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 lare2 wrote:
I'm hearing rumours of big wound models only being allowed to take a certain amount of wounds per phase, a la Ghazghkull Thraka. Included are primarchs.

Source?

I have head none of the kind, and recent PAs quite clearly only hand out this ability to a selected few models.

 Jidmah wrote:

 lare2 wrote:
I'm hearing rumours of big wound models only being allowed to take a certain amount of wounds per phase, a la Ghazghkull Thraka. Included are primarchs.

Source?

I have head none of the kind, and recent PAs quite clearly only hand out this ability to a selected few models.

Nothing solid I'm afraid. Just fb groups and whatnot. Would be awesome if true though. Apparently a playtester squealed. No idea if true.


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Supreme Command Detachment. Run Morty for free but he must be your Warlord.

Full rules leak. Too many to post but here are the detachments.

Team, you can only have a maximum of +1 to both your hit AND WOUND rolls. A pretty serious nerf to DG/Nurgle who really rely on this to up mortal wounds and damage output for units. Ohh well..... Hopefully the points change will be kind to the DG. They were very kind to the SMs and we are far more worse off than them.

I expect the following changes to our points:
PBCs +20
Entropy Cannons +5
Plague Marines +2
Bloat Drones +15
Poxwalkers +1
Lord of Contagion +7
Typhus +10
Demon Prince +10
Blight haulers +8

jivardi wrote:
6 CP for a 9" charge that ISN'T guaranteed?

I like the Mortarion model but paying 3 CP to put him in SR on top of the 3 CP needed to field him is a lot of CP.

Starting with 12, adding relics and pre-game stratagems will drain you to almost nothing.

I don't quite like the idea of starting the game with like 4 CP

It’s not guaranteed, no, and if it’s true the CRR forces a reroll of all dice, then it’s much less likely as you can’t stick a five or six and fish, but on the other hand he can arrive alongside some Deathshroud, which is something

At least taking a SCD allows you to take a core detachment free so long as Morty is Warlord.

So it's only 3 CP, not 6. That's huge.

You still lose arch-contaminator which is pretty essential to our damage output and does next to nothing for Mortarion himself.

Still, being able to show up on a board edge protected by some deathshrouds doing the Mortarion's Chosen Son's flamer combo might be vastly better than what we have now.

Note that you can bring a nurgle tree detachment for just one CP, so that is still an option as well.

Outside of that, most rule changes seem to be very favorable towards death guard. Being able to fight up 5" is also very nice for our daemon engines and infantry that is too slow to climb a ruin and get back down again over the course of a game.

Something that I saw were the rules for reinforcement points - unless the FAQ something poxwalkers can go above starting size free of charge again.

I think one of the biggest is our PBC's still hit on 4+ when they move.

I never honestly saw the hype over them in 8th. Sometimes I would have to move my PBC's to get LoS and then I missed shot anyway.

Plus, if I play my DG as the company that can give my DE a 4+ invul that makes the pBC's even better.

The trick to them in 8th was not using them as tanks, but like your would use a melee unit.
Now finally using them as tanks might actually be valuable, though the "melee" variant with spitter also got quite the update since it can now shoot while in combat.

Yeah that can’t be stated enough, I used bloat drones over PBCs in list because of fly and being able to advance and flame, next turn move, flame and assault, then fall back and flame the next turn. Now, flaming while in combat and fly having nothing to do with shooting, PBCs are just better, particularly the spitter variant. I believe the 4+ invulnerable version list of 3 PBC and 3 bloat drones is a scary list in this new edition.

After WotS I'm liking a unit of 5 spawn with the FNP upgrade. The demons toll relic thrown in the mix as well. This makes them 4 wounds each at T5 5++/5+++

This gives a great blob for midfield or objective control that is only 100pts.

I've decided on what I am going to try for my first game back in 9th.

i'm going to run Morty, plus a wretched battalion.
Rhinos with PMs in it as base troops.
Some characters (undecided yet)
And a unit of Deathshroud.

Turn 1 zerg rush
Turn 2 Morty comes in along with Deathshroud, hopefully with a 9" charge possible.
Also summon a 20 man PB squad .
Turn 3... Carnage

Could be that summoning happens turn 1 depending on if I think I will be close enough or not.

This is likley not at all competetive, but it's a new way to play so I'm willing to give it a go.

I'm not sure I understand the current school of thought on the PBC. I've been seeing a lot of people say that moving it up the board is better than sitting it in your deployment zone and shooting from out of LOS. I can see the appeal of plaguespitters... but they only have a 9'' range, and 2d6 shots is 7 S7 D1 shots on average... and if you're in range to shoot the plaguespitters, you're too close to fire the mortar.

