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Eh. Just buy a bloat drone to the same job better.

Depends on the job but yeah, a fleshmower bloat drone is a mere 16 points more than a 20 man blob of walkers and will be far more of a threat.

Post CA, pox walkers I now see them as essentially cultists with DR and morale immune - park them on an objective, try to hide and if(when) they die meh. Best case scenario your opponent spends more points then they are to remove them.

Played a game recently where someone sent a tooled up Death Company to take out a unit of poxes on an objective because he drew "Secure Objective 1" - was more than happy for that trade off as it meant my blightlords etc were unharmed and drove up the other flank winning me the game.. was a close one though and if he ignored the walkers with that DC I would have most likely lost.

Anyone tried the Deathshroud Terminators since the points drop? Wow this guys hit like a freight train! For only 126pts they are a steal. I’m thinking of dropping my blightlords to add two units of death shroud. I lose the shooting, but gain tons of str 8 close combat goodness. Also, the boat drones with flesh mowers is a very good deal at 117pts. Getting 10x STR 8 attacks on the charge is very solid.

Hey I can't decide whether my third HQ should be a terminator lord or socerer?
Im already going with two winged princes.
What has the malignant plague caster got over a terminator sorc? Do you think two Princes is enough psykers?

Plague caster is only good if you're trying to buff Infantry.

Princes are usually buffing themselves.

I would probably reccomend a different Psyker (daemon or csm) than more DG powers.

What a Lord can do is babysit. What the Terminator Lord can do is deepstrike. And for that, the Lord of Corruption might be the better distraction.

Ok, I see you asked for Sorcerer.

If you're going for a Termy Sorcerer, why not Typhus?

Typhus seems expensive compared to the term sorcerer since i don't envision running many pox walkers. Maybe I'm underestimating him tho?

I have a black legion army so if i want csm powers i can ally in no problem but I'd really like to build a pure DG army.
The contagion discipline doesn't have a huge array of options in it does it though?

What's the general consensus regarding the points for winged DPs? Do we think the lack of adjustment compared to CSM is an error?
I find it strange that the change is to the wings upgrade, rather than the prince. If they reduced the prince only for CSM i'd understand because of DR. But what's the justifcation for a winged DG version being worth so many extra points over the regular.

Before the points change I could see myself taking a walking prince in a death guard army but never CSM...


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Also, I thought I had my head around it but now I'm not sure. Can I take one of my daemon princes as an index version and then get access to dark hereticus? Or even put a csm daemon prince in without breaking the DG legion trait?

Abaddon303 wrote:
Typhus seems expensive compared to the term sorcerer since i don't envision running many pox walkers. Maybe I'm underestimating him tho?

Ignore the pox walker part. He is very durable and hits like a trukk with his master-crafted manreaper, and can cast two powers. I've had him flip tanks all by himself.

What's the general consensus regarding the points for winged DPs? Do we think the lack of adjustment compared to CSM is an error?

It very likely to be intended, as the DG and TS princes are better than the CSM one.

Also, I thought I had my head around it but now I'm not sure. Can I take one of my daemon princes as an index version and then get access to dark hereticus? Or even put a csm daemon prince in without breaking the DG legion trait?

1) The rules forbid you from using the index for anything but wargear if there is a data sheet in any other codex. So the "Daemon Prince" datasheet can no longer have the Death Guard keyword
2) Indexes are confirmed to go away by next year, which is soon

In general, many DG units don't benefit from the legion trait anyways(vehicles, pox walkers), just put them in a detachment with the CSM prince.

The death guard DP is actually worse than the Daemon one that got the points drop. The Loci make them do far more damage. I think it would be stupid that if GW left the DG DP at higher points because it had access to some good relics/traits.

Has anyone tried Death Shroud Terminators since the points cost. They now seem to be a great bargain.

This is my point. I'd understand the Prince itself dropping but not the wings. It makes taking a winged Prince over a regular for CSM a no brainer.
For DG its not the wings that make the big difference, it's the built in disgustingly resilient.
They should have kept wings at 24pts across the board but adjusted the DP price depending on the codex and abilities

broxus wrote:
The death guard DP is actually worse than the Daemon one that got the points drop. The Loci make them do far more damage. I think it would be stupid that if GW left the DG DP at higher points because it had access to some good relics/traits.

