Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After reading "much" into tyranids including all codex editions,i came to the conclusion that "one" the hive fleets and main being that is the hive mind have managed to "Eat" a Whole Galaxy and is just moving onto the next,or "two" is it running from something even worse behind the "Immense" size of the main being,example being a bunch of star gods repelled them from another galaxy and is following behind it,or a whole other race that has yet to show itself.

Literally no idea.

I think I prefer the 'just eaten another galaxy' thing rather than the 'running away from something worse'. Just because I think it makes the Tyranids seem a more credible threat.

No real evidence either way.

Definitely interesting to consider.

However, I'm more inclined to think its the Galaxy munching more than running from something due to the way the fleets seem to intentionally gravitate themselves towards planets that they have marked with Genestealer infestations.

If they are so Adaptive to overcome their opponents. what need do they have to run, unless what they are running from cannot be adapted against.

Who Knows, the Tyranid organism is a hive mind and until someone cracks the way it thinks (If they don't go insane in the attempt and gibber on about how all they can sense is a deep, unending hunger) We'll have to take it at face value.

Here are my theories, based solely on my speculation and what I think might be cool:

The Tyranids are running from SOMETHING
I like the idea that the Tyranids were puched out of another galaxy, only just stumbling upon our galaxy by chance, and are seeking to establish a new home in a new galaxy. Whether fleeing from a larger threat or exiled from their original home, it adds a bit of mystery to their origins.

The Tyranids are creations of the Old Ones
Still trying to defeat the Necrontyr all these millions of years after the War in Heaven, the Old Ones created the Tyranids to eliminate all life in the galaxy in order to rob the Necrons of any chance of regaining mortal bodies, and forcing them to go back into hibernation for eternity.

The Tyranids are galactic-scale predators
Like a pride of lions stumbling into a savanna full of unsuspecting prey, the Tyranids happened upon a smorgasbord of feeding options. This one makes the Nids less of a motivated antagonist and more akin to a force of nature that the other factions have to deal with on a regular basis.

Personally, I like speculating about it. I prefer when a piece of fiction leaves some questions unanswered, as it gives you a reason to keep coming back to the stories; once all the questions are answered, then you don't need to come back to it.

Good point about the GS Cults, and information we know regarding the Pharos and potential vanguard organisms such as Fenrykan Krakens and Catachan Devils it does suggest that this galaxy was seeded ahead of time with organisms to either soften us up or scope out our suitability as a feeding ground.

That would suggest an organism or culture that's on the hunt, rather than one that's fleeing blindly into the void.

All speculation without intimate knowledge of how the Tyranid mind works, but seems to make sense to me.

Well i think it could equally be the other "running away"
Due to the level of resistance it has faced thus far in our galaxy,"several fleet splinters being massively damaged or nearly destroyed",leading me to believe other galaxy's would also resist or even have beaten back the tyranid race,meaning they are in our galaxy out of starvation! they are animistic after all,and there level of aggression does support the starving animal hypothesis.

As for working out how the hive actually thinks,If it is starving all a astropath would get is ravenous hunger which is what liberians have reported thus far,but as for seeing behind such a mass of psychic feeling and rage,would likely be impossible for anyone but a emperor class being,which is why i'am worried there is something worse coming in the future of the 40k universe.

Hmmm, interesting.

I would agree that other galaxies would likely put up resistance too, although if they're defeated then that would all come to naught as their biomass would be incorporated regardless.

I'm not so certain on the starving animal front. Many animals, especially those with sparse food supplies, often experience sensations of hunger regardless of whether they're full or not. Judging by the Tyranids modus operandi, I'd say it would be beneficial for them to experience a constant, unyielding hunger regardless of whether they're sated or not.

Fits with the 'all we get is a feeling of endless hunger' sensation that psykers get when they approach the hive mind. That would also support the 'on the hunt' hypothesis. If they were running from something, you'd assume that would require a 'fear' emotion, which isn't present in what we've seen so far.

Doesn't mean it's not there, or not possible, but there's more evidence against the 'running' hypothesis than for.

