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Had my last outing with 8th at a tourney yesterday. Decided to take Morty, a battalion detachment of his Chosen Sons, and a patrol of Alpha Legion. Lost the first against Tzeentch demons, won the second against Black Templars, and lost the third against Necrons.

It was my first games of any form of Warhammer since before the nationwide lockdown and I was very rusty. Not detracting from my opponent's skill mind. I'll be glad to see the back of 8th though, to be honest. Too point and click for my tastes. Roll on 9th!

better play rhinos without upgrades they need to last 1 turn after all

 blackmage wrote:
better play rhinos without upgrades they need to last 1 turn after all

I would normally agree with you, but having paid a CP to boost it's durability, I'm inclined to gamble that it does indeed complete it's job and then i have a T7 vehicle driving around with a melta gun that my opponent will be forced to deal with even if it's empty

I next to always stick another combi-bolter on rhinos. 4 of them its what 12extra pts now.

Assumption is 16shots at 12" a turn is gonna at least kill 12pts worth of stuff in the course of the game.

I just can’t see the value in PMs any longer. They are utterly blown off the table against almost against any army. Maybe if they had 2 wounds, but they lack speed, offense, and defensive capabilities. I’d much rather have a 125 pt drone with fleshmower on an objective or flying 10” to take one. Everything else seems faster, more killh, and can take much more damage This list honestly hits very hard with all the PBC buffs and it infuriates my opponent trying to get past a 10W, T7, 4++, and 5+++ save. I have won all 5 of my 9th edition games handedly using it.

Sadly, I think across the board with maybe the exception being intercessors all troops are over priced in 9th.

For most of 8th ed I would have 100% agreed with your statement there on PMs. But ever since War of the Spider, I really think they're worth it. Putting them in Rhinos fixes the speed problem, and now have many ways to make them both more survivable and hit harder.

As the 9th ed rules were getting leaked, there were a number of people saying "troops won't see the table in 9th" and I was definitely in agreement, but having played a bunch of games, they actually seem MORE important. Unless I missed something (and I may have so if I did let me know), Demon Engines can't do things like "Raise the Banner", "Siphon Power" etc etc. As mentioned, they also lack Obsec.

I still think Fleshmowers are key, but bringing small squads of cultists and walkers is probably going to set you up for some frustrating games as you play more of 9th. But them, it technically hasn't even started yet so who knows? lol

PMs in rhinos supported by daemon engines using the 4+ invul strat... that seems like it would just be a pain to handle. Worth a try!

The more I play, the more I'm leaning towards this honestly. Throwing Fleshmowers in someone's face on turn 1 while PMs in Rhinos claim objectives just feels ... right. lol

Why shouldn't daemon engines be able to perform actions? Objective secured only matter for deciding who controls an objective.

Why shouldn't daemon engines be able to perform actions? Objective secured only matter for deciding who controls an objective.

Because some of the better ones require you to be an infantry unit specifically. We haven't played with all of them yet, so I'm sure there's ones that don't, but the ones that seem good at the outset require infantry. Raise the Flag in particular mentions it, and it's really powerful if you already have obsec units sitting on objectives.

Small units of Poxwalkers or cultists are best for this.

Small units of Poxwalkers or cultists are best for this.

This edition is extremely unkind to light infantry. You mentioned not wanting to use PMs because they were slow and easy to kill. Walkers and Cultists are much slower and easier to kill than the PMs are. In some ways Poxwalkers are ideal because you can can them on an objective and perform an action and there's no opportunity cost. They weren't going to shoot or cast a power anyway, but if it's walkers by themsevles? They aren't going to last very long. You would need so many squads of them I think ....

But who knows. I've played about 13 games at this point and seen a ton of reports and that's about it. We could both easily end up wrong once the edition really gets going.

I think Cloud of Flies is going to be the key to making our infantry work for us. Units like Poxwalkers even at 10 man size can be great “action” units to score points if you can get them there, Cloud and do the action. If some some reason they do end up getting shot by a unit , they need to be shot to a man to stop them due to being fearless. So I think there could be play there, again because they literally will be doing nothing else like shooting or casting.


Another note: is a land raider with C Monstrosity still as bad as it looks for points? Compared to a PBC they just seem so underpowered, untough and over costed. Is there some way they can get an invulnerable save?

I think Cloud of Flies is going to be the key to making our infantry work for us. Units like Poxwalkers even at 10 man size can be great “action” units to score points if you can get them there, Cloud and do the action. If some some reason they do end up getting shot by a unit , they need to be shot to a man to stop them due to being fearless. So I think there could be play there, again because they literally will be doing nothing else like shooting or casting.

Yeah., Cloud of Flies is going to be huge again this edition. Even more so than 8th. Part of the problem though is that it's actually fairly easy to get close enough to work around it in a lot of cases, and since you can only use it once per turn, you will have other objectives able to be shot at. Even a 10 man squad isn't too hard to kill for a lot of things, and broxus is talking about using units potentially even smaller than that.

In an edition where we're likely to see, in a regular basis, Impulsors run up the table to dump assault Intercessors that hit hard as hell and count as troops, unsupported Poxwalkers are going to get mulched most of the time I think.

RE: the Landraider -

I wish I could make those work. lol The Crusader on the Imperial side has some potential play in the right list but ours ... ours is pretty bad IMO. Personally, I find it difficult to get my Death Shroud into combat via DS because of how slow they are - you pretty much need a lucky roll or to have a allied sorcerer there for Warptime (or to have your opponent make a dumb mistake), so I've tried running them in a Land Raider, but man, it's just so many points ...

