Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I of course use the lord for his auras (arch contaminatior also). Though in ever since our PA dropped I have started using the LoC and giving him additional him a furnace relic (4 auras total). He has proven to be very powerful! I again use my fleshmower drones with the fly keyword and speed to tie units up for a mere 116pts. They can also fly over screens.

A chaos lord with plaguebringer can do some serious damage.

I prefer the new sword for smashing shining spears, harlequins and daemons

Who are we liking for a Furnace carrier? Winged DP for a squadron of drones & haulers, CL for a battery of PBC’s? Stack it with Arch-contaminator?

 lare2 wrote:
A chaos lord with plaguebringer can do some serious damage.

Agreed, prior to PA I ran the lord. However, I just have issues with him not being toughness 5. I know I lose some competitiveness because of this. I do like my LoC with my fire base so far. Even against snipers he is super tough and very deadly (though slow as a snail and 40pts more). That extras survivability is very handy since with 4 auras he is a very big target.


I also like putting the furnace on him, because my DP gets the sword relic. I’m just sad the +3 attacks strategem doesn’t work on it.

9th edition playtesters seem to think it does. GW really needs to clarify this relic upgrade thing.

 Jidmah wrote:
Something that I saw were the rules for reinforcement points - unless the FAQ something poxwalkers can go above starting size free of charge again.

I know its early days, but do you reckon that's for real?

I remember that only a few people caught on to the Plague Blossom when it was legit: it was almost impossible to stop once it got started.

Is the DG FAQ redundant in 9th?

I disappionted in typhus weapon, his the destroyer hive should change to auto-hit or at least plague weapon. the weapon is almost useless with 6" range.

kaiseric wrote:
I disappionted in typhus weapon, his the destroyer hive should change to auto-hit or at least plague weapon. the weapon is almost useless with 6" range.

Yep, it sucks.

Samii wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Something that I saw were the rules for reinforcement points - unless the FAQ something poxwalkers can go above starting size free of charge again.

I know its early days, but do you reckon that's for real?

I remember that only a few people caught on to the Plague Blossom when it was legit: it was almost impossible to stop once it got started.

Is the DG FAQ redundant in 9th?

There will be new FAQs for all factions, let's see what survives. It just struck me as odd that they didn't have a line about units exceeding starting size in the paragraph about reinforcement points.

When you think about it, the whole reason why this was an issue was because of souping horrors with pox walkers and conga-lining towards the enemy. With both of those things being much less of an issue, there might be no reason to not allow pox walkers to grow indefinitely again.

I was curious people’s thoughts on which is better in 9th edition 5x Deathshroud vs 5x Blightlords. Since 9th edition is based so much more on objectives and less about killing you now know where you opponent must go and stand on the board. Suddenly kiting Death Guard Terminators is a viable tactic. Additionally, the ability to only add +1 to our wound rolls has limited damage output. Additionally, the DG’s new strategems have created some new possibilities and different ways to play units.

So I will break down both units and I would be interested in hearing others thoughts

BLIGHT LORDS
-4x Blightlords with axes/combi bolter & 1x Flail
-Total cost of 208 points
-Aura of rust gives weapons an additional -1 AP on a wound roll of 6+
-Gain the benefit of malicious volleys with their combi bolters
-16 combi bolter shots STR 4 and damage 1
-Axes are +1 STR ,-2 AP, 1 damage
-Flail 3D3 (average 6) attacks on charge, -2AP, and 2 damage (wounds carry over).

Average Blightlord damage:
Wounds against Guardsman: (Axes=6.7; Flail=7.8; combi-bolters=4.7) Total Damage=19.2
Wounds against Marine: (Axes=4.8; Flail=4.4; combi-bolters=1.8) Total Damage=10.2
Wounds against standard T7 vehicle: Axes=2.5; Flail=2.3; combi-bolters=1.2) Total Damage=6

Key Blightlord Strategems:
-Relentless Volleys strategem gives a minor boost to damage for Blightlords
-The Vermid Whispers strategem gives a moderate boost to hits for Blightlords (good until they change death to the false emperor to only work on unmodified wound rolls of 6+)

DEATH SHROUD
-5 Deathshroud with Manreapers and Plaguespurt Guantlets
-Total cost of 210 points
-Gives any friendly Death Guard character an extra attack within 3”
-Able to intercept a hit on a 2+ for a DG character
-Manreaper are +3 STR (STR 8), -3 AP, D3 damage
-6D6 Plaguespurt Gauntlet shots STR 3, damage 1, plague weapon, auto hit.

