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I proxy my LoC as Terminator Lord with Plaguebringer relic - he has not disappointed me so far, the D3 damage and the extra mortal wounds allow him to tackle many threats he otherwise couldn't.
Otherwise, I second the notion to bring a plague caster instead. Smite is powerful enough to just bring him for that, and then you take plague wind and curse of the leper - one is great at killing guardsmen and the other at killing hordes. I rarely find myself not being able to use one or the other.

Also note that your drones do not need to be in a DG detachment at all, so you could just use a CSM sorcerer in that detachment and have access to dark hereticus powers.

Great Scott!
Heretic Astartes faction for the win!
Jump pack Sorcerer takes the LoC spot in an almost perfect swap. My army just got a lot better with Warptime.

 buddha wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Yeah I don't hold any illusions that I'll run the table, but I think a 4-2 finish is possible. The PMs have worked pretty good for me in my practice games. The have a good saturation of special weapons and are pretty resilient against anti infantry weapons. They don't see any heavy weapons being fired their way with all of the other high armor high toughness threats on the table.

That being said, I hear you. 20 Plague Marines are slow and should be about 2 points cheaper per model. But other than paying too much (40 pts by my scale) I don't think they are bad. At what price point would they go from being bad to good?

Would you give up at least one squad of PMs for some cultists? With the new FAQ screens are really important and from my own experience you want your PMs flexible and able to move around and therefore not being tied to an objective.

Also, and perhaps even more important, drop the Lord of Contagion. You can take a malignant plaguecaster for about the same or even just a chaos lord is a better take.

So the new FAQ prohibits any flying unit from moving over a screen? If that's true, that's a pretty significant game changer.

You can no longer do it while charging, consolidating, piling in or when doing heroic interventions - but you can jump screens just fine while moving, advancing or falling back.

bligthtlords are a bigger threat enemy cant ignore them, they have a large footprint so they grab easily objectives and they shoot.

Hi guys,

This list is inspired from a september winning Death guard list ( showcased in the last almost pro gaming).
I have never thought to use Horrors and nurglings in the same detachement, the only thing that is lost is the loci, the tzeentch loci is a very little use so its not a problem to mix them and get the +5pts.

The second key detachment is a Patrol with Nurgle terminator sorcerer ( for blades + miasma, you can swap with typhus if you want) and then dreadful Ten blightlords squad ( 2flails, 2 launchers).

The 3rd detachment is the difference with the main winning list. Why? because i dont own any Thousands sons.
So i added the mech Death Guard outrider detachement, with 2 pbcs, 2 drones and one myphetic ( you can replace it with drone i dont own 3 thats why and there is a synergy with bls). The Arch contaminator suppurating plate is here to reroll all wounds of all of this.

The goal is killing things T2 and tank the first turns with vehicles.



++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [26 PL, 462pts] ++



+ HQ +

Changecaster [4 PL, 78pts]

Herald of Slaanesh [4 PL, 66pts]: Ravaging claws, Symphony of Pain (cheap smite tax for batallion)



+ Troops +

Horrors [12 PL, 210pts]: 30x Pink Horror

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms



++ Patrol Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) [35 PL, 598pts] ++

+ HQ +

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [8 PL, 126pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Combi-bolter, Power sword



+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [27 PL, 472pts]

. Blightlord Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe

. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe

. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption

. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter



++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [48 PL, 937pts] ++



+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 199pts]: Hellforged sword, Plague Spewer, Wings



+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe



Myphitic Blight-haulers [7 PL, 142pts]

. Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta



+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger



++ Total: [109 PL, 1997pts] ++



Do you think it can be effective?

So many teminators...

I really think they should be split up, but it does pack a punch.

termies are fine in unit of 10 no reason to split them up, btw your patrol lack the mandatory troop and there is no comparison between a TS supreme command (i think the winning list ran it) and your detachment, different way to play lists

I Have to say you’re running the wrong type of drones. Here’s what I’m running for reference

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [69 PL, 1248pts] ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Fugaris' Helm, Malefic talon, Warlord, Wings

Typhus [9 PL, 175pts]: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Elites +

Blightlord Terminators [27 PL, 473pts]
. Blightlord Champion: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Flail of Corruption
. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe
. Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter
. Blightlord Terminator: Bubotic Axe, Combi-bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy slugger

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [38 PL, 752pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 189pts]: Malefic talon, Warp bolter, Wings
. Nurgle: Miasma of Pestilence

Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]: Corruption, Virulent Blessing

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

+ Fast Attack +

Plague Drones [16 PL, 331pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 8x Plague Drone, Plaguebringer

++ Total: [107 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

It’s a big bummer that deathguard and daemon miasma work on different things. The plan with this list is to run 3 blocks of tough things at my opponents. I run the flies with the Nurgle Deomon prince, typhus with blightlords, and the tanks with the poxbringer and warlord. I expect to lose 1 or 2 of these bricks, but not all three.

