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eohall wrote: It is clear - the model comes default with a sword and talon - it then may either TAKE a spewer or it may REPLACE. "Take" is ambiguous (regarding wether or not it means "in addition to" or "instead of"), until the word "replace" is used, which makes the meaning clear.
Ok so you are saying I can take a spewer, a sword and a talon? Or for example two talons and a spewer?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/21 01:59:12
eohall wrote: It is clear - the model comes default with a sword and talon - it then may either TAKE a spewer or it may REPLACE. "Take" is ambiguous (regarding wether or not it means "in addition to" or "instead of"), until the word "replace" is used, which makes the meaning clear.
This is how it works.
Possible configurations are:
Talon, Sword (0,10) - Base
Talon, Sword, Plague Spewer (0, 10, 19) - take plague spewer
Talon, Axe (0, 10) - replace sword with axe
Talon, Talon (0, 10) - replace sword with second set of talons
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
I'm wondering if 10x pox walkers is worth the trouble now. If they can't grow above 10, is there really a reason to use them over cultists?
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Jidmah wrote: I'm wondering if 10x pox walkers is worth the trouble now. If they can't grow above 10, is there really a reason to use them over cultists?
I guess you'd pay the points for the lack of morale and the 5+ fnp.
Jidmah wrote: I'm wondering if 10x pox walkers is worth the trouble now. If they can't grow above 10, is there really a reason to use them over cultists?
I would say no, because they aren't much more survivable in a small group than Cultists, plus a 10 man squad won't hit very hard if they do get somewhere. If someone wants them dead, they will die.
I feel like 20 man squads will be standard now. It takes more focus to take them down, and if even a few survive to hit a chaff unit, or something squishy, they will quickly swell back up. I will be testing 3 squads in my new competitive lists; 2 15 man, and 1 20 man. One 15 man will get Cloud of Flies and act as the "bullet sponge" with Vitality and Typhus buffs, with a second wave being Miasma'd Plaguebearers. Poxwalkers I feel are still really strong, 120 points for 20 models that can come back from the dead is still really damn good. Especially because they are fearless, so even if they act to tie something up til your bigger stuff can get there, its worth it.
Cultists, on the other hand, are cheaper and get to pew-pew. But I don't see their use in DG for two reasons: 1) no way to give them fearless for big blobs, 2) need CSM anyway for Tide of Traitors, so why not just take CSM Slaneesh Cultists?, 3) min units are good to fill a battalion, but their tactical use is limited at best.
I can't help but feel with the recent change to the growing of poxwalkers, the typical 10 man walker unit with a 40 man cultist detachment for tide and dead walk again, made the poxwalkers a lot weaker. Working on a way to keep the army somewhat fluffy, and still not just get wiped from the table.
Currently thinking something like (points may be slightly off, but they are close enough to prove a concept):
For 1500 fun games
Prince with wings and tallons
Typhus
20,20,15 pox
csm with either dual plasma or dual launcher
foul spawn
blightbringer
detachment with a plague caster and 3 drones, possibly 1 with mower.
Then for 2k I could add Mort for more punch, and boost the 15man pox to 20
Issues I see here is that you won't get that large pox blob, so against gunlines, most of the walkers would be dead before they got to do anything, hence the one drone with mower together with the prince to create some space.
5man CSM moves up behind the pox using cloud, mainly to put some shots down range together with the foul spawn.
Strong emphasis on Mortal Wounds from psychic.
Not sure how else to build really. T5 W1 marines are not doing it. Had another idea of using terminators with a LOC to provide a very strong Turn 2 DS together with the prince.
I'd say no need to worry so much. Reading the faq you can understand clealry there are units better than others. That said. As you grow in competitions you should try and make your lists to include some of the army advantages.
1) 3*plague b crawlers. As arty or frontal offensive this tank rocks. Hard to die and good punch. Get 3 use them learn how to play them effectively.
2) 3 demon Prince. Obvious good can team them up can use all flamers and get them buffed with poxbringer etc. Can be warlord with nice options buffing pbc.