Average Deathshroud damage:
-Wounds against Guardsman: (Manreaper=27.2; Gauntlets =8.2) Total Damage=27.2 (22 dead models)
-Wounds against Marine: (Manreaper=22.7; Gauntlets=2.7) Total Damage=25.4 (14 dead models)
-Wounds against T7 vehicle: (Manreaper=18.1; Gauntlets =1.3) Total Damage=19.4

Key Deathshroud Strategems:
-The Creeping Blight strategem can dramatically increase Deathshroud damage even more against multi wound units.
-Overwhelming Generosity can increase the Plaguespurt Guantlets range to 12”.
-The Plague Brewers strategem makes Plaguespurt Guantlets Damage 2 for great damage when used in conjunction with VoTLW and arch contaminator warlord trait.

FINDINGS:
Both units have improved after our PA book. However, in 9th edition and the way battles are fought Deathshroud are likely always the better choice for clearing and holding objectives. They almost always put out far more damage than blightlords and have more strategems that benefit them. They are also very resilient and synergize very well in the “Sons of Mortarion” company which allows rerolling DRs of 1 and 2. Always keep a foul blightspawn near them and they will destroy everything that they fight. Is 9th edition when they finally become viable and steal the spotlight? I guess we will have to wait and see what the points changes are.

I like the analysis. I feel blightlords still have better utility since they shoot and have good CC which makes a perfect unit to sit on an objective. The new strategems also bump up their anti-infantry capabilities immensely.

Deathshroud are a hammer. You can juice them up for extra utility now as well with the new strategems. But they feel very wasted in terms of objective sitting which again makes blightlords a generally superior choice.

 buddha wrote:
I like the analysis. I feel blightlords still have better utility since they shoot and have good CC which makes a perfect unit to sit on an objective. The new strategems also bump up their anti-infantry capabilities immensely.

Deathshroud are a hammer. You can juice them up for extra utility now as well with the new strategems. But they feel very wasted in terms of objective sitting which again makes blightlords a generally superior choice.

Maybe, but I just dont feel the 16 bolter shots are the selling point for me. If they take a front objective with a plague surgeon and blightspawn they are going to be very hard to shift off that. Charging them is suicide for any unit and they will attack before the charging unit. They also deal with vehicles very well unlike the blightlords. At least there is a discussion after the PA book. They use to be terrible all together.

So, I played a game of mock 9th yesterday and got my ass handed because I failed to properly screen my characters with the new rules.
Lessons need to be learned. Turns out that a unit of 5 plague marines only protects them until you lose three, then they can be shot by anything that wants to shoot them.

Does anyone have an idea how to get multiple primaris units off objectives with pure DG? Outside of charging them with a daemon prince I was kind of at a loss to what to do about them.

 Jidmah wrote:
So, I played a game of mock 9th yesterday and got my ass handed because I failed to properly screen my characters with the new rules.
Lessons need to be learned. Turns out that a unit of 5 plague marines only protects them until you lose three, then they can be shot by anything that wants to shoot them.

Does anyone have an idea how to get multiple primaris units off objectives with pure DG? Outside of charging them with a daemon prince I was kind of at a loss to what to do about them.

I have enjoyed reasonable success with Plagueburst Crawlers, and units of Plague Marines deploying out of Termite Assault Drills. 10d6 2 damage Blight Grenades (which deal mortal wounds on 5s/6s, assuming VotLW) are potent against 2-wound Primaris Marines.

 Jidmah wrote:
So, I played a game of mock 9th yesterday and got my ass handed because I failed to properly screen my characters with the new rules.
Lessons need to be learned. Turns out that a unit of 5 plague marines only protects them until you lose three, then they can be shot by anything that wants to shoot them.

Does anyone have an idea how to get multiple primaris units off objectives with pure DG? Outside of charging them with a daemon prince I was kind of at a loss to what to do about them.

Well if you want 14+ dead take a unit of deathshroud as I highlighted in my a analysis above. It is a cheap 210 points for a way to clear off 280 pts of intercessors in one turn. (More like 20 if you wanted to burn some strategems)

In contrast those intercessors would likely cause only 1 wound if they all were able to shoot at the deathshroud in cover.

The scenario you described is exactly why I think the death yard worth taking now to clear and old objectives.

