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I'm considering getting the DG digital book, as a companion/alternative detachment to the CSM book.

In the new book, is a Palanquin of Nurgle [or something like it] a relic or standard equipment option for Chaos Lords? I have a Lord on Palanquin left over from 7th, and I'm reluctant to get a new Lord just for the Death Guard.

broxus wrote:
Anyone coming up with any good lists? Here is what I gave come up with so far. The points may not be perfect.

Mortarian- 470pts
Daemon Prince w/ hellforge sword, talon, 2+ armor save relic, 4+ DR warlord trait-152pts
Nurgle Chaos Lord w/ helm giving a 9" reroll 1s range- 80pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
5x Plague Marines w/ 3 plasma guns-134pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Hauler w/ multimelta and missile launcher- 137pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts
Plague Crawler w/ 2x entropy guns- 162pts

Total= 1836 pts. Not sure what else to add. It seems so small!

two rhinos and the dude that buffs your grenades. If I understand him correctly, if you use him in conjunction with the grenade strategem, all your DG in a unit get to throw 2d6 str4 ap-1 plague nades.

Saw a battle report yesterday of DG vs Salamanders. The guy used a very similar army except he had two bloat drones, more characters and none of the plague hauler and crawlers. The thing is, Mortarion died by turn 4 I think. He went and charged in Mortarion unsupported into like one third to half of the Salamander's army. His two bloat drones were on his two flanks.

Mortarion is good, but he does go down to shooting if you fire enough shots his way. You can't rely on him to solo the whole opponent's army. That Salamanders army wasn't even the shootiest SM army I have seen. So I feel that a DG list needs to be able to take out heavy support, plus it needs to have other targets of priority that the opponent will have to take into account other than just Mortarion. Especially for the heavy support guns. BTW, the DG army was very resilient. The bloat drones were so hard to kill. The problem was his biggest damage output was Mortarion, who could delete at least one unit a turn, so naturally the opponent started to focus on him after a while. Mortarion was quite obviously the biggest threat.

mario88826 wrote:


OK this ridiculous conversation ends NOW.

Couldn't agree more. Let's put this to rest in a civilized manner.

mario88826 wrote:


I said dealing this amount in practice is nigh impossible.

Take out the word "nigh" and we are in agreement.

mario88826 wrote:


If you want to prove I'm wrong - then do so. Don't use demagogy and other tricks. They don't work on me. Only facts and pure calculations. As it happens i have math degree.

I gave the shorthand version of the calculations I did because people find them boring and usually want to get to the TLDR version, so I just recap the results. If you'd like to see the actual math, I'd be more than happy to PM it to you so as not to clutter up the thread. My apologies if the math I did was unclear.

In short, I have no issue with you saying that such an output is theoretically possible. But this is a tactics thread. Is it theoretically possible to roll nothing but sixes for an entire game of 40k? Sure is. But saying "guys Mortarion has the capability to roll all 6's for his armor saves and DR rolls and never die" is not very tactically useful. Your proposed potential turn of even 100 wounds dealt by Mortarion would happen about as often as winning the lottery 3 times in one day. Interesting from a theoretical standpoint perhaps, but has no place in a tactics thread. So yes. Please. Let's get back to actual tactics.

Im considering a battlion of daemons.

Battlion: 752

Daemon prince with wings
herald

nurglings
plague bearers
plague bearers

Beast of nurgle

plague drones
plague drones

morty 470

plague crawler 162
plague crawler 162

Bloat drone (lawnmower)158?

cultists
cultists
cultists


too weak?

1 squad of cults bubbles the crawlers.

2 cults obj control.

Morty - bloatdrone - daemon prince and plague drones rumble as a squad.

daemons advance!

COLD CASH wrote:
Im considering a battlion of daemons.

Battlion: 752

Daemon prince with wings
herald

nurglings
plague bearers
plague bearers

Beast of nurgle

plague drones
plague drones

morty 470

plague crawler 162
plague crawler 162

Bloat drone (lawnmower)158?

cultists
cultists
cultists


too weak?