3) a big unit of 20 pox retain their potency. In some degree of backfiles last ditch and staying power unit.
4) transports got an upgrade usage after faq. Fluff wise and grenade wise one rhino with 7+++ and biologus bla bla bla is an option for mortals and a good one.
5) mhitic triplet plague marines with cheap advancing blight launchers are a v v good footsloging fluf image.
6) Dearhshroid and Morty are playable but becomes harder and harder as you grow in competitions
Total:
GEQ: 5.83 dead models
MEQ: 3.32 dead models
Rhino: 5.12 damage
Dual Talon Prince for comparison:
7 attacks -> 6.81 hits
GEQ: 4.54 wounds, 4.54 dead models
MEQ: 4.54 wounds, 3.02 dead models
Rhino: 3.40 wounds, 2.27 unsaved, 4.54 damage
To my surprise, the spewer is actually a pretty good upgrade - it doesn't come for free though.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
It seems like a fairly priced upgrade based off the math presented, so it's gonna be a matter of preference if you want to equip it. Might as well but you're at least not forced into it.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
4) transports got an upgrade usage after faq. Fluff wise and grenade wise one rhino with 7+++ and biologus bla bla bla is an option for mortals and a good one.
What models are considered Nurgle Daemons (if any) in a Death Guard Army. Is it enough for a unit to have the Daemon keyword among its keyword or does it need to be in the faction keywords?
I am thinking of using Epidemius.
Kryddbov wrote: What models are considered Nurgle Daemons (if any) in a Death Guard Army. Is it enough for a unit to have the Daemon keyword among its keyword or does it need to be in the faction keywords?
I am thinking of using Epidemius.
I think its enough that the keywords Daemon and Nurgle are present. Does not matter where the keyword is for epidemius to work his magic on it.
The new faq does not affect this I think.
Kryddbov wrote: What models are considered Nurgle Daemons (if any) in a Death Guard Army. Is it enough for a unit to have the Daemon keyword among its keyword or does it need to be in the faction keywords?
I am thinking of using Epidemius.
I think its enough that the keywords Daemon and Nurgle are present. Does not matter where the keyword is for epidemius to work his magic on it.
The new faq does not affect this I think.
Thanks for your quick answer. So I guess this applies to the Feculent Gnarlmaw aswell?
So I could place Mortarion next to one and have him move, advance and charge in the same turn?
Can we now use the demons in the death guard codex as regular unites so that we are still battle forged . I ask this with the new battle brothers rule has been put into effect?
yes because they share the faction keyword 'Nurgle'
even if they didn't you could still include them as reserve points and summon them in (as most people do anyway) as they wont count as any belonging to any detachment. If you run them on foot in a normal detachment under a 'Nurgle' faction that wont be deathguard so you'd loose any DG benefits, but this has always been the case. But say you have a detachment that has DG units that don't get DG benefits then have at it e.g.
Spearhead <Nurgle>
Great unclean one
PB Crawler x3
Nurglings
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 23:47:49
Some points:
- always double up on bolters on the rhinos
- either have small 3 special weapon squads or go fullout 9-10
- biologus putrifier is a must with a squad of 9 naked (shudder) plague marines for drive by grenade spam
- army needs some chaffe these days (maybe not post faq)
Tactic i normally do is charge the rhinos up fast 12" + d6 and smoke so the enemy is -1 to hit them in their turn.
One massive problem with the style of army is that rhinos are easily popped so you need some threats like preds, defilers etc but even then its a struggle.
Another major issue is the wrap and burn tactic a clever opponent will employ. Basically they'll deep strike or use fast moving stuff to surround a rhino in assault and blow it up in such a way you cannot disembark and the entire unit is slain... you really really have to watch out for this.
What do you target with your PBC's stubbers? When mathhammered they always targets the same thing the mortar and the entropy cannons are shooting, but does that match what you are doing on the table top?