I think being a better unit through relic and warlord traits very much makes a unit worth some points. In addition, the Daemon Prince of Chaos also doesn't buff Death Guard and doesn't get DttFE or Hateful Assault.

 Jidmah wrote:

broxus wrote:
The death guard DP is actually worse than the Daemon one that got the points drop. The Loci make them do far more damage. I think it would be stupid that if GW left the DG DP at higher points because it had access to some good relics/traits.

I think being a better unit through relic and warlord traits very much makes a unit worth some points. In addition, the Daemon Prince of Chaos also doesn't buff Death Guard and doesn't get DttFE or Hateful Assault.

No it doesn’t add to the cost nor should it.

So if one unit sees play and one doesn't, they both should go down in points because they share a profile? Cool story.

 Jidmah wrote:
So if one unit sees play and one doesn't, they both should go down in points because they share a profile? Cool story.

Yes just like they do in every other codex. Also, what army wasn’t playing daemon princes and did they even need a price drop? They were already one of the most common units in the game. Death Guard must take them because every other HQ is garbage. It makes no sense DG players should pay more points for a DP that is worse than others but costs more points because I may put a specific relic/trait on them.

CSM and daemons weren't, that's why their points dropped. Everyone was running Daemon Princes of Tzeench, and those didn't go down.

In addition, a stupid idea stays a stupid idea, even if everybody does it. That units have different worth depending on their stratagems, army rules and relics is the sole reason why we have this nu-marine mess right now.

 Jidmah wrote:
CSM and daemons weren't, that's why their points dropped. Everyone was running Daemon Princes of Tzeench, and those didn't go down.

In addition, a stupid idea stays a stupid idea, even if everybody does it. That units have different worth depending on their stratagems, army rules and relics is the sole reason why we have this nu-marine mess right now.

I guess you forgot the Khorne DP everyone runs that can solo a knight. Maybe in 9th edition it will be the way you say, but it in 8th you don’t charge extra points for relics and traits. Since one plays DG as an army guess all the units should get a points drop also to include the DP.

Can you provide a link to a top 4 placement with that DP?


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broxus wrote:
but it in 8th you don’t charge extra points for relics and traits.

Understood. You are saying that GW should continue with a inherently flawed system instead of gradually improving on it, because you might benefit from it.
So basically you are fine with all daemon princes getting the same point increase that TS got, right?

Jim Vessel did go on his tear end of 2018 and start of 2019 using that Khorne prince. Ancient history but was incredible in the knight heavy meta.

 Jidmah wrote:
Can you provide a link to a top 4 placement with that DP?


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broxus wrote:
but it in 8th you don’t charge extra points for relics and traits.

Understood. You are saying that GW should continue with a inherently flawed system instead of gradually improving on it, because you might benefit from it.
So basically you are fine with all daemon princes getting the same point increase that TS got, right?

Sure can you please send me a link showing a Death Guard DP in a top spot? Or any death guard list in a top spot.

To change the things the way you want them it is impossible to balance and would require an entire edition, Codex, and rules rewrite. Since that isn’t going happen they need to reduce the Death Guard DP to keep it in line with all the other 1x spell casting DPs.

August 2019 Wars on the Shore, First Place taken by guy running 1 Daemon Prince of Nurgle, 2 Daemon Princes of Tzeench and 0 others. And I found that without even trying, just have a look at any chaos soup with blight lords in it, all of them run the daemon prince of nurgle as HQ.

Since you have refuted your own argument, not answered to single of my arguments and are now moving goal posts, we are done here.
It's basically just "Wah wah, I want what they got".


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 Brymm wrote:
Jim Vessel did go on his tear end of 2018 and start of 2019 using that Khorne prince. Ancient history but was incredible in the knight heavy meta.

I'm pretty sure it got killed by limiting daemon princes to 3 though, I don't think anyone would pick it over a DP of Tzeench or Nurgle.