1 squad of cults bubbles the crawlers.

2 cults obj control.

Morty - bloatdrone - daemon prince and plague drones rumble as a squad.

daemons advance!

You can't fiel army like that sorry. Battalion of daemons is okay, 2nd detachment is super heavy aka morty - that is also fine.
But then I don't get how you want to field 3x cultists without HQ. Morty cannot be HQ he is lord of war.
To make it valid you need HQ for cultists.

Ive only got what ive read here, and the MWG vids to go off, and im still kinda new to DG in general so bare that in mind.
I guess we all agree that Morty is a god in CC but is vulnerable making his way up the field to shooting attacks, which lets face it is likely how people will set up against him. How about this an alternative tactic, it is a "left field" but hey ho this is a tactics discussion

Hold Morty back in deployment zone for a few rounds, behind cover so he cant be nuked from range. Have a couple of the mortar tanks back there with him, also behind terrain as they don't need LoS. Use whatever other units you build your army around to advance up the board providing distraction. If Morty isn't doing anything your opponent will be forced to focus on the other stuff nuking him/her from range or advancing up the board (PMs, Poxwalkers, Typhus, Bloat drones etc). If possible even get units like poxwalkers or PMs, or deepstriking termies to tie up heavy support/shooty units. combination of that, the mortars, smite etc should either thin out the enemy a little or at the very least distract and tie them up, leaving morty by turn 2/3 to come and move/advance up the board ready to join in the action without as much attention. Marching him up the board turn 1 you may as well just paint a big crosshair on his chest, and being 18 wounds you cant really protect him from it, the darkshrouds are an option but its a hell of an expensive extra 6 wounds for Morty.

Other option would be the reverse, and actually use Morty as the distraction by marching him up the board first, they focus everything on him to kill him, meanwhile your other units move into range to deliver damage. Again though, an expensive distraction and possibly giving up Slay the Warlord a little easy.

garetheves wrote:
Ive only got what ive read here, and the MWG vids to go off, and im still kinda new to DG in general so bare that in mind.
I guess we all agree that Morty is a god in CC but is vulnerable making his way up the field to shooting attacks, which lets face it is likely how people will set up against him. How about this an alternative tactic, it is a "left field" but hey ho this is a tactics discussion

Hold Morty back in deployment zone for a few rounds, behind cover so he cant be nuked from range. Have a couple of the mortar tanks back there with him, also behind terrain as they don't need LoS. Use whatever other units you build your army around to advance up the board providing distraction. If Morty isn't doing anything your opponent will be forced to focus on the other stuff nuking him/her from range or advancing up the board (PMs, Poxwalkers, Typhus, Bloat drones etc). If possible even get units like poxwalkers or PMs, or deepstriking termies to tie up heavy support/shooty units. combination of that, the mortars, smite etc should either thin out the enemy a little or at the very least distract and tie them up, leaving morty by turn 2/3 to come and move/advance up the board ready to join in the action without as much attention. Marching him up the board turn 1 you may as well just paint a big crosshair on his chest, and being 18 wounds you cant really protect him from it, the darkshrouds are an option but its a hell of an expensive extra 6 wounds for Morty.

Other option would be the reverse, and actually use Morty as the distraction by marching him up the board first, they focus everything on him to kill him, meanwhile your other units move into range to deliver damage. Again though, an expensive distraction and possibly giving up Slay the Warlord a little easy.

