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Problem with BLT is that any effective Termy hunting multi Damage weapons, cut through them just as easy. Any BLTs that ive seen (or ive fielded myself) die the next turn theyve been dropped.

I love seeing Terminators in somebodies list. Theyre either slow with TH/SS, or just expensive suicide drops.

In the Adepticon team tournament my team's first game was against a Death Guard team. On my table, our opponents were rocking 3 squads of Blightlords. Let me tell you, the suckers just wouldn't die. We won the game, but I don't think we killed any whole units of those termies. I'm sold on them, especially with good combi-weapons (plasma is good thanks to the 18" rapid fire from Inexorable Advance).

I feel like blights are good for casual play but what do you do against dark reaps that literally one shot your terms? Even putting miasma on them doesn't mean squat. as reaps autohit on 3's always. And for managing target priority terms aren't exactly the cheapest option.... and they don't' see to have enough clear to get through the chaff armies... I love the models though so I'm gonna keep playing em for a bit and see if my luck changes.

I use termies in my competitive lists almost always. Especially when I make troop only lists!!!

@all:

This debate with terminators comes up from time to time, and while Blightlords are the best Terminators IMO, they are still just that; terminators. Here are some issues I've found with them:

1. They're expensive - you need to include the points for units that support the BLT's, such as a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor (because DG ones can't have jump packs...) or Sorcerers.
2. WS/BS 3 hurts them remaining autonomous - Same with point 1, BS/WS3 on such expensive models really hurts them. So they need a Sorcerer w/ Prescience or a Lord to really negate this weakness.
3. THEY ARE SLOOOOWWWW - soooo slow. 4" move really sucks. A lot of things can play keep away with them.
4. Low number of attacks - 5 models gets a total of 11 attacks, which for a melee-centric unit is hot garbage. The flail is amazing, but when a unit of Assault Marines gets more attacks... this is where WS3 really hurts. I had one unit of BLT's tied up in combat with a SINGLE Carnifex for a whole game, and was left with the flail.
5. Their weapon selection leaves a lot to be desired - the flail is great, and plasma is great.... but even if you give them Axes and with Blades, they still wound most big stuff on a 4+ due to T7 being pretty prevalent on bigger stuff, like big tyranid bugs. I'd love to be able to at least give the Champ a power fist....

 Zid wrote:
@all:

This debate with terminators comes up from time to time, and while Blightlords are the best Terminators IMO, they are still just that; terminators. Here are some issues I've found with them:

1. They're expensive - you need to include the points for units that support the BLT's, such as a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor (because DG ones can't have jump packs...) or Sorcerers.
2. WS/BS 3 hurts them remaining autonomous - Same with point 1, BS/WS3 on such expensive models really hurts them. So they need a Sorcerer w/ Prescience or a Lord to really negate this weakness.
3. THEY ARE SLOOOOWWWW - soooo slow. 4" move really sucks. A lot of things can play keep away with them.
4. Low number of attacks - 5 models gets a total of 11 attacks, which for a melee-centric unit is hot garbage. The flail is amazing, but when a unit of Assault Marines gets more attacks... this is where WS3 really hurts. I had one unit of BLT's tied up in combat with a SINGLE Carnifex for a whole game, and was left with the flail.
5. Their weapon selection leaves a lot to be desired - the flail is great, and plasma is great.... but even if you give them Axes and with Blades, they still wound most big stuff on a 4+ due to T7 being pretty prevalent on bigger stuff, like big tyranid bugs. I'd love to be able to at least give the Champ a power fist....

4 and 5 are my main problems with them, while I love the hell out of them and run them often, they do have weaknesses. I have fun dropping them in the backfield, but then opponents have just run away! With the damage, they are moderate. Amazing at killing marines, absolutely bonkers at it, but then they fall short. That is where Deathshroud come in, they have absolutely awesome damage. Basically power fists without -1 to hit and reroll wounds. Unfortunately they are also super slow. If Deathshroud could take scythes, or power fists, or anything with more oomph. The points drop on deathshroud is really nice, and only 20pt more than blightlords with the standard loadout. But at the end of the day, they are still SUPER SLOW, and don't have the footprint to force your enemy to deal with them, like a horde of plaguebearers do.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 Zid wrote:
@all:

This debate with terminators comes up from time to time, and while Blightlords are the best Terminators IMO, they are still just that; terminators. Here are some issues I've found with them:

1. They're expensive - you need to include the points for units that support the BLT's, such as a Chaos Lord in Terminator armor (because DG ones can't have jump packs...) or Sorcerers.
2. WS/BS 3 hurts them remaining autonomous - Same with point 1, BS/WS3 on such expensive models really hurts them. So they need a Sorcerer w/ Prescience or a Lord to really negate this weakness.
3. THEY ARE SLOOOOWWWW - soooo slow. 4" move really sucks. A lot of things can play keep away with them.
4. Low number of attacks - 5 models gets a total of 11 attacks, which for a melee-centric unit is hot garbage. The flail is amazing, but when a unit of Assault Marines gets more attacks... this is where WS3 really hurts. I had one unit of BLT's tied up in combat with a SINGLE Carnifex for a whole game, and was left with the flail.
5. Their weapon selection leaves a lot to be desired - the flail is great, and plasma is great.... but even if you give them Axes and with Blades, they still wound most big stuff on a 4+ due to T7 being pretty prevalent on bigger stuff, like big tyranid bugs. I'd love to be able to at least give the Champ a power fist....

4 and 5 are my main problems with them, while I love the hell out of them and run them often, they do have weaknesses. I have fun dropping them in the backfield, but then opponents have just run away! With the damage, they are moderate. Amazing at killing marines, absolutely bonkers at it, but then they fall short. That is where Deathshroud come in, they have absolutely awesome damage. Basically power fists without -1 to hit and reroll wounds. Unfortunately they are also super slow. If Deathshroud could take scythes, or power fists, or anything with more oomph. The points drop on deathshroud is really nice, and only 20pt more than blightlords with the standard loadout. But at the end of the day, they are still SUPER SLOW, and don't have the footprint to force your enemy to deal with them, like a horde of plaguebearers do.

Bingo. All games i have used them they kill smaller stuff, marines, hordes of boyz, just fine.

When you target them at bigger stuff youd expect terminators to go after.... they fall flat. I hit a tyrant with death hex, and vitalitied/bladed blight lords charged it. After getting into cc, i did a total of 5 wounds after saves (including mortal wounds), including mortal wounds. The tyrant then flew away to pewpew with his devourers; this was two sorcerers supporting them to even make that happen.

Outsider perspective but I hate facing Blightlords. They are survivable as hell, only really outshone by a PBC in that regard. They have an 18” threat radius with double tapping plasma. They disrupt my deployment plans merely by existing. When they finally drop they take the combined shooting and CC ability of the majority of my army to deal with if I want them gone, and I do want them gone because half the time they DS onto an objective. If you DS them near a flying DP then it’s even worse because they freely overcharge and protect the DP from being targeted. Last time I tried to get rid of them it took 2 devastators squads and then 3 rounds of CC with Sanguinary Guard. The game before that it required the same Dev squads and 3 CP on a thunder hammer captain.

Bremon wrote:
Outsider perspective but I hate facing Blightlords. They are survivable as hell, only really outshone by a PBC in that regard. They have an 18” threat radius with double tapping plasma. They disrupt my deployment plans merely by existing. When they finally drop they take the combined shooting and CC ability of the majority of my army to deal with if I want them gone, and I do want them gone because half the time they DS onto an objective. If you DS them near a flying DP then it’s even worse because they freely overcharge and protect the DP from being targeted. Last time I tried to get rid of them it took 2 devastators squads and then 3 rounds of CC with Sanguinary Guard. The game before that it required the same Dev squads and 3 CP on a thunder hammer captain.

They can definitely distract, but their damage output is pretty subpar. I'd rather have a Demon Prince over them; hes cheaper, provides psychic powers and defense, has the same amount of wounds, higher str/toughness, and can fly. Blightlords doubletapping 10 plasma shots can be OK, but without assistance, it turns pretty meh. And they aren't as disposable as something like Scions.

I guess my point is, much like anything else in the game, when you compare what they do to other options, they just don't compare as strongly. If they had better CC options, BS/WS 2, or even 1 more attack or wound, they would be a lot stronger overall. I never lost a unit in any game I took them, but for how much of my list that was used to support them I greatly regretted them.

This is where I am coming from too, and honestly you can't run them in bulk with overcharge plasma - they will fry even with rerolls to 1's for a fairly expensive unit - 10 BL with overcharge plasma double tapping is going to be 20 rolls - 1/6 are 1's - lets say 3-4 and then you roll those - there is a fair shot you may get a few more 1's and it is an expensive unit to lose. I feel like you would have to use the standard plasma profile and not the OC (situational of course - if you the opportunity to down a primarch you will probably OC - but to make it very situational neuters also the damage out / threat range of this unit - are you going to OC to kill a PBC or something?

