because they specialize in relic hunting, they have a slightly larger librarius conclave.

This way you can have a chapter specializing is confined fighting, while still giving them some flare of their own with out being to way out there and make no sense.

I would say drop the whole almost destroyed thing, its a Mary sue plot device.

Also no need to mention the, the whole chapter deploys across the crusade, because that does not make much sense, because all chapters deploy in that fashion.

Some really nice ideas in this iteration

I love the idea of their home planet being destroyed by Chaos. We've had quite a few destroyed by the 'nids now, and having Chaos back in the 'planet destruction' game helps give them some teeth

Plus, you could do some really cool things like have your Marines plagued by visions of the terrible Chaotic ritual that consumed their world, even those who don't share their geneseed (prompting investigation by the chapter's apothecaries in conjunction with the Magos Biologis and Ordo Hereticus).

I wouldn't say to drop the whole 'almost destroyed' thing, and for one really good reason:

icn1982 wrote:
I'm curious how the recent near destruction of the Chapter would effect the general mood of the Chapter.

This. This is fascinating. What would the near-total destruction of a Chapter do to its remaining veterans and those who survived to rebuild? How would it affect their psychology?

You'd have massive survivor's guilt for a start. I'd assume some of the survivors would be dedicated to preserving what's left of the chapter. Some might give in to despair, and simply seek a glorious end. Some further might be hell-bent on seeking revenge, even if it means the utter destruction of all they hold dear.

Having multiple characters in the higher ranks of your chapter reacting very differently to the situation, in which the poor new initiates are caught up between, could produce some really nice internal conflict to the chapter

Also, having the destruction happen via the whole chapter boarding a Chaos capital ship (possibly during the defence of their homeworld), and the Chaos Lord simply blows his own ship up is a beautiful little story arc can you imagine the feeling of utter horror and dread as the desperate last boarding action of the entire chapter is consumed in flames. Can you imagine being the Captain tasked with staying behind and watching all of that unfold? Now that's a strong basis for a determined but psychologically haunted Chapter Master.

Lastly, if you want a higher proportion of TDA suits, but don't want it Mary Sue, why not have the chapter still be under-strength, but the majority of their Terminator suits weren't destroyed in the cataclysm, you'd have a higher proportion of Termie suits without them being some special snowflake chapter that just so happens to have hundreds of the things for no good reason

icn1982 wrote:

I'm curious how the recent near destruction of the Chapter would effect the general mood of the Chapter.

A good place to look for some inspiration into how almost being destroyed would affect the Chapter would be the series of short stories involving the Scythes of the Emperor.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

icn1982 wrote:

I'm curious how the recent near destruction of the Chapter would effect the general mood of the Chapter.

A good place to look for some inspiration into how almost being destroyed would affect the Chapter would be the series of short stories involving the Scythes of the Emperor.

I would suggest that they are only now back up to full strength on paper, but not sure if the new recruitment and implantation was done in stages, or was done in a large batch or two. But relatively recently by chapter standards either way, it would also mean outside of the 1st company there would be very little actual battle experience (only what they received as scouts and maybe only a few years of actually being a marine, if that).

If nearly the entire chapter was trying to take a chaos capital ship as a prize when it's reactor blew it is possible that a few of the marines would survive. They would have had to have been far from the reactors and would have to be wearing TDA. Perhaps they were in the prow of the ship fighting there was to securing the torpedos(another thing that can be used to skuttle a ship) when the ship's reactors were detonated. Still most of them would have been liquified by that kind of force, but in the aftermath some suits of TDA could have been salvages and a few crippled marines might have been saved.

I've been toying with some of the ideas and suggestions and in addition to my previous post I am thinking of doing the following:

* The chapter will use the Black Templar Chapter Tactics. This is primarily to have crusader squads. I plan on having crusader squads instead of tactical squads. Given that they are going to be boarding specialists, it makes sense that they would be equipped for close combat. Given the chapters recent near destruction, I imagine that there has been a mass recruitment drive and rather than being formed into a single Company they have been dispersed throughout the chapter in a master/apprentice or knight/squire type role. I'm thinking along the lines of 2 Space Marines for every 1 Scout.

I'm still thinking that the Scholla Proginia would be a good place for this increased recruitment - it will be interesting to see how chapter traditions/beliefs mix/clash with that of what has been taught in the schoola proginia.

I think I will go down the route of Chaos being responsible for the destruction of their homeworld. As such I can imagine the librarians of the Chapter giving their lives in closing a warp rift, and or though the rift was closed, the damage to the planet had been done. I think that the Chapter may have one or two Librarians left (most likely being off world at the time), but because of the need to preserve the knowledge, psychic screenings etc they have been removed from battlefield roles until both the Chapter and the Librarius are at a sustainable level.

Definitely going down the route of having the first company being hulk hunters and as such there being close ties with the Ad Mech. I quite like the idea that the First Company was across the galaxy capturing a hulk at the request of the Ad Mech when the homeworld was destroyed, as this could create a lot of tension between the two groups.

As always, thoughts and suggestions welcome.

Seems good to me I like the whole Knight/Squire thing. That's actually something I wanted to do myself, playing a little with how a non-Codex compliant Space Marine chapter can operate.

I also like the potential for internal conflicts. I love the idea that there are tensions running very high within the chapter and a whole load of blame being flung around, fuelled mainly by anger and shock at the chapter nearly being wiped out

Seems very realistic