 Brymm wrote:
I like the blight lord idea just don't have any painted up. The LoC is in there as a deep strike CC threat, back field objective getter, with a small foot print and a pain to remove. In test games he's dropped in and gets the charge about half the time (I think its 52% with the command point). I tried the Plague Caster in a similar list and I find the DG powers to be underwhelming to support so many psykers unless I just plan on smiting.
The replacement options are either a Termi Lord or Termi Sorcerer. I want a singular deep strike threat. The LoC is the toughest. The Lord is a little faster and with a combiplasma can actually shoot and kill stuff when he lands, and the Sorcerer just isn't deadly enough and not super tough (and costs the most).
The times the LoC dropped in and failed his charge, enemies moved away, letting him walk towards them and eventually hold an objective. I wish he had a gun. Or moved faster than molasses in January.

I've always said that the LoC should also have the Chaos Lord aura to reroll ones to hit. Would give him much more utility

Tangent:
You manage to get the charge off with Mortarion against a Castellen. You want to get the highest chance of knocking off those 28W in one round, do you roll all Eviscerating Blows giving you approximately 1 extra hit from DttFE or do you roll 18 Scything attacks and try for 3 or more hits that you choose to use the Evicerating profile on. The math probably isn't too hard but maybe its been done?
Obviously the knight is doomed anyhow being charged by Morty and friends, but which is the most efficient?

 Brymm wrote:
Great Scott!
Heretic Astartes faction for the win!
Jump pack Sorcerer takes the LoC spot in an almost perfect swap. My army just got a lot better with Warptime.

Worth noting that, if you don't mind getting into lots of arguments over RAI, a DG Sorcerer on Palanquin specifically uses Dark Hereticus. Your model will be on a 'no longer supported' eggtimer and you'll be at the mercy of TOs as the RAW reading in our favour it is quite clearly only there by omission - and likely to get nerfed if it wins a big tourney.

 Brymm wrote:
Tangent:
You manage to get the charge off with Mortarion against a Castellen. You want to get the highest chance of knocking off those 28W in one round, do you roll all Eviscerating Blows giving you approximately 1 extra hit from DttFE or do you roll 18 Scything attacks and try for 3 or more hits that you choose to use the Evicerating profile on. The math probably isn't too hard but maybe its been done?
Obviously the knight is doomed anyhow being charged by Morty and friends, but which is the most efficient?

Generally speaking, you're best off throwing Eviscerating Blows at big targets like that unless you have either (or both) Blades of Putrefaction or Virulent Blessing up.

 MinMax wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Tangent:
You manage to get the charge off with Mortarion against a Castellen. You want to get the highest chance of knocking off those 28W in one round, do you roll all Eviscerating Blows giving you approximately 1 extra hit from DttFE or do you roll 18 Scything attacks and try for 3 or more hits that you choose to use the Evicerating profile on. The math probably isn't too hard but maybe its been done?
Obviously the knight is doomed anyhow being charged by Morty and friends, but which is the most efficient?

Generally speaking, you're best off throwing Eviscerating Blows at big targets like that unless you have either (or both) Blades of Putrefaction or Virulent Blessing up.

This.
You can generally assume that Mortarion hits and wounds all of his Eviscerating Blows - while averages don't reflect that properly, the chance that he doesn't hit and wound is only about 5.5%, which means that all six of his attacks deal damage 71.3% of the time. Therefore you usually get 6d6 damage on a castellan for something between 18-24 damage most of the time. Mind you that there is a 33.5% chance of not getting an additional attack, so make sure that you take that into consideration. There is, however a
Reaping scythe only wounds on 3's (re-rolling ones) and allows a 5+ armor save, meaning only about half of them get to deal damage, for an average of 9 damage. Assuming you get your average 3 eviscerating blows, you would add 9-12 damage from rolling 3d6, for a total 18-21 damage.

So, while they are not far apart, the Eviscerating Blows profile is clearly better to smash T8 models without invulnerable saves. One you get +1 to wound or the enemy has at least a 5++ save, the reaping scythe pulls ahead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lindsay40k wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Great Scott!
Heretic Astartes faction for the win!
Jump pack Sorcerer takes the LoC spot in an almost perfect swap. My army just got a lot better with Warptime.