They seem to be much better at shooting infantry than at shooting tanks/monsters, so it feels wrong to waste those four shots on something they are most likely not going to harm.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Latro_ wrote: Thats basically how i have ran mine since 2007.
It works 'ok'
Some points:
- always double up on bolters on the rhinos
- either have small 3 special weapon squads or go fullout 9-10
- biologus putrifier is a must with a squad of 9 naked (shudder) plague marines for drive by grenade spam
- army needs some chaffe these days (maybe not post faq)
Tactic i normally do is charge the rhinos up fast 12" + d6 and smoke so the enemy is -1 to hit them in their turn.
One massive problem with the style of army is that rhinos are easily popped so you need some threats like preds, defilers etc but even then its a struggle.
Another major issue is the wrap and burn tactic a clever opponent will employ. Basically they'll deep strike or use fast moving stuff to surround a rhino in assault and blow it up in such a way you cannot disembark and the entire unit is slain... you really really have to watch out for this.
This is my list if ye interested
[spoiler]Battalion
Malignant Plaguecaster - Garax Blightcaller 110
Corrupted Staff, Bolt Pistol, Blight, Krak
Daemon Prince - Sinpox the Rotbringer 180
Wings, Malefic Claws, Daemonic Axe, WL: Revoltingly Resilent
Supprating Plate
Thank you! This is really helpful!
I don't own a predator or defiler, so I'll run 3 PBC. I don't own plaguebearers or mr.Spoilpox either, but i have a ton of cultists and poxwalkers.
This leaves me 280 points to play with, have you tried a big blob of footslogging PM's with bolters to benefit more from the grenade strat? potentially using the "only target this unit if its the closest unit" stratagem.
I also have 3 foatid bloat drones i can fit into the list.
My poxwalker farm list is nerfed into oblivion.
I am trying to conceive the new list based on the immortality the cloud of flies stratagem provides.
Due to the newly FAQed restriction we cannot use the cloud of flies on the squads same turn they arrive from reserves.
there are currently two candidates for immortality:
-Blightlord Terminators (plasma with Terminator Lord to support)
-Plague Marines (combo with biologus for massive short ranged MW spam)
The source (or the crust) of the immortality now must come in a form of Horrors squad with sufficient (up to 480) reinforcement points and a set of fortifications.
Strangely Blightlords don't occupy more space than an imperial guardsmen, so every fortification with 10 slots and upwards will suffice. Current short lists includes Aquila Strongpoint (which was the centerpiece of my poxwalker farm), Plasma Obliterator (which has adequade firepower to be useful beyond turn 1) and Chaos Bastion (which boasts best survivability for the points invested among fortifications).
The tactics are as follows:
Against shooty opponents you put your terminators in the fortification, then on turn 2 you disembark, advance, activate cloud of flies, surround them with horrors and proceed to move forwards, shooting at 18 inches and soaking damage in the horrors. Chaos Lord provides essential re-rolls of "1" and with Arch-Contaminator assists when terminators finally reach the melee range.
If the deployment has the spearhead you can drop horrors turn 1 and start movement earlier.
The problem is this lists severely suffers from certain long range deployments. And the whole combo costs around 1500 points, providing very humble damage for the investments.
Warptime from allies helps a little, but still this is very-very expensive. Plague marines are move swift, but rely on much more CP to yield damage.
So, any ideas how to implement the "immortal squad" in the new gunline metagame?
Supposedly it works well with the Putrifier, but.... I dunno. Its expensive, clunky, and costs a lot of $$$ if you wanna do all CCW's (or a lot of converting). I'd like to hear if it truly works on the table, but I'm sticking with Pox blobs for my cheap troops that may possibly resurrect themselves
Supposedly it works well with the Putrifier, but.... I dunno. Its expensive, clunky, and costs a lot of $$$ if you wanna do all CCW's (or a lot of converting). I'd like to hear if it truly works on the table, but I'm sticking with Pox blobs for my cheap troops that may possibly resurrect themselves
I guess I'll just have to try it. I think it has some potential with the buffs from arch contaminator, blades of purification, putrescent vitality and the putrifier(wtfGW, find a new word?).