What am I missing? I'm not sure I understand what the unit's strength is, especially compared to like butcher cannon dreads.

Edit- having said all this, I guess we can look forward to vehicles no longer getting a -1 to hit for moving. That'll be a nice buff.

https://youtu.be/-Chztbz0mpY

Good video by TT on how 9th has affected DG.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the current school of thought on the PBC. I've been seeing a lot of people say that moving it up the board is better than sitting it in your deployment zone and shooting from out of LOS. I can see the appeal of plaguespitters... but they only have a 9'' range, and 2d6 shots is 7 S7 D1 shots on average... and if you're in range to shoot the plaguespitters, you're too close to fire the mortar.

What am I missing? I'm not sure I understand what the unit's strength is, especially compared to like butcher cannon dreads.

Edit- having said all this, I guess we can look forward to vehicles no longer getting a -1 to hit for moving. That'll be a nice buff.

Most whinge that 4+ BS just isn't good enough and prefer the autohits of the spitters. In truth, as someone who runs 3x entropy, the 4+ does hurt. When they flop, they flop hard.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the current school of thought on the PBC. I've been seeing a lot of people say that moving it up the board is better than sitting it in your deployment zone and shooting from out of LOS. I can see the appeal of plaguespitters... but they only have a 9'' range, and 2d6 shots is 7 S7 D1 shots on average... and if you're in range to shoot the plaguespitters, you're too close to fire the mortar.

What am I missing? I'm not sure I understand what the unit's strength is, especially compared to like butcher cannon dreads.

Edit- having said all this, I guess we can look forward to vehicles no longer getting a -1 to hit for moving. That'll be a nice buff.

The thing is the spitter PBC is not a shooting unit like a butcher cannon dread. Replacing the entropy cannons with spitters transforms it a completely different unit.
It's strength is that it is nigh impossible to destroy efficiently, so it can race up the board at full speed, reliably put wounds on anything up to S7 and then drive face first into as many units as possible, forcing them fall back or stay locked in combat with it indefinitely. Even if they grind it down, you can just blow it up and cover half your opponent's castle in d3 mortal wounds. Due to the bulk of the PBC multiple can also create a moving wall which blocks sight and movement off from entire sections of the board.
While doing so, you just randomly fire the mortar at whatever you are allowed to shot, whether you hit or not doesn't matter.

Someone here described them as moving pieces of terrain, and that's basically what a spitter PBC is. You use them for disruption, not for killing power.

Depending on my list I run them either way since it's ridiculously easy to magnetize them. They simply aren't the same unit and therefore hard to compare directly.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the current school of thought on the PBC. I've been seeing a lot of people say that moving it up the board is better than sitting it in your deployment zone and shooting from out of LOS. I can see the appeal of plaguespitters... but they only have a 9'' range, and 2d6 shots is 7 S7 D1 shots on average... and if you're in range to shoot the plaguespitters, you're too close to fire the mortar.

What am I missing? I'm not sure I understand what the unit's strength is, especially compared to like butcher cannon dreads.

Edit- having said all this, I guess we can look forward to vehicles no longer getting a -1 to hit for moving. That'll be a nice buff.

So, to echo the above, the spitter PBCs actually play to the DG's strengths. It's a truth of the army that we don't actually kill much in the shooting phase. No really, DG just don't have offensive capabilities in shooting. Entropy cannons, even with the upgrades from WotS are a trap because it locks you into playing a static castle style which we just are not good at.

But fear not for the PBC because we have access to spitters. This allows them to be a useful and in line with how the army wants to play. How is that you ask? As a defensive midfield, objective focused, force. PBCs become not only rolling LoS blocking but are extremely tough tarpits and blockers.

Best part? This will be one of the best army styles in 9th. PBCs get even better with spitters since they can now shoot them into CC.

I always run PBC with entropy Cannons. They are so good now. Even with a BS4 they put out so much damage. Their -4 AP means normally units never get a save.

The spitters over the course of a game just aren’t not worth it. You may get the chance to maybe use them twice if you are lucky. In contrast entropy Cannons start killing stuff turns one to five. When you put a lord next to the with arch-contaminator they with a minimum damage of 3 they are very reliable.

Bottom line the damage between spitters or Cannons isn’t even close. Especially, ow you can now move and shoot your PBC without any penalty.