 Jidmah wrote:
August 2019 Wars on the Shore, First Place taken by guy running 1 Daemon Prince of Nurgle, 2 Daemon Princes of Tzeench and 0 others. And I found that without even trying, just have a look at any chaos soup with blight lords in it, all of them run the daemon prince of nurgle as HQ.

Since you have refuted your own argument, not answered to single of my arguments and are now moving goal posts, we are done here.
It's basically just "Wah wah, I want what they got".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brymm wrote:
Jim Vessel did go on his tear end of 2018 and start of 2019 using that Khorne prince. Ancient history but was incredible in the knight heavy meta.

I'm pretty sure it got killed by limiting daemon princes to 3 though, I don't think anyone would pick it over a DP of Tzeench or Nurgle.

You are joking right? A 30 person local tournament is what you are going to cite. Jim Vesal won Adepticon with a Khorne Daemon Prince is that not enough proof for you? Remember it was just reduced in points unlike the DG daemon prince. You are obviously just trolling this thread, a space marine player trying to maintain your favorable meta, or don’t actually play 40k. Regardless, I’m done responding to these nonsensical arguments.

broxus wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
August 2019 Wars on the Shore, First Place taken by guy running 1 Daemon Prince of Nurgle, 2 Daemon Princes of Tzeench and 0 others. And I found that without even trying, just have a look at any chaos soup with blight lords in it, all of them run the daemon prince of nurgle as HQ.

Since you have refuted your own argument, not answered to single of my arguments and are now moving goal posts, we are done here.
It's basically just "Wah wah, I want what they got".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brymm wrote:
Jim Vessel did go on his tear end of 2018 and start of 2019 using that Khorne prince. Ancient history but was incredible in the knight heavy meta.

I'm pretty sure it got killed by limiting daemon princes to 3 though, I don't think anyone would pick it over a DP of Tzeench or Nurgle.

You are joking right? A 30 person local tournament is what you are going to cite. Jim Vesal won Adepticon with a Khorne Daemon Prince and that is that not enough proof for you? You are obviously just trolling this thread, a space marine player trying to maintain your favorable meta, or don’t actually play 40k. Regardless, I’m done responding to these nonsensical arguments.

What was it armed with? I'm just curious.

Daemonic axe and skullreaver.

I'll be sure to keep that one in my army then.

broxus wrote:
Remember it was just reduced in points unlike the DG daemon prince. You are obviously just trolling this thread, a space marine player trying to maintain your favorable meta, or don’t actually play 40k. Regardless, I’m done responding to these nonsensical arguments.

"I'm out of arguments, so I'm going to attack you instead with insults that are easily verifiable as false, since I never did care about facts in the first place, but only about being right".
Great discussion

Has anyone tried Death Shroud Terminators since the points drop? I have used them in two games so far and they are crushing things for only 126pts. It makes me wonder why anyone would ever take a lord of contagion which is almost the same points, but worse in every way.

I haven't but plan to. I think there's serious mileage in using Mortartion and 2 3 man squads, one on the board for first turn if you don't go first, second in reserve to plop down and keep protecting as you push up field.
To make matters worse, a single Blight Hauler increases the survivability of that squad by 100% (double!) Vs ap1 shooting like Lootas and mass bolter fire. Since the Deathshroud actually take the hits instead of taking mortal wounds or something, they benefit from cover. For those 6 wounds, Morty basically has a 1+/4+/5++, which is just bonkers. It would encourage you to use him a lot less like a guided missile and more like a floating nightmare that lets you control the center of the board. I like it.

Great. Now I no longer have an excuse to not get two boxes

Has anyone heard rumors when we get an update in PA??

i belive we will recieve update on the next book "The Greater Good" since our codex had lore and art about DG vs Tau

Agree. The last book is Space Wolves vs Orks, and I don't think Death Guard have place in that. We should look closely at what TS get in this one though, it's very likely that our update will look very similar, except replace all the nines with sevens

When you think about it, Nurgle's care for is subjects is also some really twisted interpretation of "The Greater Good"