What do you think of this list?
Spoiler:
Double batallion
+ HQ + Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 6. Arch-Contaminator, Daemonic axe, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings
Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts] Malignant Plaguecaster [6 PL, 110pts]
Fan67 wrote: My poxwalker farm list is nerfed into oblivion.
I am trying to conceive the new list based on the immortality the cloud of flies stratagem provides.
Due to the newly FAQed restriction we cannot use the cloud of flies on the squads same turn they arrive from reserves.
there are currently two candidates for immortality:
-Blightlord Terminators (plasma with Terminator Lord to support)
-Plague Marines (combo with biologus for massive short ranged MW spam)
The source (or the crust) of the immortality now must come in a form of Horrors squad with sufficient (up to 480) reinforcement points and a set of fortifications.
Strangely Blightlords don't occupy more space than an imperial guardsmen, so every fortification with 10 slots and upwards will suffice. Current short lists includes Aquila Strongpoint (which was the centerpiece of my poxwalker farm), Plasma Obliterator (which has adequade firepower to be useful beyond turn 1) and Chaos Bastion (which boasts best survivability for the points invested among fortifications).
The tactics are as follows:
Against shooty opponents you put your terminators in the fortification, then on turn 2 you disembark, advance, activate cloud of flies, surround them with horrors and proceed to move forwards, shooting at 18 inches and soaking damage in the horrors. Chaos Lord provides essential re-rolls of "1" and with Arch-Contaminator assists when terminators finally reach the melee range.
If the deployment has the spearhead you can drop horrors turn 1 and start movement earlier.
The problem is this lists severely suffers from certain long range deployments. And the whole combo costs around 1500 points, providing very humble damage for the investments.
Warptime from allies helps a little, but still this is very-very expensive. Plague marines are move swift, but rely on much more CP to yield damage.
So, any ideas how to implement the "immortal squad" in the new gunline metagame?
Fairly certain RAW you cannot use cloud of flies on a unit that was embarked at the beginning of the turn - happy to be wrong though.
Fan67 wrote: My poxwalker farm list is nerfed into oblivion.
I am trying to conceive the new list based on the immortality the cloud of flies stratagem provides.
Due to the newly FAQed restriction we cannot use the cloud of flies on the squads same turn they arrive from reserves.
there are currently two candidates for immortality:
-Blightlord Terminators (plasma with Terminator Lord to support)
-Plague Marines (combo with biologus for massive short ranged MW spam)
The source (or the crust) of the immortality now must come in a form of Horrors squad with sufficient (up to 480) reinforcement points and a set of fortifications.
Strangely Blightlords don't occupy more space than an imperial guardsmen, so every fortification with 10 slots and upwards will suffice. Current short lists includes Aquila Strongpoint (which was the centerpiece of my poxwalker farm), Plasma Obliterator (which has adequade firepower to be useful beyond turn 1) and Chaos Bastion (which boasts best survivability for the points invested among fortifications).
The tactics are as follows:
Against shooty opponents you put your terminators in the fortification, then on turn 2 you disembark, advance, activate cloud of flies, surround them with horrors and proceed to move forwards, shooting at 18 inches and soaking damage in the horrors. Chaos Lord provides essential re-rolls of "1" and with Arch-Contaminator assists when terminators finally reach the melee range.
If the deployment has the spearhead you can drop horrors turn 1 and start movement earlier.
The problem is this lists severely suffers from certain long range deployments. And the whole combo costs around 1500 points, providing very humble damage for the investments.
Warptime from allies helps a little, but still this is very-very expensive. Plague marines are move swift, but rely on much more CP to yield damage.
So, any ideas how to implement the "immortal squad" in the new gunline metagame?
Fairly certain RAW you cannot use cloud of flies on a unit that was embarked at the beginning of the turn - happy to be wrong though.
I think you’re wrong. It says you can use it during the movement phase.