Its not gonna be easy to hide Mortarion behind cover. Have you seen how big his model is? Its huge. People face the same issues with Magnus, who has a similarly huge model.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

garetheves wrote:
Ive only got what ive read here, and the MWG vids to go off, and im still kinda new to DG in general so bare that in mind.
I guess we all agree that Morty is a god in CC but is vulnerable making his way up the field to shooting attacks, which lets face it is likely how people will set up against him. How about this an alternative tactic, it is a "left field" but hey ho this is a tactics discussion

Hold Morty back in deployment zone for a few rounds, behind cover so he cant be nuked from range. Have a couple of the mortar tanks back there with him, also behind terrain as they don't need LoS. Use whatever other units you build your army around to advance up the board providing distraction. If Morty isn't doing anything your opponent will be forced to focus on the other stuff nuking him/her from range or advancing up the board (PMs, Poxwalkers, Typhus, Bloat drones etc). If possible even get units like poxwalkers or PMs, or deepstriking termies to tie up heavy support/shooty units. combination of that, the mortars, smite etc should either thin out the enemy a little or at the very least distract and tie them up, leaving morty by turn 2/3 to come and move/advance up the board ready to join in the action without as much attention. Marching him up the board turn 1 you may as well just paint a big crosshair on his chest, and being 18 wounds you cant really protect him from it, the darkshrouds are an option but its a hell of an expensive extra 6 wounds for Morty.

Other option would be the reverse, and actually use Morty as the distraction by marching him up the board first, they focus everything on him to kill him, meanwhile your other units move into range to deliver damage. Again though, an expensive distraction and possibly giving up Slay the Warlord a little easy.

Its not gonna be easy to hide Mortarion behind cover. Have you seen how big his model is? Its huge. People face the same issues with Magnus, who has a similarly huge model.

True but most table setups have decent sized terrain middle of the table and a few tall LoS objects, might not be able to give him 100% cover but maybe enough to avoid a number of shots. And if the opponent is faced with multiple units running up the board they aren't gonna waste shots on Morty that far away, they will want to thin the poxwalkers before they get swarmed, or the 3 plasma guns per PM squad nuking them, not to mention a surprise strike on terminators behind them. Then out pops morty just before the poxwalkers and blight drones charge and they have a decision to make; try and take out mortys 18wounds and risk being swamped by pox walkers, typhus etc, or concentrate on the close stuff, leaving Morty to prace up the board, skipping and whistling

Depends on the terrain you play with. At the store me and my friend play at, its mostly ruins (which have windows and holes in them). So, it is almost impossible to have such a big model be completed out of sight. And all he needs to see is a small portion of the model, and he can shoot at it. Given the size of the model, its unlikely you can be in cover either. So, as long as he sees even a piece of your wing, or shoulder, then he can shoot you and you don't count as being in cover (because it is unlikely your entire model base is in cover).

Mortarion is no doubt powerful. But that 470 points cost. Gottay say this is even quiet major increase over Magnus for whopping 55 points - which is well equipped blightlord terminator for example.

Of course Morty is valid pick, but with all new units and stuff I would say it's more than possible to make strong army where he is not present.

Given that if I want to play game at 1000 points or less - I won't field him as it would be pretty damn boring if he eats half of points. Even if can pay for himself.

Especially that he got great synergy with fast attack units that follow him and deep striking termies - but not as much with more shooty DG armies - that as of now are not horrible idea.

I can see potent army based around PBC's , Haulers and shooty blight launcher/plasma Plague Marines.

In fact I think they are pretty damn capable at shooting.
Fun fact is that they can rapid fire before intercessors and hellblasters respectively - worse weapons but that is something.

PBC even if at BS4 is a great deal.
I can see them overpowering in shooting ASS-cannons/lascannon razorbacks even with Guilliman.

At same time your front line is held by plague marines covered by Haulers sitting at Armor of 2+ against shooting.

Make wrap with anything be it cultists / poxwalkers.

mario88826 wrote:

COLD CASH wrote:
Im considering a battlion of daemons.

Battlion: 752

Daemon prince with wings
herald

nurglings
plague bearers
plague bearers

Beast of nurgle

plague drones
plague drones

morty 470

plague crawler 162
plague crawler 162

Bloat drone (lawnmower)158?

cultists
cultists
cultists


too weak?

1 squad of cults bubbles the crawlers.

2 cults obj control.

Morty - bloatdrone - daemon prince and plague drones rumble as a squad.

daemons advance!

