Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I prefer just combi bolters for my blightlords. They are cheap and monsters in combat. The plasma is not good since you will likely lose 1-2 models a game overheating it. Meltas are solid, but make the unit very expensive. At that point it is better just to use 2xPBCs.

I'm considering going an infantry only DG army and was wandering what the best anti-tank option that'd allow?

Mortarion?

Mortarion and Combi-Melta Blightlords?

Seconding the Combi-Melta Blightlords. If you're okay with mixing it up, getting a Jump Pack Sorcerer w/ Warptime from a CSM detachment will allow them to get in closer to any tanks after DSing, then use their meltas to greater effectiveness.

 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Seconding the Combi-Melta Blightlords. If you're okay with mixing it up, getting a Jump Pack Sorcerer w/ Warptime from a CSM detachment will allow them to get in closer to any tanks after DSing, then use their meltas to greater effectiveness.

I had always read about how awesome warp time was at turn 1 charges. I guess mentally I just associated it with a free 12" move. Had a recent game where the only target to cast warp time was some Deathshroud. Getting an additional 4" move was very underwhelming... Though if they had just deep struck, that's cutting charge range down to 5, very good use.

If the new rumored cost of plague marines is really 17pts a model and blight launchers also received a points reduction to 10pts I think the unit will be a solid option. I was running my 5x man squads with 3x plasma guns at 134pts. With the rumors I can run my 5x man squads with 2x blight launchers and 1x plasma gun for example only 118pts.

That would be a welcomed change.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions

I agree broxus, the points changes they listed would be glorious if they turn out true. A much needed change imo

 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Seconding the Combi-Melta Blightlords. If you're okay with mixing it up, getting a Jump Pack Sorcerer w/ Warptime from a CSM detachment will allow them to get in closer to any tanks after DSing, then use their meltas to greater effectiveness.

You don't have to have a separate detachment to get Warptime. If you wish to have forward units utilize the power just use a Index Daemon Prince (CSM dataslate), rather than Daemon Prince of Nurgle. Sure, you lose DR, but you get your Hereticus Discipline and a warp bolter in compensation.

Vortenger wrote:

 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Seconding the Combi-Melta Blightlords. If you're okay with mixing it up, getting a Jump Pack Sorcerer w/ Warptime from a CSM detachment will allow them to get in closer to any tanks after DSing, then use their meltas to greater effectiveness.

You don't have to have a separate detachment to get Warptime. If you wish to have forward units utilize the power just use a Index Daemon Prince (CSM dataslate), rather than Daemon Prince of Nurgle. Sure, you lose DR, but you get your Hereticus Discipline and a warp bolter in compensation.

But that data sheet doesn’t have the death guard keyword.

broxus wrote:

Vortenger wrote:

 Dr. Temujin wrote:
Seconding the Combi-Melta Blightlords. If you're okay with mixing it up, getting a Jump Pack Sorcerer w/ Warptime from a CSM detachment will allow them to get in closer to any tanks after DSing, then use their meltas to greater effectiveness.

You don't have to have a separate detachment to get Warptime. If you wish to have forward units utilize the power just use a Index Daemon Prince (CSM dataslate), rather than Daemon Prince of Nurgle. Sure, you lose DR, but you get your Hereticus Discipline and a warp bolter in compensation.

But that data sheet doesn’t have the death guard keyword.

To elaborate, there are currently four dataslates that can be described as Daemon Princes:

Be'Lakor (Index: Chaos)
Daemon Prince of Chaos (Index: Chaos)
Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Codex: Death Guard)
Daemon Prince (Originally in Index: Chaos, but overwritten by Codex: Chaos Space Marines)

As the Daemon Prince dataslate has most recently been printed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, that is considered the current version of the dataslate, and the <LEGION> keyword on that dataslate cannot be set to Death Guard.

Even still, I like having a small Renegade contingent in my Death Guard, as that allows me to use other units which are not normally available to Death Guard.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
The rumors about chapter approved have some points decreases for DG in them.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/11/chapter-approved-2017-coming-in.html

12pt drop for deathshroud terminators. Might actually use all 6 I own now. Quite a few decent drops across the board. Though I am not sure how reliable rumors are these days.