I never really got the impression they were running away from anything. Would they? Do insects run away when they are threatened?

Besides, didn't some of the hive fleets arrive in the galaxy from different directions? I thought the implication was not just that they devoured their own galaxy before coming to this one, but that they may have already devoured several other galaxies. For all we know the rest of the universe may have been mostly devoured by Tyranids already.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Hmmm, interesting.

I would agree that other galaxies would likely put up resistance too, although if they're defeated then that would all come to naught as their biomass would be incorporated regardless.

I'm not so certain on the starving animal front. Many animals, especially those with sparse food supplies, often experience sensations of hunger regardless of whether they're full or not. Judging by the Tyranids modus operandi, I'd say it would be beneficial for them to experience a constant, unyielding hunger regardless of whether they're sated or not.

Fits with the 'all we get is a feeling of endless hunger' sensation that psykers get when they approach the hive mind. That would also support the 'on the hunt' hypothesis. If they were running from something, you'd assume that would require a 'fear' emotion, which isn't present in what we've seen so far.

Doesn't mean it's not there, or not possible, but there's more evidence against the 'running' hypothesis than for.

I'am thinking that fear would be overridden by shear desperation from fleeing a race such as necron star gods,or worse,like a starving lion would even attack a hipo in nature even though it is very likely to die so has overcome said fear already before entering our galaxy.

As for the constant hunger would be a benefit to the tyranid races way of production,i guess that would help,but what if the hive mind actually is after something "else" not the galaxy example the "emperor of man" absorbing terra being its main objective,absorb him the galaxy would be as good as there's,allowing them to actually fight and win against chaos,banish the eldar to trapped webways etc,securing a beachhead to fight whatever is behind them,but that theory would open up even more questions.

Albino Squirrel wrote:
I never really got the impression they were running away from anything. Would they? Do insects run away when they are threatened?

Besides, didn't some of the hive fleets arrive in the galaxy from different directions? I thought the implication was not just that they devoured their own galaxy before coming to this one, but that they may have already devoured several other galaxies. For all we know the rest of the universe may have been mostly devoured by Tyranids already.

They are a hive mind in which case together they possess significantly more intelligence than other races,apart from star god level beings,and so would know to flee a overpowering enemy as such seeking easier pray.

I thought the tyranid life form is ONE big galactic size being like 20 or 30% the size of a galaxy they are just tentacles from this huge sized being,that or is it as you said and separate solar system sized fleets that are acting as one even then it would still be able to hide another race in its "warp shadow" even if i'am wrong and it is not running away,it could "still" unknowingly be hiding another race regardless,which is kinda worrying.

For some reason I seem to remember in the lore, that Tyranids tried to avoid areas with heavy Necron population due to something with the C'Tan messing with the Tyranid hivemand? Maybe the Necrons awoke in a neighboring galaxy and are driving the nids out?

Note, this would have been around 4th edition era....I've really not kept up om 40k lore outisde of the Space Marines :(

 HunterEste wrote:
For some reason I seem to remember in the lore, that Tyranids tried to avoid areas with heavy Necron population due to something with the C'Tan messing with the Tyranid hivemand? Maybe the Necrons awoke in a neighboring galaxy and are driving the nids out?

Note, this would have been around 4th edition era....I've really not kept up om 40k lore outisde of the Space Marines :(

Before the Necron rewrite there was suggestion that the Tyranids Hivemind was actually the C'Tan The Outsider, who left the Galaxy when the Deceiver convinced Nightbringer that the tastiest meals were other C'tan. I thought it worked well as explained why Necron worlds were advoided, and the hunger of the hivefleets.. because the only thing that seemed to be as enternally hungry as the Nids were the C'tan themselves after they were taken in by the Necons

 BunkhouseBuster wrote:
Here are my theories, based solely on my speculation and what I think might be cool:

The Tyranids are running from SOMETHING
I like the idea that the Tyranids were puched out of another galaxy, only just stumbling upon our galaxy by chance, and are seeking to establish a new home in a new galaxy. Whether fleeing from a larger threat or exiled from their original home, it adds a bit of mystery to their origins.