You can't fiel army like that sorry. Battalion of daemons is okay, 2nd detachment is super heavy aka morty - that is also fine.
But then I don't get how you want to field 3x cultists without HQ. Morty cannot be HQ he is lord of war.
To make it valid you need HQ for cultists.

oops keep forgetting lord of war is not a hq!!(back from 20 years out) hmmm ill have to rejiggle, but plenty of time for that since it'll take a week at least after release for my morty to arrive.

Combo idea.
Infiltrate alpha legion cultists forward, such that the read rank is within 7" of your poxwalkers.
Trigger the cloud of flies and dead walk stratagems on your poxwalkers . Every dead cultists triggers a new poxwalkers which can be placed at the front of the unit, allowing for a speedy advance.

Heh that's clever, I like it.

Idk why people are so into poxwalkers.

They have close to no synergy with DG compared to Plague Marines.

No benefit from Legion Trait, no plague weapons - and so no benefit from archcontaminator and putrescent blades.
They don't really benefit from new Haulers cover save as 6+ most of the time there will be at least AP-1. When Plague Marines do love it.

No synergy with Grenade elite guys.

I dare to even say they lack synergy with Typhus himself.
They force this Movement 4 guy with advancement halved to give up his teleport strike that would let him pull off charge turn 1 and use his powerful manreaper/auras/warlord trait and destroyer hive.
Not only that but even with noxious dude - won't make to combat before Turn 3 or later for sure ...
He will be also very exposed to all kind of assassins.
And once he is dead. Well you can take poxwalkers off table aswell, won't make such difference.

And above everything they won't catch up with centerpice of our army - Mortarion.

I may take 10 to hold objective and thats it.

And even if I will have them for above reason and Typhus - he will ignore them completely and act on his own - aka travel with Deathshroud in LR or deepstrike with other termies.

Guys; what do you think of this strategy with 3 Blight Haulers.

Take a Heretic Astartes Patrol Detachment with a Cheap Chaos sorcerer marked nurgle , and one cheap unit of alpha legion cultists.
Take Prescience and warptime. First turn cast Prescience and Warptime to Haulers and warptime them.
The haulers will go forward 19" and fire their weapon on 2+, Thats 3 shot of multi melta on 2 and 3 shots of Missile Launcher on 2+. ( you have even the bile spust thing)

THen your chaos sorcerer is not wasted because he can warp time poxwalkers, prescience artillery etc..

Is this good ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarklyDreaming wrote:
How would you equip the BlightLord Terminators (in order to kill some MEQ and TEQ)? I would go with axes and blight launchers (better than plasma? I can't risk to lose a 57 pts model...) except for the sergent with the flail... 3d3 attacks my god.

You cant take more than one blight launcher per squad

Kangaxx wrote:
Guys; what do you think of this strategy with 3 Blight Haulers.

Take a Heretic Astartes Patrol Detachment with a Cheap Chaos sorcerer marked nurgle , and one cheap unit of alpha legion cultists.
Take Prescience and warptime. First turn cast Prescience and Warptime to Haulers and warptime them.
The haulers will go forward 19" and fire their weapon on 2+, Thats 3 shot of multi melta on 2 and 3 shots of Missile Launcher on 2+. ( you have even the bile spust thing)

THen your chaos sorcerer is not wasted because he can warp time poxwalkers, prescience artillery etc..

Is this good ?

It's fine. Make the Cultists 40 men strong, and make the Sorcerer and Cultists Slaanesh. That way after you've boosted the Haulers they can give the cultists a 5+ FNP and regrow them with the Stratagem.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Combo idea.
Infiltrate alpha legion cultists forward, such that the read rank is within 7" of your poxwalkers.
Trigger the cloud of flies and dead walk stratagems on your poxwalkers . Every dead cultists triggers a new poxwalkers which can be placed at the front of the unit, allowing for a speedy advance.

I believe that stratagem only applies to infantry models within 7 inches, not the entire unit.