Horses for courses, and all that. I can much more easily dispatch of a Daemon Prince before he has an effect on the game than a tough nut that can deep strike. Obliterators are better, of course, but if you aren’t playing soup, Blightlords can have a fairly notable presence in, and effect on, a game.

Bremon wrote:
Horses for courses, and all that. I can much more easily dispatch of a Daemon Prince before he has an effect on the game than a tough nut that can deep strike. Obliterators are better, of course, but if you aren’t playing soup, Blightlords can have a fairly notable presence in, and effect on, a game.

Just depends on what you run. Demon Prince is a force multiplier (reroll 1's, psychic power) on top of being strong himself. If your not able to take out 10 wounds of 2+/4++ T5 models with DR, but can take out a 10 wound 2+/5++ T6 model with DR.... not sure what to tell you; they more or less have the same toughness on paper. The only exception is that anything over 2 wounds can be wasted on the terminators. I will say I bought them and used them in 4 of my first 6 games, and as a new player, maybe I was misusing them; or maybe, like many have said, they are completely underwhelming. I will say I noticed a HUGE uptick in my armies power swapping them out for 2 demon princes and changing the sorcerer's out for more of other stuff.

Your point is well taken, but I play BA, so anything I want to touch them both with is wounding on 2+ in melee, and my heavy weapons are unlikely to be hitting the DP at all. The 4++ puts in work, and I’m far more likely to overkill individual Blightlords vs the DP where there will be no wasted damage.

The reroll aura and cast/deny abilities of the DP are a great strength though.

The tactical value of deep striking 18-20 plasma shots 18" does not compare. With sorc and precience it becomes overcharged with a chaos Lord or more likely a dp they reroll also 1s and dp around to protect them. They serve as enemy heavy pointer killer. And they can be immune to damage as death guard and good melee if need be + dp. Not to mention buffs from pshych and gems. I use 8-9 one group for tour list .

P.s Dp would need to fly over all enemy line to hit a camping arty. I prefer to use my do fly as buffer protector secondly as fly able killer and lastly as sacrificed cow! I play horde lists I got nough expendable bodies!

I w8 pbc to get a nerf before I spend money on a list not doing better than mine just because a tank needs point abjust. But it's easier for most to play 8 tanks 3 dp.

 Yoda79 wrote:
The tactical value of deep striking 18-20 plasma shots 18" does not compare. With sorc and precience it becomes overcharged with a chaos Lord or more likely a dp they reroll also 1s and dp around to protect them. They serve as enemy heavy pointer killer. And they can be immune to damage as death guard and good melee if need be + dp. Not to mention buffs from pshych and gems. I use 8-9 one group for tour list .

P.s Dp would need to fly over all enemy line to hit a camping arty. I prefer to use my do fly as buffer protector secondly as fly able killer and lastly as sacrificed cow! I play horde lists I got nough expendable bodies!

I w8 pbc to get a nerf before I spend money on a list not doing better than mine just because a tank needs point abjust. But it's easier for most to play 8 tanks 3 dp.

The tactical value isn't understated; Blightlords are good.

Its just... so much more is better. You can take a full 30 Plaguebearers with all the bells if you wanted, for the same cost, and they would be harder to kill, and probably do as much damage in certain scenarios (more if you give them buffs, Scrivener, and a poxbringer), they would deep strike in and annoy. Yes, plasmacide has its place, but why do that when you can take Obliterators who are cheaper and do more damage?

The issue is that what the Blightlords objectively are good at, many units do better, for less points. I don't spam PBC's, but even if they get boosted to even the cost of a Bloat Drone w/ spitters (158 pts) I would STILL take a few because they're amazing, and nothing else can quite do what they do in Death Guard/Nurgle/Chaos (I guess if you wanted to do renegades sure).

I'm not saying you can't take them and have fun. From a competitive standpoint, I'd rather take a lot of other stuff to fill their shoes. However, on occassion, I'll bust 'em out to have a great narrative or fluffy game with a bunch of Plague Marines for fun. Terminators in general are in a bad place, even though they are by far my favorite models to play with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bremon wrote:
Your point is well taken, but I play BA, so anything I want to touch them both with is wounding on 2+ in melee, and my heavy weapons are unlikely to be hitting the DP at all. The 4++ puts in work, and I’m far more likely to overkill individual Blightlords vs the DP where there will be no wasted damage.