Not any huge changes that I see, beyond plague marines finally being a reasonable choice. Most of the rest you would either already be taking or will still ignore, but the prices drops on the former can help fit in a little bit extra.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
I'm considering going an infantry only DG army and was wandering what the best anti-tank option that'd allow?

As in, only the infantry keyword, so no morty, no transports, no daemon engines, and no dreads? That's tough. Blightlords with melta or plasma will probably be your main option, and they aren't ideal. I think the blightspawn is the one with the random strength flamer weapon, he could help. Plague marines with blight launchers aren't bad for some additional support.

Honestly though, I wouldn't recommend going pure infantry with DG. We are probably the army least suited to pure infantry in the game currently, along with admech and GK as contenders.

broxus wrote:
But that data sheet doesn’t have the death guard keyword.

Ah, but according to the the index it does. The index allows Daemon Princes as per the index DG section. As others mentioned that entry has been updated in the CSM codex, but the index grants us explicit permission to use the dataslate with the relevant keywords. I'm aware the CSM codex has exemptions but we're using the index entry, not CSM.

So I was thinking... Plagueburst Crawlers w/ Daemonforge from CSM; good idea?

 Zid wrote:
So I was thinking... Plagueburst Crawlers w/ Daemonforge from CSM; good idea?

Good idea, but not legal. The Daemonforge stratagem specifies "Chaos Space Marines" units, which is different from <Heretic Astartes> in the sense that "Chaos Space Marines" cannot be Death Guard or Thousand Sons.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Zid wrote:
So I was thinking... Plagueburst Crawlers w/ Daemonforge from CSM; good idea?

Good idea, but not legal. The Daemonforge stratagem specifies "Chaos Space Marines" units, which is different from <Heretic Astartes> in the sense that "Chaos Space Marines" cannot be Death Guard or Thousand Sons.

Huh... so because it says Chaos Space Marine before the keyword, it will not work on Death Guard Daemon Engines? That stinks... I really wanted to run it :( Looking through codex DG, it highlights Death Guard for a keyword, while Chaos Space Marine is not a keyword... very confusing

Yeah, it's all very confusing. For the other example Tide of Traitors merely asks for Chaos Cultists, so as long as you have a "Chaos Space Marines" detachment to unlock it you can use it on your <Death Guard> cultists.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Yeah, it's all very confusing. For the other example Tide of Traitors merely asks for Chaos Cultists, so as long as you have a "Chaos Space Marines" detachment to unlock it you can use it on your <Death Guard> cultists.

Thanks for the clarification, that stinks man... I think PBC's with that Stratagem would be epicsauce

 Zid wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Yeah, it's all very confusing. For the other example Tide of Traitors merely asks for Chaos Cultists, so as long as you have a "Chaos Space Marines" detachment to unlock it you can use it on your <Death Guard> cultists.

Thanks for the clarification, that stinks man... I think PBC's with that Stratagem would be epicsauce

That's probably why they didn't give Death Guard the Daemonforge stratagem. Although I hardly think it would be OP or anything. It would work okay on a Foetid Bloat Drone with Heavy Blight Launcher, or a Myphitic Blight Hauler as well.

Although, I never see it used even in regular CSM because the units that could really benefit from it (Forgefiend, Defiler) are utter trash. I guess it works okay on a Maulerfiend or a Heldrake too, but I've yet to see one of those on the table in 8th.

Defiler are not utter trash. They are over coated a bit but if you use the reroll everything on a defiler it does a ton of damage.

Statistically speaking they will do more damage with their las Cannon, battle Cannon combo that a lascannon predator when using the strategem. They do 7 wounds per turn to a Vehicle compared to predators which average 5. They are also significantly harder to kill due to greater number of wounds, 5+ invulnerable, healing each turn. It takes 9 las Cannon hits to kill one on average compared to 5.7 to kill a predator. They can also punch pretty hard in melee with or without reroll everything. If you plan on spending the strategem point each round on one of these it’s a much better investment than a predator is.

That said, the fact that a buff is required means they are not a great unit. They are just ok. But given that they do provide both melee and firesupport they do bridge a weird gap. Try one sometime and you may be surprised

Don't they lose their fire support role when they start moving forwards for combat?

 sennacherib wrote:
Defiler are not utter trash. They are over coated a bit but if you use the reroll everything on a defiler it does a ton of damage.