Seems like it still makes sense to deep strike the Deathshroud, they might not make the charge (much lower in 9th with the CP reroll change) but they can land anywhere within reason, deny an area somewhere, be in the back field, take the enemies home objective, etc. It seems like we should transport stuff without another reasonable transport ability and wouldn’t mind being close, like Plague Marines, biologous putrifiers and Foul Blightspawn.

It seems though 3-4 Rhinos cost the same amount of points and are many more wounds and can all drive in different directions.

If you were taking moration's chosen sons for the better nartheticum anyway, you can also use their other stratagem combined with the +ranged stratagem to flame something right out of deep strike with D2 flamers.

That’s right. That seems to be the way to run them.

I’m in a spot wether it’s better to go just one large detachment to save command points or run 2 separate ones to use Chosen Ones for my troops and Poxmongers for my daemon engines. I haven’t worked out the points super accurate yet but it seems I run out of points in a hurry.

For a Blighthauler and PBC spam list (alongside a bell GUO) is Epidemus worth it? It seems like giving all my engines rerolls of 1 to hit and +1 toughness is TASTY.

He might be, but who is carrying your ironclot furnace? It seems like it's probably a prince anyway, so the reroll 1s isn't a big deal. Still, I guess you might spread out later.

drakerocket wrote:
He might be, but who is carrying your ironclot furnace? It seems like it's probably a prince anyway, so the reroll 1s isn't a big deal. Still, I guess you might spread out later.

Yeah a DP. Also, all the other bonuses are quite nice too(strength 8 flamers on the PBCs heck yeah) so its not JUST for those 2 buffs alone.

 Brymm wrote:
I think Cloud of Flies is going to be the key to making our infantry work for us. Units like Poxwalkers even at 10 man size can be great “action” units to score points if you can get them there, Cloud and do the action. If some some reason they do end up getting shot by a unit , they need to be shot to a man to stop them due to being fearless. So I think there could be play there, again because they literally will be doing nothing else like shooting or casting.


Another note: is a land raider with C Monstrosity still as bad as it looks for points? Compared to a PBC they just seem so underpowered, untough and over costed. Is there some way they can get an invulnerable save?

The bellboy relic will give you a 5++ not sure it helps much tbh unless you're getting hit by a lot of melta?

I thought that was only infantry!? I need a reread!

 Brymm wrote:
I thought that was only infantry!? I need a reread!

Nah just says deathguard units. Although there isn't actually a huge amount of relevant deathguard units that don't have a 5++ already. Plague Marines, Rhinos & Helbrutes I think.

Abaddon303 wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
I thought that was only infantry!? I need a reread!

Nah just says deathguard units. Although there isn't actually a huge amount of relevant deathguard units that don't have a 5++ already. Plague Marines, Rhinos & Helbrutes I think.

Also predators, landraiders and chaos spawn. Poxwalkers and culstists are excluded though.

Well would be useful if the Castellen/Tyrant makes a comeback. Having a save on any form of vehicle, be it a rhino or land raider, versus a Valcano Lance or that Harpoon, can swing the game your way.

If you were taking moration's chosen sons for the better nartheticum anyway, you can also use their other stratagem combined with the +ranged stratagem to flame something right out of deep strike with D2 flamers.

lol1

I have been using Mortarion's Chosen Sons almost exclusively and completely overlooked/forgot about that strat for the flamers! Good call!

RE: The Demon's Toll -

Yeah, it can be used on a bunch of stuff. I have been sticking the Bell Boy in the Rhino with the Suped-Up Plague Surgeon. It covers him and the PMs so it makes the unit pretty hard to kill, but there are a lot of other potential uses for it.

What do people think is a good amount to spend on CP before a game? Most lists I'm building I normally stop at about 7, leaving about 5 to start the game with.

I really hope that some of our strategems (e.g. Contaminated Monstrosity) get rolled into datasheets when our 9th codex gets released. Kinda resent spending CP on things which I feel we should naturally have.

 lare2 wrote:
What do people think is a good amount to spend on CP before a game? Most lists I'm building I normally stop at about 7, leaving about 5 to start the game with.

I really hope that some of our strategems (e.g. Contaminated Monstrosity) get rolled into datasheets when our 9th codex gets released. Kinda resent spending CP on things which I feel we should naturally have.

most depend what kind of list you play, some need cp's to work, some other less, a full veichle list dont need much cp's for example, an infantry one usually lot more. For example i tested 2 lists, one full mechanized and i spend more or less 6-7 cp pregame, ad one with 40 plague marines and i spend 3-4.

Really hoping the new Codex gives more things DR, and would love to see DG get Daemonforge, could really help our Daemon Engines. The Defiler is so close to being good. With Daemonforge, could be really scary!

I think having DR across the board at that point would become our legion trait. I, for one, don’t want that. I want DR on the stuff that has it and don’t mind having to pay CP for it. I want a better version of a legion trait that will affect all units in our army like the newer Space Marines ones do.
Or if DR becomes the legion trait, then the Plague Companies should have individual army wide bonuses, but since that was in PA about 2 months ago, I won’t hold my breath.

 vaklor4 wrote:
For a Blighthauler and PBC spam list (alongside a bell GUO) is Epidemus worth it? It seems like giving all my engines rerolls of 1 to hit and +1 toughness is TASTY.

Don Hooson seems to think so. He put forth a list of DG conserving just enough points to summon old Epi turn 1. I liked the list a fair bit.

Is that supposed to be Inexonerable? Doesn’t that seem like the wrong plague company? What am I missing?

it is not...hardly you keep 8 veichles inside the 7" bubble for 4++ save, and is not really necessary.