Yeah, so you remove your casualties within 7, and place your new poxwalkers closer, so you always have casualties within 7

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Combo idea.
Infiltrate alpha legion cultists forward, such that the read rank is within 7" of your poxwalkers.
Trigger the cloud of flies and dead walk stratagems on your poxwalkers . Every dead cultists triggers a new poxwalkers which can be placed at the front of the unit, allowing for a speedy advance.

^^This! Combining cultist with poxwalkers saves points and makes it so your opponent doesnt want to shoot the cultist, but cant shoot the poxwalkers. Combined with typhus and Necrosius for a mean little horde.

Do this with an allied unit of 40 cultists and then in your turn use tide of traitors of any are left. That gets you a nicely boosted unit of poxwalkers and a massive unit of cultists in the opponents rear field


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even better take alpha legion cultists and put them 9"s away from the enemy front line and stretch them out so they are almost back to your lines. If you go second the cultists will bite the majority of your opponents first turn of shooting. If you go first run your poxwalkers forward as fast as you can then spring the dead walk again trick and charge every cultist that gets killed by overwatch is a free poxwalker. As long as 1 cultist survives the turn you can just use tide of traitors and pop them all back somewhere else then charge woth the now massive mob of walkers

Ok new info :

All Bloat Drones are super good. Though Fleshmover still MVP i suppose.

Finally data for last weapon :
Heavy Blight Launcher :
Assault 6 S6 AP -2 D3 damage , Plague Weapon,
And insane 36" Range
Sadly BS 4+ on Demonic Engine , but we are talking about 3 blight launchers with 50% more range . This can stand near arch contaminator to reroll all wound rolls and reroll 1's to hit when moving along Morty for example - so not necessarily inaccurate.
Imo can hit elite infantry like terminators in 36" radius and got solid dakka.

This solidfy my oppinion that you can get really powerful shooting on this army.

This bloat drone can move 10" or even advance (but then -1 to hit) and still shoot 36" - potentially some crazy range.

Honestly with this blight launcher and fact its assault and because bloat drone can disengage and shoot lol - it's better than hauler.
But then again hauler got buffs for numbers and aura for infantry.

PBC extra weapons stat :
You can have either heavy slugger or Rothail volley gun.
Both decent.

Heavy Slugger : 36" Heavy 4 S5 AP-1 D1 - not a Plague weapon
Rothail Volley Gun : 24" Heavy 3 S6 AP-2 D1 - also not plague.
Heavy Slugger looks like winner, not because of extra shoot but 36"

And I now think PBC isn't op because : BS4+ and IT IS DEGRADING.
On top of that no rule to move and shoot heavy weapon without penalty.

So PBC kinda would welcome lord/prince babysitting it for at least rerolling 1's.
Kinda sucks that we lost access to Daemon Forged stratagem .
Still this is great tank with resillience of damn Land Raider for low cost. Just stand still and own within 36".
Edit : Sadly I think any opponent who has any deep strike will aim for those as they are vulnerable in CC and can't even overwatch with mortar. Now this normally wouldn't sound like a problem in first place, but rest of your dudes probably will advance leaving it/them alone.
Plague Spitters sound like horrible idea for 2 reasons - you can't overwatch on deep strike charge - they are 9" not 10". And if you want to use them for advancing and shooting - you lose ability to shoot your heavy weapons. If you just move they hit at 5's. so it's like 90% of time entropy cannon.
But that being said - S7 flamers AP -1 D1 Rerolling 1's to wound and 9" range beats bloat drone with strenght.

I think my tactic for this army starts to flesh out slowly with all this info.

The 4+ to hit for the daemon engines may be an issue for deathguard gunline. It becomes a 5+ if facing Alpha legion, Ravenguard or Storm Ravens. Anyway, let's say we have 10 of those mortar tanks with two characters and a bubblewrap. Is that a deadly enough gunline?

Anyone spotted any good anti horde and light infantry so far? It seems we have anti tank in abundance, plus lots of 2 damage good AP weapons for teq, but the only dedicated anti horde I see is melee or the various flamer weapons, most of which aren't super practical given low range and lack of mobility.