I’m really disappointed that supreme command requires morty to be warlord, as it means we can’t use this detachment and get the 4++ relic (or any other plague company relics or warlord traits.) In the general plague companies requiring your warlord hail from their detachment to get access to their warlord traits and relics really sucks. Means you’ll run morty with his anvil company, as the you still can use the -1 damage stratagem on terminators. That or the summoning company. That or more likely you just won’t run him for the 4++.

As far as plague burst crawlers are considered, 4+ in entropy cannons make them less interesting for me than spitters. Sure there will be games where you roll hot and those cannons will do work, but in a 5+ round tournament you really can’t count on it this happening the time. In general board control crawlers will be the best choice, as you can pretty much guarantee they will do a job.

Tabletop Titans did a faction focus today on DG.

Looks as if DG are for the most part better in 9th; a few nerfs but the benefits outweigh the nerfs.

Mid board is what we are good at and the missions in 9th are designed around the mid board. Plus we are resilient enough to stick around to cap objectives.

broxus wrote:
I always run PBC with entropy Cannons. They are so good now. Even with a BS4 they put out so much damage. Their -4 AP means normally units never get a save.

The spitters over the course of a game just aren’t not worth it. You may get the chance to maybe use them twice if you are lucky. In contrast entropy Cannons start killing stuff turns one to five. When you put a lord next to the with arch-contaminator they with a minimum damage of 3 they are very reliable.

Bottom line the damage between spitters or Cannons isn’t even close. Especially, ow you can now move and shoot your PBC without any penalty.

If you are calculating the damage of a PBC with spitters you have already failed to understand how they work. Damage is irrelevant to their utility role - you don't take chaos lords because of their damage output either.


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Salt donkey wrote:
I’m really disappointed that supreme command requires morty to be warlord, as it means we can’t use this detachment and get the 4++ relic (or any other plague company relics or warlord traits.) In the general plague companies requiring your warlord hail from their detachment to get access to their warlord traits and relics really sucks. Means you’ll run morty with his anvil company, as the you still can use the -1 damage stratagem on terminators. That or the summoning company. That or more likely you just won’t run him for the 4++.

I also like the idea of running him with his Chosen Sons. When he walks on you can deep-strike a unit of Death Shrouds within 3" of him and have the use the +1 range stratagem and the extra damage stratagem to kill some vehicles or primaris with their gauntlets. As Mortarion would be having the arch-contaminator trait, they also would be re-rolling their wounds to mitigate the low strength.

Another though I'm having is to bring a single ML/lascannon hellbrute along each game to stack fire fever and fire frenzy on it every turn, allowing for six shots with full re-rolls for just two CP.

Anyone had any luck figuring out what the new PA stratagem “Creeping Blight” does and which units it cold be used on? The term “add 1 to any damage roll made”. Does this just +1 damage to all melee weapons or only ones with rollable damage. Also, what weapons even have variable damage other than plague probes and manreapers.

Weapons with fixed damage don't do a damage roll, so it really only affects weapons with random damage.

Random damage weapons would be force weapons, power fists, the plague caster's staff, manreapers, Silence, great plague cleavers, helbrute hammer, plague probe, defiler claws and the plaguebringer relic.

Or, in other words, this stratagem can be used in Mortarion, defilers or deathshrouds to increase their damage and rarely on single characters or drones if you really need something dead.

I just watched the Tabletop Titans report. Never seen their work before, but it was a good watch. They did a really nice job. Unfortunately, they kind of glossed over how big the new mission set ups are for us. They talked about how, the new objectives tend to be fairly spread out and you have to hold more than one typically, so this means separating units from our characters. They also mentioned how DG “Dont function as well without those auras.” I would argue they don’t function period without those auras and since mono DG is probably more hurt by the new army construction rules than helped, I’m at a bit of a loss as to how to deal with that.

Wondering if taking a full brigade just became mandatory for any DG players who want to have enough elites, but don’t want to pay more co for additional detachments?

A battalion has six slots for elites (not 3 like old editions), that should be plenty for any army you want. A brigade is a tight fit at current point levels, if everything goes up by 10-20% like it did for marines, I doubt you could build a decent brigade out of it.

As for holding multiple objectives, we have some things that can break off from the main body of our army and still function: A DP with drone bodyguards, blightlords and PBC. Some other vehicles upgraded with DR like the helbrute, defiler or predator might also be able to secure objectives temporarily since they can now move and shoot without penalty.

 Jidmah wrote:
Weapons with fixed damage don't do a damage roll, so it really only affects weapons with random damage.