Worth noting that, if you don't mind getting into lots of arguments over RAI, a DG Sorcerer on Palanquin specifically uses Dark Hereticus. Your model will be on a 'no longer supported' eggtimer and you'll be at the mercy of TOs as the RAW reading in our favour it is quite clearly only there by omission - and likely to get nerfed if it wins a big tourney.

I tried the Palanquin Sorcerer and found him to be wanting. My problem with him was that he is slow, while all good targets for warptime are pretty fast. Moving 5" and 3" cast range of warptime matches badly with daemon princes and Mortarion moving 12", so I'd rather take a jump pack sorcerer or at least a regular one (moves 6"+advance) and dodge all the RAW vs RAI discussions at the same time.

Yeah, with the 2 +1 to wound spells and their effects, Morty does stupid dmg when he throws a bucket of dice.

If you’re going down the Nurgle soup route, Prescience would be the masterstroke

100% yes on prescience! Super Saiyan morty is the strongest model in the game without question. All in theory, as actually getting all those buffs on him before he dies is almost impossible.

And since we're taking a DH caster, don't forget Diabolic Strength

Did you consider that any model he fights is minus one toughness due to his aura? Making the Scything wound on a natural 3 instead of 4, meaning any single +1 wound modifer like Blades would really tip it towards Scything and using the 6s to do the big swings, right? Considering you should get three extra swings from DttFE. Stand by, mathing...

scithyng attacks are only ap -2 and deliver just 1 damage, no sense use them against a castellan, Mortarion unleash 18 attacks considering he hit and wound with all, he can deliver about 10-11 wounds (i already added 3 mortal wounds from blades of putrefaction), remember that castellan will have a 2+ ta so he will save at 4+ your attacks, pretty better use eviscerating blow with -4 to save and straight d6 damage.

 Brymm wrote:
Did you consider that any model he fights is minus one toughness due to his aura? Making the Scything wound on a natural 3 instead of 4, meaning any single +1 wound modifer like Blades would really tip it towards Scything and using the 6s to do the big swings, right? Considering you should get three extra swings from DttFE. Stand by, mathing...

Yes, that's pretty much what I've wrote. Without buff, eviscerating is slightly better, once you buff Mortarion to wound on 2+ with both profile, reaping is slightly better. Since, both powers also add additional damage themselves, so it's no longer a competition.

What are some optimum Plague Marine load outs, for units of 7 or 10.

Are the combat set ups any good?

Bubotic Axe with mace, or with knife?
Are the Plague Cleaver and Flail worth a look?

And also, the champion. Is there a good loadout to always go with?
The ETB guy has a power fist but a Plasma Gun, which seems a bit off.
Would fist with sword be better? Or just fist with knife?

Would it be worth having no power fist at all instead, and just a normal Bolter loadout?

Danny76 wrote:
What are some optimum Plague Marine load outs, for units of 7 or 10.

Are the combat set ups any good?

Bubotic Axe with mace, or with knife?
Are the Plague Cleaver and Flail worth a look?

And also, the champion. Is there a good loadout to always go with?
The ETB guy has a power fist but a Plasma Gun, which seems a bit off.
Would fist with sword be better? Or just fist with knife?

Would it be worth having no power fist at all instead, and just a normal Bolter loadout?

Bubotic axes are good, but then so are 2x knives for the extra attack. Think it depends on what enemy you're facing. Weak hordes you'd want more attacks, against meqs etc you'd probably want the axes.

I don't believe the plague cleaver is thought of very highly. You only get 1 attack, and you only hit on 4s.

Flail is very good on any unit. Personally would always recommend a flail over any other option (unless you're playing a shooty unit, but even then the flail is good anti-charge deterrent).

For the champion, depends again on what you're using the squad for. Fitting in as many Blight Launchers and Plasma Guns as you can is generally a decent option.

Also, you don't need to trade items for the fist it seems, so you can have a Champion with Plasma Gun, Plaguesword and Power Fist. May or may not be worth it, but means you get the option of not attacking at -1 to hit.

With the fist it seems so. But not sure Points wise whether I’d add them (I could potentially have 3 squads, but only 2 blight and 2 plasma total for basic marines..) though each champion could have a Plasma gun..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It basically comes down to 15 Bolters, 2 blight, 2 plasma, 2 axes, flail, plague belcher, plague spewer, cleaver.
Then 4 choices of champion I want to make (different for a couple for choice).
Probably won’t actually field more than two squads at a time I’d think?