Bloat drones with their twin flamer guns are pretty good anti infantry. They can fly, are resilient and move 10 inches per move.

True, but they were a bit expensive for it originally, and I haven't heard of them getting a price cut. I guess it's them or morty right now.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Bloat drones with their twin flamer guns are pretty good anti infantry. They can fly, are resilient and move 10 inches per move.

yeah, but then you forgo the giant lawn mower.

And, come on, giant lawnmower.

The answer is ... take more bloat drones! lol

As cool as the lawn mower is, I am not sure it is worth taking over plaguespitters.

Unless like the model infers it replaces the plague spitters and the death probe AND is only like 30-35 points.

Because then it would be a solid way to get a bloat drone on the cheap

SilverAlien wrote:
Anyone spotted any good anti horde and light infantry so far? It seems we have anti tank in abundance, plus lots of 2 damage good AP weapons for teq, but the only dedicated anti horde I see is melee or the various flamer weapons, most of which aren't super practical given low range and lack of mobility.

You are joking right ?
First of all bs - our flamers are one of most mobile ones and have best range hands down. 9" instead of 8" and most of them you will have on platform that can move 10" +d6 from advance and still shoot since it's Assault weapon.

Ok let's start :

1. Best anti horde unit to ever see table : Mortarion
2. Plague Marines with Flails of corruption (each flail for 1 attack can kill up to 6 dudes) and blight grenade stratagem.
3. All 3 types of Bloat drones
4. Blightlord terminators also can use flails even better, same story with blight grenades and stratagem.
5. Deathshroud - may sound like only 10 attacks but 3 dudes also have 3d6 auto hits both at 6" and in CC as it's pistol.
6. Plague wind spell - they bigger the blob - the better
7. Poxwalkers - well same story as above. They love other hordes.
8. New Relic - as even GW mentioned it's easy to kill yourself when striking such Demon Prince equipped with one. Pretty easy if there is tons of hits coming.

If you get luck with advance rolls on poxwalkers and hit into such blob of conscripts oh dear God - it may be the only case when IG player regrets taking tons conscripts.

All this happens when poor IG artillery struggles to put even scratch on crazy tanky stuff like Drones/Burst Crawlers/Myphitics/Terminators.

In fact I don't like poxwalkers but with meta being so horde heavy - they may have place after all ...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Commissar wrote:
As cool as the lawn mower is, I am not sure it is worth taking over plaguespitters.

Unless like the model infers it replaces the plague spitters and the death probe AND is only like 30-35 points.

Because then it would be a solid way to get a bloat drone on the cheap

Sadly we got some stupid gak there, i saw on review of codex entry, where it's noted that Drone is equipped with 2 spitters and probe.
You can replace 2 spitters for either fleshmover or heavy blight launcher. Indicating that even though it's stupid - we gotta pay for probe in any configuration.

And probe may aswell win contest for most cost ineffective weapon per point invested weapon in Entire 40K universe.

But then again we don't know if they didn't adjust cost of probe - I never saw point cost table in DG codex.
Same goes for Plaguereaper - if it stays at 45pts - then we all know that everyone take Manreaper for 17points - especially that it even has better strenght aswell.

Btw as we speak I bought 2 more DI Drones for 9€ each hehehehe. Now I sit on 3 but i don't assembly them.
I hope I will be able to actually costumize them using boxed drone bits - to actually remake one as fleshmover and one as heavy blight launcher. Still will be stuck with 2 plaguespitter - but they are great aswell - so nothing to complain about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
The answer is ... take more bloat drones! lol

Seems like Bloat drone is excellent answer to anything.

Honestly thanks to it's speed, weapon choices it can do anything.

From CC specialist to close range flamer specialists ending as long range mobile artillery. And thanks to type of all those weapons - we can easily say that they can wound anything from simple infantry to land raiders - especially with archcontaminator around.