Random damage weapons would be force weapons, power fists, the plague caster's staff, manreapers, Silence, great plague cleavers, helbrute hammer, plague probe, defiler claws and the plaguebringer relic.

Or, in other words, this stratagem can be used in Mortarion, defilers or deathshrouds to increase their damage and rarely on single characters or drones if you really need something dead.

It is just worded really weird. I’m curious if this is RAI and I’m looking forward to the FAQ for it. It is pretty useless as is.

I've already written them a mail about it. I suggest doing the same, more mails increase the chance of actually getting an answer.

40KFAQ@gwplc.com

Tycho wrote:
I just watched the Tabletop Titans report. Never seen their work before, but it was a good watch. They did a really nice job. Unfortunately, they kind of glossed over how big the new mission set ups are for us. They talked about how, the new objectives tend to be fairly spread out and you have to hold more than one typically, so this means separating units from our characters. They also mentioned how DG “Dont function as well without those auras.” I would argue they don’t function period without those auras and since mono DG is probably more hurt by the new army construction rules than helped, I’m at a bit of a loss as to how to deal with that.

Wondering if taking a full brigade just became mandatory for any DG players who want to have enough elites, but don’t want to pay more co for additional detachments?

They explain fairly well in their faction focus for DG how DG operate, some strats for using terrain to our advantage and playing the mission. DG are one of the strongest armies right now for 9th, I think they rated them somewhere in the top 5 Out of 30 armies that's really good. Ad Mech are apparently the strongest in 9th now, even more than SM in their opinion.

It's harder to screen our characters because of the changes to Look out Sir but we do have lots of good characters and lots of them are elites allowing us to take multiples (obviously not of the named ones). DG move slower than most armies as well but you can't score primary objective VP turn 1 and so the slow start to reach mid board by turn 2 isn't really an issue and since kills aren't necessary for the most party anymore we just advance everything up Turn 1, buff our units with psy powers and wait for the enemy to come to us. PBC's and Defilers are going to be really good for harassing units and whittling them down before they hit our lines, our Pox and PM can handle the enemy when they get close. We have the resiliency to take quite the beating and with a few stratagems and melee oriented PM load-outs we can hit back hard too.

DG are definitely in a better place than they were in 8th.

 Jidmah wrote:

broxus wrote:
I always run PBC with entropy Cannons. They are so good now. Even with a BS4 they put out so much damage. Their -4 AP means normally units never get a save.

The spitters over the course of a game just aren’t not worth it. You may get the chance to maybe use them twice if you are lucky. In contrast entropy Cannons start killing stuff turns one to five. When you put a lord next to the with arch-contaminator they with a minimum damage of 3 they are very reliable.

Bottom line the damage between spitters or Cannons isn’t even close. Especially, ow you can now move and shoot your PBC without any penalty.

If you are calculating the damage of a PBC with spitters you have already failed to understand how they work. Damage is irrelevant to their utility role - you don't take chaos lords because of their damage output either.

@I do take PBC and Chaos Lords for their damage output. They work amazing well especially in 9th. I use my DP and Fleshmower Bloat Drones as my bullies. At 116pts each they can’t be ignored and can chew through units. It is also almost mandatory to take 1-2 Foul Blightspawns. I take 3 units of Poxwalkers to hold objectives. This core army has worked very well for me for 8th and my 9th games.

The areas I am struggling with in 9th:
-Is it worth taking 3x blight haulers? (With the buff PBC do need the extra anti tank?)
-5 blightlords vs 5 deathshroud? Deathshroud do far more damage and objectives being so important they are less likely to get kited
-I really like the exalted GOU with revolting resilient and +1 wound relic. (I have looked and it seems I can take relics/traits from both books). He is the ultimate distraction carnifex and is so hard to kill with solid damage.
-Defilers seem interesting, though the new terrain rules make larger models hard to use (even GOU) especially since they can’t charge through the front side of ruins window/doors and have to find a space to and fit through. Infantry can kite them around so easy just by walking through the walls.


I still can’t see the purpose in plague marines at their current wounds and points when compared to terminators.

Honestly everything comes down to the points increases we will get.

broxus wrote:
@I do take PBC and Chaos Lords for their damage output

You don't take a chaos lord because of its damage output. It's damage output is a combi-bolter and a powerfist at best. You take them because of their aura.
For the same reason, you don't take a PBC with spitter for the damage output, put for their ability to disrupt enemy shooting and movement. If your PBC charges a tank commander, it won't be able to shoot for the rest of the game, and the spitters make sure that chaff won't get in the way of that.