The Tyranids are creations of the Old Ones
Still trying to defeat the Necrontyr all these millions of years after the War in Heaven, the Old Ones created the Tyranids to eliminate all life in the galaxy in order to rob the Necrons of any chance of regaining mortal bodies, and forcing them to go back into hibernation for eternity.

The Tyranids are galactic-scale predators
Like a pride of lions stumbling into a savanna full of unsuspecting prey, the Tyranids happened upon a smorgasbord of feeding options. This one makes the Nids less of a motivated antagonist and more akin to a force of nature that the other factions have to deal with on a regular basis.

Personally, I like speculating about it. I prefer when a piece of fiction leaves some questions unanswered, as it gives you a reason to keep coming back to the stories; once all the questions are answered, then you don't need to come back to it.

I love the idea that the bugs are creations of the Old Ones - a sort of doomsday weapon.

I personally think they are galaxy munching. Would be cool if one or both of the missing primarchs were exiled to another galaxy. Maybe the bugs are running from them and the galaxy they united, maybe the primarch(s) created the bugs to get revenge on the galaxy that exiled them.

Or perhaps during the heresy, some marines blew up a piece of xenos tech that sent out a bit of bright light that was seen by them and drew them here, only to arrive recently due to the massive distances involved, as was said in a semi recent novel.

I don't really ascribe to the "fleeing from a bigger threat" idea, but it's fun to think about.

The Tyranids wouldn't be literally running from something, though, like there isn't *something else* right behind them shooting for the Milky Way. Rather the Tyranids have come here to build up resources: raw biomass and, more importantly, new genetic material. Not just absorbing the native organisms, but also seeding the galaxy so Tyranid life is forced to evolve and adapt in new ways. The Hive Mind itself might only come up with one generic new species to handle, say, a jungle world -- every jungle world -- but several dozen vanguard fleets across as many planets would, by necessity, have to create a great many solutions just to survive. Once the Tyranids make a full, final sweep of the galaxy, they'll have many new weapons to use against whatever it may be that's threatening them.

 HunterEste wrote:
For some reason I seem to remember in the lore, that Tyranids tried to avoid areas with heavy Necron population due to something with the C'Tan messing with the Tyranid hivemand? Maybe the Necrons awoke in a neighboring galaxy and are driving the nids out?

Note, this would have been around 4th edition era....I've really not kept up om 40k lore outisde of the Space Marines :(

There's the Outsider idea, though the simpler explanation is that fighting Necrons offer no benefits -- in fact it's a guarantee loss on the Tyranids end. The Necrons offer no biomass, no new genetics, anything that's eaten will simply teleport right back out (eww), and their Gauss weaponry outright destroys matter so the 'Nids can't even "recycle" their own dead.

There was also the suggestion that one of the places the Hive Fleets were avoiding was a Dyson Sphere -- an entire star system encased within an impossibly vast metal sphere. If I recall the Outsider was hinted at being inside of that, though again it could simply be that the Tyranids just didn't see a point in breaking their teeth on dead metal.

In the epilogue of Pharos, it's implied that after stripping a galaxy, the Tyranids hibernate in the intergalactic void for eons, watching for signs of life in nearby galaxies. E.g. The psychic pulse of the Pharos blowing up.

So by the sounds of it, they're in no hurry.

So, we've got a couple more theories here from the fluff, and we could probably do with another critical look at them based on the other things we know.

1. Tyranids are fleeing from something
Unlikely as to be fleeing from something, psykers would feel at least something else other than hunger when connecting. Not impossible by any means, but there isn't any evidence so far to support it.

2. Tyranids are the Outsider/made by the Outsider
I'd say unlikely, mainly because the Tyranids clearly use and effect the warp. The C'Tan are specifically stated to be unable to comprehend the warp, so them being able to engineer a race with psykers is unlikely.