Niiru wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
What are some optimum Plague Marine load outs, for units of 7 or 10.

Are the combat set ups any good?

Bubotic Axe with mace, or with knife?
Are the Plague Cleaver and Flail worth a look?

And also, the champion. Is there a good loadout to always go with?
The ETB guy has a power fist but a Plasma Gun, which seems a bit off.
Would fist with sword be better? Or just fist with knife?

Would it be worth having no power fist at all instead, and just a normal Bolter loadout?

Bubotic axes are good, but then so are 2x knives for the extra attack. Think it depends on what enemy you're facing. Weak hordes you'd want more attacks, against meqs etc you'd probably want the axes.

I don't believe the plague cleaver is thought of very highly. You only get 1 attack, and you only hit on 4s.

Flail is very good on any unit. Personally would always recommend a flail over any other option (unless you're playing a shooty unit, but even then the flail is good anti-charge deterrent).

For the champion, depends again on what you're using the squad for. Fitting in as many Blight Launchers and Plasma Guns as you can is generally a decent option.

Also, you don't need to trade items for the fist it seems, so you can have a Champion with Plasma Gun, Plaguesword and Power Fist. May or may not be worth it, but means you get the option of not attacking at -1 to hit.

Axes also get the extra attack, so it's just a matter of paying points for more AP. Also keep in mind that you can have a possessed for the same points as a axe/knife marine.

In general, I would outfit a melee unit with 2 flails, 2 maces for vehicle hunting, 2 axe/knive combos and the rest with dual plague knives to keep the unit from becoming too expensive. Fist on champion is optional.
It also helps that this is exactly what you can get out of two boxes of plague marines without buying extra bits.

Just went 5-0 with pure Death Guard at a 100+ person GT in the great city of Lansing, MI this weekend!


Got dinged for a poor display board, no written theme and not winning 50-0 every game. My biggest win was 35-15. I'll be doing a whole event report this week. Death to the False Emperor!

uhmm going 5-0 with that list means or you were very lucky with parings ur a top player

Danny76 wrote:
What are some optimum Plague Marine load outs, for units of 7 or 10.

Are the combat set ups any good?

Bubotic Axe with mace, or with knife?
Are the Plague Cleaver and Flail worth a look?

And also, the champion. Is there a good loadout to always go with?
The ETB guy has a power fist but a Plasma Gun, which seems a bit off.
Would fist with sword be better? Or just fist with knife?

Would it be worth having no power fist at all instead, and just a normal Bolter loadout?

CC plague marines are pretty dope, with buffs they can be pretty crazy damage. Generally 2 flails is enough for standard targets, axes with buffs, you can re-roll everything with +2 to wound, so 5s deal mortal wounds. You just need a tallyman, warlord trait, psyker and stratagem. Personally I rarely find the power fist does very much work for me. I've been putting it's cost towards more bodies. The biggest thing I always forget is it cant re-roll wounds, and doesn't get to deal mortal wounds from the spell.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
What are some optimum Plague Marine load outs, for units of 7 or 10.

Are the combat set ups any good?

Bubotic Axe with mace, or with knife?
Are the Plague Cleaver and Flail worth a look?

And also, the champion. Is there a good loadout to always go with?
The ETB guy has a power fist but a Plasma Gun, which seems a bit off.
Would fist with sword be better? Or just fist with knife?

Would it be worth having no power fist at all instead, and just a normal Bolter loadout?

CC plague marines are pretty dope, with buffs they can be pretty crazy damage. Generally 2 flails is enough for standard targets, axes with buffs, you can re-roll everything with +2 to wound, so 5s deal mortal wounds. You just need a tallyman, warlord trait, psyker and stratagem. Personally I rarely find the power fist does very much work for me. I've been putting it's cost towards more bodies. The biggest thing I always forget is it cant re-roll wounds, and doesn't get to deal mortal wounds from the spell.

This is a good point about the power fist, no wound re-rolls in a unit where every cc weapon can re-roll.

Personally I'd probably drop the fist in favour of a couple blight launchers. Costs a little more, but they are good weapons.

 blackmage wrote:
uhmm going 5-0 with that list means or you were very lucky with parings ur a top player

I consistently played people with similar battle points. Not winning every game in a land slide made me play players who also didnt win by land slides. I played each game to the best of my abilities and won them.
I'm not sure if your statement was a compliment, a put down or just a statement, but it seems to be untrue. The pairings weren't particularly lucky nor am I a top tier player. I just won the games I played. Thats all you can do, am I right?