The reroll aura and cast/deny abilities of the DP are a great strength though.

Right, so in your specific case its more annoying. But looking at a list building standpoint, I can't justify blightlords say... against Tyranids. They just don't cut it. So I look at options that can be viable no matter what I face; I get there will always be a "rock, paper, scissors" argument to be had, but you try and negate that as much as possible in list building. If Blightlords could operate by themselves with no support AND still be able to do a lot of work, you'd see them more often. I actually would rock some Deathshroud if they were more durable or slightly cheaper; their damage output is insane, while being as tough as blightlords for slightly more.

No. Obliterators are not better than plasma.

A) obliterators team up with deamons and competitive wise need to play them in a triple soup demons csm and death guard

B) can end up with one mediocre shooting and die.

C) can only take 3 in a unit so buffs tree / hq aura/ and most important stratagem ony in one unit

D) if I am to take a heavy deamon list with trees buffers etc my list goes for 6-8 pbc and do. Again no need obliterators.
E) in a heavy troop list competitive you LL need slanesh black legion troops. Obliterators need alhpa legion to survive
F) blight lord terminators are death guard and astartes taking up all buffs all stratagems making than death immune.
G) terminators will play cc equally while obliterators are done in cc.

So stating just the above and not to say more about playstyle and lists specifics co-op with cultists and poxalkers bla bla bla I definitely prefer blightlord terminators any day any game competitive wise and that's why they cost more. Especially as anti tank in my horde list are the best possible choise and have never failed me so far. Csm +deathguard list only.

If now I mix demons as well again the combination with demons etc works best with pbc not obliterators. Tree guy etc. Yes you might have a good chance with bell guo obliterators etc but it's scaling in extreme point invest. I play 3 strategies in my lists if not more and only with troops. I don't want to have to depend on guo with bell to revive I don't have to play plagueberers with 2+ hq strategies nor triple soup lists for one combo and subpar.

Your opinion respected but horde lists won last tours. Just a thought.
And to cut it short I LL not add lists with pbc when know it need nerfing. So far my cheap begginer troop lists wins everything it's fun its cheap to make but yes it's hard to play effectively . Sorry it's not moving 8 flamers around dbut when you master it so far seems unbetable with blightlord terminators yes!!

Completely different topic. I just got a Mastodon in, I'm trying to think of some fun things to throw in it. Obviously I wont be running this in tournaments, as objective grabbing when half your list is one model is very difficult.

I'm thinking a blob of 20 marines, 10 cultists (because it eats people) and some supporting characters will be the first run. Either MSU marines for flail/special weapon spam, or a block of 20 CCW marines for grenade/CC punchy fun.

Next is the current topic of terminators. Obviously they can deep strike, so it isn't really needed to get them in the mastodon, but this could get them in double tap melta range, deathshroud into flamer range, and just change up the style of play.

Lastly is 2 hellbrutes or decimators, to take up 20 slots, and then... I dunno, some chaffe for overwatch in cultists, and a few deathshroud.

I own 9 deathshroud and 15 blightlords, and while they are not the most competitive, they are fun. and fun is why I bought the mastodon.

I ran 20 marines, 2 flails, fist, and 14 axe/sword and a fistfull of characters. 2 psykers to give them all the buffs, 1 was warlord for re-roll plague weapons (wow, that trait is super awesome!) Tallyman for cc re-rolls, grenade dude, and foul blightspawn.

I was able to convince another player that it might be fun to fight a Mastodon. He played Custodes. Due to my poor positioning of the mastodon, and his army basically being half characters, I was only able to target 2 units with the grenade strat. so.. like 5 models. However I hurled 30 grenades at one unit, and 56 at the other. I think that is my new favorite thing in the game.

The real hilarity was the 20 plague marines re-rolling all hits and wounds, and mortal wounds on 5s. I think the initial charge CC threw out about 15 mortal wounds across all his units. Super awesome. I'm going to see about modifying my rhino rush list to have a unit of CC plagues in it.

With the new FAQ I think deathshroud are super useless now since you cannot deep strike on turn 1. If you deploy them behind mortarion you are severely gimping your movement with mortarion, and you want him locked in combat.