3. Tyranids are an Old One superweapon
Again unlikely. All Old One creations we know of (Orks, Eldar, Jokeiro, possibly humans) follow a similar body-plan. 2 legs, 2 arms, separate head placed above the torso, two eyes facing forwards and hair. The fact that the Tyranids are so alien biologically suggests that they're not of the same ilk.

4. Tyranids are extra-galactic predators
Seems to be the most likely, given the events in Pharos.

I see so they are not running from something worse,there are "Massive" gaps in what we truly know about the tyranids which soo does not help when attempting to figure them out,and that a psychic lighthouse is what brought the tyranids,which is something i did not know,however have heard of the pharos before,just had no idea it was responsible for bringing the tyranid race to the galaxy,until now that is,damn i got to read or listen to this "Pharos" Novel when i can find a spare 10+ hours that is.

I think the inspiration is a swarm of locusts.

In their normal form they are gentle ground dwelling vegetarians. When population booms, food becomes scarce and they begin to turn on themselves, becoming cannibalistic.

The swarm begins to stampede along the ground; each member fleeing the member behind it and chasing the one in front.

This gives the illusion the swarm is running away from a great predator, whereas in fact it is running from itself!

Eventually the stress of the stampede causes the creatures to metamorphosis; developing functional wings, allowing the swarm to fly from one area of abundant food to another, saving them from consuming themselves.

The hive fleets are just a bunch of space locusts that have found a new food source after destroying their own.

Tristanleo wrote:
If they are so Adaptive to overcome their opponents. what need do they have to run, unless what they are running from cannot be adapted against.

Just cause they adapt doesn't mean they are invincible though.

Unfortunately the HH novels basically confirmed that the nids were just hanging out hibernating until the Pharos did it's big burst thing.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Pharos_(Device)

The Nids are on the hunt, not running. While it was an interesting possibility it's a possibility that has been debunked.

 Rootbeard wrote:
I don't really ascribe to the "fleeing from a bigger threat" idea, but it's fun to think about.

The Tyranids wouldn't be literally running from something, though, like there isn't *something else* right behind them shooting for the Milky Way. Rather the Tyranids have come here to build up resources: raw biomass and, more importantly, new genetic material. Not just absorbing the native organisms, but also seeding the galaxy so Tyranid life is forced to evolve and adapt in new ways. The Hive Mind itself might only come up with one generic new species to handle, say, a jungle world -- every jungle world -- but several dozen vanguard fleets across as many planets would, by necessity, have to create a great many solutions just to survive. Once the Tyranids make a full, final sweep of the galaxy, they'll have many new weapons to use against whatever it may be that's threatening them.

 HunterEste wrote:
For some reason I seem to remember in the lore, that Tyranids tried to avoid areas with heavy Necron population due to something with the C'Tan messing with the Tyranid hivemand? Maybe the Necrons awoke in a neighboring galaxy and are driving the nids out?

Note, this would have been around 4th edition era....I've really not kept up om 40k lore outisde of the Space Marines :(

There's the Outsider idea, though the simpler explanation is that fighting Necrons offer no benefits -- in fact it's a guarantee loss on the Tyranids end. The Necrons offer no biomass, no new genetics, anything that's eaten will simply teleport right back out (eww), and their Gauss weaponry outright destroys matter so the 'Nids can't even "recycle" their own dead.

There was also the suggestion that one of the places the Hive Fleets were avoiding was a Dyson Sphere -- an entire star system encased within an impossibly vast metal sphere. If I recall the Outsider was hinted at being inside of that, though again it could simply be that the Tyranids just didn't see a point in breaking their teeth on dead metal.

The nids can't absorb necrons as they don't have biomass, but their planets might, nids strip planets of everything, including the atmosphere.

A thought I've just had though, metal or at least components of metal are carried inside living tissue, which the tyranids break down and re use. Surely they have some sort of vat that could break down and make use of Necron bodies (if they don't phase out).