Statistically speaking they will do more damage with their las Cannon, battle Cannon combo that a lascannon predator when using the strategem. They do 7 wounds per turn to a Vehicle compared to predators which average 5. They are also significantly harder to kill due to greater number of wounds, 5+ invulnerable, healing each turn. It takes 9 las Cannon hits to kill one on average compared to 5.7 to kill a predator. They can also punch pretty hard in melee with or without reroll everything. If you plan on spending the strategem point each round on one of these it’s a much better investment than a predator is.

That said, the fact that a buff is required means they are not a great unit. They are just ok. But given that they do provide both melee and firesupport they do bridge a weird gap. Try one sometime and you may be surprised

I agree. Now that their cost has been brought down, defilers are very decent. I had one defiler fight Celestine to a standstill and almost kill her. She backed away from that combat smartly, she couldn't do much damage to the defiler despite her weapon being strength 7.. Defilers are very deadly in close combat and decent in ranged combat. And their cost is quite ok too.

Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.

 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.

Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.

Are minimum five man death guard squads a viable unit? I know the troops are pretty tough but is anyone running multiple five-man units?

broxus wrote:

 sennacherib wrote:
Yes they do loose fire support ability when they advance. That’s why I usually post it up as a shooter next to a objective. It can pump out the damage each turn at range and if the enemy is foolish enough to deep strike something nearby to take the objective, well let’s just say that they don’t live long. Or at least that’s the plan.

Won’t a PBC do more damage, is harder to kill, and is cheaper? It is better to be good at either shooting or close combat, not both. I hate paying for rules I don't get to use. If they get another points drop per the rumors they may be worth looking at.

PBC only do more damage when paired with a lord with arch contaminator. They are also way less punchy in melee. Likely why defilers cost more. Real problem with defilers is that they are jack of all trades master of none.

does anyone have any experience against the new tyranids? I saw a list of a friend this week which semi reliably set up 5 first turn charges of 9" or less when the enemy deploys at 24.1". I'm not sure how to deal with a broodlord, 2x20 genestealers and a flying hive tyrant in melee in turn 1. (and a lictor with pheromone trail, but that one isn't that much of an issue on his own)

Milkshaker wrote:
does anyone have any experience against the new tyranids? I saw a list of a friend this week which semi reliably set up 5 first turn charges of 9" or less when the enemy deploys at 24.1". I'm not sure how to deal with a broodlord, 2x20 genestealers and a flying hive tyrant in melee in turn 1. (and a lictor with pheromone trail, but that one isn't that much of an issue on his own)

No played against nids but I like to use cheap units of Nurglings to limit enemies deepstriking too close to my main army. Nurglings are pretty tough against certain kind of shooting but nids will destroy them with assault and get first blood but thats better than them getting on the main army.
Since nurglings can deploy anywhere that is not the enemy deployment zone, they are great for limiting deep strike places for any enemy.
I like to use atleast 2-3 units of 3 nurglings to do this.

So I recently started DG and I've been brainstorming matchups, I know PBC is highly rated but it seems like its damage output will drop a lot when facing any armies with -1 to hit bonuses or fliers, and I have a hard time figuring out how DG can handle a fast eldar list with army-wide -1 to hit which can control the board in relative safety. Do we have any good strategy to dealing with these kind of opponents without fetching some CSM units?

I'm having trouble seeing why the Plagueburst Crawler is highly regarded, compared to a Leman Russ which everyone said sucked. Their toughness is great, they never die. But in every game I've used them in, the 4+ to hit causes them to do next to nothing. The mortar suffers from the same issue as the old Leman Russes, it kills just 1 or 2 dudes if it's lucky. And the entropy cannons would be good except, again, hitting on 4+ then d6 dmg means it struggles to do much when it does hit.
Am I missing something? The Leman Russ is now a lot better in my eyes, since it's been upgraded to shoot 2d6 shots with its main gun, but before then most regarded them as garbage. So how come people say the PBC is really good? I don't think people wrong, I just don't know how to use them well enough to be effective. Can anyone give me some pointers?