But we can put a plague spewer on the Daemon prince now - wherever that came from ;-)

Also, Poxwalker spam got hit in Matched Play. You now have to pay reinforcement points for any Poxwalkers over the initial maximum unit size.

Dunno how big a nerf that is, but it's there.

I guess a lot more people like to play with beta rules than I expected.

Daemon prince is a tough call for me. 2 extra attacks vs a heavy flamer... Heavy flamers are pretty awesome, give the DP some overwatch to help, and because it can fly it would help with positioning to fall back from say, a rhino, then move over near a character and light it up.

buuut 2 attacks with malefic talons is pretty swell too, plus like 9pt cheaper.

Poxwalkers are obliviated.
I don’t know where this came from, haven’t seen poxfarms at the summit of the major tournaments.

Now, apart from just painting dozens of spare poxwalkers, i need not only to spend 2CP per turn, but also pay 6pts for each, aside from cheap proc source (cultists, horrors, etc).
I prefer using pink horrors with split as a reliable buffer for both clod of flies shield and curse of walking pox source.
Not full 30-man horror squad recycled to poxwalkers upped from 690 Points (of which 480 are reinforcement) to 1590 (of which 1380 are reinforcement points).

I really loved my horde of zombies, but their utility severely dropped. And only 6 month ago they ruled out 180 degrees . Sad.

 Fan67 wrote:
Poxwalkers are obliviated.
I don’t know where this came from, haven’t seen poxfarms at the summit of the major tournaments.

Now, apart from just painting dozens of spare poxwalkers, i need not only to spend 2CP per turn, but also pay 6pts for each, aside from cheap proc source (cultists, horrors, etc).
I prefer using pink horrors with split as a reliable buffer for both clod of flies shield and curse of walking pox source.
Not full 30-man horror squad recycled to poxwalkers upped from 690 Points (of which 480 are reinforcement) to 1590 (of which 1380 are reinforcement points).

I really loved my horde of zombies, but their utility severely dropped. And only 6 month ago they ruled out 180 degrees . Sad.

Are pox walkers also hit by the new rule that you can only ignore a wound once? Or is the FnP buff a re-roll?

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:

 Fan67 wrote:
Poxwalkers are obliviated.
I don’t know where this came from, haven’t seen poxfarms at the summit of the major tournaments.

Now, apart from just painting dozens of spare poxwalkers, i need not only to spend 2CP per turn, but also pay 6pts for each, aside from cheap proc source (cultists, horrors, etc).
I prefer using pink horrors with split as a reliable buffer for both clod of flies shield and curse of walking pox source.
Not full 30-man horror squad recycled to poxwalkers upped from 690 Points (of which 480 are reinforcement) to 1590 (of which 1380 are reinforcement points).

I really loved my horde of zombies, but their utility severely dropped. And only 6 month ago they ruled out 180 degrees . Sad.

Are pox walkers also hit by the new rule that you can only ignore a wound once? Or is the FnP buff a re-roll?

I don't see how poxes are affected by the FnP - you use DG on the poxes and are allowed to reroll a 1 if by a surgeon etc. You just can't stack multiple renditions of FnP which I am fairly certain poxes can't in anyway in the game right now...

Agree poxes are now obliterated. Although they were one of the ONLY units in the game (outside of chaos boon and some shenanigins) that allow you to reinforce for free. This allows parity, maybe there will be another use for the untargetable strat (such as blight-lord terms, etc.) where it can still be useful. The pox ability just went from a must/autoinclude to a "situational" use.

While I love me some DG and also enjoy poxing it up - you have to admit - playing against it is annoying / frustrating as hell and very one dimensional (kill poxes turn 1 before strat goes off or almost impossible to win). I think everyone can be as annoyed as they like and of course there is likely a better way to nerf them (as opposed to out of contention completely) but sometimes balance is a bitter pill (this is better than every chaos player from here to infinity using infinite pox blobs with 20 CP).

Alright so what are our best builds now? The three datasheets things puts our tank spam off the table and poxwalkers got hit hard. Our terminators also didn't come out looking great.

Well, what I like about the Pox Walker nerfing is: I don't need to bring a bunch of extra Pox Walkers with me anymore!

With the new Rule of 3, all the guys who went out and bought a bunch of Plagueburst Crawlers are going to be pretty salty! Maybe the secondary market will be flooded with them for cheap, though.

We can still take 3 pbc,3 hellbrutes, 3 preds and 9 mbh thats still a lot of spam

And as many termites as you have other units lol