 HunterEste wrote:
For some reason I seem to remember in the lore, that Tyranids tried to avoid areas with heavy Necron population due to something with the C'Tan messing with the Tyranid hivemand? Maybe the Necrons awoke in a neighboring galaxy and are driving the nids out?

Note, this would have been around 4th edition era....I've really not kept up om 40k lore outisde of the Space Marines :(

As far as I'm aware this has not been retconned. Apart from the post above mentioning metal being usless to Tyranids (due to phase out, pretty smart btw endlesswaltz) Necron weaponry also removes the biomass of tyranids, making it impossible for 'nids to recycle their broods. Necrons (and deamons) are the natural enemy of 'nids.

As for myself I always thought the caught a glimpse of the Astronomican and where drawn to our galaxy like moths to a flame. For a human psykers it burns all across the galaxy but who knows from how far away the 'nids can percieve it? Their connected counciousness might just be a tad more sensitive then a single human astropath or navigator.

 Nerak wrote:

As for myself I always thought the caught a glimpse of the Astronomican and where drawn to our galaxy like moths to a flame. For a human psykers it burns all across the galaxy but who knows from how far away the 'nids can percieve it? Their connected counciousness might just be a tad more sensitive then a single human astropath or navigator.

Well, you're sort of right with that.

The Pharos device was a massive xenos warp beacon that got triggered during the Horus Heresy. If the Astronomican is a candle, the Pharos was described as a lighthouse. That's what brought the Tyranids to the galaxy.

Now that they're here, they are being drawn by the light of the astronomican like moths to a flame.

That itself brings some interesting suggestions. Are the 'nids doomed either way? Let me explain my thinking. The 'nids hunting strategy appears to be something like this:

Wait in hibernation in the void until a galaxy produces enough sentient lifeforms to create a psychic beacon big enough to draw them here. Then, descend upon the galaxy, consume all life and nutrients then re-enter hibernation in the inter-galactic void.

However, we know that even with the billions upon billions of souls in the galaxy, plus the light of the astronomican, wasn't enough life to draw them to us. It actually took a technological device which essentially mimicked the presence of billions upon billions more life-forms to draw them here. So, the 'nids were basically tricked into thinking there was more life here than there was. They might consume the whole galaxy, and still not have enough energy reserves to last the next hibernation. They'll starve, like a hibernating bear that hasn't glut itself enough during the summer.

Also, it would suggest that the threat of the 'nids is probably on the high end of the estimate numbers-wise. If they've basically evolved to consume galaxies that have a much higher population density than ours, then you'd assume that there are enough 'nids for the job (i.e. far more than they would need to consume our own immature galaxy).

Oh dear...

I suppose the only thing that might stop them is the 40k galaxy has massive levels of militarisation. Because everything's so f*cked up, nearly every man, woman and child in the Imperium is armed to at least militia level. There's an unprecedented level of military deployment as well, and that's just humanity. There are still millennia-old galactic-scale superweapons knocking around (Orks), nigh-unkillable soul-less robots that yield no biomass for the 'nids to consume (Necrons), tricksy future-scrying super-advanced warrior-psykers (Eldar), upstart expansionalist socio-fascists with S5 basic weaponry (Tau) and bonkers fearless zealots who basically live only for warfare and their lovecraftian godlike masters (Chaos).

Perhaps the galaxy of 40k would put up more of a fight than a peaceful galaxy with a much higher population. Perhaps the saving grace of this f*cked up galaxy is the fact that it's so f*cked up...

I like that

honestly the scene from Pharos reminds me of when the reaper fleet reawakens at the end of mass effect 2

So the tyranids are basically screwed then,as that's multiple races that are capable of putting on extreme hurt on the aliens,not to mention the various superweapons that are around in our galaxy,like when the necrons & humans used the magnovitrium to literally Boil the tyranid fleet in space to nothing and that was just "one" c'tan shard that did that! one,and there are hundreds or even thousands of them,the elder have floating planetworld craftworld thingys that also put up a fierce as hell resistance,but ultimately kicking ass also,and then chaos too of which its deamons absolutely hate with uncommon levels of hate for even chaos gods,because they are soulless and slaved ultimately to the hive mind in control,and the fact they strip worlds bare leaving no victims for the chaos gods to play football with and make coats out of.