Does anyone have an idea how to get multiple primaris units off objectives with pure DG? Outside of charging them with a daemon prince I was kind of at a loss to what to do about them.

Demon Engines, Demon Princes, and some of the new strats.

Fleshmowers make short work of them. Especially if you can weaken them with some shots from the PBC first. A tooled up DP and 2 Fleshmowers do real work.

Since Plague war, I've also has big success (agains Iron Hands no less) with large squads of Plague marines. Moving them upfield with the bell boy (and the 5+ invuln. relic he can now take), and spending the strat from "Mortarions Chosen Sons" to make the Surgeon let them reroll DRs of 1 and 2, helps the survivability. Then you pop the strat that makes the bolters plague weapons with -4ap on 6's, and the strat that lets them double shoot. A large squad of Marines like this, combined with supporting DPs and Demon Engines is suddenly pretty mean again.

I tend to bring plasma and blightlauncher squads of PM to deal with Primaris. But fact remains we are not the most offensive army and we struggle to deal with multiple tough units at a time.

broxus wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
So, I played a game of mock 9th yesterday and got my ass handed because I failed to properly screen my characters with the new rules.
Lessons need to be learned. Turns out that a unit of 5 plague marines only protects them until you lose three, then they can be shot by anything that wants to shoot them.

Does anyone have an idea how to get multiple primaris units off objectives with pure DG? Outside of charging them with a daemon prince I was kind of at a loss to what to do about them.

Well if you want 14+ dead take a unit of deathshroud as I highlighted in my a analysis above. It is a cheap 210 points for a way to clear off 280 pts of intercessors in one turn. (More like 20 if you wanted to burn some strategems)

In contrast those intercessors would likely cause only 1 wound if they all were able to shoot at the deathshroud in cover.

The scenario you described is exactly why I think the death yard worth taking now to clear and old objectives.

Maybe. Deathshrouds are extremely slow though and have no help succeeding their deep strikes. I had a unit of blightlords in that game which failed their second turn charge and only started killing their first unit by turn 3. I doubt that a second unit of slow terminators would solve my problems.

I actually had one unit of seven plague marines throw a volley of hyper-plague grenades at them, but they only manage to kill three helblasters with it.

Almost all the primaris were sitting cover, so pretty much everything but plasma shots bounced off them.

I will give the death blob and the flesh mower a try though. Maybe even going to toy with a DR defiler just to see how that goes.

I seats run 2-3 fleshmowers with a DP to hit the objective opposite of my terminators. Both work well.

So I have another question for you guys, who here tried the Wyrmspitter and what were your results so far? When I first looked at it it seemed like a decent relic, greatly improving my PM blobs with Arch Contaminator nearby but having tried it twice so far it's impact seems to be minimal.
The issues I run into are firstly it's limited range and secondly the amount of terrain on the board combined with our slow speed. In 2 games I only really got to use it effectively for one round.
Edit: For reference I took mine on a footslogging lord marching along my main blob of marines.

If you start your Lord in a Rhino, you can increase their reach by 3”

Not enough to tag a stationary foe in 24” deployment, but still useful

Speaking of deceptively long reach - anyone tried dropping a score of Plague Marines out of a Kharybdis? Nineteen stabby boys plus a Putrifier, pop VotLW & Overwhelming Generosity, maybe have a Blight-Hauler pop Parasitic Fumes, have a DPoN Arch-Contaminator rendezvous - that’s deleting pretty much anything within 12”, and a chance of a cheeky charge against the survivors

Man, I really want to like entropy cannons. They just don't seem to stack up against the plaguespitters though with those 4's to hit, even with accelerated entropy. With arch-contaminator buff+CL buff they have similar damage output to plaguespitters against T8 while vastly worse against infantry. Their only saving grace is the better range but that gets you what, a slightly better alpha strike from T1? With 9e maps getting smaller the 18'' threat range of PS will definitely get you in range by turn 2, and even by turn 1 against a lot of people, with the increased emphasis on mid-board control. Also I feel like with the new terrain rules you'll be hitting at 5+ most of the time.

Between the furnace, arch-contaminator and 9e rules I just don't see a argument for not running PBC's+CL up the board with plaguespitters and cleaning house. If you want a backline vehicle a butcher dread seems a lot more efficient.