BrianDavion wrote:
honestly the scene from Pharos reminds me of when the reaper fleet reawakens at the end of mass effect 2

Need to play that game again. Such an awesome series. Definitely ranks just underneath Morrowind/Skyrim on my all-time greatest games.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

3. Tyranids are an Old One superweapon
Again unlikely. All Old One creations we know of (Orks, Eldar, Jokeiro, possibly humans) follow a similar body-plan. 2 legs, 2 arms, separate head placed above the torso, two eyes facing forwards and hair. The fact that the Tyranids are so alien biologically suggests that they're not of the same ilk..

This is false.

Orks are not just two legged orks.
They are a preprogrammed bioweapon that sprouts an entire preprogrammed ecosystem from a few spores of dying orks,
In it are fungoid vegetation like organisms who are the primary producers of bio mass, all sorts of squiggoid creatures that all seem to be useful for orks and the creatures who make use of it all we call orks.

Picture's broken, but you are absolutely right.

Biologically speaking, Orks are probably less similar (or just as dissimilar) to us as Tyranids.

Still, the fact that this utterly, utterly alien life-form (Orks) still has the majority of its life-forms (Orks, Grots and Snotlings) follow the Old-One body-plan while the 'nids follow a completely different 6-limbed bodyplan (which afaik we don't see on any known Old One creations) is a useful pointer in that direction.

Of course, the real reason is that just like Star Trek the vast majority of life in the universe is basically a human with a bit of putty on their face, but it's fun to apply a critical lense from in-universe

endlesswaltz123 wrote:


The nids can't absorb necrons as they don't have biomass, but their planets might, nids strip planets of everything, including the atmosphere.

A thought I've just had though, metal or at least components of metal are carried inside living tissue, which the tyranids break down and re use. Surely they have some sort of vat that could break down and make use of Necron bodies (if they don't phase out).

as has been noted elsewhere, the 'nid fluff stinks. Obviously written by people with no concept of how organisms work or what the universe is made of. Why would Tyrandis eat the atmosphere(mostly nitrogen and oxygen) and not eat the rock (mostly oxygen and silicon)
Why wouldnt they harvest gas clouds in space?
If they can utilize fusion and fission, why cant they make anything they want out of energy?

If 'biomass' means living things, perhaps it makes sense. They eat the entire atmosphere and oceans to get at every living thing on the planet. Churning through trillions of tons material to get at a few million tons of microbes. Perhaps they are unable to make certain amino acids at a suitable rate and need to eat them.

 Exergy wrote:

as has been noted elsewhere, the 'nid fluff stinks. Obviously written by people with no concept of how organisms work or what the universe is made of. Why would Tyrandis eat the atmosphere(mostly nitrogen and oxygen) and not eat the rock (mostly oxygen and silicon)
Why wouldnt they harvest gas clouds in space?
If they can utilize fusion and fission, why cant they make anything they want out of energy?

If 'biomass' means living things, perhaps it makes sense. They eat the entire atmosphere and oceans to get at every living thing on the planet. Churning through trillions of tons material to get at a few million tons of microbes. Perhaps they are unable to make certain amino acids at a suitable rate and need to eat them.

Yeah the more you think about it, the less the whole 'biomass' thing makes any sense.

I personally love the idea that they're sifting through all these organisms' genetic codes for novel and interesting adaptations. The 'nids are entirely about adaptation and competition (often between Hive Fleets) to create the most effective hunting organisms. It'd make sense if their main goal was to seek new and novel genetic structures that they can repurpose. It would also neatly explain how they're able to adapt their own genetic structures so quickly without an apparent 'science department'.

In my headcanon, the whole 'they must be coming here to digest biomass' is just the most widely accepted theory of the 'nids from the eminent minds in the Imperium. The ignorance makes sense if it's coming from an in-universe perspective.