My puss filled friends, all we want for 9e xmas is 2 wound plague marines. May we pray to papa Nurgle.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Man, I really want to like entropy cannons. They just don't seem to stack up against the plaguespitters though with those 4's to hit, even with accelerated entropy. With arch-contaminator buff+CL buff they have similar damage output to plaguespitters against T8 while vastly worse against infantry. Their only saving grace is the better range but that gets you what, a slightly better alpha strike from T1? With 9e maps getting smaller the 18'' threat range of PS will definitely get you in range by turn 2, and even by turn 1 against a lot of people, with the increased emphasis on mid-board control. Also I feel like with the new terrain rules you'll be hitting at 5+ most of the time.

Between the furnace, arch-contaminator and 9e rules I just don't see a argument for not running PBC's+CL up the board with plaguespitters and cleaning house. If you want a backline vehicle a butcher dread seems a lot more efficient.

PBC with Entropy Cannons with the accelerated entropy does some serious damage to enemy armor. Between the mortar and the cannons 3x PBCs can destroy almost any tank in the game in one round of shooting. Additionally, they are stupid hard to kill in return for a measly 138pts. I have never once had them not gain their points back in a game. I also run 2-3 flesh mowers with a DP up the table which my opponents have to deal with ASAP.

 Castozor wrote:
So I have another question for you guys, who here tried the Wyrmspitter and what were your results so far? When I first looked at it it seemed like a decent relic, greatly improving my PM blobs with Arch Contaminator nearby but having tried it twice so far it's impact seems to be minimal.
The issues I run into are firstly it's limited range and secondly the amount of terrain on the board combined with our slow speed. In 2 games I only really got to use it effectively for one round.
Edit: For reference I took mine on a footslogging lord marching along my main blob of marines.

I tried it, and honestly, it sucks. 14" range on a infantry character prevents it from getting near anything valuable until the game is decided or you are out of CP to combo off it. In 9th edition you also face the challenge of changed character targeting rules, so unless there is a daemon engine baby-sitting your characters, they will get blown away.
Considering how many awesome relics we have now, I'd put in somewhere in the "fun, but no great" category.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Castozor wrote:
So I have another question for you guys, who here tried the Wyrmspitter and what were your results so far? When I first looked at it it seemed like a decent relic, greatly improving my PM blobs with Arch Contaminator nearby but having tried it twice so far it's impact seems to be minimal.
The issues I run into are firstly it's limited range and secondly the amount of terrain on the board combined with our slow speed. In 2 games I only really got to use it effectively for one round.
Edit: For reference I took mine on a footslogging lord marching along my main blob of marines.

I tried it, and honestly, it sucks. 14" range on a infantry character prevents it from getting near anything valuable until the game is decided or you are out of CP to combo off it. In 9th edition you also face the challenge of changed character targeting rules, so unless there is a daemon engine baby-sitting your characters, they will get blown away.
Considering how many awesome relics we have now, I'd put in somewhere in the "fun, but no great" category.

I also have played a few games with it. The issues with it are only a few characters are actually able to take pistols. However, it really makes a difference what list you build. My list for example only had a few weapons already that were not already plague weapons. If you built a list with only a few plague weapons you could maybe make a case for it. I agree it is more fun and not great.

Any character but the chaos lord will be hitting on 3+ with one shot though, so you can't really build around it since it has a high chance to no go off.

I don't get why everyone went crazy over it when it was revealed. The short range and limited accessibility instantly turned me off in favour of others, e.g ironclot furnace, daemon's toll, allwyther, suppurating plate, plaguebringer... they're my go to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does sound cool but I run so many plague weapons anyway that it really isn't my thing.

I tried it, and honestly, it sucks. 14" range on a infantry character prevents it from getting near anything valuable until the game is decided or you are out of CP to combo off it. In 9th edition you also face the challenge of changed character targeting rules, so unless there is a daemon engine baby-sitting your characters, they will get blown away.
Considering how many awesome relics we have now, I'd put in somewhere in the "fun, but no great" category.

This pretty much. Since I also run a large footslogging horde, I've pretty much settled on the Demon's Toll. That 5+ invuln doesn't seem like much, but when you combine it with the Plague Surgeon from Mortarion's Chosen Sons, the PMs just become so hard to kill. 5++ up front, and then rerolling 1's AND 2's on DRs is surprisingly strong.

My primary opponents are mostly Primaris players. Ultramarines Aggressors pretty much put the kibosh on my foot slogging for a bit, but these abilities have mad them viable again. Combined with some of the new shooty strats, a blob of PMs is potentially a real threat now, and tough as hell to remove.